Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

[guille_4]

IMO if they want a young blue-chip prospect and considering he's asked to be traded and the return for George, Butler and Cousins, this trade could make sense in January:

Kyrie Irving and Iman Shumpert for Jeff Teague and Andrew Wiggins + OKC 1st.

Kyrie Irving
Iman Shumpert
Jimmy Butler
Taj Gibson
KAT

I like that team. Plenty of shot-creation with Kyrie, Butler and KAT, and two solid role players who provide above average defense in Taj and Shumpert.

On the other hand:

Jeff Teague
Andrew Wiggins
Lebron James
Kevin Love
Tristan Thompson

Is stil the best team in the East and if Lebron leaves, you stay competitive for another year and then have another 5 years of Andrew Wiggins to rebuild.

Kyrie isn't going to be on the Cavs roster come January. If the Wolves don't want to put Wiggins on the table, they'll watch him get traded elsewhere.

I'd be OK with putting Andrew Wiggins on the table, the problem right now would be the fit with Jeff Teague. Too much money on the PG position and poor fit overall. Had we kept Rubio, I'd be all in for this.

[jbk1234]

IMO if they want a young blue-chip prospect and considering he's asked to be traded and the return for George, Butler and Cousins, this trade could make sense in January:

Kyrie Irving and Iman Shumpert for Jeff Teague and Andrew Wiggins + OKC 1st.

Kyrie Irving
Iman Shumpert
Jimmy Butler
Taj Gibson
KAT

I like that team. Plenty of shot-creation with Kyrie, Butler and KAT, and two solid role players who provide above average defense in Taj and Shumpert.

On the other hand:

Jeff Teague
Andrew Wiggins
Lebron James
Kevin Love
Tristan Thompson

Is stil the best team in the East and if Lebron leaves, you stay competitive for another year and then have another 5 years of Andrew Wiggins to rebuild.

Kyrie isn't going to be on the Cavs roster come January. If the Wolves don't want to put Wiggins on the table, they'll watch him get traded elsewhere.

I'd be OK with putting Andrew Wiggins on the table, the problem right now would be the fit with Jeff Teague. Too much money on the PG position and poor fit overall. Had we kept Rubio, I'd be all in for this.

Knicks haven't signed a PG yet. They've got Courtney Lee sitting there. I think that's the move in January. But the Cavs can't keep Kyrie on the roster until January. That's untenable.

[DubTheVanDamage]

There's no reason for other teams to offer much for Irving. The fact he requested a trade and listed preferences will scare away a lot of suitors. This is a clear signal Iriving could leave potential suitors like Suns in 2 years. An automatic red flag that needs to be taken into account when you make an offer. If the situation is so terrible as some paint it then return could be underwhelming.

It'll scare off some but 2 years is a lot of time and there's a lot of teams in the league lol All it takes is 2 or 3 to drive up the price and they'll damn sure have that

Ie if you're denver, utah, milwaukee, Sacramento, etc, you aint never signing a marquee elite free agent (Paul Milsap is not one) so you might as well take a shot and trade for one now.

Hell if you're the Kings the guy could literally save you from losing your franchise by bringing in fans

Genuinely curious: why do you think Kyrie will get a better return than Butler?

PG is a more valuable position than a wing, but Kyrie is more of a pure scorer than a leader on offense. Given his ball dominance and poor defense, I'm not sure if he'll ever be the best player on a great team -- not to mention it's a lot easier to slot a wing into most teams than a new PG. Kyrie is also younger than Butler -- but they're both UFA in 2 years and Kyrie's ongoing knee issues are scary.

Butler is likely the better player right now and his defense and versatility make him a nice fit on any team.

Unless some GM strongly believes that Kyrie will become a top 5 player in the next 2 years, I don't see why he'd fetch much more than Butler, so wondering why you feel differently.

[Bobalob]

There's no reason for other teams to offer much for Irving. The fact he requested a trade and listed preferences will scare away a lot of suitors. This is a clear signal Iriving could leave potential suitors like Suns in 2 years. An automatic red flag that needs to be taken into account when you make an offer. If the situation is so terrible as some paint it then return could be underwhelming.

It'll scare off some but 2 years is a lot of time and there's a lot of teams in the league lol All it takes is 2 or 3 to drive up the price and they'll damn sure have that

Ie if you're denver, utah, milwaukee, Sacramento, etc, you aint never signing a marquee elite free agent (Paul Milsap is not one) so you might as well take a shot and trade for one now.

Hell if you're the Kings the guy could literally save you from losing your franchise by bringing in fans

Genuinely curious: why do you think Kyrie will get a better return than Butler?

PG is a more valuable position than a wing, but Kyrie is more of a pure scorer than a leader on offense. Given his ball dominance and poor defense, I'm not sure if he'll ever be the best player on a great team -- not to mention it's a lot easier to slot a wing into most teams than a new PG. Kyrie is also younger than Butler -- but they're both UFA in 2 years and Kyrie's ongoing knee issues are scary.

Butler is likely the better player right now and his defense and versatility make him a nice fit on any team.

Unless some GM strongly believes that Kyrie will become a top 5 player in the next 2 years, I don't see why he'd fetch much more than Butler, so wondering why you feel differently.

Very simple. Bc 1) he's younger and 2) contrary to what fans (especially here on realgm) think, there is great value in GETTING BUCKETS. The fact i even have to make a case for Kyrie Irving 12 months after 40 point games in the finals and game series TITLE winning buckets (over a guy who will be a top player of the generation) is comedy in itself.


Let some of you tell it James Harden isnt really that good, teph Curry is overrated, and you'd probably rather have Draymond Green than Krl Anthony Townes.

2-way players, 3&d, blah blah blah bump all that Kyire cant be guarded. Period. You bank on the fact he learned a thing or 2 playing at the highest stage, and that free of Lebron he could blend into a system. Seems to work just fine for Damian Lillard, Russell Westbrook, and all the other shoot first PGs in the league (like where have you all been the last 5 years?! The Steve Nash and J Kidd PG is dead)

[phraoh]

Knicks and Cavs would make perfect trade partners, but if NY will not part with KP, why would the Cavs trade him to NY??? If they would, a deal could easily be struck. I think an offensive pg like Kyrie that can handle the ball like he does, will certainly sell more tickets for NY than KP, and create a lot of interest.

[gino_giode]

There's no reason for other teams to offer much for Irving. The fact he requested a trade and listed preferences will scare away a lot of suitors. This is a clear signal Iriving could leave potential suitors like Suns in 2 years. An automatic red flag that needs to be taken into account when you make an offer. If the situation is so terrible as some paint it then return could be underwhelming.

It'll scare off some but 2 years is a lot of time and there's a lot of teams in the league lol All it takes is 2 or 3 to drive up the price and they'll damn sure have that

Ie if you're denver, utah, milwaukee, Sacramento, etc, you aint never signing a marquee elite free agent (Paul Milsap is not one) so you might as well take a shot and trade for one now.

Hell if you're the Kings the guy could literally save you from losing your franchise by bringing in fans

Genuinely curious: why do you think Kyrie will get a better return than Butler?

PG is a more valuable position than a wing, but Kyrie is more of a pure scorer than a leader on offense. Given his ball dominance and poor defense, I'm not sure if he'll ever be the best player on a great team -- not to mention it's a lot easier to slot a wing into most teams than a new PG. Kyrie is also younger than Butler -- but they're both UFA in 2 years and Kyrie's ongoing knee issues are scary.

Butler is likely the better player right now and his defense and versatility make him a nice fit on any team.

Unless some GM strongly believes that Kyrie will become a top 5 player in the next 2 years, I don't see why he'd fetch much more than Butler, so wondering why you feel differently.

Lemme ask what your opinion of Steph Curry was at age 24-25. Kyrie had a very comparable years to Steph at that age, while increasing his ASS-TOV ratio on a team where he wasn't even the sole distributor. I'm just curious why everybody's so quick to label Kyrie a finished product when he JUST turned 25. Were Steph, Westbrook, Wall, etc finished products and All NBA caliber at that age?

Not saying Kyrie is going to explode like Harden did, but it's foolish to assume he can't improve as a player. For one, we know he's capable of playing good defense, he's just lazy on that side for the most part and his team relies heavily on a system of constant switching. And we know that Lue kind of let off on defensive accountability, which wasn't helped by LeBron also being lazy on defense (his teammates take his lead).

As for injuries, other than breaking his face or knee, Kyrie can put up a respectable 70-80 games when fully healthy. He probably would have played more this past year had Lue rationed out their minutes better. I think it's premature to label Kyrie as injury prone.

Just for comparison
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html

[jbk1234]

There's no reason for other teams to offer much for Irving. The fact he requested a trade and listed preferences will scare away a lot of suitors. This is a clear signal Iriving could leave potential suitors like Suns in 2 years. An automatic red flag that needs to be taken into account when you make an offer. If the situation is as terrible as some paint it then return could be underwhelming. I think Kevin Love was the last all-star who was traded for big return and even then it was all-in type move by Cavs because LeBron was coming back. People thought returns for Boogie, Butler, George were underwhelming and i expect same with Irving.

Supply & demand: How do they work?

Seriously, there are 28 teams in the league. He's under contract for two more years. There aren't 28 star players. Teams that want him can't bank on everyone else low balling the Cavs. How many times has Boston taken the approach you're advocating and missed on a target?

[Bobalob]

There's no reason for other teams to offer much for Irving. The fact he requested a trade and listed preferences will scare away a lot of suitors. This is a clear signal Iriving could leave potential suitors like Suns in 2 years. An automatic red flag that needs to be taken into account when you make an offer. If the situation is as terrible as some paint it then return could be underwhelming. I think Kevin Love was the last all-star who was traded for big return and even then it was all-in type move by Cavs because LeBron was coming back. People thought returns for Boogie, Butler, George were underwhelming and i expect same with Irving.

Supply & demand: How do they work?

Seriously, there are 28 teams in the league. He's under contract for two more years. There aren't 28 star players. Teams that want him can't bank on everyone else low balling the Cavs. How many times has Boston taken the approach you're advocating and missed on a target?

Exactly. Like the Nuggets are in a positon to be sittin back playing coy with Kyrie sittin in front of them. Please

[phraoh]

Without a doubt, Kyrie will get a far better package than Butler or George did. In my mind he is the best and talented overall offensive player in the NBA. Yes, I know there is Curry, Durant, etc., all great players, but I am talking overall offensive players. He can create his own shot better than anyone, he can handle the ball better, he can finish around the basket better, he can stop and drop a jumper in the lane, he can go to the hoop and finish with either hand with very very few blocks of his shot, he can hit running floaters, he can hit the 3's, etc. That is why he is going to get big value. Like someone else said...you need two way players, but you need someone that can create and hit a big shot, no matter where he is shooting from.

[BeatDaCavs420]

"You're getting everything you want," Billups said. "You're getting all the shots you want, you're playing for a great coach, when the game is on the line they're coming to you, you're playing on national TV every week. To me, I don't get it. Everybody has their own desires. Maybe he wants to be Russell Westbrook and go try to win the MVP and get all the shots. That's the only thing sense I can make of it and to me that doesn't make sense."

Kind of messed up of Billups to basically throw Irving under the bus like that....I mean I get people are allowed to speak their mind but sheesh

[jg77]

It'll scare off some but 2 years is a lot of time and there's a lot of teams in the league lol All it takes is 2 or 3 to drive up the price and they'll damn sure have that

Ie if you're denver, utah, milwaukee, Sacramento, etc, you aint never signing a marquee elite free agent (Paul Milsap is not one) so you might as well take a shot and trade for one now.

Hell if you're the Kings the guy could literally save you from losing your franchise by bringing in fans

Genuinely curious: why do you think Kyrie will get a better return than Butler?

PG is a more valuable position than a wing, but Kyrie is more of a pure scorer than a leader on offense. Given his ball dominance and poor defense, I'm not sure if he'll ever be the best player on a great team -- not to mention it's a lot easier to slot a wing into most teams than a new PG. Kyrie is also younger than Butler -- but they're both UFA in 2 years and Kyrie's ongoing knee issues are scary.

Butler is likely the better player right now and his defense and versatility make him a nice fit on any team.

Unless some GM strongly believes that Kyrie will become a top 5 player in the next 2 years, I don't see why he'd fetch much more than Butler, so wondering why you feel differently.

Lemme ask what your opinion of Steph Curry was at age 24-25. Kyrie had a very comparable years to Steph at that age, while increasing his ASS-TOV ratio on a team where he wasn't even the sole distributor. I'm just curious why everybody's so quick to label Kyrie a finished product when he JUST turned 25. Were Steph, Westbrook, Wall, etc finished products and All NBA caliber at that age?

Not saying Kyrie is going to explode like Harden did, but it's foolish to assume he can't improve as a player. For one, we know he's capable of playing good defense, he's just lazy on that side for the most part and his team relies heavily on a system of constant switching. And we know that Lue kind of let off on defensive accountability, which wasn't helped by LeBron also being lazy on defense (his teammates take his lead).

As for injuries, other than breaking his face or knee, Kyrie can put up a respectable 70-80 games when fully healthy. He probably would have played more this past year had Lue rationed out their minutes better. I think it's premature to label Kyrie as injury prone.

Just for comparison
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html

Curry is an out of the world shooter that has pretty much changed the landscape of the NBA. It's hard comparing him to anyone. I think everyone in the NBA wish they could find someone to emulate his game but to be honest I don't think we'll ever see a player like him again. I think Kyrie is really good shooter from three as well but Curry's 41% last year was a down year. Isn't that hard to believe? 41% from three and that's a down year. Curry was probably bogged down by Ellis is first couple years in the league and was also battling ankle injuries.

If Kyrie ends up in Minnesota then I'm not expecting him to breakout, he'd probably stay on course of what he has been doing. If he ends up in NY or PHX then I do expect some type of explosion but I don't think he could ever reach Curry's level of play.

[Bobalob]

"You're getting everything you want," Billups said. "You're getting all the shots you want, you're playing for a great coach, when the game is on the line they're coming to you, you're playing on national TV every week. To me, I don't get it. Everybody has their own desires. Maybe he wants to be Russell Westbrook and go try to win the MVP and get all the shots. That's the only thing sense I can make of it and to me that doesn't make sense."

Kind of messed up of Billups to basically throw Irving under the bus like that....I mean I get people are allowed to speak their mind but sheesh

Aye he aint their GM LOL He woulda said the same if he was an analyst----wait, he is an analyst. *shrug*

[NBAFan93]

"You're getting everything you want," Billups said. "You're getting all the shots you want, you're playing for a great coach, when the game is on the line they're coming to you, you're playing on national TV every week. To me, I don't get it. Everybody has their own desires. Maybe he wants to be Russell Westbrook and go try to win the MVP and get all the shots. That's the only thing sense I can make of it and to me that doesn't make sense."

Kind of messed up of Billups to basically throw Irving under the bus like that....I mean I get people are allowed to speak their mind but sheesh

Yeah - like what the heck? - kind of trashed Westbrook too.

[cavs4life03]

"You're getting everything you want," Billups said. "You're getting all the shots you want, you're playing for a great coach, when the game is on the line they're coming to you, you're playing on national TV every week. To me, I don't get it. Everybody has their own desires. Maybe he wants to be Russell Westbrook and go try to win the MVP and get all the shots. That's the only thing sense I can make of it and to me that doesn't make sense."

Kind of messed up of Billups to basically throw Irving under the bus like that....I mean I get people are allowed to speak their mind but sheesh

makes sense what he said.

Sent from my SM-G955U using RealGM mobile app

[Bobalob]

Genuinely curious: why do you think Kyrie will get a better return than Butler?

PG is a more valuable position than a wing, but Kyrie is more of a pure scorer than a leader on offense. Given his ball dominance and poor defense, I'm not sure if he'll ever be the best player on a great team -- not to mention it's a lot easier to slot a wing into most teams than a new PG. Kyrie is also younger than Butler -- but they're both UFA in 2 years and Kyrie's ongoing knee issues are scary.

Butler is likely the better player right now and his defense and versatility make him a nice fit on any team.

Unless some GM strongly believes that Kyrie will become a top 5 player in the next 2 years, I don't see why he'd fetch much more than Butler, so wondering why you feel differently.

Lemme ask what your opinion of Steph Curry was at age 24-25. Kyrie had a very comparable years to Steph at that age, while increasing his ASS-TOV ratio on a team where he wasn't even the sole distributor. I'm just curious why everybody's so quick to label Kyrie a finished product when he JUST turned 25. Were Steph, Westbrook, Wall, etc finished products and All NBA caliber at that age?

Not saying Kyrie is going to explode like Harden did, but it's foolish to assume he can't improve as a player. For one, we know he's capable of playing good defense, he's just lazy on that side for the most part and his team relies heavily on a system of constant switching. And we know that Lue kind of let off on defensive accountability, which wasn't helped by LeBron also being lazy on defense (his teammates take his lead).

As for injuries, other than breaking his face or knee, Kyrie can put up a respectable 70-80 games when fully healthy. He probably would have played more this past year had Lue rationed out their minutes better. I think it's premature to label Kyrie as injury prone.

Just for comparison
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html

Curry is an out of the world shooter that has pretty much changed the landscape of the NBA. It's hard comparing him to anyone. I think everyone in the NBA wish they could find someone to emulate his game but to be honest I don't think we'll ever see a player like him again. I think Kyrie is really good shooter from three as well but Curry's 41% last year was a down year. Isn't that hard to believe? 41% from three and that's a down year. Curry was probably bogged down by Ellis is first couple years in the league and was also battling ankle injuries.

If Kyrie ends up in Minnesota then I'm not expecting him to breakout, he'd probably stay on course of what he has been doing. If he ends up in NY or PHX then I do expect some type of explosion but I don't think he could ever reach Curry's level of play.

What, win titles? The hell is wrong with some of yall?!?!

[skones]

There's no reason for other teams to offer much for Irving. The fact he requested a trade and listed preferences will scare away a lot of suitors. This is a clear signal Iriving could leave potential suitors like Suns in 2 years. An automatic red flag that needs to be taken into account when you make an offer. If the situation is as terrible as some paint it then return could be underwhelming. I think Kevin Love was the last all-star who was traded for big return and even then it was all-in type move by Cavs because LeBron was coming back. People thought returns for Boogie, Butler, George were underwhelming and i expect same with Irving.

Supply & demand: How do they work?

Seriously, there are 28 teams in the league. He's under contract for two more years. There aren't 28 star players. Teams that want him can't bank on everyone else low balling the Cavs. How many times has Boston taken the approach you're advocating and missed on a target?

I certainly believe they'll get value from someone, but let's not act like Kyrie's value isn't at least somewhat diminished given the noise surrounding this. This is a locker room problem waiting to happen that Cleveland should have no interest in going into the season with.

[CelticsLV]

There's no reason for other teams to offer much for Irving. The fact he requested a trade and listed preferences will scare away a lot of suitors. This is a clear signal Iriving could leave potential suitors like Suns in 2 years. An automatic red flag that needs to be taken into account when you make an offer. If the situation is as terrible as some paint it then return could be underwhelming. I think Kevin Love was the last all-star who was traded for big return and even then it was all-in type move by Cavs because LeBron was coming back. People thought returns for Boogie, Butler, George were underwhelming and i expect same with Irving.

Supply & demand: How do they work?

Seriously, there are 28 teams in the league. He's under contract for two more years. There aren't 28 star players. Teams that want him can't bank on everyone else low balling the Cavs. How many times has Boston taken the approach you're advocating and missed on a target?

Let me ask you again how that supply&demand worked out with Boogie, Butler and George? The reasons you just named are the very same why everyone thought Butler, George and Boogie would get all those ridiculous returns. Both BK picks from Celtics and so on.

[BeatDaCavs420]

"You're getting everything you want," Billups said. "You're getting all the shots you want, you're playing for a great coach, when the game is on the line they're coming to you, you're playing on national TV every week. To me, I don't get it. Everybody has their own desires. Maybe he wants to be Russell Westbrook and go try to win the MVP and get all the shots. That's the only thing sense I can make of it and to me that doesn't make sense."

Kind of messed up of Billups to basically throw Irving under the bus like that....I mean I get people are allowed to speak their mind but sheesh

Yeah - like what the heck? - kind of trashed Westbrook too.

Oh **** I didn't even notice that!

SMH

[jbk1234]

There's no reason for other teams to offer much for Irving. The fact he requested a trade and listed preferences will scare away a lot of suitors. This is a clear signal Iriving could leave potential suitors like Suns in 2 years. An automatic red flag that needs to be taken into account when you make an offer. If the situation is as terrible as some paint it then return could be underwhelming. I think Kevin Love was the last all-star who was traded for big return and even then it was all-in type move by Cavs because LeBron was coming back. People thought returns for Boogie, Butler, George were underwhelming and i expect same with Irving.

Supply & demand: How do they work?

Seriously, there are 28 teams in the league. He's under contract for two more years. There aren't 28 star players. Teams that want him can't bank on everyone else low balling the Cavs. How many times has Boston taken the approach you're advocating and missed on a target?

Let me ask you again how that supply&demand worked out with Boogie, Butler and George? NBA player market isn't as simple as supply and demand The reasons you just named are the very same why everyone thought Butler, George and Boogie will get all those ridiculous returns. Both BK picks from Celtics and so on.

Boogie didn't want to be traded. He wanted that supermax deal in Sac. His agent sabotaged trade discussions by telling teams he wouldn't re-sign. Teams pulled better offers off the table. Setting that aside, Kings took back no bad salary, got a guard just selected in the lottery, and another lottery picks on top of it.

Pritchard pulled out of trades that were better, and that he orally agreed to, in order to send PG out West. PG had one year left and basically refused to promise to re-sign with anyone acquiring him.

Bulls got a lottery pick, a player selected in the lottery the year before, and LeVine, a lottery pick who the Wolves were higher on than Wiggins before the injury.

K. Love returned Wiggins, Bennett, & a future top 10 protected pick for the Heat.

The only one who really got bad value IMO was PG and that was because the Pacers deliberately cut off their nose to spite their face.

[CelticsLV]

There's no reason for other teams to offer much for Irving. The fact he requested a trade and listed preferences will scare away a lot of suitors. This is a clear signal Iriving could leave potential suitors like Suns in 2 years. An automatic red flag that needs to be taken into account when you make an offer. If the situation is as terrible as some paint it then return could be underwhelming. I think Kevin Love was the last all-star who was traded for big return and even then it was all-in type move by Cavs because LeBron was coming back. People thought returns for Boogie, Butler, George were underwhelming and i expect same with Irving.

Supply & demand: How do they work?

Seriously, there are 28 teams in the league. He's under contract for two more years. There aren't 28 star players. Teams that want him can't bank on everyone else low balling the Cavs. How many times has Boston taken the approach you're advocating and missed on a target?

Exactly. Like the Nuggets are in a positon to be sittin back playing coy with Kyrie sittin in front of them. Please

And what exactly will Nuggets lose by not trading everything Cavs want for Irving? They are still young and their potential is not even close to maxed out.