Dame Lillard is Not Here for the Kyrie Comp's

[keynote]

The one edge Kyrie gets from me is in the playoffs he's been flat out dominant. Lillard isn't to be taken lightly, but probably in part due to the western conference, he hasn't been as consistently dominant in the playoffs. Kyrie is basically all star level in the regular season, then goes top 5 player, superstar level a lot of the time in the playoffs.

He's been dominant -- as the second option on a team where the defense has to focus on LeBron. I suspect that he could pull an Isaiah and excel as the #1 option, but like Isaiah, he'd need to be surrounded by a crew of defensive hawks for the team to win games.

[deadfeather]

The one edge Kyrie gets from me is in the playoffs he's been flat out dominant. Lillard isn't to be taken lightly, but probably in part due to the western conference, he hasn't been as consistently dominant in the playoffs. Kyrie is basically all star level in the regular season, then goes top 5 player, superstar level a lot of the time in the playoffs.

Do you have any "alternative" statistics to back your claim that he performs better in the playoffs than Lillard? Or are you judging by what you remember seeing, seeing in some limited highlight reels on ESPN?

Maybe you should check their playoff numbers.

[ItsThatEasy]

Dame's frustation is pretty understandable.

Two years in a row of not making an All-Star team while putting up great stats on a playoff team in the hardest conference while Kyrie gets all these accolades playing next to LeBron in the East.

People are going to use his resume one day when he's retired and there's going to be missing accolades on there simply because he plays in the west.

[DusterBuster]

The one edge Kyrie gets from me is in the playoffs he's been flat out dominant. Lillard isn't to be taken lightly, but probably in part due to the western conference, he hasn't been as consistently dominant in the playoffs. Kyrie is basically all star level in the regular season, then goes top 5 player, superstar level a lot of the time in the playoffs.

Do you have any "alternative" statistics to back your claim that he performs better in the playoffs than Lillard? Or are you judging by what you remember seeing, seeing in some limited highlight reels on ESPN?

Maybe you should check their playoff numbers.

That's kinda a silly comparison. Obviously Kyrie is gonna look more dominate, he's been in the NBA Finals the 3 past years playing next to LeBron. Lillard has had 2 1st round exits and one 2nd round loss over that same time frame by himself. A guy getting to play so many more games and so much deeper into the playoffs is obviously going to have more opportunities and national visibility to show what he can do. If you're just going by the numbers, I'd bet they're pretty close to identical for their postseason stats.

[OkcSinceSGA]

The one edge Kyrie gets from me is in the playoffs he's been flat out dominant. Lillard isn't to be taken lightly, but probably in part due to the western conference, he hasn't been as consistently dominant in the playoffs. Kyrie is basically all star level in the regular season, then goes top 5 player, superstar level a lot of the time in the playoffs.

Do you have any "alternative" statistics to back your claim that he performs better in the playoffs than Lillard? Or are you judging by what you remember seeing, seeing in some limited highlight reels on ESPN?

Maybe you should check their playoff numbers.

Well since you asked so nicely, let's go for it. Because we know things like raw ppg are a thing of the last, and they have similar raw stats (25/5/5 for Lillard rounded up vs 24/5/3 for Kyrie) let's focus on efficiency and metrics.

Damien Lillard playoff metrics: He's been at a negative differential in 3 of 4 playoff runs. His offense has been fine but he's absolutely been CRUSHED on the defensive end to where he's cost the Blazers a bunch of games getting torched. Career shooting of 54% shooting in the playoffs.

2013-2014 playoffs .130 WS/48, 0.7 VORP, PER of 19. ORTG of 118, DRTG of 116.
2014-2015 playoffs .038 WS/48, 0.1 VORP, PER of 15, ORTG of 100, DRTG of 112.
2015-2016 playoffs .118 WS/48, 0.6 VORP, PER of 19.8, ORTG of 110, DRTG of 113.
2016-2017 playoffs .041 WS/48, 0.2 VORP, PER of 18.4, ORTG of 106, DRTG of 118.



Kyrie Irving playoff metrics: Two seasons of massive positive differential in playoffs, one barely positive. Career average of 57.3% TS in the playoffs.

2014-2015 playoffs .209 WS/48, 0.8 VORP, PER of 20.9, ORTG of 120, DRTG of 104.
2015-2016 playoffs .210 WS/48, 1.3 VORP, PER of 24.5, ORTG of 117, DRTG of 107.
2016-2017 playoffs .147 WS/48, 0.5 VORP, PER of 21.3, ORTG 116, DRTG of 115.


Anything else you'd like to know? I already argued Lillard was the better player. But when it comes to the playoffs, Kyrie has clearly been more efficient and stepped up more.

[triple_threat]

I think Dame is better suited to be a #1 and Kyrie is better suited to be a #2. When you consider all factors, I think they are very even. Portland is better off with Dame and Cleveland has been better off with Kyrie.

I've seen this argument a couple of times and I call bs. Kyrie is better than x player as a second option but x player is better than kyrie as a first. Obviously being second option to lebron makes you look better than, frankly, you really are.

[Pelly24]

Honestly I don't blame him. Kyrie is even more one dimensional than Dame. On offense, where they both thrive Dame is also quite a bit better. Basically Kyrie is a poor man's Damien Lillard.

How is Kyrie more one dimensional than Lillard? They average the same amount of assists even though Lillard is the primary facilitator and Kyrie is the secondary on his team. Kyrie has a better FG%, 3pt%, FT%, eFG%, better FG% from every distance on the court. What dimension is Lillard bringing that Kyrie isnt? Both take 26% of their shots at the rim so they both drive the same amount so its not like Lillard is attacking the defense more.

Im not trying to down play Lillard at all, I think the dude is a stud. I just dont see what element he brings that Kyrie doesnt that makes Kyrie more one dimensional.

As a big time Kyrie fan, I think Lillard is probably a bit better. Kyrie has very likely posted his best TS%/USG Rate combo ever (58 TS%/31 USG Rate) and considering the amount of midrange jumpers he takes --he is elite in this regard--he's prob. not increasing it, and I could easily see that TS% figure going down to about 55-56 TS% without LeBron or another superstar. Dame, on the other hand, gets to the freethrow line much more which i think keeps his scoring floor higher, and although I think Kyrie's handle and shiftiness give him a bit more upside as a playmaker, Dame doesn't have the same tunnel vision, and seems to have more of a feel for when and how to take over a game and when to pass, mixing scoring and playmaking very well. I rarely see Kyrie do that. Also, watching them play, i see that Dame appears to be much more responsible for individual wins than Kyrie.

With that said, Dame's 41-41 record is very pedestrian and his defense is as bad as Kyrie's, he just got a decent rim protector at the end of the season. They're similar players, but Dame's proven more at this point.

[Pelly24]

I recall the Blazers being jilted by Aldridge and we didn't get jack in return. Damian lead the team to the playoffs without any other all-stars. Last season, who was the other all-star?

At 26 Lillard just won 41 games with CJ as his #2 averaging 23 ppg on 48/42/91, 58 TS%.
At 21 Kyrie won 33 games with Dion as his #2 averaging 15 ppg on 43/36/68.

The person who took the 3rd most shots for Portland this past year was Crabbe who had shooting numbers of 46/44/84, 60 TS%.
The person who took the 3rd most shots for Cleveland in 2014 was TT who shot 47% from the field and had a 52 TS%. Im not sure what hand he was using to shot back then either.

And then Kyrie never had a guy like Nurkic (even though just for 20 games) who averaged 18/12/4. While yes Lillard hasnt played with another all star the past 2 years, having a #2 who averaged 23 points a game while flirting with a 50/40/90 season and a beast like Nurkic for the last quarter of the season is a hell of a lot more than Kyrie ever had while winning 33 games at 21.

And who, besides Aldridge, has Lillard played with who was an all-star?

Wasn't Varejao a lot like Nurkic? Wasn't Jamison a lot like Aldridge? Andrew Bynum? Luol Deng? seems like Kyrie had some decent teammates.

CJ McCollum averaged 23 ppg on 48/42/90 (or close to it). Dropped 40 on the warriors twice over the last year. He's prob. the second or third best shooter in the league. He's an All Star. Nurkich is a fringe all star, probably an all star in the east this upcoming season.

[Warchant]

I didnt read the all the pages...what is this he referring to?

[Brandon-Clyde]

Stick to realgm please for the Blazers sake

detroit should throw in next year's #1 pick unprotected. do it then? if not you are just a lillard fan. no harm in that but you should disclose it.

That's atrocious, just stop.

He doesn't even get the name of the center correct. He lists Jokic instead of Nurkic. He is either very poorly informed, trolling or both

[cucad8]

I didnt read the all the pages...what is this he referring to?

Tom Haberstroh pointed to Kyrie's record in games without Lebron which is a bad overall record to say he is more like Damian than Kobe. Damian took offense, NOT TO THE COMPARISON OF KYRIE, but everyone seems to miss that because, I dunno, reading comprehension, but took offense to basically being called a loser, or good player on terrible teams, and people off and ran with Kyrie-damian comparisons. Sprinkled in with 4 or 5 that understood what he was annoyed about.

[PerkinsFor3]

Lillard has almost always played with another all star - a luxury Kyrie didn't have until LeBron came back.

I recall the Blazers being jilted by Aldridge and we didn't get jack in return. Damian lead the team to the playoffs without any other all-stars. Last season, who was the other all-star?

At 26 Lillard just won 41 games with CJ as his #2 averaging 23 ppg on 48/42/91, 58 TS%.
At 21 Kyrie won 33 games with Dion as his #2 averaging 15 ppg on 43/36/68.

The person who took the 3rd most shots for Portland this past year was Crabbe who had shooting numbers of 46/44/84, 60 TS%.
The person who took the 3rd most shots for Cleveland in 2014 was TT who shot 47% from the field and had a 52 TS%. Im not sure what hand he was using to shot back then either.

And then Kyrie never had a guy like Nurkic (even though just for 20 games) who averaged 18/12/4. While yes Lillard hasnt played with another all star the past 2 years, having a #2 who averaged 23 points a game while flirting with a 50/40/90 season and a beast like Nurkic for the last quarter of the season is a hell of a lot more than Kyrie ever had while winning 33 games at 21.

Kyrie plays in the east, Dame in the west.
Kyrie has Bron as best player on team, Dame has CJ as second best player on team.
Dame had to play with probably the worst front court rotation in the league, this side of BK, for most of the year. Dame had Nurkic added to the team late 2016-2017. Then led the team to a 14-6 record (.700).

What was Kyrie's record without Bron this year? 4-19 or something?

Above all, you don't throw a name out in a negative way if that name clearly leads his team to the post season in the west every year since his rookie year.

[stilldropin20]

Stick to realgm please for the Blazers sake

detroit should throw in next year's #1 pick unprotected. do it then? if not you are just a lillard fan. no harm in that but you should disclose it.

That's atrocious, just stop.

got it. hmmm. i guess hold out for steph?

[Warchant]

I didnt read the all the pages...what is this he referring to?

Tom Haberstroh pointed to Kyrie's record in games without Lebron which is a bad overall record to say he is more like Damian than Kobe. Damian took offense, NOT TO THE COMPARISON OF KYRIE, but everyone seems to miss that because, I dunno, reading comprehension, but took offense to basically being called a loser, or good player on terrible teams, and people off and ran with Kyrie-damian comparisons. Sprinkled in with 4 or 5 that understood what he was annoyed about.

Thanks

[tribulations]

The NBA is so soft. Players are so sensitive nowadays.

They're really no more sensitive than players of any other era. It's just a totally different media era.

Yeah so sensitive. I didn't see any tweets from Jordan at all.

today's players are just as soft off the floor as they are on it.

truly the era of flopping mental midgets who can shoot threes good

Sent from my SM-G930F using RealGM mobile app

[akhan786]

Wow, okay.

A sports journalist in an effort to disparage Kyrie Irving's past accomplishments lazily uses Damian Lillard as an example of a great player who rarely wins.

Lillard has had one season below a .500 record, his rookie year. He has been in the post season every year after that. He has been past the first round twice, once without LMA. This could very easily be researched by the journalist before making this lazy criticism, but my guess is because Lillard plays for Portland (a small market team with a small fan base) he concluded it was perfectly fine to just make a baseless conjecture.

Lillard takes exception to that and defends his past accomplishments in a tweet response.

Posters here some how digest this as Lillard whining on Twitter that he is being compared to Irving and THAT is the insult.

People this is Twitter not an engineering text book.

Either this board really does have a blind hatred problem with Lillard or the reading comprehension of this board is just simply abysmal.

The General Board is just everyone who is anti-anything posting on any news that comes out so that they can spew their agendas. Anti-Kyrie and Anti-Dame fans pounced when they saw this story to twist it in a negative light.

[Baski]

Im confused, Lillard hasnt made the playoffs every year. His first year Portland missed the playoffs and they went 33-49. I mean Portland didnt even finish OVER 500 this year at 41-41. He also has a horrible record in the playoffs. Kyrie has more playoff victories this past year than Dame has in his entire career. All Kyrie would have to do is tweet a pic of his championship ring and its over.

Wow

[dockingsched]

Crazy that Kyrie is two years younger than Lillard, who is already 27 years old.

[prejt]

Tom Haberstroh is a clown.

yep. he's been destroyed before, but didn't learn nothin'. I actually think Dame is underrated. he and CJ are in the top4 of backcourts, and the blazers were always steady under his hands even before CJ recently came into his own.

[Prestige]

It seems like Tom Haberstroh wrote an article where he put Lillard and Kobe as barometers on opposite sides of being able to lead a team to success. Lillard took offense at being labeled a loser and defended himself. His tweet made it seem like this isn't the first time this author or perhaps his colleagues have written about him in a negative light.

That's it folks. Reading is fundamental.