NBA Expansion

[Cactus Jack]

Key Arena is being renovated & is expected to be ready by 2021.

That's not true and still in the works.
So far all that's happening is Leiweke parading around talking the talk, before he's walked the walk(actually struck an official deal with the city).

Though, I somehow still hope that Hansen's project wins, even though the lame duck major seems hellbent on making that KeyArena refurbish happen, so he can have a big project attached to his name after he leaves office.
Even though it would give us one of the smallest arenas in size and numbers, in a terrible spot(traffic wise) and could easily end up like the last renovation, which lasted about 10 years until the owners cried foul.

You & I both know that Hansen is not going to get approval now. Especially with how the city is hell bent on Seattle Center. The mayor & council are going to fast track Leiweke's plan.

I prefer Sodo myself. But, unless Key falls through & it won't, Sodo's dead. I think Chris knows this. Hopefully, when they do break ground on Key, he'll partner up with Leiweke & co. At the end of the day, what matters is that it gets built & both the NHL and NBA come calling. Enough with the Sodo or bust talk!

[Beethoven]

lAs vEgAs

[13th Man]

+1 more for Montreal. I'm in Ottawa which is only 2 hrs away so would make many trips there to watch games. Vancouver already had their shot, let's give Mtl a shot next!

Montreal is also known for their passionate, lively and knowledgeable crowds. If you thought the Raptors fans were passionate, the Habs fans got them beat by a mile.

[RaptorsLife]

Would people there support basketball?

Yeah I'm sure they would. Raptors had pre season games over the years there and they sold out every time

They only have 1 sports franchise, montreal hates Toronto. So it would definitely be a big rivalry in Canada for ratings here

If it's true there would be support then Montreal would be a no brainer to me.

It would be in the top 10 in metro population if it were in the US.

I don't think St. Louis is a good candidate as someone mentioned. They've lost two football teams in 30 years and don't seem to have a strong corporate base.

I'm not sure if Pittsburgh is a basketball town either but someone else can comment.

So I would do two rounds of expansion, Seattle and Montreal and then Vancouver and someone else.

People think Toronto Raptors are canadas team but it's not true at all. Vancouver lakers and warriors fans mostly and Montreal and eastern Canada you will find tons ound knicks and Boston fans. People just cheer for whatever team closer to them. Toronto being Canada team is a marketing ploy

California got 39 million people and got 4 teams and Canada has 38 million people and 1 team. Definitely Montreal or Vancouver should get a team

[EricAnderson]

How are the pelicans doing in New Orleans?

It's not a basketball town at all..the only reason they have a team is because of Katrina.

There's literally no reason for an NBA team there..it's football country

[EricAnderson]

Why force an expansion to Seattle and another team, when we really need less teams in this league.

Fewer teams.

New Orleans and Memphis are barely viable as things are now so you do have a point. It remains to be seen whether OKC can be viable either if they have a team with a losing record. The other teams are in decent shape though.

Yeah let's get rid of the cities with actual personality and history like Memphis and New Orleans and relocate to big corporate cookie cutter cities like Seattle and Vancouver These cities are nothing but carbon copy cities and would be bad for the league.

That makes no sense.. what does personality of the city have to do with having a NBA team!

New Orleans doesn't give a damn about the team..Seattle had a great fanbase

[monopoman]

I think the two best cities to expand into are:

Seattle
Vegas

Both would be west coast teams and we could move one of the furthest West coast teams into the Eastern conference. I know Vegas would have a lot of potential problems but really denying the city any professional team forever seems odd.

[memgrizzlies000]

To be fair, that's not the fans in Memphis fault. That was the owner that stole the team from Vancouver that did that. You can't blame fans in or around Memphis to cheer for a suddenly new local team.

My issue isn't with the fans. Same goes for fans in OKC. Never has been. My issue is with the poster I was responding to.

I was like 5 when that happened and didn't even know how we got the team. All I knew is we had one now so I was gonna support them.

[QCalloway25]

Let me just say, I can see both sides of the coin when people bring up the dilution of talent. Here's the thing though. I actually think the league is headed into a surplus of talent now and you can get away with it a bit now since one and done guys are known players and brands before they are even drafted. With the rise of Youtube and social media guys like Lonzo Ball, Andrew Wiggins, Zion Williamson, and many others are generating even more interest into younger teams. The league as a whole is becoming younger (and growing globally) and in turn the talent is spreading more. The biggest issue right now is that the Warriors lucked into the cap spiking at the exact time KD was a free agent. Outside of that, things are pretty much the norm for the NBA. Most of the really good teams have 2 stars and role players (which has been the case for the majority of the leagues' history outside of the occasional superteam dynasties).

My point is, we need to look past the Warriors because they aren't gonna be there forever(their not unbeatable now, just really difficult currently but that's another topic). If they weren't where they are now and were "normal" you'd have as many as 8 teams you could make a case for being contenders which is half the playoff field. There are a number of young teams people are interested in seeing because of the hype following young guys LAL, PHI, PHX, SAC, etc. Then there are teams with stars but the talent around them is questionable like NO, MIL, WAS, etc.

Lastly, I hate to say this but, for as much as I like New Orleans it should be obvious by now that it's not going to work there. They may have had a sliver of a chance but 4 things happened that ruined it. The first was losing the Jazz the first time (which showed NO didn't really gravitate towards BBall though it was the 70's). That was huge as that name in general embodies the region and I think fans could've and would've latched onto them as opposed to the Hornets and Pelicans monikers. Second, losing the Jazz left a city devoid of any history for over 20 years. That's a whole generation of fans born and raised in that city with no basketball team, in football country no less. They had no chance to make a inroads into the fabric of the city nor culture thus no one develops a bond with the franchise that arrived later. Third, Hurricane Katrina ended all hope that it could work the 2nd time when the Hornets came to town. They've had fun teams with Baron Davis, CP3, and now AD and not one of them could reel in the city like you'd hope. That storm took so much from that city and they're STILL recovering from it. The ones it affected the most were the same people who would gravitate to the sport the most and while some came back a lot of people didn't, or couldn't. Fourth and final, Tom Benson won't be there to save them this time once they inevitably go up for sale. They are the least valuable franchise with almost no way to improve and the clocks ticking on AD. Once he's gone, this franchise won't be able to stay there as unfortunate as that is.

[Cactus Jack]

Let me just say, I can see both sides of the coin when people bring up the dilution of talent. Here's the thing though. I actually think the league is headed into a surplus of talent now and you can get away with it a bit now since one and done guys are known players and brands before they are even drafted. With the rise of Youtube and social media guys like Lonzo Ball, Andrew Wiggins, Zion Williamson, and many others are generating even more interest into younger teams. The league as a whole is becoming younger (and growing globally) and in turn the talent is spreading more. The biggest issue right now is that the Warriors lucked into the cap spiking at the exact time KD was a free agent. Outside of that, things are pretty much the norm for the NBA. Most of the really good teams have 2 stars and role players (which has been the case for the majority of the leagues' history outside of the occasional superteam dynasties).

My point is, we need to look past the Warriors because they aren't gonna be there forever(their not unbeatable now, just really difficult currently but that's another topic). If they weren't where they are now and were "normal" you'd have as many as 8 teams you could make a case for being contenders which is half the playoff field. There are a number of young teams people are interested in seeing because of the hype following young guys LAL, PHI, PHX, SAC, etc. Then there are teams with stars but the talent around them is questionable like NO, MIL, WAS, etc.

Lastly, I hate to say this but, for as much as I like New Orleans it should be obvious by now that it's not going to work there. They may have had a sliver of a chance but 4 things happened that ruined it. The first was losing the Jazz the first time (which showed NO didn't really gravitate towards BBall though it was the 70's). That was huge as that name in general embodies the region and I think fans could've and would've latched onto them as opposed to the Hornets and Pelicans monikers. Second, losing the Jazz left a city devoid of any history for over 20 years. That's a whole generation of fans born and raised in that city with no basketball team, in football country no less. They had no chance to make a inroads into the fabric of the city nor culture thus no one develops a bond with the franchise that arrived later. Third, Hurricane Katrina ended all hope that it could work the 2nd time when the Hornets came to town. They've had fun teams with Baron Davis, CP3, and now AD and not one of them could reel in the city like you'd hope. That storm took so much from that city and they're STILL recovering from it. The ones it affected the most were the same people who would gravitate to the sport the most and while some came back a lot of people didn't, or couldn't. Fourth and final, Tom Benson won't be there to save them this time once they inevitably go up for sale. They are the least valuable franchise with almost no way to improve and the clocks ticking on AD. Once he's gone, this franchise won't be able to stay there as unfortunate as that is.

I'm not sure the league is willing to take that PR hit. The Sonics are now in OKC partly because the league wouldn't allow the Hornets/Pelicans to stay permanently in OKC after katrina. The league has more than gone out of its way to make sure that the team is successful. Would they ever let it leave? I have my doubts.

[LakerLegend]

Let me just say, I can see both sides of the coin when people bring up the dilution of talent. Here's the thing though. I actually think the league is headed into a surplus of talent now and you can get away with it a bit now since one and done guys are known players and brands before they are even drafted. With the rise of Youtube and social media guys like Lonzo Ball, Andrew Wiggins, Zion Williamson, and many others are generating even more interest into younger teams. The league as a whole is becoming younger (and growing globally) and in turn the talent is spreading more. The biggest issue right now is that the Warriors lucked into the cap spiking at the exact time KD was a free agent. Outside of that, things are pretty much the norm for the NBA. Most of the really good teams have 2 stars and role players (which has been the case for the majority of the leagues' history outside of the occasional superteam dynasties).

My point is, we need to look past the Warriors because they aren't gonna be there forever(their not unbeatable now, just really difficult currently but that's another topic). If they weren't where they are now and were "normal" you'd have as many as 8 teams you could make a case for being contenders which is half the playoff field. There are a number of young teams people are interested in seeing because of the hype following young guys LAL, PHI, PHX, SAC, etc. Then there are teams with stars but the talent around them is questionable like NO, MIL, WAS, etc.

Lastly, I hate to say this but, for as much as I like New Orleans it should be obvious by now that it's not going to work there. They may have had a sliver of a chance but 4 things happened that ruined it. The first was losing the Jazz the first time (which showed NO didn't really gravitate towards BBall though it was the 70's). That was huge as that name in general embodies the region and I think fans could've and would've latched onto them as opposed to the Hornets and Pelicans monikers. Second, losing the Jazz left a city devoid of any history for over 20 years. That's a whole generation of fans born and raised in that city with no basketball team, in football country no less. They had no chance to make a inroads into the fabric of the city nor culture thus no one develops a bond with the franchise that arrived later. Third, Hurricane Katrina ended all hope that it could work the 2nd time when the Hornets came to town. They've had fun teams with Baron Davis, CP3, and now AD and not one of them could reel in the city like you'd hope. That storm took so much from that city and they're STILL recovering from it. The ones it affected the most were the same people who would gravitate to the sport the most and while some came back a lot of people didn't, or couldn't. Fourth and final, Tom Benson won't be there to save them this time once they inevitably go up for sale. They are the least valuable franchise with almost no way to improve and the clocks ticking on AD. Once he's gone, this franchise won't be able to stay there as unfortunate as that is.

I'm not sure the league is willing to take that PR hit. The Sonics are now in OKC partly because the league wouldn't allow the Hornets/Pelicans to stay permanently in OKC after katrina. The league has more than gone out of its way to make sure that the team is successful. Would they ever let it leave? I have my doubts.

Of course they could if the team is financially struggling.

[LofJ]

Let me just say, I can see both sides of the coin when people bring up the dilution of talent. Here's the thing though. I actually think the league is headed into a surplus of talent now and you can get away with it a bit now since one and done guys are known players and brands before they are even drafted. With the rise of Youtube and social media guys like Lonzo Ball, Andrew Wiggins, Zion Williamson, and many others are generating even more interest into younger teams. The league as a whole is becoming younger (and growing globally) and in turn the talent is spreading more. The biggest issue right now is that the Warriors lucked into the cap spiking at the exact time KD was a free agent. Outside of that, things are pretty much the norm for the NBA. Most of the really good teams have 2 stars and role players (which has been the case for the majority of the leagues' history outside of the occasional superteam dynasties).

My point is, we need to look past the Warriors because they aren't gonna be there forever(their not unbeatable now, just really difficult currently but that's another topic). If they weren't where they are now and were "normal" you'd have as many as 8 teams you could make a case for being contenders which is half the playoff field. There are a number of young teams people are interested in seeing because of the hype following young guys LAL, PHI, PHX, SAC, etc. Then there are teams with stars but the talent around them is questionable like NO, MIL, WAS, etc.

Lastly, I hate to say this but, for as much as I like New Orleans it should be obvious by now that it's not going to work there. They may have had a sliver of a chance but 4 things happened that ruined it. The first was losing the Jazz the first time (which showed NO didn't really gravitate towards BBall though it was the 70's). That was huge as that name in general embodies the region and I think fans could've and would've latched onto them as opposed to the Hornets and Pelicans monikers. Second, losing the Jazz left a city devoid of any history for over 20 years. That's a whole generation of fans born and raised in that city with no basketball team, in football country no less. They had no chance to make a inroads into the fabric of the city nor culture thus no one develops a bond with the franchise that arrived later. Third, Hurricane Katrina ended all hope that it could work the 2nd time when the Hornets came to town. They've had fun teams with Baron Davis, CP3, and now AD and not one of them could reel in the city like you'd hope. That storm took so much from that city and they're STILL recovering from it. The ones it affected the most were the same people who would gravitate to the sport the most and while some came back a lot of people didn't, or couldn't. Fourth and final, Tom Benson won't be there to save them this time once they inevitably go up for sale. They are the least valuable franchise with almost no way to improve and the clocks ticking on AD. Once he's gone, this franchise won't be able to stay there as unfortunate as that is.

I'm not sure the league is willing to take that PR hit. The Sonics are now in OKC partly because the league wouldn't allow the Hornets/Pelicans to stay permanently in OKC after katrina. The league has more than gone out of its way to make sure that the team is successful. Would they ever let it leave? I have my doubts.

Truth, they won the coin flip over the Bobcats to draft NC born and bred Chris Paul. They then later leapfrogged them in the lottery to get Anthony Davis. And then to add insult to injury when Charlotte is finally on the rebound the league takes the all-star game away and gives it to a team in Louisiana of all states. It may be bad karma but I won't cry for them if the team is eventually relocated.

[Cactus Jack]

Let me just say, I can see both sides of the coin when people bring up the dilution of talent. Here's the thing though. I actually think the league is headed into a surplus of talent now and you can get away with it a bit now since one and done guys are known players and brands before they are even drafted. With the rise of Youtube and social media guys like Lonzo Ball, Andrew Wiggins, Zion Williamson, and many others are generating even more interest into younger teams. The league as a whole is becoming younger (and growing globally) and in turn the talent is spreading more. The biggest issue right now is that the Warriors lucked into the cap spiking at the exact time KD was a free agent. Outside of that, things are pretty much the norm for the NBA. Most of the really good teams have 2 stars and role players (which has been the case for the majority of the leagues' history outside of the occasional superteam dynasties).

My point is, we need to look past the Warriors because they aren't gonna be there forever(their not unbeatable now, just really difficult currently but that's another topic). If they weren't where they are now and were "normal" you'd have as many as 8 teams you could make a case for being contenders which is half the playoff field. There are a number of young teams people are interested in seeing because of the hype following young guys LAL, PHI, PHX, SAC, etc. Then there are teams with stars but the talent around them is questionable like NO, MIL, WAS, etc.

Lastly, I hate to say this but, for as much as I like New Orleans it should be obvious by now that it's not going to work there. They may have had a sliver of a chance but 4 things happened that ruined it. The first was losing the Jazz the first time (which showed NO didn't really gravitate towards BBall though it was the 70's). That was huge as that name in general embodies the region and I think fans could've and would've latched onto them as opposed to the Hornets and Pelicans monikers. Second, losing the Jazz left a city devoid of any history for over 20 years. That's a whole generation of fans born and raised in that city with no basketball team, in football country no less. They had no chance to make a inroads into the fabric of the city nor culture thus no one develops a bond with the franchise that arrived later. Third, Hurricane Katrina ended all hope that it could work the 2nd time when the Hornets came to town. They've had fun teams with Baron Davis, CP3, and now AD and not one of them could reel in the city like you'd hope. That storm took so much from that city and they're STILL recovering from it. The ones it affected the most were the same people who would gravitate to the sport the most and while some came back a lot of people didn't, or couldn't. Fourth and final, Tom Benson won't be there to save them this time once they inevitably go up for sale. They are the least valuable franchise with almost no way to improve and the clocks ticking on AD. Once he's gone, this franchise won't be able to stay there as unfortunate as that is.

I'm not sure the league is willing to take that PR hit. The Sonics are now in OKC partly because the league wouldn't allow the Hornets/Pelicans to stay permanently in OKC after katrina. The league has more than gone out of its way to make sure that the team is successful. Would they ever let it leave? I have my doubts.

Of course they could if the team is financially struggling.

The whole "move this team" narrative just isn't realistic.

I was told the Kings were headed my way...The Bucks...Clippers...Hawks & so on...

Teams just don't become available & move so readily. Forgive me if I seem skeptical.

[LakerLegend]

I'm not sure the league is willing to take that PR hit. The Sonics are now in OKC partly because the league wouldn't allow the Hornets/Pelicans to stay permanently in OKC after katrina. The league has more than gone out of its way to make sure that the team is successful. Would they ever let it leave? I have my doubts.

Of course they could if the team is financially struggling.

The whole "move this team" narrative just isn't realistic.

I was told the Kings were headed my way...The Bucks...Clippers...Hawks & so on...

Teams just don't become available & move so readily. Forgive me if I seem skeptical.

What? Teams move for a variety of reasons. It happens. Literally. What's unrealistic about it?

Doesn't mean it happens overnight, but it does happen.

[Cactus Jack]

Of course they could if the team is financially struggling.

The whole "move this team" narrative just isn't realistic.

I was told the Kings were headed my way...The Bucks...Clippers...Hawks & so on...

Teams just don't become available & move so readily. Forgive me if I seem skeptical.

What? Teams move for a variety of reasons. It happens. Literally. What's unrealistic about it?

Doesn't mean it happens overnight, but it does happen.

Lol

I've been down this road before.

Spoiler:

I've been waiting for the last 9 years.

[Det the Threat]

You & I both know that Hansen is not going to get approval now. Especially with how the city is hell bent on Seattle Center. The mayor & council are going to fast track Leiweke's plan.

I prefer Sodo myself. But, unless Key falls through & it won't, Sodo's dead. I think Chris knows this. Hopefully, when they do break ground on Key, he'll partner up with Leiweke & co. At the end of the day, what matters is that it gets built & both the NHL and NBA come calling. Enough with the Sodo or bust talk!

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to that **** show with a guy in charge(Leiweke) who doesn't seem to be too concerned about aquiring an NBA team and alright with just the NHL and music.

And even if it does happen, it's going to be one of the smallest arenas in the league and could probably end up like the last rebuilt, which ended in Schulz asking for a new renovation about a decade later...

[Cactus Jack]

You & I both know that Hansen is not going to get approval now. Especially with how the city is hell bent on Seattle Center. The mayor & council are going to fast track Leiweke's plan.

I prefer Sodo myself. But, unless Key falls through & it won't, Sodo's dead. I think Chris knows this. Hopefully, when they do break ground on Key, he'll partner up with Leiweke & co. At the end of the day, what matters is that it gets built & both the NHL and NBA come calling. Enough with the Sodo or bust talk!

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to that **** show with a guy in charge(Leiweke) who doesn't seem to be too concerned about aquiring an NBA team and alright with just the NHL and music.

And even if it does happen, it's going to be one of the smallest arenas in the league and could probably end up like the last rebuilt, which ended in Schulz asking for a new renovation about a decade later...

Do we really have much choice in the matter? They've been delaying Hansen's for 5 plus years now. Might as well take what we can get at this point. **** it. Just build the damn thing!

[QCalloway25]

I'm not sure the league is willing to take that PR hit. The Sonics are now in OKC partly because the league wouldn't allow the Hornets/Pelicans to stay permanently in OKC after katrina. The league has more than gone out of its way to make sure that the team is successful. Would they ever let it leave? I have my doubts.

Of course they could if the team is financially struggling.

The whole "move this team" narrative just isn't realistic.

I was told the Kings were headed my way...The Bucks...Clippers...Hawks & so on...

Teams just don't become available & move so readily. Forgive me if I seem skeptical.

That's why I outlined what the series of events will probably be that leads to it. They've tried saving this team many times, just as they have every other team since they messed up and moved the Sonics. The problem now is there's no coming back this time. They've tried rebranding to ingratiate themselves more to the region. They found a owner willing to keep them in NO even though financially the situation hasn't been viable and with his age and family structure it isn't looking good long term. The biggest key will be AD though. Everyone complains about stars leaving small markets, but AD is one of the few that if he leaves, that could plummet the value of this team as they're barely a draw even with him. The only way to improve the financial stability and long term sustainability if he leaves (which is more than likely at this point), I'd expect the team will be on the market. At that point, they'll open it up to buyers who aren't local (they damn near didn't find one the last time) to get what the team is worth OR more as they'll be moved to a larger more financially suitable market.

Just so you're aware, AD can become a FA in 2021 and the Hornets lease is up in 2024, but if I'm not mistaken they still have a clause in it that allows to break the lease early if attendance thresholds aren't met. Even if not, I've learned enough about this process by researching the Sonics to know leases mean jack squat when the corporate world wants to break them. Add in the Seattle more than likely screwing Hansen instead of just vacating that damn street, the Key will be renovated by 2022 (gotta throw in an extra year cause SEATTLE).

[Clemenza]

I think the two best cities to expand into are:

Seattle
Vegas

Both would be west coast teams and we could move one of the furthest West coast teams into the Eastern conference. I know Vegas would have a lot of potential problems but really denying the city any professional team forever seems odd.

The citizens of Vegas can't support 3 pro teams. Outside of the strip Vegas isn't a hotbed of people with large amounts of disposable income. 8 NFL games is easy to pull off in any metro area but I really can't even see hockey surviving there after the novelty wears off in a couple of years. If the NBA team would've came before hockey then yeah it would be a no brainer, but not so sure now.

[-TheDocOfDenial]

Someone needs to buy the pelicans and move them to seattle. Only way.