Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion

[dremill24]

Everyone willing to just throw Chriss into a deal for Kyrie because he had a bad summer league baffle me. You all act like Kyrie is the 2nd coming again he is talented and is one of the best scorers of the basketball in the NBA, he is also one of the worst defenders of the basketball in the NBA and seems to have little to no care in making others around him better. I just don't see the fit with Booker it doesnt make sense. The Warriors do what they do because they all play selfless basketball and they all play D. Would I be willing to take a chance it works and trade Bled, Duds, and Miami 1st yes but thats it, and that is more than likely better than any offer they are going to get, unless they basically tell LeBron screw you and go all in on a rebuild knowing James is leaving and take back a bunch of young prospects and picks.

You have to give them something to make them accept the deal. You can't offer a downgrade at PG plus a bunch of scraps and expect them to take it.

Chriss averaged something like 17 and 7 after the all star break. In the real NBA. That compares to Kyrie at the same age. That is more than a throw-in.

Stars are not traded for fair value. Fans here keep throwing in insane trades that try to mirror fair value when that never happens in the NBA. Nobody trades 4-5 1st rounders plus guys of Bleds caliber in the same trades. I would argue taking on Shump (which normally would cost Cle a 1st), while including Bled (probably worth a couple 1sts) and Chriss (definitely worth a 1st) and extras is too much and not close to the traditional star trade. Cleveland, if anything, will get less because it became public that he wants out.

The standard is 3 1sts for a star. That is usually what happens. Also, just because the Cavs want a young player doesn't mean they will get one.

Bledsoe averages 20, 6, and 4 with much better D than Kyrie, and a much better relationship with Lebron than Kyrie. Kyrie is a better player than Bled, but not by that much, and is arguably a worse fit for Cle than Bled.

All we have to do is beat the next best offer. If Minnesota is willing to include Wiggins we aren't winning this trade anyways. Cleveland will take that. Melo maybe too, but he isn't waiving his no trade to go to Cleveland according to reports. Thus, our trade with Bled, Dudley or Chandler, plus taking on Shump is the best on the table. I don't think we should have to include any of the youngsters here, and if that ends up being the case, then just walk away. Cleveland's value for Kyrie is only going to go down because he only has 2 years on his contract and they know he wants out, and the situation will not get better with him and Lebron the longer they play together.

Well that's the point right? He's not just a throw in, and thats what gets them to bite. Teams dont make deals for the throw ins they make them for the legitimate pieces.

[Kerrsed]

Whether you think Bickley is "dialed in" or not he says has a source with Cleveland saying the Suns are offering Bledsoe plus both Bender AND Chriss. If you care they start talking about it at 13:45-ish..

http://arizonasports.com/category/podcast_player/?a=334060&sid=1015&n=Bickley+%26+Marotta

My take:

-This refutes everything that Gambo has been saying. Talks are still on going and the Kryie to Phoenix plan is NOT dead.

- Im guessing from Bickley's Cleveland "Source", Once we took Jackson off the table and told Cleveland to try again, this was Cleveland's next idea (Bender & Chriss).

- When it comes to negotiations it works like this: Team A calls Team B about a player. Team A asks "What do you want for him". Team B replies with what they want. Team A says no, we cant do that, how about this. Team B says no, we insist on Jackson. Team A says, no can do Jackson isnt being traded, find a better deal elsewhere. Team B calls back with a different idea. Now its up to Team A to take the new trade idea, or refute it with something else. Eventually the two teams will settle somewhere in the middle. Its a game of back and forth and seeing who will flinch first. Cleveland has to trade Irving, while we dont have to trade anyone, so more than likely Cleveland (Team B) will flinch first and give in at some point.

Did you listen to Bickley? He said Cleveland had no interest in Chriss or Bender when the Suns offered it.

Yeah, i was just editing my post to reflect why i believe what i do when you quoted me.

They are not getting Jackson. We know this. They know this. We also know that all this information is leaking out of Cleveland like a siv. I mean we have heard about damn near every "offer" from multiple teams. Whys that? Because the Cavs are feeding reporters info, and what i believe is bad info. Supposedly the Wolves offered Wiggins+ for Irving. I dont believe that one bit. I think the Cavs "Leaked" that out so the Suns would up their offer (Including Jackson). McD didnt fall for it. I bet he made them a reasonable offer, and they still want more, so now the Cav's put word out there that we "offered" Chriss AND Bender (Along with Bledsoe and a pick), but it wasnt good enough so they turned it down, in hopes of another team (Maybe the Wolves) coming back to the table and upping their offer more than what they previously offered.

Look, the Cavs are in a **** situation. They want a Blue Chip prospect, but the only teams that really have blue chip prospects arnt really contenders with or without Irving, so why risk sending that young stud away when Irving can walk in a few years. The contender teams that could really use Irving dont have any Blue Chips or honestly anything for that matter to offer Cleveland. And the Cavs are at a point where they have to trade Irving, so they are the ones that benefit the most of leaking out all these fake proposals out there to get some kind of little bit of leverage back so they can try to get the most they can from the few teams that they are still talking with.

Like seriously, when have you ever heard this much info on a daily basis for well over a week being leaked out of a FO? I'd say like everyday there has been 3+ new updates on what teams are talking to them, what offers have been made, etc etc. Thats because the FO is giving phony info out left and right to hurry up and get in a better position at the negotiating table.

That is what i believe 110%!

[AtheJ415]

You have to give them something to make them accept the deal. You can't offer a downgrade at PG plus a bunch of scraps and expect them to take it.

Chriss averaged something like 17 and 7 after the all star break. In the real NBA. That compares to Kyrie at the same age. That is more than a throw-in.

Stars are not traded for fair value. Fans here keep throwing in insane trades that try to mirror fair value when that never happens in the NBA. Nobody trades 4-5 1st rounders plus guys of Bleds caliber in the same trades. I would argue taking on Shump (which normally would cost Cle a 1st), while including Bled (probably worth a couple 1sts) and Chriss (definitely worth a 1st) and extras is too much and not close to the traditional star trade. Cleveland, if anything, will get less because it became public that he wants out.

The standard is 3 1sts for a star. That is usually what happens. Also, just because the Cavs want a young player doesn't mean they will get one.

Bledsoe averages 20, 6, and 4 with much better D than Kyrie, and a much better relationship with Lebron than Kyrie. Kyrie is a better player than Bled, but not by that much, and is arguably a worse fit for Cle than Bled.

All we have to do is beat the next best offer. If Minnesota is willing to include Wiggins we aren't winning this trade anyways. Cleveland will take that. Melo maybe too, but he isn't waiving his no trade to go to Cleveland according to reports. Thus, our trade with Bled, Dudley or Chandler, plus taking on Shump is the best on the table. I don't think we should have to include any of the youngsters here, and if that ends up being the case, then just walk away. Cleveland's value for Kyrie is only going to go down because he only has 2 years on his contract and they know he wants out, and the situation will not get better with him and Lebron the longer they play together.

Well that's the point right? He's not just a throw in, and thats what gets them to bite. Teams dont make deals for the throw ins they make them for the legitimate pieces.

The Suns don't need to force the Cavs to make a trade. The situation and clock favor Phoenix here--not Cleveland. Kyrie's value will only go down once the season starts. Also, that is simply an overpay of epic proportions for a mediocre, at best, upgrade over Bled.

[bwgood77]

My take:

-This refutes everything that Gambo has been saying. Talks are still on going and the Kryie to Phoenix plan is NOT dead.

- Im guessing from Bickley's Cleveland "Source", Once we took Jackson off the table and told Cleveland to try again, this was Cleveland's next idea (Bender & Chriss).

- When it comes to negotiations it works like this: Team A calls Team B about a player. Team A asks "What do you want for him". Team B replies with what they want. Team A says no, we cant do that, how about this. Team B says no, we insist on Jackson. Team A says, no can do Jackson isnt being traded, find a better deal elsewhere. Team B calls back with a different idea. Now its up to Team A to take the new trade idea, or refute it with something else. Eventually the two teams will settle somewhere in the middle. Its a game of back and forth and seeing who will flinch first. Cleveland has to trade Irving, while we dont have to trade anyone, so more than likely Cleveland (Team B) will flinch first and give in at some point.

Did you listen to Bickley? He said Cleveland had no interest in Chriss or Bender when the Suns offered it.

Yeah, i was just editing my post to reflect why i believe what i do when you quoted me.

They are not getting Jackson. We know this. They know this. We also know that all this information is leaking out of Cleveland like a siv. I mean we have heard about damn near every "offer" from multiple teams. Whys that? Because the Cavs are feeding reporters info, and what i believe is bad info. Supposedly the Wolves offered Wiggins+ for Irving. I dont believe that one bit. I think the Cavs "Leaked" that out so the Suns would up their offer (Including Jackson). McD didnt fall for it. I bet he made them a reasonable offer, and they still want more, so now the Cav's put word out there that we "offered" Chriss AND Bender (Along with Bledsoe and a pick), but it wasnt good enough so they turned it down, in hopes of another team (Maybe the Wolves) coming back to the table and upping their offer more than what they previously offered.

Look, the Cavs are in a **** situation. They want a Blue Chip prospect, but the only teams that really have blue chip prospects arnt really contenders with or without Irving, so why risk sending that young stud away when Irving can walk in a few years. The contender teams that could really use Irving dont have any Blue Chips or honestly anything for that matter to offer Cleveland. And the Cavs are at a point where they have to trade Irving, so they are the ones that benefit the most of leaking out all these fake proposals out there to get some kind of little bit of leverage back so they can try to get the most they can from the few teams that they are still talking with.

Like seriously, when have you ever heard this much info on a daily basis for well over a week being leaked out of a FO? I'd say like everyday there has been 3+ new updates on what teams are talking to them, what offers have been made, etc etc. Thats because the FO is giving phony info out left and right to hurry up and get in a better position at the negotiating table.

That is what i believe 110%!

Can you point me or link me to the place that says Minnesota offered Wiggins?

[Puff]

Quite frankly I am not impressed with Chriss or Bender.

I am hopeful that they will turn into something. But realistically they have been poor at best.

I know a lot of folks have high hopes for them, that includes me, but they may just suck their entire career. Then again they both could be all stars. I really do not know which of them I like best. Neither of them have stood out at anything. Their best quality at this point is that they are young and people believe they have talent.

We would end up with 4 potentially explosive offensive players (Kyrie, Booker, Jackson & Warren)

Kyrie - Curry
Booker - Thompson
Jackson - Draymond
Warren - Durant
Williams - Pachulia

and take your pick for bigs to rebound & defend the paint - Chandler, Len, Williams & Peters.

I am not suggesting that any of our guys are as good as any of the guys on Golden State but they basically play a rebounder/defender and 4 scorers and beat the hell out of everyone. Your big has to rebound and defend. Houston plays the same way.

This is the way the league is going. Quite frankly if neither Chriss or Bender cannot rebound and defend why do we even want them. I really do not know why Cleveland would want them at this point. I would take Warren and a pick if I were them.

Interesting. At least it keeps the conversation going. I really will not be upset if we do make this move.

To repeat, as long as Booker and Jackson are in the starting lineup on opening night I could care less what happens to the rest of the roster.

I know some are against it but if we do get Kyrie, we could have our big 3 for the next 10 years.

[jredsaz]

My take:

-This refutes everything that Gambo has been saying. Talks are still on going and the Kryie to Phoenix plan is NOT dead.

- Im guessing from Bickley's Cleveland "Source", Once we took Jackson off the table and told Cleveland to try again, this was Cleveland's next idea (Bender & Chriss).

- When it comes to negotiations it works like this: Team A calls Team B about a player. Team A asks "What do you want for him". Team B replies with what they want. Team A says no, we cant do that, how about this. Team B says no, we insist on Jackson. Team A says, no can do Jackson isnt being traded, find a better deal elsewhere. Team B calls back with a different idea. Now its up to Team A to take the new trade idea, or refute it with something else. Eventually the two teams will settle somewhere in the middle. Its a game of back and forth and seeing who will flinch first. Cleveland has to trade Irving, while we dont have to trade anyone, so more than likely Cleveland (Team B) will flinch first and give in at some point.

Did you listen to Bickley? He said Cleveland had no interest in Chriss or Bender when the Suns offered it.

Yeah, i was just editing my post to reflect why i believe what i do when you quoted me.

They are not getting Jackson. We know this. They know this. We also know that all this information is leaking out of Cleveland like a siv. I mean we have heard about damn near every "offer" from multiple teams. Whys that? Because the Cavs are feeding reporters info, and what i believe is bad info. Supposedly the Wolves offered Wiggins+ for Irving. I dont believe that one bit. I think the Cavs "Leaked" that out so the Suns would up their offer (Including Jackson). McD didnt fall for it. I bet he made them a reasonable offer, and they still want more, so now the Cav's put word out there that we "offered" Chriss AND Bender (Along with Bledsoe and a pick), but it wasnt good enough so they turned it down, in hopes of another team (Maybe the Wolves) coming back to the table and upping their offer more than what they previously offered.

Look, the Cavs are in a **** situation. They want a Blue Chip prospect, but the only teams that really have blue chip prospects arnt really contenders with or without Irving, so why risk sending that young stud away when Irving can walk in a few years. The contender teams that could really use Irving dont have any Blue Chips or honestly anything for that matter to offer Cleveland. And the Cavs are at a point where they have to trade Irving, so they are the ones that benefit the most of leaking out all these fake proposals out there to get some kind of little bit of leverage back so they can try to get the most they can from the few teams that they are still talking with.

Like seriously, when have you ever heard this much info on a daily basis for well over a week being leaked out of a FO? I'd say like everyday there has been 3+ new updates on what teams are talking to them, what offers have been made, etc etc. Thats because the FO is giving phony info out left and right to hurry up and get in a better position at the negotiating table.

That is what i believe 110%!

I agree on the basics. These leaks are coming from Cleveland to up other offers. I just have a feeling if a blue chip was available the deal would be done. I also have a feeling, and why I disagree with Gambo, that one won't get offered. The "they have better deals on the table" line is a tough one tho. If we don't grade a blue chip asset then it comes down to the Cavs preference of the "B" assets. It's a Boogie scenario all over again.

An example would be they prefer Winslow to Warren and consider Dragic and Bledsoe a wash. Irving goes to Miami.

The good news in this scenario is that Bledsoe should carry more value than most other B assets due to his relationship with LeBron.

Idk. It's cool having something like this going on heading into August tho. Lol

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

[Kerrsed]

Did you listen to Bickley? He said Cleveland had no interest in Chriss or Bender when the Suns offered it.

Yeah, i was just editing my post to reflect why i believe what i do when you quoted me.

They are not getting Jackson. We know this. They know this. We also know that all this information is leaking out of Cleveland like a siv. I mean we have heard about damn near every "offer" from multiple teams. Whys that? Because the Cavs are feeding reporters info, and what i believe is bad info. Supposedly the Wolves offered Wiggins+ for Irving. I dont believe that one bit. I think the Cavs "Leaked" that out so the Suns would up their offer (Including Jackson). McD didnt fall for it. I bet he made them a reasonable offer, and they still want more, so now the Cav's put word out there that we "offered" Chriss AND Bender (Along with Bledsoe and a pick), but it wasnt good enough so they turned it down, in hopes of another team (Maybe the Wolves) coming back to the table and upping their offer more than what they previously offered.

Look, the Cavs are in a **** situation. They want a Blue Chip prospect, but the only teams that really have blue chip prospects arnt really contenders with or without Irving, so why risk sending that young stud away when Irving can walk in a few years. The contender teams that could really use Irving dont have any Blue Chips or honestly anything for that matter to offer Cleveland. And the Cavs are at a point where they have to trade Irving, so they are the ones that benefit the most of leaking out all these fake proposals out there to get some kind of little bit of leverage back so they can try to get the most they can from the few teams that they are still talking with.

Like seriously, when have you ever heard this much info on a daily basis for well over a week being leaked out of a FO? I'd say like everyday there has been 3+ new updates on what teams are talking to them, what offers have been made, etc etc. Thats because the FO is giving phony info out left and right to hurry up and get in a better position at the negotiating table.

That is what i believe 110%!

Can you point me or link me to the place that says Minnesota offered Wiggins?

Yeah, that part is a bit sketch. Ive been on the trade board a ton these past few days and have heard a lot of the Wiggins chatter on there. When i googled "Wiggins for", Wiggins for Irving was the 1st predicted auto fill in. Most of the links say that the WOlves are very interested in Irving and COULD include Wiggins, but havent found anything really concrete besides a few sites that say he was offered, but the quote leads back to people saying that they COULD include him.

So yeah......

Read on Twitter

[thamadkant]

Quite frankly I am not impressed with Chriss or Bender.

I am hopeful that they will turn into something. But realistically they have been poor at best.

I know a lot of folks have high hopes for them, that includes me, but they may just suck their entire career. Then again they both could be all stars. I really do not know which of them I like best. Neither of them have stood out at anything. Their best quality at this point is that they are young and people believe they have talent.

We would end up with 4 potentially explosive offensive players (Kyrie, Booker, Jackson & Warren)

Kyrie - Curry
Booker - Thompson
Jackson - Draymond
Warren - Durant
Williams - Pachulia

and take your pick for bigs to rebound & defend the paint - Chandler, Len, Williams & Peters.

I am not suggesting that any of our guys are as good as any of the guys on Golden State but they basically play a rebounder/defender and 4 scorers and beat the hell out of everyone. Your big has to rebound and defend. Houston plays the same way.

This is the way the league is going. Quite frankly if neither Chriss or Bender cannot rebound and defend why do we even want them. I really do not know why Cleveland would want them at this point. I would take Warren and a pick if I were them.

Interesting. At least it keeps the conversation going. I really will not be upset if we do make this move.

To repeat, as long as Booker and Jackson are in the starting lineup on opening night I could care less what happens to the rest of the roster.

I know some are against it but if we do get Kyrie, we could have our big 3 for the next 10 years.

I chuckled with the comparisons.

Thompson is the NBA's best catch and shoot SG/SF. And Top SG Defender.
Durant is the league's best offensive player, if not next to Curry and have over taken Lebron as most dominant SF. He is also a top 10 if not higher wing defender.
Green is the DPOY and top 3 overall defender at the SF and PF spots.

Combine that with their unselfishness and maturity to play roles.... its not close.


my point is.... WING defense is IMMENSE for success... as well as clear offensive roles and ELITE skills in that end, ala Shooting, triple threath, passing etc.

[Fo-Real]

Yep, the Cavs and Suns are on two totally opposite paths, Kyrie ASKED for a trade, Bled came out and said he wants to stay and win HERE. They HAVE to trade Kyrie, and it's widely reported they WANT Bled, we could tell them to kick rocks and figure their own **** out, and we can stay the course we are on and start the season with Bled and Book in the backcourt. Kyrie didn't even mention us as a destination, sparking 3 way trades including who the whole DAMN LEAGUE thinks should be perused to replace him (ERIC GODDAMN BLEDSO) We didn't think that up for them.

That said, I'm not helping you un **** yourself by giving you any of Booker, Jackson, Bender, Chriss .. (not even ulis). Its going out of my way (knowing you want a young talent) to even offer Tj Warren, because you got to give something to get something, but we like this dude. So Bled, Duds, Picks (Miami or ours) and if absolutely need be Tj, and that's all you get from me. Take it, or leave the **** alone and we can continue our previous course.

[TeamTragic]

Quite frankly I am not impressed with Chriss or Bender.

I am hopeful that they will turn into something. But realistically they have been poor at best.

I know a lot of folks have high hopes for them, that includes me, but they may just suck their entire career. Then again they both could be all stars. I really do not know which of them I like best. Neither of them have stood out at anything. Their best quality at this point is that they are young and people believe they have talent.

We would end up with 4 potentially explosive offensive players (Kyrie, Booker, Jackson & Warren)

Kyrie - Curry
Booker - Thompson
Jackson - Draymond
Warren - Durant
Williams - Pachulia

and take your pick for bigs to rebound & defend the paint - Chandler, Len, Williams & Peters.

I am not suggesting that any of our guys are as good as any of the guys on Golden State but they basically play a rebounder/defender and 4 scorers and beat the hell out of everyone. Your big has to rebound and defend. Houston plays the same way.

This is the way the league is going. Quite frankly if neither Chriss or Bender cannot rebound and defend why do we even want them. I really do not know why Cleveland would want them at this point. I would take Warren and a pick if I were them.

Interesting. At least it keeps the conversation going. I really will not be upset if we do make this move.

To repeat, as long as Booker and Jackson are in the starting lineup on opening night I could care less what happens to the rest of the roster.

I know some are against it but if we do get Kyrie, we could have our big 3 for the next 10 years.

Bender has barely played. Chriss just finished his first season. I'm not sure what you guys expect this early

[bwgood77]

I agree on the basics. These leaks are coming from Cleveland to up other offers. I just have a feeling if a blue chip was available the deal would be done. I also have a feeling, and why I disagree with Gambo, that one won't get offered. The "they have better deals on the table" line is a tough one tho. If we don't grade a blue chip asset then it comes down to the Cavs preference of the "B" assets. It's a Boogie scenario all over again.

An example would be they prefer Winslow to Warren and consider Dragic and Bledsoe a wash. Irving goes to Miami.

The good news in this scenario is that Bledsoe should carry more value than most other B assets due to his relationship with LeBron.

Idk. It's cool having something like this going on heading into August tho. Lol

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

The biggest difference between us and Miami, is that we have all our picks we could offer (hopefully not) and their's. They can't trade a pick until 2023.

[Mulhollanddrive]

How many wins would this roster get?

Bledsoe, Oladipo, Jackson, Sabonis, Len
Dunn, Hield, Jones, Peters, Williams

Spoiler:

Because with 3 future firsts = Irving, Butler, George, Cousins

[bwgood77]

Bender has barely played. Chriss just finished his first season. I'm not sure what you guys expect this early

Yeah, that's crazy. Bender should be a freshman or sophomore in college this year. Even AFTER this recent draft, I think he is still like the 11th youngest player in the league...and I think he mentioned no defense...Bender's perimeter defense and passing is high level. His bbiq is high...very high. He better not be traded.

[bwgood77]

How many wins would this roster get?

Bledsoe, Oladipo, Jackson, Sabonis, Len
Dunn, Hield, Jones, Peters, Williams

Spoiler:

Because with 3 future firsts = Irving, Butler, George, Cousins

29? Did I win?

[Mulhollanddrive]

(Check the spoiler)

[bwgood77]

(Check the spoiler)

why leave out players like LaVine, Markkanen, etc?

[Mulhollanddrive]

Bledsoe, Lavine, Hield, Jackson, Markkanen
Fox, Dunn, Oladipo, Sabonis

= Irving, Butler, George, Cousins

I think our roster and assets are pretty similar to the above and if we had chosen to flip them for a big 3-4 we could have gotten them.

[dremill24]

Chriss averaged something like 17 and 7 after the all star break. In the real NBA. That compares to Kyrie at the same age. That is more than a throw-in.

Stars are not traded for fair value. Fans here keep throwing in insane trades that try to mirror fair value when that never happens in the NBA. Nobody trades 4-5 1st rounders plus guys of Bleds caliber in the same trades. I would argue taking on Shump (which normally would cost Cle a 1st), while including Bled (probably worth a couple 1sts) and Chriss (definitely worth a 1st) and extras is too much and not close to the traditional star trade. Cleveland, if anything, will get less because it became public that he wants out.

The standard is 3 1sts for a star. That is usually what happens. Also, just because the Cavs want a young player doesn't mean they will get one.

Bledsoe averages 20, 6, and 4 with much better D than Kyrie, and a much better relationship with Lebron than Kyrie. Kyrie is a better player than Bled, but not by that much, and is arguably a worse fit for Cle than Bled.

All we have to do is beat the next best offer. If Minnesota is willing to include Wiggins we aren't winning this trade anyways. Cleveland will take that. Melo maybe too, but he isn't waiving his no trade to go to Cleveland according to reports. Thus, our trade with Bled, Dudley or Chandler, plus taking on Shump is the best on the table. I don't think we should have to include any of the youngsters here, and if that ends up being the case, then just walk away. Cleveland's value for Kyrie is only going to go down because he only has 2 years on his contract and they know he wants out, and the situation will not get better with him and Lebron the longer they play together.

Well that's the point right? He's not just a throw in, and thats what gets them to bite. Teams dont make deals for the throw ins they make them for the legitimate pieces.

The Suns don't need to force the Cavs to make a trade. The situation and clock favor Phoenix here--not Cleveland. Kyrie's value will only go down once the season starts. Also, that is simply an overpay of epic proportions for a mediocre, at best, upgrade over Bled.

I mean you're right, they don't. I guess I'm just speaking in the context of the Suns (or any team, I'm really speaking on principles here) wanting to make a deal for Kyrie (or established star player X). Point being, unless you have extreme, PG-like circumstances, you have to make an offer that will actually entice the other team, hence the term 'trade.'

I also think people are overstating the Cavs' NEED to move Kyrie. He's under contract for 2 more years. They've made 3 straight Finals with one title even with a Kyrie who apparently isn't crazy about playing with LeBron. I think a lot of us are being quite homer-ish in stating how Cleveland has no leverage and have to make a deal with whatever team makes the best offer. We'd like it to be that way, but unless the situation takes a completely drastic and toxic turn, I don't see him getting dealt at all unless it's for an offer that they truly like.

And to be clear, I personally have not offered an opinion on including Chriss in a deal, I was simply commenting on referring to him as a throw in. I don't think anyone who includes him in a proposal thinks of him that way, they're just trying to come up with a piece that can be added that Cleveland might value enough to get them to bite, while still being a piece that SOME feel would be expendable from our end.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Similar to Cousins, George, Butler it depends whether he extends or not.

2 years of a player vs 6 years of a player technically the packages should be 3 times more / less.

[AtheJ415]

Well that's the point right? He's not just a throw in, and thats what gets them to bite. Teams dont make deals for the throw ins they make them for the legitimate pieces.

The Suns don't need to force the Cavs to make a trade. The situation and clock favor Phoenix here--not Cleveland. Kyrie's value will only go down once the season starts. Also, that is simply an overpay of epic proportions for a mediocre, at best, upgrade over Bled.

I mean you're right, they don't. I guess I'm just speaking in the context of the Suns (or any team, I'm really speaking on principles here) wanting to make a deal for Kyrie (or established star player X). Point being, unless you have extreme, PG-like circumstances, you have to make an offer that will actually entice the other team, hence the term 'trade.'

I also think people are overstating the Cavs' NEED to move Kyrie. He's under contract for 2 more years. They've made 3 straight Finals with one title even with a Kyrie who apparently isn't crazy about playing with LeBron. I think a lot of us are being quite homer-ish in stating how Cleveland has no leverage and have to make a deal with whatever team makes the best offer. We'd like it to be that way, but unless the situation takes a completely drastic and toxic turn, I don't see him getting dealt at all unless it's for an offer that they truly like.

And to be clear, I personally have not offered an opinion on including Chriss in a deal, I was simply commenting on referring to him as a throw in. I don't think anyone who includes him in a proposal thinks of him that way, they're just trying to come up with a piece that can be added that Cleveland might value enough to get them to bite, while still being a piece that SOME feel would be expendable from our end.

The offer simply needs to beat all other offers. Hence, it only has to be more enticing than the other offers, and not necessarily enticing to the trading team at all. Once a team commits to having to trade a guy, the option of keeping him becomes incredibly undesireable. CLE is at that place/in that spot. And I would argue that the proposal you put is more than Chicago got for Butler, NO for Cousins, or Indy for PG, and those guys didn't openly ask for a trade (George simply said he was not going to re-sign, so the team chose to trade him).