All Things Luka Doncic

[UcanUwill]

I honestly think that Doncic is more suited for the NBA than he is for Euro(league) basketball, at least offensively. Just look at Rubio. He's also not an elite athlete, yet he's a much better NBA player than he was a FIBA player.

When you're a passer, being surrounded by better athletes and faster game goes both ways. Sure, there are negatives, but on the other hand you also benefit a lot from having such teammates you can pass the ball to. When you combine that with bigger courts and rules that clearly hugely benefit offensive players ... I just don't see how he's going to fail offensively.

Defense is another story, obviously. But you can cover/hide a lot there just by being smart, a willing defender and in Doncic's case also strong. Sure he's going to get beat often when he's up against super fast and quick players, but he should be above average in other defensive aspects.

I disagree, I dont even know what is Doncic position in the NBA is as of today. He looks way better suited for Euro game.

[SportsGuy8]

I honestly think that Doncic is more suited for the NBA than he is for Euro(league) basketball, at least offensively. Just look at Rubio. He's also not an elite athlete, yet he's a much better NBA player than he was a FIBA player.

When you're a passer, being surrounded by better athletes and faster game goes both ways. Sure, there are negatives, but on the other hand you also benefit a lot from having such teammates you can pass the ball to. When you combine that with bigger courts and rules that clearly hugely benefit offensive players ... I just don't see how he's going to fail offensively.

Defense is another story, obviously. But you can cover/hide a lot there just by being smart, a willing defender and in Doncic's case also strong. Sure he's going to get beat often when he's up against super fast and quick players, but he should be above average in other defensive aspects.

I disagree, I dont even know what is Doncic position in the NBA is as of today. He looks way better suited for Euro game.

And his position in Europe as of today is ... ? Sometimes they use him as a PG, sometimes he's a SF put in a corner ... It's still not clear where he's going to end up eventually, even in Europe.

Look at his 2 main strengths right now:
- Great rebounder, able to go into transition immediately > Perfect for today's NBA, something most coaches want and preach.
- Great in P'n'R > It's debatable, but I would also say it's more suited for the NBA. P'n'R is a very simple "system", extremely effective in the NBA, something many NBA coaches love. European coaches tend to go with a bit more complex systems.

There's one thing that might make him a better player in Europe: lesser competition so it's much more likely he would one day get the keys to a team, something he needs in order to come close to his full potential. It's very possible that the NBA team he ends up on is just going to misuse him, maybe even rightfully so if he ends up on some team with star playmaker.

[UcanUwill]

I honestly think that Doncic is more suited for the NBA than he is for Euro(league) basketball, at least offensively. Just look at Rubio. He's also not an elite athlete, yet he's a much better NBA player than he was a FIBA player.

When you're a passer, being surrounded by better athletes and faster game goes both ways. Sure, there are negatives, but on the other hand you also benefit a lot from having such teammates you can pass the ball to. When you combine that with bigger courts and rules that clearly hugely benefit offensive players ... I just don't see how he's going to fail offensively.

Defense is another story, obviously. But you can cover/hide a lot there just by being smart, a willing defender and in Doncic's case also strong. Sure he's going to get beat often when he's up against super fast and quick players, but he should be above average in other defensive aspects.

I disagree, I dont even know what is Doncic position in the NBA is as of today. He looks way better suited for Euro game.

And his position in Europe as of today is ... ? Sometimes they use him as a PG, sometimes he's a SF put in a corner ... It's still not clear where he's going to end up eventually, even in Europe.

Look at his 2 main strengths right now:
- Great rebounder, able to go into transition immediately > Perfect for today's NBA, something most coaches want and preach.
- Great in P'n'R > It's debatable, but I would also say it's more suited for the NBA. P'n'R is a very simple "system", extremely effective in the NBA, something many NBA coaches love. European coaches tend to go with a bit more complex systems.

There's one thing that might make him a better player in Europe: lesser competition so it's much more likely he would one day get the keys to a team, something he needs in order to come close to his full potential. It's very possible that the NBA team he ends up on is just going to misuse him, maybe even rightfully so if he ends up on some team with star playmaker.

Hes PG in Europe, no question about it. And in the NBA, you really need to be good in miss match game to be very effective PnR player. They gonna switch on him all the time, negating the PnR. I mean I am not sure what he excels at to be honest. He is not like RUbio at all, he is very Euro friendly, NBA questionable. Rubio was very NBA friendly, he was faster, who sucks at half court (which is all Euroleague is) but is good at fast break offenses, and much better 1 on 1 defender.

[SportsGuy8]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I really think P'n'R is easier in the NBA. It's hard to defend when you can be in a serious disadvantaged position in a split second, but you cannot recover due to the rules. Allowed physicality allows you to recover more easily in Europe.

But maybe I'm wrong, we'll see.

Hes PG in Europe, no question about it.

Uh oh, Mirotic incoming ...

[pacersGM]

in the last 20 seasons, how many white guys were picked: 1,2, or 3 in the draft?

1- bogut, bargnani
2 - van horn, milicic,
3 - lafrentz, gasol, dunleavy, morrison, kanter

how many of those were white guards, ball handlers? none.
how many of those were above average? gasol, bogut for a year or 2.

doncic with the tools that he has, can be a solid nba player. and a legend in europe if he returns there.
but he cant be a face of a nba franchise in my opinion.

if he is a top 3-5 pick, he will be always seen as underachieving at the nba level.


rubio was always praised for his court vision, briliant passes, but do they make him a stand out player in the nba? for shure not, as nobody will give the rains to a player averaging 10 ppg., sorry. and the same genius court vision is attributed to doncic alot. will it be enough at the nba level? highly doubtfull. and to everyone saying he is only 18. well yeah, but he wont evolve into a completely different human beiing in 2-4 years. he wont get much faster, he will get a bit stronger, but his game isnt abusing the opposing weaker player in the post or by speed anyways. so i tip, he is limited in his nba potential in my mind

[BoardCrusher]

Baiting, warned.

----Marcus

[Marcus]

in the last 20 seasons, how many white guys were picked: 1,2, or 3 in the draft?

1- bogut, bargnani
2 - van horn, milicic,
3 - lafrentz, gasol, dunleavy, morrison, kanter

how many of those were white guards, ball handlers? none.
how many of those were above average? gasol, bogut for a year or 2.

doncic with the tools that he has, can be a solid nba player. and a legend in europe if he returns there.
but he cant be a face of a nba franchise in my opinion.

if he is a top 3-5 pick, he will be always seen as underachieving at the nba level.


rubio was always praised for his court vision, briliant passes, but do they make him a stand out player in the nba? for shure not, as nobody will give the rains to a player averaging 10 ppg., sorry. and the same genius court vision is attributed to doncic alot. will it be enough at the nba level? highly doubtfull. and to everyone saying he is only 18. well yeah, but he wont evolve into a completely different human beiing in 2-4 years. he wont get much faster, he will get a bit stronger, but his game isnt abusing the opposing weaker player in the post or by speed anyways. so i tip, he is limited in his nba potential in my mind

If you don't like his game then you don't like his game. Leave his race out of it. Last chance.

[916fan]

Luka is better than Lonzo as a prospect. He is worse at passing, better at absolutely everything else. I have him as the best prospect since LeBron. All those people slobbering over Bamba, Ayton or Porter lmao. Those 3 are great prospect, but they are not on the same stratosphere as Luka.

I really not that high, because, what he excels at? I mean he is very advanced for his age, but to think he just gonna poliish every single aspect in his game going forward is pretty silly. He is entering the age where you really need to show where would you excel at at elite level, if you want to be number one pick. Right now he looks more like a role player rather than best prospect in 14 years.

I'm not fully on Doncic's hype train yet. HOWEVER, something important we have to realize is that we're all judging 16/17 yearold Doncic. Lots of HS players improve tremendously from 17 to 18. Another thing I'd like to point out is that he's also younger than most of the top freshman this year. Doncic turned 18 in Feb, while Porter Jr, Ayton, Bamba, and Duval recently turned 19. So when you compare him to all the other guys, you have to remember that he's almost 1 year younger than them.

An important thing for me is going to be Doncic's measurements. I have no doubt in my mind that he's a PG in the NBA. However, we have to see what position he'll actually be able to guard. I think his special skillset right now is being a big PG. Right now, Giannis is a very good passer and ball handler, but he's not really a floor general. His playmaking ability is more Gordon Hayward than Lebron. Doncic on the other hand, he's a traditional PG. He's a player who can bring the ball up the floor and set the offense. I don't think he's the same exact player as Lonzo, but the idea is the same.

[pacersGM]

in the last 20 seasons, how many white guys were picked: 1,2, or 3 in the draft?

1- bogut, bargnani
2 - van horn, milicic,
3 - lafrentz, gasol, dunleavy, morrison, kanter

how many of those were white guards, ball handlers? none.
how many of those were above average? gasol, bogut for a year or 2.

doncic with the tools that he has, can be a solid nba player. and a legend in europe if he returns there.
but he cant be a face of a nba franchise in my opinion.

if he is a top 3-5 pick, he will be always seen as underachieving at the nba level.


rubio was always praised for his court vision, briliant passes, but do they make him a stand out player in the nba? for shure not, as nobody will give the rains to a player averaging 10 ppg., sorry. and the same genius court vision is attributed to doncic alot. will it be enough at the nba level? highly doubtfull. and to everyone saying he is only 18. well yeah, but he wont evolve into a completely different human beiing in 2-4 years. he wont get much faster, he will get a bit stronger, but his game isnt abusing the opposing weaker player in the post or by speed anyways. so i tip, he is limited in his nba potential in my mind

If you don't like his game then you don't like his game. Leave his race out of it. Last chance.

shure, if you say so. no problem. i mentioned race as a factor, because caucasians beeing physically inferior to black athletes in 90%, is a major part of their nba projections. and doncic shure is not in those 10% whos athletic ability matches or tops the black athletes.

i am far from beeing racist, and you perceiving my statement as such surprises me.

and who said i dont like his game? me having an opinion (wich is he could have a solid nba career, or a legend status if he plays the majority of his career in europe) seems to be bothering many here. since i dont think he can be a superstar in the nba is somehow less worth of a opinion then somebody saying he can be a nba superstar? that is unfair to say the least?

[SportsGuy8]

in the last 20 seasons, how many white guys were picked: 1,2, or 3 in the draft?

1- bogut, bargnani
2 - van horn, milicic,
3 - lafrentz, gasol, dunleavy, morrison, kanter

how many of those were white guards, ball handlers? none.
how many of those were above average? gasol, bogut for a year or 2.

doncic with the tools that he has, can be a solid nba player. and a legend in europe if he returns there.
but he cant be a face of a nba franchise in my opinion.

if he is a top 3-5 pick, he will be always seen as underachieving at the nba level.

This is the main mistake most Doncic doubters make: comparing him to players that were never even close to the type of prospect he is. From that list only Gasol fits in a similar category.

Nobody else really showed anything that special. They were either putting up big numbers vs. inferior competition (NCAA), or had major head and/or mental issues (Darko and Bargnani). Most were drafted high because they were tall, agile and could shoot. Nobody came close to having a feel and understanding of the game that Doncic has.

rubio was always praised for his court vision, briliant passes, but do they make him a stand out player in the nba? for shure not, as nobody will give the rains to a player averaging 10 ppg., sorry. and the same genius court vision is attributed to doncic alot. will it be enough at the nba level? highly doubtfull. and to everyone saying he is only 18. well yeah, but he wont evolve into a completely different human beiing in 2-4 years. he wont get much faster, he will get a bit stronger, but his game isnt abusing the opposing weaker player in the post or by speed anyways. so i tip, he is limited in his nba potential in my mind

You're talking as if Rubio is some scrub, total bust. Rubio is an ELITE passer, he's arguably also an elite defender (or at least very good), if he was anywhere close to average as a scorer, he would immediately become an All-Star, even All-NBA.

he wont get much faster, he will get a bit stronger, but his game isnt abusing the opposing weaker player in the post

Here it becomes clear that you don't really know much about him. Even at the age of 17 he started posting up MATURE MEN whenever he saw the advantage in it. He was already doing it at the age of 17 and as last season progressed he started doing it more and more, calling for the ball in such situations.

So you have a BOY WILLINGLY trying to post up GROWN MEN and you doubt he's going to abuse weaker players in the post once he's also a grown man himself?

Your reasoning/logic seems to be on par with your grammar/spelling. I'm not trying to be a jerk, you should put at least some effort into it, like everyone else.

[pacersGM]

in the last 20 seasons, how many white guys were picked: 1,2, or 3 in the draft?

1- bogut, bargnani
2 - van horn, milicic,
3 - lafrentz, gasol, dunleavy, morrison, kanter

how many of those were white guards, ball handlers? none.
how many of those were above average? gasol, bogut for a year or 2.

doncic with the tools that he has, can be a solid nba player. and a legend in europe if he returns there.
but he cant be a face of a nba franchise in my opinion.

if he is a top 3-5 pick, he will be always seen as underachieving at the nba level.

This is the main mistake most Doncic doubters make: comparing him to players that were never even close to the type of prospect he is. From that list only Gasol fits in a similar category.

Nobody else really showed anything that special. They were either putting up big numbers vs. inferior competition (NCAA), or had major head and/or mental issues (Darko and Bargnani). Most were drafted high because they were tall, agile and could shoot. Nobody came close to having a feel and understanding of the game that Doncic has.

rubio was always praised for his court vision, briliant passes, but do they make him a stand out player in the nba? for shure not, as nobody will give the rains to a player averaging 10 ppg., sorry. and the same genius court vision is attributed to doncic alot. will it be enough at the nba level? highly doubtfull. and to everyone saying he is only 18. well yeah, but he wont evolve into a completely different human beiing in 2-4 years. he wont get much faster, he will get a bit stronger, but his game isnt abusing the opposing weaker player in the post or by speed anyways. so i tip, he is limited in his nba potential in my mind

You're talking as if Rubio is some scrub, total bust. Rubio is an ELITE passer, he's arguably also an elite defender (or at least very good), if he was anywhere close to average as a scorer, he would immediately become an All-Star, even All-NBA.

he wont get much faster, he will get a bit stronger, but his game isnt abusing the opposing weaker player in the post

Here it becomes clear that you don't really know much about him. Even at the age of 17 he started posting up MATURE MEN whenever he saw the advantage in it. He was already doing it at the age of 17 and as last season progressed he started doing it more and more, calling for the ball in such situations.

So you have a BOY WILLINGLY trying to post up GROWN MEN and you doubt he's going to abuse weaker players in the post once he's also a grown man himself?

Your reasoning/logic seems to be on par with your grammar/spelling. I'm not trying to be a jerk, you should put at least some effort into it, like everyone else.

1. how did i make rubio sound like a scrub? thats solely your subjective interpretation of that
2. am i the one attacking you personaly or are you (with the statement i dont put as much effort into fan forum posts as the others since english is not my native tongue, and im shure your spelling should have alot of red in it, as well, but i dont go there) so you are the one attacking on personal level on a topic that can be objective just to a small, very small degree.
3. and your arguments about doncic beeing more nba ready are silly, because you said a bigger court would mean better options for his geniality, but such same statement brings with it the fact that there will be at times 9 other players who are quicker, faster then him on that bigger court with him, wich was never the case on the smaller court in europe.

to summ it up, since you discredited my opinion, i can say the same to you, since none of your statements can be seen as facts, but are just as everything here, just subjective opinions.

and thats ok, since if the nba talent evaluation would be a math thing, a computer would do the picking of players and would never be wrong.

will see how time plays out, and will your assuption be correct that he will also be exceptional and blossom in the nba as a top 5 pick, or will he be mediocre in the nba as i project. thats what you think, and thats what i think so thats fine. i wont go saying you dont have a clue and such, as you just did, but ok. each ones makes the choices for himself

[SportsGuy8]

Am I wrong about Rubio? Increase his scoring/shooting abilities just a bit and he becomes an All-Star caliber player.

3. and your arguments about doncic beeing more nba ready are silly, because you said a bigger court would mean better options for his geniality, but such same statement brings with it the fact that there will be at times 9 other players who are quicker, faster then him on that bigger court with him, wich was never the case on the smaller court in europe.

I also said that quicker, faster athletes go both ways. Having such teammates to pass to also helps players with good vision.

Why did you ignore/misdirect the main argument about his willingness to abuse weaker opponents in the post?

english is not my native tongue

Sorry, but this is not much of an excuse as this is probably true for vast majority of posters in this thread.

You're overreacting, but I'm going to say I'm sorry anyway, it wasn't the right comment to make. I don't want this thread to get derailed because of it ...

[pacersGM]

Am I wrong about Rubio? Increase his scoring/shooting abilities just a bit and he becomes an All-Star caliber player.

3. and your arguments about doncic beeing more nba ready are silly, because you said a bigger court would mean better options for his geniality, but such same statement brings with it the fact that there will be at times 9 other players who are quicker, faster then him on that bigger court with him, wich was never the case on the smaller court in europe.

I also said that quicker, faster athletes go both ways. Having such teammates to pass to also helps players with good vision.

Why did you ignore/misdirect the main argument about his willingness to abuse weaker opponents in the post?

english is not my native tongue

Sorry, but this is not much of an excuse as this is probably true for vast majority of posters in this thread.

You're overreacting, but I'm going to say I'm sorry anyway, it wasn't the right comment to make. I don't want this thread to get derailed because of it ...

the native tongue thing: i realize thats true for most of the posters, but i am not the one picking on just one user, since i also can find errors in your or other posters writtings, but i dont need to point it out since i can read the posts even with the errors made by everyone

i didnt respond to your posting up, abusing smaller players since in the nba thats what people do when they cant beat guys one on one. they go into the post. mj at 40 kobe at 36, wade at 34 ... there were guys who could do that from the pg position, but that was in another era (mark jackson, andre miller, billups) grind and fight era. you wont see teams slowing the game down with a pg posting up. not in 2018 you wont, sorry.

same here, sorry also. i posted once in this thread and got personaly attacked by two already, just by saying my opinion (that he can be a solid nba player or an euroleague legend), and not by negating, putting downs someone elses opinion.

[SportsGuy8]

I'm a "Grammar Nazi", I'm sorry.

i didnt respond to your posting up, abusing smaller players since in the nba thats what people do when they cant beat guys one on one. they go into the post. mj at 40 kobe at 36, wade at 34 ... there were guys who could do that from the pg position, but that was in another era (mark jackson, andre miller, billups) grind and fight era. you wont see teams slowing the game down with a pg posting up. not in 2018 you wont, sorry.

You're misdirecting, changing arguments. That doesn't mean you're wrong, though. Playmakers posting up is definitely not perfect for today's game, but it's still a very nice weapon to have, especially for situations when games slow down (playoffs).

It is possible that the inside-out game makes a comeback, though, just not via centers (except for Magic Jokic). It can still be highly effective, teams just need to increase the amount of threes they take. Both the Warriors (via Draymond Green) and the Cavs (via LeBron) are already taking advantage of it.

[SportsGuy8]

http://www.eurohoops.net/en/euroleague/485347/jackson-nba-way-easier-europe/

Interesting article. With Euroleague teams having almost an NBA-like schedule now, I'm sure that teams are overworking their players. The NBA adapted and severely limited practice hours, but I highly doubt Euroleague teams did that in the first year of such rigorous schedule.

Puts Doncic's late season struggles into context ... He should also be more than prepared for the NBA schedule when his rookie year comes.

[UcanUwill]

yeah, with the way Euroleague schedules now are, they should really take a page from NBA book and lessen the practicing at least. Most NBA players say that the hardest part is traveling, now imagine traveling when a team doesn't even have private plane. Practices are far more demanding, schedule is almost as intense as in the NBA at this point, and games are far more important and intense, since its a number of shorter tournaments, not an 82 game regular season. When a schedule is 82 games, you can lose there are there,meanwhile you lose 1 in Euroleague, you can mess up standings bigtime.
So yeah, NBA gig is not as sweat as it might look, especially when you are American and played in the NBA. If you took NBA for granted, when you out of the league and playing on Euroleague team, you really start appreciating how good NBA life was. Thats why a lot of Americans who came back to NBA after short Euro stint, trashed Europe big time.

[jolbin]

pacersGM, what do u wanna say? is the nba racist?

[pacersGM]

pacersGM, what do u wanna say? is the nba racist?

you are joking right? tell me you are joking?

[jolbin]

why? u are bringing up the race like its part of the reason he cant be drafted top 3

[Mirotic12]

shure, if you say so. no problem. i mentioned race as a factor, because caucasians beeing physically inferior to black athletes in 90%, is a major part of their nba projections. and doncic shure is not in those 10% whos athletic ability matches or tops the black athletes.

i am far from beeing racist, and you perceiving my statement as such surprises me.

and who said i dont like his game? me having an opinion (wich is he could have a solid nba career, or a legend status if he plays the majority of his career in europe) seems to be bothering many here. since i dont think he can be a superstar in the nba is somehow less worth of a opinion then somebody saying he can be a nba superstar? that is unfair to say the least?

You keep saying he will for sure be a "legend" if he stays in EuroLeague...........yeah, because just anyone can do that. Do you have any idea what kind of career and resume a guy needs for that?

Maybe this will help you......................


It's much less likely by percentage for someone to get "legend" status in EuroLeague, than for them to make it in the NBA as a decent player. Yet you are claiming it's the opposite........well it's not though. Like a handful of players, versus dozens upon dozens.......

Your argument doesn't make sense from a simple odds standpoint.

These are the actual odds for any European player:

Less likely to be a legend in Europe, more likely to be a good NBA player.

Yet you keep claiming it's the opposite for Doncic, that somehow of course he will be a legend in EuroLeague, but just so unlikely to have a good career in NBA............

Despite all history of European players proving the opposite by actual mathematics and statistical odds.

yeah, with the way Euroleague schedules now are, they should really take a page from NBA book and lessen the practicing at least. Most NBA players say that the hardest part is traveling, now imagine traveling when a team doesn't even have private plane. Practices are far more demanding, schedule is almost as intense as in the NBA at this point, and games are far more important and intense, since its a number of shorter tournaments, not an 82 game regular season. When a schedule is 82 games, you can lose there are there,meanwhile you lose 1 in Euroleague, you can mess up standings bigtime.
So yeah, NBA gig is not as sweat as it might look, especially when you are American and played in the NBA. If you took NBA for granted, when you out of the league and playing on Euroleague team, you really start appreciating how good NBA life was. Thats why a lot of Americans who came back to NBA after short Euro stint, trashed Europe big time.

From what I understand, most EuroLeague teams are now using their own planes, and the ones that are not, are in the process of doing so.

As far as the practices go, the coaches have changed nothing, except for having to account for the more travel days. So in NBA, you get 82 games, and 1-3 practices a month, and in EuroLeague, you get 70-80+ games (depending on what leagues), and still get about 5 practices a week............so yeah, EuroLeague schedule is more brutal than NBA schedule. Especially when you add in most of the players have to play their national teams.

EuroLeague players have 10 months to spend with their teams, and the ones that play in their national teams, have 11 months of the year to play basketball. That's why FIBA changed the schedule (the real reason). Half of the best players in Europe won't play for their national teams anymore, and most of the best European players started retiring in their late 20s and early 30s.

The issue of the practices in EuroLeague is on the coaches and players though. The players will have to demand less practices, like NBA players did in the past....as it is now only incredibly conditioned guys can play effectively in their 30s now...

Just look at Printezis, he could literally barely walk in the Greek League Finals.