Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion

[bwgood77]

Good read on ESPN.com about how next year with the cap, some free agents might be squeezed because so many teams have overspent or will be up against the cap. So, for the Suns, taking on a Shumpert AND Frye but moving a Dudley or Chandler makes as it keeps the cap open in summer of 2018 as Frye is expiring so no harm done next summer.

Signing Alan Williams to a one year deal was wise because again - why lock up that 6m of cap space next summer.

Signing Alex Len to a one year deal - hopefully he takes the QB - leaves them with the leverage for 2018 in the summer.

Suns may not have a lot of extra space next summer - $10-12m - but that's more than a lot of teams

Yes, that article basically says free agents are hurting this summer because the cap stalled and so many teams overspent last summer, but next summer will be worse and that free agents will likely be hard pressed to get offers and that in the future only stars will get paid. Got me to thinking about how reasonable Warren would likely be next summer. We could probably keep him at a very good price.

The following summer of course would be a big one if we have Kyrie and he doesn't bolt for one of his preferred destinations, because if he will probably command a max and over $30 million a year to start...probably at least a 4 yr/$130 milion or 5/$170 contract (or do people still do 5 year ones?). Then we would also have to sign Booker, and some other team might throw him a max we'd have to match, but who knows? Or we may try and extend him before that to a big deal. So we might get capped out at that point.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20143724/nba-nuclear-winter-forecasted-free-agents-summer-2018

From the video on ESPN:

When was that video from? Len will be lucky to get half that.

[jredsaz]

Gambo update:
- Josh Jackson is not being traded, 2018 Pick highly unlikely to be traded.
- Reiterates sources tell him 0% chance Irving gets traded to Phoenix, not even 1%, specifically 0%.

I don't mind the small ball lineup because we need to figure out if it works before we're a contender. The Miami and GSW teams weren't good rebounders so can we get the same benefits to outweight the costs.

He's right. At this time there's a 0% chance he gets traded here w/o JJ being included but Cleveland's GM said himself it's a "fluid situation". As time goes on things can change.

TBH, I don't think Gilbert trades him unless a Wiggins-caliber package is coming back.

Absolutely. Before the draft it was all about how the Celtics were going to draft Jackson. Gannon was adamant. Then it was Tatum. Then it was absolutely Jackson. Then draft day it was absolutely Tatum. This **** is fluid.

I don't get why Gambo talks in absolutes so often. I think he mimics his sources messages to the t. He isn't bright. Reading between the lines and understanding that there is a motivation behind the access and information he receives is beyond his comprehension.

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[Kerrsed]

All i know is our FO is tight lipped and leaks dont escape.

When a team has info leaked, they try to plug up the holes. Why hasnt Clevelands holes been plugged yet? Because they are the ones leaking this bogus info.

[jredsaz]

All i know is our FO is tight lipped and leaks dont escape.

When a team has info leaked, they try to plug up the holes. Why hasnt Clevelands holes been plugged yet? Because they are the ones leaking this bogus info.

100%. This is all Cleveland manufactured. Look at Windbag. All his info reflects Gambos. And Bickleys for that matter.

The other thing is that it's obvious that if a blue chip asset was on the table the deal would be done. Kyrie could be made to come back but its not what they want at all. Cavs are in a **** position.

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[jredsaz]

Gambo also keeps saying that the Suns 2018 1st is almost completly off the table as well. That might be the piece that ultimately gets the deal done.

What about:

Bledsoe, PHX 1st (2018)

For Irving, Frye

Pick is unprotected in the year they may lose LeBron. They save $$$. Idk if I would do it. Probably would. But Irving was a #1 pick.

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[AtheJ415]

Gambo also keeps saying that the Suns 2018 1st is almost completly off the table as well. That might be the piece that ultimately gets the deal done.

What about:

Bledsoe, PHX 1st (2018)

For Irving, Frye

Pick is unprotected in the year they may lose LeBron. They save $$$. Idk if I would do it. Probably would. But Irving was a #1 pick.

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Hell no. If you are in Phx's situation, you would rather have 1 of Doncic, Porter, Ayton, or Bamba than Kyrie just out of fit and age and salary. Let alone the leverage of the situation. Phoenix doesn't need to up its offer until a better offer comes along. Until then, Phoenix shouldn't be in a rush b/c Cleveland is the time under the gun right now. The longer this drags out the worse it is for them.

[AtheJ415]

He's right. At this time there's a 0% chance he gets traded here w/o JJ being included but Cleveland's GM said himself it's a "fluid situation". As time goes on things can change.

TBH, I don't think Gilbert trades him unless a Wiggins-caliber package is coming back.

I heard Gambo. I think he was a little dramatic. I think there is a chance the Suns get Irving without giving up Jackson. Seems like there is area to negotiate. Suns can make a good offer that other teams can't.

The deal might not go through but I think there is a chance unlike what Gambo said

I think the Suns offerings are trumped IF minnesota is willing to give up Wiggins, and the Heat is willing to send out Winslow, then Cleveland has the coveted blue chip players they are looking for.

I doubt Minnesota would trade Wiggins, but Dragic/Winslow for Kyrie seems like a typical Pat Riley move. Also brings back backcourt '12 (Irving and Waiters).

If they covet Winslow so be it, but he has proven absolutely 0 to justify being called a blue chip prospect.

[i505]

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2017/07/27/the-3-team-dream-trade-for-the-phoenix-suns/

PHX / NYK / CLE 3-way.

Suns in: Porzingis, Ntilikina, Frye, Shumpert, Noah, '19 1st (CLE)

Cavs in: Bledsoe, Chandler, Melo

Knicks in: Kyrie, Chriss, TT, Warren, '18 1st (MIA), '18 Top-5 Protected 1st (PHX)


Suns roll with:

Ulis
Book
JJ
KP
Bender


I like it. Let's do this.

[Jsbath]

I think this is great option
Phx/cavs/Kings

Suns in: fox, koufos,giles.
Suns out : bledsoe, Warren, chriss.

Cavs in: bledsoe, temple, Warren, chriss,con
Cavs out : Irving, shumpert.

Kings in: Irving, shumpert.
Kings out: fox, koufos, giles, temple.

Suns :

Fox, ulis.
Booker, Reed,dj
Jj, dudley, dj
Bender, giles, Peters.
Chandler, Williams, koufos

Great future and players growing at the same time


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[AtheJ415]

I think this is great option
Phx/cavs/Kings

Suns in: fox, koufos,giles.
Suns out : bledsoe, Warren, chriss.

Cavs in: bledsoe, temple, Warren, chriss,con
Cavs out : Irving, shumpert.

Kings in: Irving, shumpert.
Kings out: fox, koufos, giles, temple.

Suns :

Fox, ulis.
Booker, Reed,dj
Jj, dudley, dj
Bender, giles, Peters.
Chandler, Williams, koufos

Great future and players growing at the same time


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

I don't have an issue with going for Fox, but to include Chriss and Bledsoe and take back Koufos is a bit much here. Giles I think the Kings like more than a throw in. I honestly feel like Phx values Chriss more and the Kings value Giles more, so you probably would be more likely to see Bledsoe plus the Miami pick or something like that.

[JoRain]

Yes, that article basically says free agents are hurting this summer because the cap stalled and so many teams overspent last summer, but next summer will be worse and that free agents will likely be hard pressed to get offers and that in the future only stars will get paid. Got me to thinking about how reasonable Warren would likely be next summer. We could probably keep him at a very good price.

The following summer of course would be a big one if we have Kyrie and he doesn't bolt for one of his preferred destinations, because if he will probably command a max and over $30 million a year to start...probably at least a 4 yr/$130 milion or 5/$170 contract (or do people still do 5 year ones?). Then we would also have to sign Booker, and some other team might throw him a max we'd have to match, but who knows? Or we may try and extend him before that to a big deal. So we might get capped out at that point.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20143724/nba-nuclear-winter-forecasted-free-agents-summer-2018

From the video on ESPN:

When was that video from? Len will be lucky to get half that.

Personally, if we get late into offseason without any changes (trades), I would do that - give him 15 mil, on a 1 year deal. We have the money to spend and we want to make agents happy and friendly towards us (helps with future signings of FA's we want), so it could work. Also wouldn't limit us next year.

[Saberestar]

If it is true that the Cavs are not getting good offers for Irving I think that we have to take advantage of that and get him.

I know that we value a lot our 2018 pick, but if we get Irving and we maintain our young core we are gonna be a competitive team, not at the bottom of the league.

So, I would trade our 2018 pick (Top 3 protected for the first two years, and after that unprotected), Bledsoe and Dudley for Irving.

We have the Miami pick too...so we would get another rookie next season. McD is good picking in the teens.

It is not the best time to be greedy, we know that Irving is a perennial All Star in his prime and we have the tools to get him.

[phrazbit]

Kyrie won't be an all-star in the west.

Pure genius.

Steve Nash probably would not make the all star team in the West in today's NBA.

What decade and how will we acquire a player of Kyrie's skill level? I could care less if he is an All Star. I just want this team to get better. I can understand some of the concerns, but we and the Cavaliers are in charge of what happens to him for the next 2 years. We have proven we cannot attract any legit free agents so why not at least try to get him with reasonable resources. If he sucks as bad as a lot or you think, it helps the tank and really does nothing to hurt our future. That is unless you are in love with Bledsoe and want to max him out in two years.

We still do not have a clue who our bigs are going to be going forward. We hope Bender and Chriss pan out, but who really knows. If we stick with Bledsoe, it is either him or the use of another high draft pick to replace him. Next year is suppose to be a big man's draft. It would be a shame to pass on a legit big to bring in another PG.

What this comes down to is who would your rather have going forward: Bledsoe or Kyrie

That is the decision and it has nothing to do with the All Star game.

My line was in response to the idea that Kyrie being an all-star was, along with 2 other all-stars, something that makes us obvious contenders. Which is, in and of itself, a totally bogus notion and... as said... he won't be an all-star anyway.

And not that it matters, but Nash of 2005-2010 would absolutely 100% be an all-star in today's west. Even ignoring his gaudy shooting numbers, the league leader in assists is basically an all-star lock.

As for Kyrie, I've made my opinion plain and it is not about losing Bledsoe, it is that I think Kyrie is fools gold. And there is absolutely risk involved. It is hard to develop players when your offense is being ran through a guy who wants to shot 25 times a game, dribbles the clock away, does nothing to make the lives of his teammates easier and cannot be bothered to make an effort defensively. I think him and Booker would be a terrible pairing and I think we'd be stuck having to choose between them, all the while never escaping being sub mediocre.

Kyrie is a very talented player, I just doubt his talent translates into winning NBA basketball when one of the best players in league history isn't out there next to him making him seem much more efficient and masking his many weaknesses.

[Moochthemonkey]

I heard Gambo. I think he was a little dramatic. I think there is a chance the Suns get Irving without giving up Jackson. Seems like there is area to negotiate. Suns can make a good offer that other teams can't.

The deal might not go through but I think there is a chance unlike what Gambo said

I think the Suns offerings are trumped IF minnesota is willing to give up Wiggins, and the Heat is willing to send out Winslow, then Cleveland has the coveted blue chip players they are looking for.

I doubt Minnesota would trade Wiggins, but Dragic/Winslow for Kyrie seems like a typical Pat Riley move. Also brings back backcourt '12 (Irving and Waiters).

If they covet Winslow so be it, but he has proven absolutely 0 to justify being called a blue chip prospect.

neither has Josh Jackson- 'prospect' is the key word here.

Edit: I checked his stats and I should concede. Don't know why I thought he made the all rookie 1st team. Statistically he certainly holds less value than Warren.

[phrazbit]

Personally, if we get late into offseason without any changes (trades), I would do that - give him 15 mil, on a 1 year deal. We have the money to spend and we want to make agents happy and friendly towards us (helps with future signings of FA's we want), so it could work. Also wouldn't limit us next year.

Why? It sets a salary expectation that is unrealistic. You needlessly give him 15 mil for one year and now, if he isn't great but isn't awful, you've gotta at least get to that level to keep him the following one. Virtually no young player takes a pay cut to stay with the same team.

If it gets late in the offseason, like you say, and he still is unsigned then let him sign the 4.2 million qualifying offer... because it's what the market left him with.

[SlovenianDragon]

I believe the west is so stacked atm even if we got Irving for nothing like literally nothing.... I don't think we are a playoff team. That's why IMO I just want to focus on the rebuild. If we could be the 3rd team in a trade and get some young prospects back I'm down.

I mean you can look at two teams who had a rocky path but are on their way to both make the playoffs...

Philly and the wolves....

It took them awhile but they stayed the course and will both be better than us.

Realistically we cant win now with he stacked west. And I don't want to **** up our future either...

[JoRain]

Personally, if we get late into offseason without any changes (trades), I would do that - give him 15 mil, on a 1 year deal. We have the money to spend and we want to make agents happy and friendly towards us (helps with future signings of FA's we want), so it could work. Also wouldn't limit us next year.

Why? It sets a salary expectation that is unrealistic. You needlessly give him 15 mil for one year and now, if he isn't great but isn't awful, you've gotta at least get to that level to keep him the following one. Virtually no young player takes a pay cut to stay with the same team.

If it gets late in the offseason, like you say, and he still is unsigned then let him sign the 4.2 million qualifying offer... because it's what the market left him with.

mainly, because I don't believe he is in teams long term plans. If we give him money, next year I think he will still be restricted FA and we can decide what to do or not do with him. If we sign him for QO, he'll definitely be unrestricted next year and will most likely leave for nothing. this way he and his agent will at least be happy for a year. Also considering projections regarding next years FA market situation, we'll have even bigger leverage with him.
Besides, as we'll most likely still gonna suck next year, there's good chance we'll draft big next year so if he doesn't improve dramatically, we'll let him go anyway. so at the end of the day, could be just good PR move to give him bigger 1 year deal.

[SlovenianDragon]

I guess my over all point is you don't want to trade any assets until you are in WIN NOW mode. And we are far from it.

Although we are high on prospects like Bender, Chirss, and Jackson we really don't know what we are dealing with yet.

Once you know and have a solid foundation you go in.

We could get better value in the next few years for what we are supposedly offering for Irving now.

Patienceeeeeee

[phrazbit]

Personally, if we get late into offseason without any changes (trades), I would do that - give him 15 mil, on a 1 year deal. We have the money to spend and we want to make agents happy and friendly towards us (helps with future signings of FA's we want), so it could work. Also wouldn't limit us next year.

Why? It sets a salary expectation that is unrealistic. You needlessly give him 15 mil for one year and now, if he isn't great but isn't awful, you've gotta at least get to that level to keep him the following one. Virtually no young player takes a pay cut to stay with the same team.

If it gets late in the offseason, like you say, and he still is unsigned then let him sign the 4.2 million qualifying offer... because it's what the market left him with.

mainly, because I don't believe he is in teams long term plans. If we give him money, next year I think he will still be restricted FA and we can decide what to do or not do with him. If we sign him for QO, he'll definitely be unrestricted next year and will most likely leave for nothing. this way he and his agent will at least be happy for a year. Also considering projections regarding next years FA market situation, we'll have even bigger leverage with him.
Besides, as we'll most likely still gonna suck next year, there's good chance we'll draft big next year so if he doesn't improve dramatically, we'll let him go anyway. so at the end of the day, could be just good PR move to give him bigger 1 year deal.

No, if he signs a one year deal, whether it is the qualifying offer or not, he will be unrestricted next year. Which makes it absolutely in our best interest to sign him to as cheap a deal as possible if we keep him at all. There is the obvious nature of him not wanting to stay for a pay cut and the less obvious way the CBA deals with things like cap holds. If he plays here for ~4 million his cap hold next summer as they decided if they wanted to resign him or not would be like 5 mil, if we signed him for 15 million his cap hold would be like 17 million.

By the way, cap holds are different than restricted free agency. It has to do with negotiating under the cap while players you have rights to (cap exceeding rights (AKA Bird Rights), not free agency restrictions have yet to be retained or walk.

[thamadkant]

If Cavs want Suns 2018 pick then it must have protection, top 5.