Pistons Sign Luis Montero to Two-Way Contract

[Bakuto]

We never try the homerun.

Exactly. Why the f*** we didn't even attempt to get LeBron, Durant, or Steph on a Two-Way Contract completely boggles the mind. BOGGLES THE MIND!

[A_dub06]

We never try the homerun.

Exactly. Why the f*** we didn't even attempt to get LeBron, Durant, or Steph on a Two-Way Contract completely boggles the mind. BOGGLES THE MIND!

This forum is becoming embarrassing, just sit and whine about everything non stop

I think El Chivo has a point, why is it that we don't swing for the fences like last year giving Gary Payton 2 a summer league contract or Jonathon Motley this year? Sure GP2 has flaws and probably won't become an NBA player, and Motley could very well go down the same path but the point remains that both of these guys at least have a 1/100 chance of making the roster instead of the pieces of crap we take that are barely good enough for Europe. Yes, we are talking about the 14th or 15th roster spot, but we also missed out on Yogi Ferrel last year, so there's more validity to the argument than you guys are making out. We don't appear to show any interest in undrafted guys, and we should make he most of every opportunity we can.

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[MotownMadness]

Exactly. Why the f*** we didn't even attempt to get LeBron, Durant, or Steph on a Two-Way Contract completely boggles the mind. BOGGLES THE MIND!

This forum is becoming embarrassing, just sit and whine about everything non stop

I think El Chivo has a point, why is it that we don't swing for the fences like last year giving Gary Payton 2 a summer league contract or Jonathon Motley this year? Sure GP2 has flaws and probably won't become an NBA player, and Motley could very well go down the same path but the point remains that both of these guys at least have a 1/100 chance of making the roster instead of the pieces of crap we take that are barely good enough for Europe. Yes, we are talking about the 14th or 15th roster spot, but we also missed out on Yogi Ferrel last year, so there's more validity to the argument than you guys are making out. We don't appear to show any interest in undrafted guys, and we should make he most of every opportunity we can.

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Right because people here wouldn't have cried if we were the one to pick up Yogi before hindsight as well.

[A_dub06]

This forum is becoming embarrassing, just sit and whine about everything non stop

I think El Chivo has a point, why is it that we don't swing for the fences like last year giving Gary Payton 2 a summer league contract or Jonathon Motley this year? Sure GP2 has flaws and probably won't become an NBA player, and Motley could very well go down the same path but the point remains that both of these guys at least have a 1/100 chance of making the roster instead of the pieces of crap we take that are barely good enough for Europe. Yes, we are talking about the 14th or 15th roster spot, but we also missed out on Yogi Ferrel last year, so there's more validity to the argument than you guys are making out. We don't appear to show any interest in undrafted guys, and we should make he most of every opportunity we can.

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Right because people here wouldn't have cried if we were the one to pick up Yogi before hindsight as well.

Dude I'm not crying that we missed out, you evidently didn't understand what I was saying. I was using him as an example that there is still NBA quality players that go undrafted and instead of making an effort to go for guys that slipped out of the 2nd, we go for unknown junk that never become anything, which is no different to pretty much all of Van Bowers 2nd round picks


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[MotownMadness]

I think El Chivo has a point, why is it that we don't swing for the fences like last year giving Gary Payton 2 a summer league contract or Jonathon Motley this year? Sure GP2 has flaws and probably won't become an NBA player, and Motley could very well go down the same path but the point remains that both of these guys at least have a 1/100 chance of making the roster instead of the pieces of crap we take that are barely good enough for Europe. Yes, we are talking about the 14th or 15th roster spot, but we also missed out on Yogi Ferrel last year, so there's more validity to the argument than you guys are making out. We don't appear to show any interest in undrafted guys, and we should make he most of every opportunity we can.

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Right because people here wouldn't have cried if we were the one to pick up Yogi before hindsight as well.

Dude I'm not crying that we missed out, you evidently didn't understand what I was saying. I was using him as an example that there is still NBA quality players that go undrafted and instead of making an effort to go for guys that slipped out of the 2nd, we go for unknown junk that never become anything, which is no different to pretty much all of Van Bowers 2nd round picks


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Gotcha man, I'm just talking more in general I guess around here and not so much just your post.

[BadMofoPimp]

What is the percentage of 2nd rounders who do stick in the NBA?

[A_dub06]

What is the percentage of 2nd rounders who do stick in the NBA?

I can't remember the actual figure from the study that was conducted but it was really low. Regardless of the small percentage, it doesn't mean that teams should treat the 2nd round like garbage and they should definitely still pay their due diligence. If teams are failing in their ability to assess players or showing a complete lack of care, they should be criticised for doing so. Heck we took Middleton in the 2nd, buried him and then traded him for nothing. That experience was enough to teach me the 2nd round still counts.


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[El Chivo]

We never try the homerun.

Exactly. Why the f*** we didn't even attempt to get LeBron, Durant, or Steph on a Two-Way Contract completely boggles the mind. BOGGLES THE MIND!

Miami stole Whiteside from the garbage, for example.

[Pharaoh]

I think El Chivo has a point, why is it that we don't swing for the fences like last year giving Gary Payton 2 a summer league contract or Jonathon Motley this year? Sure GP2 has flaws and probably won't become an NBA player, and Motley could very well go down the same path but the point remains that both of these guys at least have a 1/100 chance of making the roster instead of the pieces of crap we take that are barely good enough for Europe. Yes, we are talking about the 14th or 15th roster spot, but we also missed out on Yogi Ferrel last year, so there's more validity to the argument than you guys are making out. We don't appear to show any interest in undrafted guys, and we should make he most of every opportunity we can.

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Right because people here wouldn't have cried if we were the one to pick up Yogi before hindsight as well.

Dude I'm not crying that we missed out, you evidently didn't understand what I was saying. I was using him as an example that there is still NBA quality players that go undrafted and instead of making an effort to go for guys that slipped out of the 2nd, we go for unknown junk that never become anything, which is no different to pretty much all of Van Bowers 2nd round picks


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I believe we "miss out" on the Yogi kind of guys because:

They'll never play here!

We've had a top 10 Lotto pick struggle to get 26 minutes every night the last TWO years.

We had a top 20 pick barely play last season.

The guys we do pick in the second round rarely play too.

If you were Yogi or a guy like him would you sign here?

Any guard worth anything would have looked at our roster, seen RJ, Ish, KCP, Hilliard, Benji, Bullock & SJ on it and said "No thanks"

Any forward that thought he could catch on in the league would have looked at our roster, seen Jon, Tobias, Mook, Henry, SJ & Bullock on it and said "No thanks"

If Yogi had come here he would of been another kid with no playing time and we'd be asking why we sign these useless players who never break out!

If you're a dude like Yogi you sign with a team where you can at least see a chance at playing time. That's not here.

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[A_dub06]

Right because people here wouldn't have cried if we were the one to pick up Yogi before hindsight as well.

Dude I'm not crying that we missed out, you evidently didn't understand what I was saying. I was using him as an example that there is still NBA quality players that go undrafted and instead of making an effort to go for guys that slipped out of the 2nd, we go for unknown junk that never become anything, which is no different to pretty much all of Van Bowers 2nd round picks


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I believe we "miss out" on the Yogi kind of guys because:

They'll never play here!

We've had a top 10 Lotto pick struggle to get 26 minutes every night the last TWO years.

We had a top 20 pick barely play last season.

The guys we do pick in the second round rarely play too.

If you were Yogi or a guy like him would you sign here?

Any guard worth anything would have looked at our roster, seen RJ, Ish, KCP, Hilliard, Benji, Bullock & SJ on it and said "No thanks"

Any forward that thought he could catch on in the league would have looked at our roster, seen Jon, Tobias, Mook, Henry, SJ & Bullock on it and said "No thanks"

If Yogi had come here he would of been another kid with no playing time and we'd be asking why we sign these useless players who never break out!

If you're a dude like Yogi you sign with a team where you can at least see a chance at playing time. That's not here.

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To the bold: So you're telling me that young guys won't come here because we refuse to develop players, wont play them on their merits and actually give them court time? That's a massive problem and something that needs to be rectified.

Yogi is a pg and chose Dallas who at the time had Deron Williams, Seth Curry, JJ Barea and Devin Harris. The situation wasn't really that much clearer there than here, plus Reggie was known to be injured at the time which would make our situation more favourable in the short-term but of course SVG doesn't develop talent which would be a major sticking point for any young guy. This is a problem within our franchise, we need all the talent we can get and a coach who's actually willing to see what we have within certain guys and cut/trade those that don't have it.

[Pharaoh]

Dude I'm not crying that we missed out, you evidently didn't understand what I was saying. I was using him as an example that there is still NBA quality players that go undrafted and instead of making an effort to go for guys that slipped out of the 2nd, we go for unknown junk that never become anything, which is no different to pretty much all of Van Bowers 2nd round picks


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I believe we "miss out" on the Yogi kind of guys because:

They'll never play here!

We've had a top 10 Lotto pick struggle to get 26 minutes every night the last TWO years.

We had a top 20 pick barely play last season.

The guys we do pick in the second round rarely play too.

If you were Yogi or a guy like him would you sign here?

Any guard worth anything would have looked at our roster, seen RJ, Ish, KCP, Hilliard, Benji, Bullock & SJ on it and said "No thanks"

Any forward that thought he could catch on in the league would have looked at our roster, seen Jon, Tobias, Mook, Henry, SJ & Bullock on it and said "No thanks"

If Yogi had come here he would of been another kid with no playing time and we'd be asking why we sign these useless players who never break out!

If you're a dude like Yogi you sign with a team where you can at least see a chance at playing time. That's not here.

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

To the bold: So you're telling me that young guys won't come here because we refuse to develop players, wont play them on their merits and actually give them court time? That's a massive problem and something that needs to be rectified.

Yogi is a pg and chose Dallas who at the time had Deron Williams, Seth Curry, JJ Barea and Devin Harris. The situation wasn't really that much clearer there than here, plus Reggie was known to be injured at the time which would make our situation more favourable in the short-term but of course SVG doesn't develop talent which would be a major sticking point for any young guy. This is a problem within our franchise, we need all the talent we can get and a coach who's actually willing to see what we have within certain guys and cut/trade those that don't have it.

I don't know exactly when Yogi was signed but:

Deron is a known injury prone player and was a trade/buyout candidate

Harris is cannon fodder and so is JJ

Seth, JJ & Harris can all play some SG.

We had:

RJ injured for 4-6 weeks

Just signed Ish Smith that off-season

Benji was our 2nd rounder

Little Ray was hanging around and his Dad is buddy buddy with SVG

So it apoears from the outside looking in that IF we were gonna play a completely unproven guy it would have been Benji or Little Ray.

Do players & agents believe we don't develop young talent? Sure, maybe.

Do players & agents believe we don't play guys on their merits? I seriously doubt that.

Agents want to get their guys paid and/or on a team that is likely to play them/keep them for the season.

Obviously Dallas agreed to do that with Yogi.

Make no mistake: if he signed here he becomes another guy you would point to as a wasted roster spot or opportunity because he wasn't gonna play - Benji is the example

People claim we don't go for the home run...here's the argument against that:

SJ over Winslow - we took a guy who had played FOUR positions over the previous 5 years as opposed to the consensus pick.

Assuming Captain Hindsight claims Booker was the potential "home run" - the knock on him was that he was a shooter who couldn't create his own shot or play D!

We also had KCP as the SG and absolutely no one at SF - so IF SVG & the FO had Booker & SJ on the same tier it's no surprise they took SJ over him

So taking a dude that was built like a tank, that had won a lot, had played 4 positions? Combined with his mentality? The trajectory on him was insane!

King Henry was a home run selection too - we never worked him out cause he was supposed to go in the late Lotto! Big guy, can shoot it, put it on the floor, young as can be...again the trajectory on him is through the roof once he gets stronger and can handle the defensive end enough

People love to say SVG plays it safe: there's not a dude on the roster other than AB that you can say was a safe option when he was acquired:

Bobo - big risk - never played real minutes

Jon - big risk - never been relied on as much as we relied on him

Marcus - massive red flags on his character and game

RJ - massive red flags on attitude considering he was on a winning team

Tobias - he's the Chauncey Billups story all over again! Bouncing from team to team and punted because he's not "enough"

Ish - outside of Philly he's never really done much

The glass ain't half empty! It's half full

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[Billl]

Meh - As far as these 2 way players go, there are basically only 2 types of guys you can get.

1) Guys who went undrafted. ie every gm in the league didn't consider them a good enough project to use a 2nd rounder on. It's certainly possible to find talent, but there is usually a reason guys with some recognizable upside go undrafted - usually character issues. The undrafted guys without big red flags are generally upperclassmen with good work ethics but limited NBA potential.

2) Guys who were 2nd rounders in the prior 2 years. ie guys who washed out on their first stop bad enough that nobody is offering a roster spot. A lot of the success of second rounders is about fit, so one team's trash may turn into another's treasure.

[davidvolumes]

Looked at quite a few highlight videos of Montero. The guy can play. 40 plus percentage shooter from the 3 pt line. A Patty Mills type shooter with Shawn Livingston size. Seems to play under control. I like the pick up.

[The Penguin]

Dude I'm not crying that we missed out, you evidently didn't understand what I was saying. I was using him as an example that there is still NBA quality players that go undrafted and instead of making an effort to go for guys that slipped out of the 2nd, we go for unknown junk that never become anything, which is no different to pretty much all of Van Bowers 2nd round picks


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I believe we "miss out" on the Yogi kind of guys because:

They'll never play here!

We've had a top 10 Lotto pick struggle to get 26 minutes every night the last TWO years.

We had a top 20 pick barely play last season.

The guys we do pick in the second round rarely play too.

If you were Yogi or a guy like him would you sign here?

Any guard worth anything would have looked at our roster, seen RJ, Ish, KCP, Hilliard, Benji, Bullock & SJ on it and said "No thanks"

Any forward that thought he could catch on in the league would have looked at our roster, seen Jon, Tobias, Mook, Henry, SJ & Bullock on it and said "No thanks"

If Yogi had come here he would of been another kid with no playing time and we'd be asking why we sign these useless players who never break out!

If you're a dude like Yogi you sign with a team where you can at least see a chance at playing time. That's not here.

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

To the bold: So you're telling me that young guys won't come here because we refuse to develop players, wont play them on their merits and actually give them court time? That's a massive problem and something that needs to be rectified.

Yogi is a pg and chose Dallas who at the time had Deron Williams, Seth Curry, JJ Barea and Devin Harris. The situation wasn't really that much clearer there than here, plus Reggie was known to be injured at the time which would make our situation more favourable in the short-term but of course SVG doesn't develop talent which would be a major sticking point for any young guy. This is a problem within our franchise, we need all the talent we can get and a coach who's actually willing to see what we have within certain guys and cut/trade those that don't have it.

Simply put it doesn't seem the organizational focus is on finding and developing young players. In fairness, there's a great deal of infrastructure being built, the roster that was inherited by Van Brower was a complete mess, but at the same time things can change quickly in the league. Miami is the best in the league at developing diamonds in the rough, everyone knows it, so they get to pick from better "material" to start with, but they've also earned that reputation. When we aren't turning guys picked in the teens or higher into solid rotation players, it's too much to expect to turn guys picked after ~45 into something.