Kyrie Irving wants to be traded!

[Bohemian]

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[Bohemian]

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[CelticsLV]

IT carried us to several regular season wins, and a couple in the playoffs too. We were highly dependent on his scoring, no question. But like I said, that was also largely an issue of roster construction. Don't kid yourself, we would have taken just as big a hit last year without Horford. Probably .500 at best without either of those guys.

And yes, it was more of a team effort than people give credit for. Coaching had a lot to do with it as well. Not delusional at all to point out that during the playoffs (aka the real games), Avery Bradley was our best player and Horford was at least as good as IT.

More to the point, going forward in this highly unlikely scenario, we'd have a team with Irving and Hayward. Scoring would not be a problem.

Come on man. IT without Horford took us to a 48 win season. You think Bradley was better than IT? What are you smoking? No team gears up to stop Bradley. In fact, the reason he was able to have a career high scoring because IT was getting double and triple teamed while Bradley was getting wide open shots. Just because Marcus Smart can't make those, doesn't mean Bradley is like Curry or anything. If Bradley was so good, why was he cast aside without hesitation to create cap space for Hayward and not IT, who will command much higher salary next year.

How much more trash can you give just to knock IT? This team was pile of trash before IT got here. And in that pile was Bradley.

Apologies if English is not your first language, but that's not an accurate representation of the basic points I am making here.

For instance, I am saying that Avery Bradley was our best player in the playoffs last year. I don't feel like this is some kind of hot take. It happened. I saw it. We all did.

I am also saying that we would have probably gone .500 at best without either of IT or Horford last year. Considering that we were 7-7 without Horford last season, I don't think that is much of a stretch. In both cases, it was because, unlike Bradley, we lacked anyone else who could approximate their contributions (scoring in IT's case, interior defense in Horford's).

What is really happening here is that you are a huge IT fanboy who is suuuuuper sensitive about his height for some reason. I'm not hating on IT. You are hating on the rest of our team, and Irving too. You are allowed to have any take on this subject that you want, but chill out with the lashing out at anyone who is even entertaining the prospect of trading for Irving (which is never going to happen btw).

Bradley had a good series against Bulls but against Wizards IT was on whole other level. He put up 27PPG on 60+TS% and 46 from three and also 7 assists. Bradley was back to his usual meh efficiency and overrated defense because Wall and Beal lighted us up like a christmas tree. Saying that Bradley was our best player throughout the playoffs isn't close to 100% fact. That's a huge reach by you.

[jfs1000d]

I want everyone to consider this...

IT isn't good on D and is 5-8.

The truth is, he doesn't damage us that much It isn't fatal, it isn't something we cant manage and it isn't something that loses us games.

Defensively, he provides enough resistance that he isn't pushover.

[Baller1234a]

CLE receives salary out: 37,939,227 salary in: 24,449,048
Eric Bledsoe
Jae Crowder
TJ Warren
2018 PHO 1st (Top 3 to 8 protected '18 max of what I would expect, unprotected '19)

BOS receives salary out: 6,796,117 salary in: 3,073,800
Marquese Chriss

PHO salary out: 30,726,731 or 33,726,731 salary in: 35,040,632
Kyrie Irving (w full trade kicker)
Iman Shumpert
Kay Felder
2018 BOS 1st
2018 BOS 2nd

[Captain_Caveman]

Nah i dont agree. Yes the team and brad have some effect but again you guys are in deep water treading right now....fighting for air...phoning a friend...calling for a lifeline on this topic.

The struggle is real

That's not what is happening here. The irony is that no one is even criticizing IT right now.

Once again, his overly sentimental fanboys are lashing out at anyone and anything short of hero worship.

So over it.

17 titles, 0 scoring champions.

Youre blatantly attacking IT which is comical and what does 0 scoring champions have to do with anything?

How am I attacking IT?

By considering a trade for Kyrie that would involve him?

By pointing out that our team's level of success last year was more of a well-coached, team-based thing than many give it credit for?

By (correctly) pointing out that Bradley was our best player in the playoffs last year?

By saying we'd have been .500 at best without either IT or Horford last year?

So **** tedious when you can't even have grown-up conversations about the guy without triggering all the short guys on here.

[tombattor]

IT carried us to several regular season wins, and a couple in the playoffs too. We were highly dependent on his scoring, no question. But like I said, that was also largely an issue of roster construction. Don't kid yourself, we would have taken just as big a hit last year without Horford. Probably .500 at best without either of those guys.

And yes, it was more of a team effort than people give credit for. Coaching had a lot to do with it as well. Not delusional at all to point out that during the playoffs (aka the real games), Avery Bradley was our best player and Horford was at least as good as IT.

More to the point, going forward in this highly unlikely scenario, we'd have a team with Irving and Hayward. Scoring would not be a problem.

Come on man. IT without Horford took us to a 48 win season. You think Bradley was better than IT? What are you smoking? No team gears up to stop Bradley. In fact, the reason he was able to have a career high scoring because IT was getting double and triple teamed while Bradley was getting wide open shots. Just because Marcus Smart can't make those, doesn't mean Bradley is like Curry or anything. If Bradley was so good, why was he cast aside without hesitation to create cap space for Hayward and not IT, who will command much higher salary next year.

How much more trash can you give just to knock IT? This team was pile of trash before IT got here. And in that pile was Bradley.

Apologies if English is not your first language, but that's not an accurate representation of the basic points I am making here.

For instance, I am saying that Avery Bradley was our best player in the playoffs last year. I don't feel like this is some kind of hot take. It happened. I saw it. We all did.

I am also saying that we would have probably gone .500 at best without either of IT or Horford last year. Considering that we were 7-7 without Horford last season, I don't think that is much of a stretch. In both cases, it was because, unlike Bradley, we lacked anyone else who could approximate their contributions (scoring in IT's case, interior defense in Horford's).

What is really happening here is that you are a huge IT fanboy who is suuuuuper sensitive about his height for some reason. I'm not hating on IT. You are hating on the rest of our team, and Irving too. You are allowed to have any take on this subject that you want, but chill out with the lashing out at anyone who is even entertaining the prospect of trading for Irving (which is never going to happen btw).

That's one way to twist it. Or another way to see it is that you just can't accept our best player being a 5'9" guy, which is not traditionally an ideal height for an NBA player, so you choose to ignore everything IT's done since being here. Who cares if we won 25 games before he got here, right? Who cares if we won 48 games without Horford last year? He doesn't get it done in real games...

I don't hate Kyrie. Far from it. I actually want the Knicks (my hometown team and my 2nd favorite team) to get him, so it'll be exciting for them. I'm just not a fan of the Celtics just throwing IT away – because his height is not-ideal for an NBA superstar – for a guy who may be as good as him and making the Cavs better. I don't discriminate players based on their height. If he gets it done, he gets it done.

And the fact that you're trying to tell me that Avery Bradley (who I admit had a fantastic playoffs) was better than IT, even in the playoffs, shows me your lack of understanding. Bradley overachieved based on our expectation of him and IT underachieved relative to his much higher expectation. You understand that concept, right? I mean, I assume English is your first language.

And I am an IT fan boy. Why wouldn't I be? I'm a Celtics fan and he made us exponentially better since coming over from Phoenix. I don't understand why you hate him so much. AB was better than IT in the playoffs? Please.

[tombattor]

There are a couple of issues here, first off, his sister's passing basically makes him immune to any real on court criticism last post season. Since arriving here, in the post season, he has basically been mediocre relative to his regular season talent level. I actually predicted that would change last year but then the tragedy occurred.

Then there are the injuries. Yes, everyone is injured in the post season, but NOT everyone has to go through ten hour dental surgery. Absurd he played after that.

So if you were to ask me honestly what my thoughts on playoff IT are, I'd have to say they are simultaneously disappointing and understandable. This past playoffs was his chance to break out imo and it was unfairly snatched from him along with Chyna's life.

Playoff Thomas is an enigma to me.

He's had his issues with his family tragedy. Also some injuries that limited his effectiveness in the playoffs. But other issue was that we had no one else on the team capable of creating any offense. IT's presence alone opens things up for everyone on the team. That goes in the postseason too. Even Bradley benefitted tremendously from IT's presence, even when he wasn't all there due to his sister's death and some injuries.

Saying stuff like IT was only good in the regular season and not real games in the playoffs is not really seeing the big picture. Who do you think is the person most responsible for our recent upswing from being in the gutter? It's IT.

It's helpful to remember that the owners, the GM, the coach, the teammates, the majority of other NBA players and most Celtics fans agree with you. IT is appreciated by those that matter.

I hope you're right about that.

[tombattor]

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Don't put up stuff like that. You'll be attacked for being a hero worship fan boy by realists. Some pathetic fools on this board.

[tombattor]

Come on man. IT without Horford took us to a 48 win season. You think Bradley was better than IT? What are you smoking? No team gears up to stop Bradley. In fact, the reason he was able to have a career high scoring because IT was getting double and triple teamed while Bradley was getting wide open shots. Just because Marcus Smart can't make those, doesn't mean Bradley is like Curry or anything. If Bradley was so good, why was he cast aside without hesitation to create cap space for Hayward and not IT, who will command much higher salary next year.

How much more trash can you give just to knock IT? This team was pile of trash before IT got here. And in that pile was Bradley.

Apologies if English is not your first language, but that's not an accurate representation of the basic points I am making here.

For instance, I am saying that Avery Bradley was our best player in the playoffs last year. I don't feel like this is some kind of hot take. It happened. I saw it. We all did.

I am also saying that we would have probably gone .500 at best without either of IT or Horford last year. Considering that we were 7-7 without Horford last season, I don't think that is much of a stretch. In both cases, it was because, unlike Bradley, we lacked anyone else who could approximate their contributions (scoring in IT's case, interior defense in Horford's).

What is really happening here is that you are a huge IT fanboy who is suuuuuper sensitive about his height for some reason. I'm not hating on IT. You are hating on the rest of our team, and Irving too. You are allowed to have any take on this subject that you want, but chill out with the lashing out at anyone who is even entertaining the prospect of trading for Irving (which is never going to happen btw).

Bradley had a good series against Bulls but against Wizards IT was on whole other level. He put up 27PPG on 60+TS% and 46 from three and also 7 assists. Bradley was back to his usual meh efficiency and overrated defense because Wall and Beal lighted us up like a christmas tree. Saying that Bradley was our best player throughout the playoffs isn't close to 100% fact. That's a huge reach by you.

Seriously. If Bradley scores 20, then people will love him for stepping up. Meanwhile if IT scores 20, he'll be torched for choking in the playoffs. There are different expectations on those 2 players. It's just sad that some people fail to see such an obvious concept.

[KGboss]

That's not what is happening here. The irony is that no one is even criticizing IT right now.

Once again, his overly sentimental fanboys are lashing out at anyone and anything short of hero worship.

So over it.

17 titles, 0 scoring champions.

Youre blatantly attacking IT which is comical and what does 0 scoring champions have to do with anything?

How am I attacking IT?

By considering a trade for Kyrie that would involve him?

By pointing out that our team's level of success last year was more of a well-coached, team-based thing than many give it credit for?

By (correctly) pointing out that Bradley was our best player in the playoffs last year?

By saying we'd have been .500 at best without either IT or Horford last year?

So **** tedious when you can't even have grown-up conversations about the guy without triggering all the short guys on here.

Im far from short but im not going to sell him shorter than he already is.

You overrate Bradley and underrate Thomas. This is the conversation.

You feel youre correct i dont agree, but because i dont agree, im childish?

Never change Cave....never change.

[Captain_Caveman]

Come on man. IT without Horford took us to a 48 win season. You think Bradley was better than IT? What are you smoking? No team gears up to stop Bradley. In fact, the reason he was able to have a career high scoring because IT was getting double and triple teamed while Bradley was getting wide open shots. Just because Marcus Smart can't make those, doesn't mean Bradley is like Curry or anything. If Bradley was so good, why was he cast aside without hesitation to create cap space for Hayward and not IT, who will command much higher salary next year.

How much more trash can you give just to knock IT? This team was pile of trash before IT got here. And in that pile was Bradley.

Apologies if English is not your first language, but that's not an accurate representation of the basic points I am making here.

For instance, I am saying that Avery Bradley was our best player in the playoffs last year. I don't feel like this is some kind of hot take. It happened. I saw it. We all did.

I am also saying that we would have probably gone .500 at best without either of IT or Horford last year. Considering that we were 7-7 without Horford last season, I don't think that is much of a stretch. In both cases, it was because, unlike Bradley, we lacked anyone else who could approximate their contributions (scoring in IT's case, interior defense in Horford's).

What is really happening here is that you are a huge IT fanboy who is suuuuuper sensitive about his height for some reason. I'm not hating on IT. You are hating on the rest of our team, and Irving too. You are allowed to have any take on this subject that you want, but chill out with the lashing out at anyone who is even entertaining the prospect of trading for Irving (which is never going to happen btw).

Bradley had a good series against Bulls but against Wizards IT was on whole other level. He put up 27PPG on 60+TS% and 46 from three and also 7 assists. Bradley was back to his usual meh efficiency and overrated defense because Wall and Beal lighted us up like a christmas tree. Saying that Bradley was our best player throughout the playoffs isn't close to 100% fact. That's a huge reach by you.

Citing his averages vs the Wiz is kind of misleading, as is placing the defensive blame solely on Avery.

We all know what happened with his sister, but IT was up and down all playoffs long. In addition to getting brutalized in Game 2 vs Chicago, IT was straight up terrible in all 3 of the games in DC. Avery was a better and more consistent two-way player who carried us in a lot of big games through both his scoring and shutting down elite opponents.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02/gamelog/2017

[tombattor]

That's not what is happening here. The irony is that no one is even criticizing IT right now.

Once again, his overly sentimental fanboys are lashing out at anyone and anything short of hero worship.

So over it.

17 titles, 0 scoring champions.

Youre blatantly attacking IT which is comical and what does 0 scoring champions have to do with anything?

How am I attacking IT?

By considering a trade for Kyrie that would involve him?

By pointing out that our team's level of success last year was more of a well-coached, team-based thing than many give it credit for?

By (correctly) pointing out that Bradley was our best player in the playoffs last year?

By saying we'd have been .500 at best without either IT or Horford last year?

So **** tedious when you can't even have grown-up conversations about the guy without triggering all the short guys on here.

First, you question whether English is my first language.

Now it's because we're shorties.

Little by little, you're resorting to attempting personal attacks because you're unable to convey your thoughts intelligently enough.

What if I was foreign born and short? Does that make my points less valid? Prejudice and intolerance is something to be embarrassed about. Not something to flaunt like you are.

And you say we can't have grown-up conversations...

[Captain_Caveman]

Youre blatantly attacking IT which is comical and what does 0 scoring champions have to do with anything?

How am I attacking IT?

By considering a trade for Kyrie that would involve him?

By pointing out that our team's level of success last year was more of a well-coached, team-based thing than many give it credit for?

By (correctly) pointing out that Bradley was our best player in the playoffs last year?

By saying we'd have been .500 at best without either IT or Horford last year?

So **** tedious when you can't even have grown-up conversations about the guy without triggering all the short guys on here.

Im far from short but im not going to sell him shorter than he already is.

You overrate Bradley and underrate Thomas. This is the conversation.

You feel youre correct i dont agree, but because i dont agree, im childish?

Never change Cave....never change.

Let's recap. Who started in with the patronizing BS, me or you?

Don't go in on people with passive-aggressive mocking and then blame then for going back at you.

Again, not even hating on IT here. I think Bradley was better in the playoffs. I think Horford was as important to our win-loss record. I think Stevens is a hell of a coach, and that Kyrie is more likely to be a better player over the next 5-6 years.

And no, I do not include a top 3 pick with IT in a trade for the guy.

[OFWGKTA]

Apologies if English is not your first language, but that's not an accurate representation of the basic points I am making here.

For instance, I am saying that Avery Bradley was our best player in the playoffs last year. I don't feel like this is some kind of hot take. It happened. I saw it. We all did.

I am also saying that we would have probably gone .500 at best without either of IT or Horford last year. Considering that we were 7-7 without Horford last season, I don't think that is much of a stretch. In both cases, it was because, unlike Bradley, we lacked anyone else who could approximate their contributions (scoring in IT's case, interior defense in Horford's).

What is really happening here is that you are a huge IT fanboy who is suuuuuper sensitive about his height for some reason. I'm not hating on IT. You are hating on the rest of our team, and Irving too. You are allowed to have any take on this subject that you want, but chill out with the lashing out at anyone who is even entertaining the prospect of trading for Irving (which is never going to happen btw).

Bradley had a good series against Bulls but against Wizards IT was on whole other level. He put up 27PPG on 60+TS% and 46 from three and also 7 assists. Bradley was back to his usual meh efficiency and overrated defense because Wall and Beal lighted us up like a christmas tree. Saying that Bradley was our best player throughout the playoffs isn't close to 100% fact. That's a huge reach by you.

Citing his averages vs the Wiz is kind of misleading, as is placing the defensive blame solely on Avery.

We all know what happened with his sister, but IT was up and down all playoffs long. In addition to getting brutalized in Game 2 vs Chicago, IT was straight up terrible in all 3 of the games in DC. Avery was a better and more consistent two-way player who carried us in a lot of big games through both his scoring and shutting down elite opponents.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02/gamelog/2017

IT playoffs minus last half game: 24.8/6.7/3.1 57.3% TS

Irving: 25.9/5.3/2.8 57.3% TS


Irving scored under 20 4 times in the playoffs, IT 6, but IT had 9+ assists in 3 of those games (most Irving had was 7).

[Disinformation]

This thread:

[Captain_Caveman]

Youre blatantly attacking IT which is comical and what does 0 scoring champions have to do with anything?

How am I attacking IT?

By considering a trade for Kyrie that would involve him?

By pointing out that our team's level of success last year was more of a well-coached, team-based thing than many give it credit for?

By (correctly) pointing out that Bradley was our best player in the playoffs last year?

By saying we'd have been .500 at best without either IT or Horford last year?

So **** tedious when you can't even have grown-up conversations about the guy without triggering all the short guys on here.

First, you question whether English is my first language.

Now it's because we're shorties.

Little by little, you're resorting to attempting personal attacks because you're unable to convey your thoughts intelligently enough.

What if I was foreign born and short? Does that make my points less valid? Prejudice and intolerance is something to be embarrassed about. Not something to flaunt like you are.

And you say we can't have grown-up conversations...

If you aren't struggling with the language here, then you are being willfully obtuse. I said, clearly, that Bradley was better in the playoffs last year. You are distorting that to claim that I am saying Bradley was our team's best player.

Whatever. I feel like I am talking to you guys like you deserve to be spoken to. Have watched you in here all week being completely dismissive of people's opinions, right up to the point where you are calling anyone with long-term concerns about IT's hip injury delusional and a hater of short people.

Say what?

[Marvel]

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Don't put up stuff like that. You'll be attacked for being a hero worship fan boy by realists. Some pathetic fools on this board.

And short.

[tombattor]

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Don't put up stuff like that. You'll be attacked for being a hero worship fan boy by realists. Some pathetic fools on this board.

And short.

And can't speak English.

[Captain_Caveman]

Bradley had a good series against Bulls but against Wizards IT was on whole other level. He put up 27PPG on 60+TS% and 46 from three and also 7 assists. Bradley was back to his usual meh efficiency and overrated defense because Wall and Beal lighted us up like a christmas tree. Saying that Bradley was our best player throughout the playoffs isn't close to 100% fact. That's a huge reach by you.

Citing his averages vs the Wiz is kind of misleading, as is placing the defensive blame solely on Avery.

We all know what happened with his sister, but IT was up and down all playoffs long. In addition to getting brutalized in Game 2 vs Chicago, IT was straight up terrible in all 3 of the games in DC. Avery was a better and more consistent two-way player who carried us in a lot of big games through both his scoring and shutting down elite opponents.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02/gamelog/2017

IT playoffs minus last half game: 24.8/6.7/3.1 57.3% TS

Irving: 25.9/5.3/2.8 57.3% TS


Irving scored under 20 4 times in the playoffs, IT 6, but IT had 9+ assists in 3 of those games (most Irving had was 7).

Again, no hate to IT, but saying implying he has been comparable to Kyrie in the playoffs is not a credible argument.

Irving's team has gone 36-5 in the Eastern playoffs the last three years, including 8-1 vs Boston. Been to 3 straight Finals and won a title by hitting the biggest shot in NBA history. Ripped our souls out of our body in Game 4 of the ECFs by going electric with the game on the line.

He's a good player.