Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion

[BobbieL]

I put this on the trade board. What you guys think?

Cleveland trades: Kyrie/Frye/Shump
Cleveland recieves: Bledsoe/Chandler/Barton/Miami pick/Denver pick

Denver trades: Barton/Murray/Chandler/Denver 2018 pick
Denver recieves: Kyrie/Warren

Suns trade: Bledsoe/Warren/Miami pick
Suns recieve: Murray/Shump/Frye

I had a similar trade a couple pages earlier - think I had the suns getting Nelson or maybe Shumpert

For Jamal Murray - you are giving up Bledsoe, Warren , Chandler and the Heat pick - that might be a bit much. Pull back Warren. And if I gave up that much for Murray, it was too much too

[ATTL]

I put this on the trade board. What you guys think?

Cleveland trades: Kyrie/Frye/Shump
Cleveland recieves: Bledsoe/Chandler/Barton/Miami pick/Denver pick

Denver trades: Barton/Murray/Chandler/Denver 2018 pick
Denver recieves: Kyrie/Warren

Suns trade: Bledsoe/Warren/Miami pick
Suns recieve: Murray/Shump/Frye

Frye is an expiring, salary filler. Shump is a negative contract, Murray is a prospect. Suns are trading bledsoe, Miami pick, and warren for Murray and, at best, filler. I'd say no to that.

[BobbieL]

I think that Popovich is gonna get Kyrie. He played defense for USA in the Olympics and he shared the ball.

He is a monster and Popovich can use him perfectly. He can be the newest and better version of Tony Parker in San Antonio. With Leonard and him they can be great for another 5 consecutive years.

If the offers are not too good Dejaunte Murray, LaMarcus Aldridge and a couple of first round picks can get it done.

No chance. LMA is washed up and they already have LeBron, Love and TT. Murray is a marginal prospect.

I don't think they need Aldridge but him being washed up is a bit overblown. He shot over 41% from 3 this year...by far his best ever and had his highest block per36 number since his rookie year. His rebounds were down a bit, but likely largely because of Gasol and Kawhi. Scoring down a tick but that's likely due to being second option.

With the CAvs having Love and Tristan, I don't see a fit for LMA unless they play him at the 5. But it seems they already play Tristan and Love at the 5 quite a bit

Thats why if Kyrie is in San Antonio, I see LMA on another team other then Cleveland - like Phoenix.
Bledsoe, LMA and Kyrie the key pieces. And I said earlier, If D Murray has good upside and it doesn't cost much, LMA. Murray and Frye for Bledsoe, pieces, fine with me

[TeamTragic]

No chance. LMA is washed up and they already have LeBron, Love and TT. Murray is a marginal prospect.

I don't think they need Aldridge but him being washed up is a bit overblown. He shot over 41% from 3 this year...by far his best ever and had his highest block per36 number since his rookie year. His rebounds were down a bit, but likely largely because of Gasol and Kawhi. Scoring down a tick but that's likely due to being second option.

With the CAvs having Love and Tristan, I don't see a fit for LMA unless they play him at the 5. But it seems they already play Tristan and Love at the 5 quite a bit

Thats why if Kyrie is in San Antonio, I see LMA on another team other then Cleveland - like Phoenix.
Bledsoe, LMA and Kyrie the key pieces. And I said earlier, If D Murray has good upside and it doesn't cost much, LMA. Murray and Frye for Bledsoe, pieces, fine with me

Pass on LMA. We don't want him. Maybe on Murray.

[BobbieL]

I don't think they need Aldridge but him being washed up is a bit overblown. He shot over 41% from 3 this year...by far his best ever and had his highest block per36 number since his rookie year. His rebounds were down a bit, but likely largely because of Gasol and Kawhi. Scoring down a tick but that's likely due to being second option.

With the CAvs having Love and Tristan, I don't see a fit for LMA unless they play him at the 5. But it seems they already play Tristan and Love at the 5 quite a bit

Thats why if Kyrie is in San Antonio, I see LMA on another team other then Cleveland - like Phoenix.
Bledsoe, LMA and Kyrie the key pieces. And I said earlier, If D Murray has good upside and it doesn't cost much, LMA. Murray and Frye for Bledsoe, pieces, fine with me

Pass on LMA. We don't want him. Maybe on Murray.

If you are trading Chandler and Dudley and taking on LMA - whats the difference? Both expire in 2019, combined they make the same - if you get the right asset attached - I don't see the big deal.

In fact, I think the Suns are a better team with LMA over the combo of what Dudley and Chandler give

[mademan]

I put this on the trade board. What you guys think?

Cleveland trades: Kyrie/Frye/Shump
Cleveland recieves: Bledsoe/Chandler/Barton/Miami pick/Denver pick

Denver trades: Barton/Murray/Chandler/Denver 2018 pick
Denver recieves: Kyrie/Warren

Suns trade: Bledsoe/Warren/Miami pick
Suns recieve: Murray/Shump/Frye

Frye is an expiring, salary filler. Shump is a negative contract, Murray is a prospect. Suns are trading bledsoe, Miami pick, and warren for Murray and, at best, filler. I'd say no to that.

You could take Warren back and give Dudely. I dont think itd be a deal breaker. Is Bledsoe/likely non lotto pick/ vet for Murray bad value? I thought I was gonna have to send something else to Denver from Cleveland

[TeamTragic]

With the CAvs having Love and Tristan, I don't see a fit for LMA unless they play him at the 5. But it seems they already play Tristan and Love at the 5 quite a bit

Thats why if Kyrie is in San Antonio, I see LMA on another team other then Cleveland - like Phoenix.
Bledsoe, LMA and Kyrie the key pieces. And I said earlier, If D Murray has good upside and it doesn't cost much, LMA. Murray and Frye for Bledsoe, pieces, fine with me

Pass on LMA. We don't want him. Maybe on Murray.

If you are trading Chandler and Dudley and taking on LMA - whats the difference? Both expire in 2019, combined they make the same - if you get the right asset attached - I don't see the big deal.

In fact, I think the Suns are a better team with LMA over the combo of what Dudley and Chandler give

I'm not sure I would swap Bledsoe with LMA. Murray would be a nice addition.

[jredsaz]

I am starting to think we can beat just about any other team with something like that if we include a young player, mainly because Bledsoe is the better PG, because we also have picks and young players. But if they want a young player, and don't like ours, who knows?

The one team that could absolutely beat us is Boston. Now I think they SHOULD get in the mix, and even throw IT in there. Even though IT was better this past season, has a better TS%, eFG%, passes more, etc, and advanced #s favored him, he's 3 years older and I think Irving would put up even better numbers in Boston, and if I was Boston, I'd prefer to give him the max over IT.



http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20177155/kyrie-irving-trade-talks-show-how-much-teams-including-cleveland-cavaliers-value-him

They have a boatload of picks, IT, and a bunch of young guys and a vet to throw in. They could offer IT, a couple of their own picks, and Tatum or Brown....or they could throw in Crowder. If they want to keep both Tatum and Brown, give Crowder and another young guy like Ojeleye and/or Zizic.

They have all sorts of young guys and picks.

I'm not sure the Cavs would be willing to deal with Boston, but they should look into it if they want the best assets. Boston has been stubborn, but this is the one deal where IT is replaceable, and they wouldn't have to max IT.

I just don't see the Celtics, who wouldn't pony up for Cousins, Butler, and George, to trade all those assets for a point guard who is arguably not as good as the one they have.

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So would you want IT as much as Irving?

Probably not but again, it's a rational argument to chose IT over Irving.

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[BobbieL]

Pass on LMA. We don't want him. Maybe on Murray.

If you are trading Chandler and Dudley and taking on LMA - whats the difference? Both expire in 2019, combined they make the same - if you get the right asset attached - I don't see the big deal.

In fact, I think the Suns are a better team with LMA over the combo of what Dudley and Chandler give

I'm not sure I would swap Bledsoe with LMA. Murray would be a nice addition.

I guess in a broader scope - its not so much about LMA and Dudley or Chandler. Its about Eric Bledsoe - and is the right long term fit for the Suns? If the answer is Yes - keep him. Based on them wanting Kyrie, possibly talking to Denver about the 13th pick - It seems they think the answer is No

So is D Murray a guy that has the potential to be the long term point guard alongside Booker? If the answer is Yes, well, it might seem steep to give up Bledsoe for Murray so more needs to be added. Now if this were Jamal Murray, done and done. But for Demontre Murray - thats harder to say. But if they think he can be the guy to replace Bledsoe longer term - and it doesn't cost much more than Dudley or maybe the Heat pick - you take on LMA, move Dudley to Cleveland, Chandler to SA and everything still is "fine for 2019"

[mademan]

If you are trading Chandler and Dudley and taking on LMA - whats the difference? Both expire in 2019, combined they make the same - if you get the right asset attached - I don't see the big deal.

In fact, I think the Suns are a better team with LMA over the combo of what Dudley and Chandler give

I'm not sure I would swap Bledsoe with LMA. Murray would be a nice addition.

I guess in a broader scope - its not so much about LMA and Dudley or Chandler. Its about Eric Bledsoe - and is the right long term fit for the Suns? If the answer is Yes - keep him. Based on them wanting Kyrie, possibly talking to Denver about the 13th pick - It seems they think the answer is No

So is D Murray a guy that has the potential to be the long term point guard alongside Booker? If the answer is Yes, well, it might seem steep to give up Bledsoe for Murray so more needs to be added. Now if this were Jamal Murray, done and done. But for Demontre Murray - thats harder to say. But if they think he can be the guy to replace Bledsoe longer term - and it doesn't cost much more than Dudley or maybe the Heat pick - you take on LMA, move Dudley to Cleveland, Chandler to SA and everything still is "fine for 2019"

Clevelands not gonna allow a possibility of Kyrie beating them in the finals this year. No way they send him to SAS unless it is BY FAR the best offer.

[BobbieL]

I'm not sure I would swap Bledsoe with LMA. Murray would be a nice addition.

I guess in a broader scope - its not so much about LMA and Dudley or Chandler. Its about Eric Bledsoe - and is the right long term fit for the Suns? If the answer is Yes - keep him. Based on them wanting Kyrie, possibly talking to Denver about the 13th pick - It seems they think the answer is No

So is D Murray a guy that has the potential to be the long term point guard alongside Booker? If the answer is Yes, well, it might seem steep to give up Bledsoe for Murray so more needs to be added. Now if this were Jamal Murray, done and done. But for Demontre Murray - thats harder to say. But if they think he can be the guy to replace Bledsoe longer term - and it doesn't cost much more than Dudley or maybe the Heat pick - you take on LMA, move Dudley to Cleveland, Chandler to SA and everything still is "fine for 2019"

Clevelands not gonna allow a possibility of Kyrie beating them in the finals this year. No way they send him to SAS unless it is BY FAR the best offer.

This is why three team deals and the Suns often are not the best for them - as Zach Lowe pointed out. Because Cleveland is wanting fair value for Kyrie but would the Suns get fair value for Bledsoe: Frank N and expirings or Shumpert -- ehh. But the Cavs will want more than Bledsoe and say the Heat pick or Bledsoe and Dudley. So does the other team have assets to add. Knicks sure as hell don't

[Qwigglez]

I remember some of the same concerns about James Harden when he was available. He was in a similar situation in OKC as Kyrie is in Cleveland. Harden got his own team and he exploded and by the way he is not a great defender either. I can see similar things happening with Kyrie. When he had his own team he was a teenager with little talent around him. Now he is on Lebron's team. Harden was on Westbrook and Durrant's team. When Harden got his own team, he went nuts. I was in the minority when Harden became available and thought we should throw everything & the kitchen sink at OKC to get him. Most thought he wasn't all that.

There are a lot of similarities in Harden's and Kyrie's game. Both are great finishers but Kyrie is a better shooter from distance. Kyrie has averaged more assists than Harden did in OKC. Harden was not the man in OKC and neither is Kyrie in Cleveland.

I brought this up a few days ago. Harden was young and people were to focused on "What he couldnt do at the time on his current team" but going to Houston allowed him to develop more and show what he could really do. Hell, even before last season started, everyone was doubting the shift of him playing PG saying, "All he does is shoot. He doesnt get his teammates involved. He doesnt pass. He isnt a creator". When given the task, he stepped up to the plate and knocked it out of the park. Thats what great players do.

Good comparison guys. I think a lot of us are worried that the Suns would be making a deal premature and we should wait a couple of seasons for our guys to develop. My problem with that is this kind of opportunity isn't guaranteed to happen again and there is no perfect moment to strike. Who knows if our players will ever develop with or without Kyrie. Imagine in 3-4 years if Bender/Chriss don't reach their potential and we look back at this summer and wonder what would have happened had we brought Kyrie in to play with Booker. There is no guarantee that we will be the next Wolves/Jazz/Warriors just because we followed their blueprint.

Also, I believe Harden parties a lot like Kyrie so their off-court habits are similar, yet Harden is still improving as a player. It could just be because of D'Antoni and his system though.

[TOO]

I put this on the trade board. What you guys think?

Cleveland trades: Kyrie/Frye/Shump
Cleveland recieves: Bledsoe/Chandler/Barton/Miami pick/Denver pick

Denver trades: Barton/Murray/Chandler/Denver 2018 pick
Denver recieves: Kyrie/Warren

Suns trade: Bledsoe/Warren/Miami pick
Suns recieve: Murray/Shump/Frye

PASS

Yeah, pass. Bledsoe/Warren/Miami 1st for THAT? I get people like Murray, but he's a SG, we have one.

[BobbieL]

I believe this thread was around page 20 a week ago - one tweet from Windhorst about Kyrie wanting a trade - boom 80 pages in a week and I have probably spent way too much time looking for the next WojBomb or ShelBlast or ShamShot -- but enjoying the chats with all of you

its fun!

[Kerrsed]

I believe this thread was around page 20 a week ago - one tweet from Windhorst about Kyrie wanting a trade - boom 80 pages in a week and I have probably spent way too much time looking for the next WojBomb or ShelBlast or ShamShot -- but enjoying the chats with all of you

its fun!

Yeah, the Irving info saved the board from the typical Summer desertion that happens every year.

[DirtyDez]

If Kyrie is willing to leave a title contender to be King of NY he wouldn't have a problem leaving the lottery Suns to go back home in two years. Bledsoe and Dudley like Haberstroh suggested is my max offer.

[nevetsov]

PGs are a dime a dozen, you don't give up bulk young talent or picks for them. There are at about a dozen comparable PGs to Irving in this league, and after this last draft about 10 young prospects that have potential to be in that group soon.

You use your picks to create a good team like we have (or like we did with JJ/Marion/Amare) and a PG will want to sign with us. Absolutely no point giving someone else pieces of the core we have worked so hard to put together.

Hell, we signed IT for pittance and look at him now. No one wanted him because 75% of the NBA has an entrenched starting PG (including us - if fact, we already had 2!).

[LukasBMW]

I wonder if we could get Irving AND love while KEEPING Booker/JJ/TJ/Ulis and one of Bender/Chriss.

Irving/Ulis
Booker/
TJ/JJ
Love/Chriss
Tyson/Sauce

Perhaps

-Irving and Love to Phoenix

-Bledsoe, Melo, Miami 2018 and Miami 2021 to the Cavs

-Knight, Bender, Suns 2018 (top 5 protected) to the Knicks.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8vu78oj

Knicks get a great haul for Melo

Cavs get comparable replacements for their 2 disgruntled stars and two picks for the future.

Suns acclerate their rebuild. Love becomes a top option on offense again. Kyrie can play in the fast paced west. Booker becomes the 3rd star. TJ becomes a low maintence 4th option. Tyson holds down the middle. Ulis/JJ/Chriss still give us something to look forward to.

Cavs probably hang up laughing. Or maybe not.

Just thinking out loud.

I think Love especially still could be a superstar in a different system.

[gaspar]

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[matt131]

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Hmm, what they want seems like what we could offer. Not saying do or don't do it, just saying we do have the pieces to get it done