Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion #5: A Serving of Irving?

[Kerrsed]

Continued from: HERE!

Jones Jr doing the #DrivebyDunkChallenge

https://www.facebook.com/ringer/videos/1904414406491674/

[8on]

I've decided I don't want to get into a bidding war with San Antonio, Minnesota and New York. I don't want to win that war. That could mean giving up the whole rebuild. I don't want to do that.

Congrats, Cleveland, there are no offers good enough for you. #trustthetimeline #shouldvekeptIT

[DirtyDez]

Read on Twitter

?

Officially okay with tanking for another year...

[BobbieL]

Following up from this tweet from the previous thread: Suns do check many boxes. Player on a rookie contract - I know they want Josh Jackson but Chriss was the 8th pick. Its not like trading with the Spurs getting "Kyle Anderson on a rookie deal" - he was the 30th pick. Warren has value. And again - Suns - especially if they renounce Len or he finally takes the 6m or so - have a ton of cap space to absorb Shumpert, who I think adds defensive value with Kyrie, Tyler and Book and a Frye who is expiring

No bidding war - just give what you can give and say take it or leave it

Read on Twitter

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

Officially okay with tanking for another year...

If he reclassifies - guessing Duke would be the leader since they lost so many up court guys.

Arizona has Ayton and Ristic - doesn't seem to be a fit for Bagley, this year

And yes, Ayton, the kid from Texas and now Bagley - all pretty good bigs.

[jredsaz]

Following up from this tweet from the previous thread: Suns do check many boxes. Player on a rookie contract - I know they want Josh Jackson but Chriss was the 8th pick. Its not like trading with the Spurs getting "Kyle Anderson on a rookie deal" - he was the 30th pick. Warren has value. And again - Suns - especially if they renounce Len or he finally takes the 6m or so - have a ton of cap space to absorb Shumpert, who I think adds defensive value with Kyrie, Tyler and Book and a Frye who is expiring

No bidding war - just give what you can give and say take it or leave it

Read on Twitter

Man. That is exactly our deal. Maybe they are holding out for the PHX pic to make the deal?

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

[BobbieL]

Following up from this tweet from the previous thread: Suns do check many boxes. Player on a rookie contract - I know they want Josh Jackson but Chriss was the 8th pick. Its not like trading with the Spurs getting "Kyle Anderson on a rookie deal" - he was the 30th pick. Warren has value. And again - Suns - especially if they renounce Len or he finally takes the 6m or so - have a ton of cap space to absorb Shumpert, who I think adds defensive value with Kyrie, Tyler and Book and a Frye who is expiring

No bidding war - just give what you can give and say take it or leave it

Read on Twitter

Man. That is exactly our deal. Maybe they are holding out for the PHX pic to make the deal?

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

ESPN trade Machine has the Suns with 7m of cap space but that is because Len has a cap hold of 12m. So get Len done, two year deal, similar to Williams, 6m or whatever just to open the cap space. That would leave the suns with 13m of cap space.

Suns could easily take on: Kyrie plus Shumpert, Jefferson, possibly Frye for

Bledsoe, Dudley (or Tyson if they need a Center as the Cavs seem to be heavy on forwards) , their own or Torontos second round pick and this is where it gets dicey

Bender, Warren or Chriss - I think most people prefer Chriss but maybe since Warren is an RFA to be, they move him
The Heat pick protected for the top 10

I think this would save Dan Gilbert some 45 to 50m in cash since he is a super luxury tax payer so its 4x for every dollar over. This cap savings would be near $10m plus the $35 to 400m saved in luxury tax. That too me has value - so maybe not the Heat pick

Bledsoe, Dudley/Tyson, Chriss for the players mentioned - you can easily buy out Frye. If they want to move Jefferson, probably can include Millsap as that would be cap savings for Gilbert

Bledsoe, Tyson, Chriss - just might be enough to win the East. Add in the Heat pick protected - and that should be the MAX the Suns go.

Kyrie/Shumpert for Tyson, Chriss the Heat pick and Bledsoe - seems like a good deal for CAvs

[Christine-In-AZ]

If Irving actually gets moved in the near future (50/50?) and if the Suns are involved in an Irving deal (15/85 against it? IMO) I don't think Irving ends up in Phoenix. I'm just having a very hard time believing McD would see that as anything other than highly risky, when the Suns have no need to gamble at this juncture.

I do believe the Suns are considering/talking, and view the Kyrie situation as an opportunity to make good moves on the rebuild Chess board.

I'll predict (never smart) if that 15% trade chance happens, it'll either be (roughly) a...

Bledsoe for Ntilikina/expiring filler swap

or

Bledsoe/Warren/Chriss/Pick(s) for Love/Ntilikina deal

Might need Chander also going out and something else coming back in with this 2nd guess...Cavs can't add salary. Other parts coming and going of course with NYK and the Cavs, namely a Melo-Kyrie swap.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yacoxkwt (O'Quinn subbed for Frank)

Suns- Love, Ntilikina In:26m Out:21m
Cavs- Bledsoe, Melo, Chriss, 1-7 protected '18 Suns pick? In:44m Out:52m = big tax savings
Knicks- Irving, Warren, Shumpert? Miami pick? In:33m Out:30m
...or something like this.

I always chuckle at these 8, 9, 10 player, 3 team swap ideas, so chuckle away at my expense, I get it. And that 15% trade chance is closer to 5% for this big'un. Exceedingly unlikely.

Bottomline: I think the Kyrie to Phoenix is most likely sort of a red herring, and that in actuality the Suns are targeting first Ntilikina, but also *Kevin Love.

*I'm not that geeked about the Suns acquiring Love.(injury history) Just have a feeling the Suns like Love ...still.

[Qwigglez]

Spoiler:

Following up from this tweet from the previous thread: Suns do check many boxes. Player on a rookie contract - I know they want Josh Jackson but Chriss was the 8th pick. Its not like trading with the Spurs getting "Kyle Anderson on a rookie deal" - he was the 30th pick. Warren has value. And again - Suns - especially if they renounce Len or he finally takes the 6m or so - have a ton of cap space to absorb Shumpert, who I think adds defensive value with Kyrie, Tyler and Book and a Frye who is expiring

No bidding war - just give what you can give and say take it or leave it

Read on Twitter

Man. That is exactly our deal. Maybe they are holding out for the PHX pic to make the deal?

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

This is the exact kind of deal that McD mentioned when he first got hired here. Gather assets, trade them for a star. We got the assets, but they do expire.
I would do a pick swap with the Cavs for 2018 though we have top 8 protection on our pick. The following year it could be top 4 protection and a pick swap still. This would be ideal because if we are able to still get a top 7 pick, the next season Lebron could bolt and they would be a bottom feeder so our pick would probably still be ours anyway. Then in 2020 our pick is fully the Cavs pick with no protection.

[darealjuice]

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?

Officially okay with tanking for another year...

Man next year's class is STACKED at the top if Bagley clears.

[DaleyBlind]

Is Bagley considered a better prospect than Porter?

[darealjuice]

Is Bagley considered a better prospect than Porter?

Yeah a lot of people consider Bagley a generational prospect and someone who'd go #1 in many drafts

[matt131]

@ESPNNBA: Kyrie got tired of being treated "like he's the child and LeBron's the father," a source told @stephenasmith.
https://t.co/f5HBMX08tz

@ESPNNBA: RT @espn: A source told Stephen A., "Kyrie knows he's a franchise-caliber talent. He wants to be treated like it." https://t.co/UncMVppAgF



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[DirtyDez]

Is Bagley considered a better prospect than Porter?

He's so good USC offered his 7 year old brother a full ride scholarship...

Read on Twitter

/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-7825783411468740060.ampproject.net%2F1501206447946%2Fframe.html

[Kerrsed]

Man, i didnt enter the "Rebuilding The Suns" contest on the trade board, as i wanted to be able to vote on it without my own trade influence, but ****, i cant even vote on one because i feel like they are all horrible! Take a second to check them out:

Spoiler:

Entry 1:

"I think the Suns should stick to their plan of rebuilding with the west as tough as it is. I would not give up the rumored assets it would take to acquire Irving considering how tough the west is, being very unlikely to make the playoffs the next two years, and his likelihood of leaving at that point.

The trade I would consider, that sticks a long the timeline of the Suns, is seeing if they can help facilitate a trade where Kyrie Irving, Iman Shumpert and Channing Frye end up with the Knicks, Eric Bledsoe, Carmelo Anthony, and a Knicks 2018 top 8 protected pick to the Cavs, and Frank Ntilikina to the Suns.

This clears out even more cap space for the Suns to possibly take on large expiring contracts if people need to dump them, however I wouldn't take on any bad contracts that last longer than 2 years given the number of bad ones we have now and the need to start extending players on rookie deals in 2-3 years.

I would look for potential deals to dump Knight, but would not give up many assets to do so until that cap space was absolutely needed to sign a free agent. I would look to see if anyone wants Chandler but would be fine keeping him if it took giving up a first rounder to move him.

I would extend Len to a 3 year/$21 million contract with a team option in the third year. If it took a little more than that to avoid him playing on the QO, I'd go up a little bit."

Entry 2:

Suns send: Dudley, 2018 2nd
Suns receive: Aldrich, OKC 1st

Why for Suns? They get a first and basically an expiring for Dudley.
Why for Minny? They get a bigger back up wing that they need. Dudley could also play small ball 4 if needed. Phoenix's 2nd should be a decent one too, so they realistically may only move back 10 or so spots for picking up a useful player.

Trade 2:
Phx out: Bledsoe
Phx in: Mudiay, Harris, Mcdermott, Nelson (bought out), Denver 2018 1st top 20 protected (top 20 2 years, then 2 2nds)

Denver out: Mudiay, Nelson, Arthur, 2018 1st
Denver in: Bledsoe, Singler, 2018 Chi 2nd, 2018 OKC 2nd

OKC sends: Singler, McDermott, 2018 Chi/PKC 2nds
OKC receives: Arthur

Why for Suns? They get a look at a young point guard, 2 young wings, and another 1st.
Why for Denver? They get a massive upgrade at point guard and get prepared to compete with a Bledsoe-Millsap-Jokic big 3.
Why for OKC? Dump Singler and get a useable back up 4.

Trade 3:
NO in: Knight
Phx in: Asik, NO 2019 2nd

Why for NO? They can use Knight 10-15 minutes a game and as an instant offense spark plug off the bench which they actually have a need for. Asik is useless for them as well.
Why for Phx? Save some money and get a player who isn't Knight. Asik's last year is also only partially gtd.

Trade 4:
Phi sends: Okafur, Bayless
Phx sends: Chandler, 2018 Tor 2nd

Why for Philly? Get a great locker room vet to help the youngsters grow. They also move on from the Okafur headache while continue to committing to competing.
Why for Phx? They get a young center that desperately needs a change of scenery and a vet point guard.

End roster:

Roster:
Ulis/Mudiay/Bayless
Booker/Harris/Millsap
Jackson/Warren/Jones Jr/Mcdermott
Chriss/Bender/Williams
Okafur/Aldrich/Asik

**Nelson bought out.**
**Millsap and/or Aldrich waived/bought out**
**Len on QO**

New assets:
2018 OKC 1st
2018 Denver 1st

Entry 3:

Eric Bledsoe for Matthew Dellavedova, Jabari Parker and a future second round draft pick

Entry 4:

So Knight is hurt which means he stays put. And I want some veteran leadership to help grow the kids so Chandler and Dudley can stay for now. Which means trading Bledsoe is the way to go. Several options, but I'm going with Denver who desperately needs a PG upgrade and has some assets to spare. Bring in OKC to improve the deal and we have this:

OKC trades: Dougie Buckets, 2018 CHI 2nd, 2019 OKC 2nd
OKC gets: Will Barton

OKC does this to get an upgraded offensive player for their bench. And they get his Bird Rights so if they can shed some of Kanter's money they might can keep him around, but this is a move for this year.

Denver trades: Mudiay, Barton, Beasley, Arthur, 2018 1st(top 10, top 7, top 5, 2 2nds)
Denver gets: Bledsoe, Warren

Denver massively upgrades their PG and gets a young controllable SF back as well. Beasley is never going to get to play and they get some value out of Mudiay and Barton while they have some.

Phoenix trades: Bledsoe, Warren
Phoenix gets: Mudiay, Arthur, Beasley, McBuckets, 2018 DEN 1st, 2018 CHI 2nd, 2019 OKC 2nd

No, there are no premium assets to be found here, but we've seen the PG market and especially with his knees, he's just not worth one. Warren doesn't appear to have a future here so toss him in to get more pulls at finding talent coming back. Mudiay has talent and now he has time and the perfect backcourt mate with which to bring it out. Beasley is a nice talent for the bench, McBuckets is worth a flier for a year and can probably be re-signed cheap and some picks on top.

We then let Len play out the year on his QO and fight to prove he deserves minutes over Williams.

Now I wouldn't have kept the GM, but to be fair most of the poor choices by the Suns have been owner driven and so it's cool he's better at his job than the results would suggest. But I want to bring in someone else to be part of the leadership mix and to get the fans excited. It should have been Nash, but there must be good reasons why that hasn't happened in real life so I'm bringing back another former Suns player in Grant Hill and giving him a big title and a big voice. Brilliant guy and perfect guy to be a public face of an organization that needs an image change.

Entry 5:

Phoenix trades

Brandon Knight
$13,618,750, $14,631,250, $15,643,750
Alan Williams
$5,250,000, $5,670,000, $6,090,000
Dragan Bender
$4,468,800, $4,661,280, $5,896,519, $7,777,509
2018 first
2021 first
For

Cleveland trades

Richard Jefferson $2,500,000.00
Kevin Love $22,642,350.00 $24,119,025.00 $25,595,700.00

Entry 6:

First off, it's Kyrie trade, I'm sure you've received none of those! But just because it's obvious doesn't make it wrong.

Phoenix In: Kyrie / Evan Turner / Shumpert / Noah Vonleh
Phoenix out: Bledsoe / Bender / Warren / Knight / Ulis / D. Jones Jr. / Milsap

Cleveland in: Bledsoe / Fournier / TJ Warren / Ulis / Milsap
Cleveland out: Kyrie / Shumpert / Frye / Felder

Orlando in: Bender / Knight
Orlando out: Fournier / DJ Augustine

Portland in: Frye / Augustine / D. Jones Jr. / Felder
Portland out: Evan Turner / Vonleh

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y94gpqxf

Portland - Dumps Turner's contract. It's a salary dump, they turn Turner's deal into Augustine's lower deal for the same length (who should be able to give them some backup PG minutes), lose Vonleh but roll the dice on two young cheap guys and save a wee bit of money off their tax bill this year.

Orlando - Takes in Knight's deal, but moves more long term money out due to Fournier / Augustine, adds Bender to their perpetual rebuild, a guy whose shooting is needed with Payton / Gordon playing big roles and creating an interesting young frontcourt group of Bender / Gordon / Isaac. Also, Cavs fans have repeatedly said they don't want Bender.

Cleveland - They don't get a superstar, but they do get young pieces who should be able to contribute immediately. I'm not sure they are going to do better for a positional replacement than Bledsoe, I'm aware of the injury concerns between him and Rose, but Bledsoe is ideally a guy who can smother Curry as well as anyone can. They also add young wing depth, Fournier gives them yet another shooter, but one who is only 25 and Warren is 23, also a young wing with some scoring punch. Ulis is a better young prospect than Felder and ideally with Fournier / Warren / Ulis / Osman they have young guys who can soak up a lot of minutes in the regular season, keeping their other wings fresh for the postseason.

Phoenix - I know the point is to rebuild, and move off Knight's deal (harder to do now with the ACL), but having Kyrie / Booker / Jackson / Chriss in place puts them into a position of already having a very interesting young core, I don't think the team should force being bad for another young player. If Kyrie is truly ready to run the team and Booker continues to develop, they may be good earlier than people realize. That being the case, I'm okay keeping Chandler / Dudley (great locker room guys) and adding in Shump's deal. They'll be armed with ~$35 mil in expiring deals next summer, along with the Miami draft picks and young guys to make a move for another piece.

I'm also ok swapping Knight's deal for Turner's deal, giving the salary cap structure of the team, Turner's deal doesn't really prevent anything from happening and I believe he can be an interesting player for them since they could use more playmaking behind Kyrie. Kyrie / Booker / Dudley provide enough shooting to play Turner as a secondary playmaker with that unit.

I'd be comfortable with Len playing the year on the QO and I would look to add a vet min backup guard, ideally Ian Clark otherwise someone like Deron Williams / Brandon Jennings and a wing, ideally Gerald Green otherwise someone like Matt Barnes or KJ McDaniels.

Lineup:

Chandler / Len / Williams
Chriss (not sure Chriss is ready for big minutes) / Dudley / Vonleh
Turner / Jackson (with the hope Jackson takes the starting job and Turner can be wing/backup PG role) / Vet FA
Booker / Shumpert / Reed
Kyrie / Vet FA / Young camp PG

If it doesn't work, they can shop the vets at the deadline and roll with a tank lineup of Kyrie / Booker / Jackson / Chriss / Vonleh

Entry 7:

Jared Dudley to New Orleans for Omer Asik and a top-18 protected 2018 1st (lottery in 2019, top 10 2020, 2 2nds).

Tyson Chandler to Milwaukee for Henson and a lottery protected 2018 1st (lottery for two years, then 2 2nds)

Eric Bledsoe to Denver for Mudiay, Faried, and lottery protected 2019 1st (lottery for two years, then 2 2nds)

Entry 8:

PHX out: Bledsoe, Dudley, Chandler, Millsap
PHX in: Mudiay, Kanter, Abrines, Singler, Ferguson, Grant, 2018 DEN 1st, 2018 CHI 2nd

Mudiay/Ulis/Knight
Booker/Abrines/Ferguson
Jackson/Grant/Singler/Jones
Chriss/Bender
Kanter/Williams

DEN out: Arthur, Barton, Mudiay, Nelson, 2018 DEN 1st
DEN in: Bledsoe, Dudley, Millsap

Bledsoe/Christon
Harris/Beasley/Millsap
Chandler/Dudley
Millsap/Hernangomez
Jokic/Plumlee

OKC out: Kanter, Singler, Ferguson, Abrines, Christon, Grant, 2018 CHI 2nd
OKC in: Arthur, Barton, Chandler, Nelson

Russ/Felton/Jameer
Roberson/Barton
PG/Huestis
PPat/Arthur/Collison
Adams/Chandler/Dakari

Entry 9:

I wanted to stay away from the usual trades and all things Kyrie so I tried something different.

Step 1: Agree to Len become a UFA by letting him know that we have no interest in his services long term and that he would not see minutes here if he were to sign the QO. He's better off taking a 1 year deal with a team that can get him on the court.

Trade 1: Moving on from Bledsoe with Detroit and Chicago

Detroit trades Reggie Jackson, Stanley Johnson, 2018 1st Round Pick (top 3 protected) for Eric Bledsoe

Why for Detroit? Moving into the new arena, they need to put together a winning roster. Adding Bradley is a step in the right direction but I think having a good point guard is more important for Detroit than most other teams because their offense relies so heavily on setting up Drummond and the other pieces. Bledsoe is an excellent young lead guard that is cost controlled for multiple years and a major upgrade over Jackson in many departments. The cost is high but they dump Reggie in the process.

Chicago trades Bobby Portis for Stanley Johnson

Why for Chicago? They just drafted Markkanen who they want to give a lot of minutes to and are likely retaining Mirotic, so there aren't minutes for Portis. They are however weak on the wings with essentially Valentine and Morrow expected to play 48 minutes - getting a flier on Johnson and letting him learn by playing seems like a solid decision to see whether he can turn into something.

Phoenix trades Bledsoe for Reggie Jackson, Bobby Portis, 2018 DET 1st Round Pick (top 3 protected)

Why for Phoenix? They kill 2 birds in one stone. Not only do they get value back for Bledsoe when he's at his highest, but they also make use of the cap space to make sure the assets returning are top tier. A flier on a young big with some 2-way potential as well.

Trade 2: Portland/Phoenix

Portland trades Meyers Leonard, Ed Davis, 2018 POR 1st Round Pick for Tyson Chandler

Why for Portland? They dump a useless contract and cut more salary while adding a vet backup C to continue improving their current roster.

Phoenix trades Tyson Chandler for Meyers Leonard, Ed Davis, 2018 POR 1st Round Pick

Why for Phoenix? They take on some salary to get a quality 4/5 in Davis and add another pick to their arsenal.

Trade 3: New Orleans/Phoenix

New Orleans trades Solomon Hill and 2019 1st rounder for Jared Dudley, TJ Warren

Why for NOP? They also get to dump a bad signing while adding 2 quality players to help put a winning product around Davis and Cousins. Dudley can start at the SF with Warren being the scoring sub to bolster the bench.

Phoenix trades Dudley, Warren for Hill, 2019 1st Round Pick

Why for Phoenix? The complete the movement of all their vets and clear up more playing time for star rookie Jackson while adding yet another pick to the arsenal.


Final Phoenix Roster:

Jackson/Ulis/(Knight)
Booker/Reed/Millsap
Jackson/Hill/DJJ
Chriss/Portis/Bender
Williams/Davis/Leonard

Picks added: 2018 DET 1st (Top 3 protected), 2018 POR 1st (unprotected), 2019 NOP 1st (unprotected)
Other Assets added: Bobby Portis
Players lost: Eric Bledsoe, Tyson Chandler, Jared Dudley, TJ Warren
Deadweight added: Jackson, Leonard, Hill

Reasoning: Capped out for 3 years with the additions of Jackson, Leonard and Hill but that's actually perfect because that's the same time that Booker becomes ready for his next contract while Chriss, Bender and Jackson remain on the rookie deals for a year or two. We add a whole bunch of assets that we can use in further trades to upgrade the roster around Booker and Jackson after paying these deadweights for a year or two.

Now if i were in control of the Suns, i would make sure that Chriss/Bender/Our draft picks were all off the table (Along with Jackson/Booker), unless it was major young talent coming back, so i right away eliminated the trades that fit those perimeters (#5&#6).

Most of them are us having bad players on bad contracts dumped on us for our vets (Bledsoe/Dudley/Chandler) and Warren, while sprinkling on a draft pick or two for flavoring.

The only 2 that i had the slightest interest in was #1 (Bledsoe for French Frank straight up and signing Len 3Y/$21M) and #3 (Bledsoe for Dellavedova/Parker/2nd round pick). The first one is barely doing anything and the 2nd one is a major high risk/high reward situation depending on how Parker is coming back from tearing his ACL (Specially on an expiring contract). In the end, i guess i have to choose #1.

What do you guys think?

[GeraldsGreenery]

Dont know how legit this is...but the article is saying the Cavs rejected our offer of

Bender
Bledsoe
and a 2018 draft pick.

Read on Twitter

[SlovenianDragon]

Yeah I'm all for the Frank swap.

I really want the suns to do a full commit to this rebuild and stay the course til we are ready.

[SlovenianDragon]

Dont know how legit this is...but the article is saying the Cavs rejected our offer of

Bender
Bledsoe
and a 2018 draft pick.

Read on Twitter

Thank god I want no part of Irving.

And Bender looked pretty good in Sl. And I know its summer league but he is young and we don't really know how he will turn out. His passing surprised me the most.

no no no Irving pleaseeeeeeeeeeee

[AtheJ415]

Doubt that report is accurate, but if it is, it better have been Miami's 2018. No way should our 2018 be included here unless heavily protected.

[Kerrsed]

Dont know how legit this is...but the article is saying the Cavs rejected our offer of

Bender
Bledsoe
and a 2018 draft pick.

Read on Twitter

Yeah, i take it with a grain of salt. On his website he states:

The Cleveland Cavaliers have rejected the latest trade offer from the Phoenix Suns, according to one who claims they have connections with the latter team’s front office.

So i could tweet him saying, "I have connections in the Suns FO and that the Cav's want Knight/Chandler/Dudley for Irving but we dont want to trade Chandler as he is a positive influence in our locker room", and it would have just as much credit.