Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

[phraoh]

Celtics really haven't gained much, if anything at all on Cleveland this year, if they trade Kyrie for Bledsoe, and say improve bench by replacing Shumpert and Williams with Rose and Dudley for example. That and defense is better. Boston added Hayward and Tatum, but lost Bradley, Olynk, etc., probably a slight improvement. You have to remember, Cavs blew out Boston 4 games out of 5.

[BasketballFan7]

I wonder if Cleveland plans on holding onto Jackson or flipping him later on in the season when a difference maker inevitably becomes available.

[BasketballFan7]

I have suggested another trade on the Suns board, I think it is fair and we do not need to trade Warren or Chriss.

Bledsoe, 2018 Suns pick (Top 3 protected for a couple of years, after that unprotected) and Davon Reed for Kyrie Irving.

[John Murdoch]

I feel confident saying the Suns will not trade Josh Jackson. Had the Celtics taken Jackson at No 3, then I believe the Suns would have traded for Kyrie on draft night.
I expect the deal to be Bledsoe/Warren and the 2018 Miami pick for Irving/Shumpert. I will say this to Cavs fans, a lot of Suns fans do not want to give up Warren. He was our most efficient player to start the year, had a mysterious head injury that took time to heal, and then when Bledsoe was shut down after February he became our best performer to end the season. He is not some scrub, or even just a trade filler, he's a legit player that could potentially score 18 a night on 50% shooting. He does lack range, but his defense has improved every season, and he's gotten stronger every year too. Don't knock him. I go back and forth between wanting to give up Chriss or Warren.

One angle i hadn't considered is that if PHX does acquire Kyrie it could ironically have the same effect the LBJ signing had on Kyrie but on Devin Booker ..they likely told him they were building around him as the franchise player but clearly he would no longer be the man if they land Irving .

[mademan]

I think the cavs will come off Jj and the Suns will compromise with both warren Chriss.

Kyrie/shump/rj

For

Bledsoe/warren/Chriss/Miami first

Then they should flip frye for delladova, since they'll need someone to fill in for the 80 games that one of Bledsoe or rose are injured

[mademan]

A Suns and Cavs deal would be very nice. Don't see what Cavs could really get in the short term that would trouble Celtics more than Kyrie has really. Ainge Would have took a little step closer to the Cavs this offseason.

Cavs downgrading for kyrie to Bledsoe and he Celtics upgrading from Bradley to Hayward isn't anywhere near enough to close the gap. Especially considering they haven't addressed any of their issues against Cleveland

[711takeover]

Celtics really haven't gained much, if anything at all on Cleveland this year, if they trade Kyrie for Bledsoe, and say improve bench by replacing Shumpert and Williams with Rose and Dudley for example. That and defense is better. Boston added Hayward and Tatum, but lost Bradley, Olynk, etc., probably a slight improvement. You have to remember, Cavs blew out Boston 4 games out of 5.

lol Boston has clearly gotten better.

"Slight improvement":
IN: Hayward, Tatum, Baynes, Marcus Morris, and Ojeleye and Zizic
OUT: Bradley, Olynk, Amir Johnson, Jerekbo, Green

Hayward > Bradley
Morris > Olynk
Tatum > Jerekbo
Baynes = Amir
Jerekbo and Green > Current 11-13th men

Celtics improved their starting and 9 deep lineup but lost that vital depth at the end of the bench lmao

[711takeover]

A Suns and Cavs deal would be very nice. Don't see what Cavs could really get in the short term that would trouble Celtics more than Kyrie has really. Ainge Would have took a little step closer to the Cavs this offseason.

Cavs downgrading for kyrie to Bledsoe and he Celtics upgrading from Bradley to Hayward isn't anywhere near enough to close the gap. Especially considering they haven't addressed any of their issues against Cleveland

I think Celtics additions have improved their team a lot. I would pick CLE in 7 but at least if the suns trade happens it will be a competitive series. I think you're underselling Hayward when you think he's not that much better than Bradley. Celtics got way more versatile this off season on offense and defense which should help vs the cavs by adding another scorer and playmaker and Morris is a good defender to put on love

[Benedict_Boozer]

I would take that deal - not a slam dunk IMO but Jackson and the Miami pick are assets that at minimum, can be moved for another major piece at the deadline if an impact maker becomes available. And if Lebron won't commit, the Cavs have to hedge their bets and make sure they are getting back some future assets.

[John Murdoch]

If you are a star caliber player who would want to play on a team where the other star constantly belittles your play and treats you like a servant/child? Lebron wouldn't accept that, so why would he expect a guy like Kyrie to?

Lebron has been acting like he is a GM and the alpha player, but anyone who has watched the NBA knows that GMs can't treat their star players like that anymore. They need some coddling. The fault is mostly on Lebron here. In no other situation in the NBA would a star player get treated like crap from his own team.

Im sure Jordan did this to Pippen but seeing how they are still good friends to this day im guessing Pippen naturally had a sidekick/Beta type of mentality so it didnt seem to bother him since they were winning. But yeah that old school "this is my team" mentality is fading away as team ball has become more prevalent. I also think Curry has served as an example to other super stars that you can still have fun and win without having to dominate your team mates and be overbearing

[Brauer]

Man I'm worried that Kyrie just turns you into a treadmill team and that giving up Jackson reduces your chances to get out of it. I think you should cement a clear young core then trade for an established player to fit alongsid it to make you a contender. Here, Kyrie might just make you good enough to where you can't get a top 7 pick and bad enough to where he might just walk away afterwards. It's actually a tough one imo.

[JonFromVA]

Read on Twitter

Take it FWIW but multiple alleged Suns and Cavs team sources have said a trade between the two will happen

Tony Rizzo is a hack. What special sources does he have that the main ESPN guys don't which allow him to report something like this?

I wouldn't put any real value in this. He's just hedging his bet here that a trade might happen between the two most likely partners.

Rizzo is Cleveland radio guy who has at least one solid source, so, he may know something. I don't really trust any of the rumor mongers; but I'd probably put Rizzo ahead of most of the ESPN crowd.

Either way, we'll see how serious Phoenix is about getting this done when Jackson becomes eligible to be traded.

[JonFromVA]

I wonder if Cleveland plans on holding onto Jackson or flipping him later on in the season when a difference maker inevitably becomes available.

Certainly that'd be on the table, but they also need to hedge their bets in case James leaves. For instance, PG13 is still going to be a free-agent at the end of the season. I personally wouldn't flip Jackson just to rent him and see if James and PG13 decide to stick around. It would have to be settled up front.

[Kempistry2]

How dare LeBron hold Kyrie back!

Where are you getting the notion Kyrie was "constantly belittled" by LeBron, or anyone for that matter? Kyrie's been wanting to leave Cleveland for years now and those first reports began to surface long before LeBron came back. Now, it's "LeBron's fault" he wants to leave? Nonsense...

Fact of the matter is Kyrie's seen the most success in his entire career alongside LeBron. The fact that he can't humble himself a bit, learn what it takes to truly lead a team from an all-time great until it's his time while enjoying the chance to compete for championships is indicative of a problem on Kyrie's end, not LeBron. Afterall, what team is Kyrie going to where he expects to compete? If it's anywhere out West; good luck dealing with Golden State. If it's anywhere out East; good luck dealing with LeBron or the Celtics. Kyrie isn't the caliber of player to lead a team to a championship on his own merits. But if he wants to waste the best years of his career playing for a low to mid-tier team "being the man" to get bounced out the 1st and 2nd rounds year after year then he's truly a delusional, selfish idiot. If he wanted out that badly then he should've never signed the extension.

Constantly bitching that your teammates suck is stupid.

I'm just saying that a good GM/teammate wouldn't alienate the second best player on the team. He may be a selfish idiot, but he's your selfish idiot and it's your job as leader to keep him onside.

If Lebron just played like a Duncan, this wouldn't happen. You never heard Duncan blaming Ginnobli or Parker. A leader takes the blame and spreads praise. Lebron does the opposite.

It seems you missed my question so I'll ask it again: Where are you getting the notion Kyrie was "constantly belittled" by LeBron, or anyone for that matter? What's your source LeBron alienated Kyrie in any way? How was Kyrie alienated? What was specifically said in regard to Kyrie? It appears your opinion is based on that foundation and I'm simply asking you to substantiate it. Frankly, everything else you said is moot, especially if the foundation of your point is ill-rooted.

There have been constant media reports that LeBron is unhappy with his teammates and Kyrie is one of his teammates. Lebron always acts like it's him and a bunch of guys. That tends to alienate teammates.

[Kempistry2]

If you are a star caliber player who would want to play on a team where the other star constantly belittles your play and treats you like a servant/child? Lebron wouldn't accept that, so why would he expect a guy like Kyrie to?

Lebron has been acting like he is a GM and the alpha player, but anyone who has watched the NBA knows that GMs can't treat their star players like that anymore. They need some coddling. The fault is mostly on Lebron here. In no other situation in the NBA would a star player get treated like crap from his own team.

Im sure Jordan did this to Pippen but seeing how they are still good friends to this day im guessing Pippen naturally had a sidekick/Beta type of mentality so it didnt seem to bother him since they were winning. But yeah that old school "this is my team" mentality is fading away as team ball has become more prevalent. I also think Curry has served as an example to other super stars that you can still have fun and win without having to dominate your team mates and be overbearing

Jordan also acted like one of the guys off the court, I got the impression he liked hanging out with his teammates and would shoot the **** with them. Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier were the same way, as are Tim Duncan and Dirk. Gretzky said the key to winning was making the least important player feel like the most important so they didn't tune out or feel like they weren't part of the team.

Does LeBron carry himself like this? I don't think so and I don't think Chris Paul does either. He thinks the other players "play for" him or are the reason he doesn't win. That's poor leadership. You should act like one of the guys and lead by example, not by holding yourself up on a pedestal and insulting your teammates. Steph doesn't do this and there's no need for LeBron too either.

[Kempistry2]

When have you ever heard Tom Brady say he would have won the championship if only his offensive line was better. Does he think this some years, yes I guarantee it. But you don't put that out there because it alienates your teammates, which is what LeBron has done. He's always held himself over the team, it's rare to hear him credit teammates and his whole King James chalk routine is all about ME as was the Decision. He's not a bad guy, just a poor leader. It's worth noting.

[MartinToVaught]

Jordan also acted like one of the guys off the court, I got the impression he liked hanging out with his teammates and would shoot the **** with them.

This is so false, it's not even funny. Read "The Jordan Rules" by Sam Smith if you want to know how Jordan actually treated his teammates.

[London2Boston]

A Suns and Cavs deal would be very nice. Don't see what Cavs could really get in the short term that would trouble Celtics more than Kyrie has really. Ainge Would have took a little step closer to the Cavs this offseason.

Cavs downgrading for kyrie to Bledsoe and he Celtics upgrading from Bradley to Hayward isn't anywhere near enough to close the gap. Especially considering they haven't addressed any of their issues against Cleveland

It's silly to think the gap hasn't been closed a little bit which is what I said. You can definitely say Now that Boston probably has the better backcourt now. There is still a big mismatch on the frontcourt, but no one is saying that Cavs are suddenly worse than The Celtics now.

[eitanr]

Just seems a bit premature for Phoenix. What do they get after this deal? The chance to maybe sniff the 8th seed? I think they should deal Bledsoe individually, but now is not the time to cash in for Kyrie

[MHZ]

Just seems a bit premature for Phoenix. What do they get after this deal? The chance to maybe sniff the 8th seed? I think they should deal Bledsoe individually, but now is not the time to cash in for Kyrie

I guess it's the old Morey model. Go get star level talents and figure it out. I'm quite confident they'll refuse to include their own picks, or ensure lottery protection is placed on them, because they're not a playoff team with Kyrie instead of Bledsoe.

I think Kyrie/Booker is a pretty brutal fit, personally. I don't know who on that roster is going to facilitate for others.

Breaking: New Nike Suns jerseys will have "Your turn / my turn" on the waistband. Probably.