Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion #5: A Serving of Irving?

[Sreister]

Am I the only one that finds it insane that 80% of you all would not trade Jackson for Irving straight up?

You are not the only one.

I wouldn't put Jackson in a package with Bled/pick.... but Jackson for Irving straight up? Yea I do that every day.

The only problem with that is we need a suitor for Bled. It can't be a 1 for 1 because then we have two starting pgs. You know what happens with you do that.

It's hard, but I keep going back to bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Kyrie is a known commodity, a known all star. JJ is unknown and has no guarantee to be as good as Kyrie. Potential is a dangerous drug to dip into. You can spend your life in "what if"s and never get a thing out of it.

I'm not saying I would or wouldn't do it, but Kyrie can help us, we know that. If we had a decent 'win now' trade for Bled and we did a Kyrie for JJ, then I think you do it. But you need a few dominoes to fall to make it work.

[Sun Scorched]

I get what you guys are saying, and while I still wouldn't trade JJ, I think you're right on conceptual value. But by all indications, we won't have to give up JJ so it may be a non-issue.

[NTB]

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[Shank]

Am I the only one that finds it insane that 80% of you all would not trade Jackson for Irving straight up?

Crazy right?

Proven NBA all-star vs. rookie without a jumpshot.

With the way JJ is talked about you'd think he was the second coming of Wiggins.

JJ is nothing like Wiggins

[AtheJ415]

Am I the only one that finds it insane that 80% of you all would not trade Jackson for Irving straight up?

Crazy right?

Proven NBA all-star vs. rookie without a jumpshot.

With the way JJ is talked about you'd think he was the second coming of Wiggins.

Are you under the impression that Wiggins has been all that good? I could make a real argument Warren has been better.

[Puff]

Am I the only one that finds it insane that 80% of you all would not trade Jackson for Irving straight up?

If we did not already have Bledsoe and a huge need at the three, I would trade Jackson straight up for him.

What would we do with both Bledsoe and Irving on our roster?

Who would be Kyrie's replacement in Cleveland? Surely not Derek Rose.

I and most everyone else I expect would much prefer Kyrie and Jackson.

[bwoolf2]

Am I the only one that finds it insane that 80% of you all would not trade Jackson for Irving straight up?

Crazy right?

Proven NBA all-star vs. rookie without a jumpshot.

With the way JJ is talked about you'd think he was the second coming of Wiggins.

JJ is nothing like Wiggins

Well if we are considering a straight up trade Bledsoe is still here, so from a team construction standpoint the loss of Jackson is greater than the arbitrage between Irving and Bledsoe.

[Bjorpa]

Well, the truth is Bledsoe is in no-man's land when it comes to Phoenix. He is just out of the age range of our core. Thus, trading for a PG is somewhat more ideal since it replaces Bledsoe. Butler is 27, while Kyrie is 25, and fits a bit better in a Bledsoe-centric deal. That said, I am not sure it is more than Butler got to begin with. I would personally much rather have Lavine and Lauri (plus Dunn) as a rebuilding team over Bledsoe, Chriss, and the Miami pick. Lavine really turned the corner last year. If you believe he will come back from his ACL fine (which is typical in today's sports world), he is the most valuable person in either Chicago or Cleveland's return, and Lauri is also very well thought of.

If you mean trading Jackson--then I agree. That would be more than either team got and I wouldn't be happy with that move. That said, I don't believe Jackson is going.

I don't disagree, but I'm not sure we offered Chicago the same package we are supposedly offering now. And Chicago for a pick swap, so it is esentially moving up 9 slots in the draft to get Lauri.

I'm not very high on Chriss, but I'm not to sure Lavine will be a star either.

But I get your point. They want to rebuild. Bledsoe does not help om that regard.
Not Subjective.

Much like Irving does not help is, when paired with Booker.
Subjective.

You're right about Bled not helping Chi in their rebuild. Too old and they want a youth movement. Bled doesn't fit that. I get it.

But saying Irving does not us when paired with Book, that's completely subjective. Not only that, but to me it's like a toss up. You don't know if they can or cannot play together, so why say it? Sure you can use stuff like "iso doesn't work with iso very well" and other things like that, but chemistry is so much deeper than just saying that. So NO, it's not like that.. AT ALL.

Sure, ut is more subjective than age.

But two back court players who have been playing terrible defensively worries me more than ISO play.
Kyrie and Booker can both be capable passers, if they CHOOSE to be.

[Villalobos]

With the way JJ is talked about you'd think he was the second coming of Wiggins.

Exactly. Wiggins doesn't defend, pass, or have any competitive fire. JJ isn't the second coming of Wiggins.

[JMac1]

I get what you guys are saying, and while I still wouldn't trade JJ, I think you're right on conceptual value. But by all indications, we won't have to give up JJ so it may be a non-issue.

Hope you are right. Call me a hypocrite because I'm pessimistic now. Kyrie Booker JJ would be to good to be true....

We would finally have solid players going forward.

[thamadkant]

Irving is a rich man's Knight, shoot-first all-star guard who doesn't play defense, been there done that, didn't work out too well...

I bet the hold up on any deal is that rookies who can't be traded yet are involved. I'd say we will see a deal done on the 4th or soon after.

Kyrie is closer to a 6'3 version of late 20s Kobe by eye test alone.

[Takingbaconback]

Sounds like Wiggins is off the table

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Don't see why Suns would have to put in Jackson if Wolves are out. Which other team can beat Suns offer of Bledsoe/prospects/pick other than the Celtics who they wont send Irving to?

[Mjee]

Cleveland has no choice but to trade him to us

Nobody else will give them anything better than Bledsoe and fillers

[Fo-Real]

Either accept the terms or keep him and see how training camp goes in Cavs land! We dont need you MAN!

[Villalobos]

Sounds like Wiggins is off the table

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Don't see why Suns would have to put in Jackson if Wolves are out. Which other team can beat Suns offer of Bledsoe/prospects/pick other than the Celtics who they wont send Irving to?

Bucks would be pretty good. Something like Middleton + Thon + Pick or Middleton + Brogdon + Pick. Dunno if that actually makes the Bucks better though. Middleton is really good and plays at both ends. The latter deal has the advantage of being young guys who help a lot right away.

Dunno why the Clippers aren't in this. They just got some decent young players in Harrell and Decker. Bev + one of them + DJ would be a good haul. Too much for them, I guess?

[AtheJ415]

Jumping the gun here, but assuming the trade is Bled + one of Warren/Chriss + protected pick for Irving/Frye, where does that leave us for FA next offseason?

The most obvious candidate to go after would be Cousins, but I am not certain if we would have a max in that scenario. Irving makes about equal to what Bled + Warren/Chriss do. Frye expires so he is irrelevant here.

From Spotrac it looks like if Warren leaves, we gain $10 mil from the cap hold removal. If Chriss leaves we only get about $4 mil in space. With Warren gone we go from $80 mil to $70 mil in cap used. The cap is projected to be 102, and we therefore might be close at 32, but we also need room for our draft picks. Might have to decline the option on Sauce to get there, which would be an additional 5.5...

It would be pretty awesome if we could find somebody to take on one of Tyson or Dudley at the deadline. That would save us Big Sauce.

[Mjee]

I would love Kyrie here. Top 4 point guard... but it has to be for the right price !

[JMac1]

Hmmmm...... been listening to Gambo for 47 minutes and nothing on the trade so far, not coming up in the next segment either. I wonder why?

[matt131]

Hmmmm...... been listening to Gambo for 47 minutes and nothing on the trade so far, not coming up in the next segment either. I wonder why?

He probably knows you're listening!

Haha but actually I don't know. I am not in Phoenix so I don't listen to his show, but I do think the MLB trade deadline was yesterday and the DBacks seemed to make some moves; maybe he is just focusing on that. Or maybe our FO told him to shut it since the deal is almost done and we are basically giving up nothing good and we don't want other teams to find out. lol

[Blonde]

If we get Kryie I'd rather not pursue Cousins in free agency. Actually I'd rather not pursue him either way, but if we have high usage/no defense in the backcourt why should we invest in a high usage/no defense center?