Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

[gino_giode]

If Kyrie had just told Cleveland this when the season ended they'd have a starting five right now of


Lebron
George
Thompson
Love
Rose

Wasn't Kyrie included in George trade offers? Isn't that part of why he's pissed?

Yep

Kyrie justifiably felt he was an untouchable on this team along with Bron. But when he sees team management acquiesce yet again to Bron in order to get him guys that only Bron can win with, it rightfully set Kyrie off the deep end . Context here matters since Kyrie has publicly stated he's been waiting patiently to make this his own team.

Plus there's the statement from Rob Parker on the Herd where Bron supposedly asked the team to trade Kyrie for CP3 even after they won their title. Remember earlier in that year Bron talked about his hope to have the banana boat team one day.

As much as it seems Kyrie is dissing Bron right now, Bron's been dissing him ever since he took back this team.

[MartinToVaught]

Jordan's reaction to losing was to blame his teammates and try to play GM, which is exactly what people are accusing LeBron of doing.

That is simply not true. Even after all these years secrets like that become known. I have watched MJ his entire career and not ONCE has he ever thrown a teammate under the bus. So find proof, or retract the statement.

Quotes from "The Jordan Rules" by Sam Smith:

"I hate being out there with those garbagemen. They don't get you the ball."

"They've got no idea what it's all about. The white guys, they work hard, but they don't have the talent. And the rest of them? Who knows what to expect? They're not good for much of anything."

"I hate when I have to read that in the papers the next day, that I couldn't do something. It wasn't my fault."

On Brad Sellers: "It's a hell of a lot easier to make Earl Monroe look good than it is Brad Sellers."

On Will Perdue: "He can't do anything with the ball. Don't give it to him."

On Stacey King: "Big, fat, fat guy. One rebound in three games. Power forward. Maybe they should call it powerless forward."

On Horace Grant: "You're an idiot. You've screwed up every play we ever ran. You're too stupid to even remember the plays. We ought to get rid of you."

On Bill Cartwright: "If you [pass the ball to Bill Cartwright], you'll never get the ball from me."

"Jordan believed that [Johnny] Dawkins would be the choice [in the 1987 draft], and he had told Dawkins so in pickup games they played in North Carolina. So when the Bulls skipped Dawkins for [Brad] Sellers, Jordan felt embarrassed."

"Jordan lobbied extensively during the 1988-89 season for a trade that would bring New Jersey's Buck Williams to the Bulls. Jordan didn't particularly care for Horace Grant, Krause's other pick in the 1987 Draft, never believing Grant would develop into a responsible player, and lobbied hard for Williams."

"I know what's gonna happen. We'll wait until the last minute and then they'll say something like they couldn't get a deal done because of the cap or somebody pulled out at the last minute. It happens here all the time. I don't know why I'm surprised every year."

"They're not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets, which they can do because of me. They won't make any deals to make us better."

"If I were a general manager, we'd be a better team."

"I want to see some serious moves from management, which I really haven't seen that much of yet..."

Jordan famously punched Steve Kerr, punched Jud Buechler and Will Perdue, and tried to start a fight with Robert Parish (but backed down when Parish made it clear he wasn't intimidated by him).

Less than three months ago, Michael Jordan... regularly rebuked Bulls GM Jerry Krause for failing to measure the bench to title specifications... So what if management didn't adhere to Air Supremacy's public outcry for Walter Davis or LaSalle Thompson?

After learning that NBA veteran and former North Carolina Tar Heel Walter Davis had been traded to Portland and not the Bulls, Jordan responded before a game against the Nets. "As soon as we get back, I'm calling (Jerry) Reinsdorf. Krause has messed everything up again. He can't do anything."

http://thebiglead.com/2017/02/07/jerry-krause-assertion-that-michael-jordan-never-lobbied-for-help-is-revisionist-bs/

Is that enough for you? In contrast, when LeBron asked for a backup point guard to run the offense in spot minutes last year, it was as if the world was ending.

[gino_giode]

I'm calling it now that if Kyrie is playing with the Cavs by next season's start, he will be sandbagging it and actively defer to LeBron every chance he gets. I'm expecting some Vince Carterish, hot potato BS where Kyrie just stands around and passes it. He'll be benched for Rose within the first week of the season. And Kyrie's trade value will tank so badly.

I know the Cavs are expecting a good return, but the league sees how the Pacers and Bulls were fleeced. It's getting dangerously close to the point where the Cavs should grab at whatever salvageable offer they can. I think the front office is overestimating how "mature" these guys can be to play together amidst all this drama.

[Stillwater]

If Irving isn't a Sun by the end of this week I would be shocked.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Jordan's reaction to losing was to blame his teammates and try to play GM, which is exactly what people are accusing LeBron of doing.

That is simply not true. Even after all these years secrets like that become known. I have watched MJ his entire career and not ONCE has he ever thrown a teammate under the bus. So find proof, or retract the statement.

Quotes from "The Jordan Rules" by Sam Smith:

"I hate being out there with those garbagemen. They don't get you the ball."

"They've got no idea what it's all about. The white guys, they work hard, but they don't have the talent. And the rest of them? Who knows what to expect? They're not good for much of anything."

"I hate when I have to read that in the papers the next day, that I couldn't do something. It wasn't my fault."

On Brad Sellers: "It's a hell of a lot easier to make Earl Monroe look good than it is Brad Sellers."

On Will Perdue: "He can't do anything with the ball. Don't give it to him."

On Stacey King: "Big, fat, fat guy. One rebound in three games. Power forward. Maybe they should call it powerless forward."

On Horace Grant: "You're an idiot. You've screwed up every play we ever ran. You're too stupid to even remember the plays. We ought to get rid of you."

On Bill Cartwright: "If you [pass the ball to Bill Cartwright], you'll never get the ball from me."

"Jordan believed that [Johnny] Dawkins would be the choice [in the 1987 draft], and he had told Dawkins so in pickup games they played in North Carolina. So when the Bulls skipped Dawkins for [Brad] Sellers, Jordan felt embarrassed."

"Jordan lobbied extensively during the 1988-89 season for a trade that would bring New Jersey's Buck Williams to the Bulls. Jordan didn't particularly care for Horace Grant, Krause's other pick in the 1987 Draft, never believing Grant would develop into a responsible player, and lobbied hard for Williams."

"I know what's gonna happen. We'll wait until the last minute and then they'll say something like they couldn't get a deal done because of the cap or somebody pulled out at the last minute. It happens here all the time. I don't know why I'm surprised every year."

"They're not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets, which they can do because of me. They won't make any deals to make us better."

"If I were a general manager, we'd be a better team."

"I want to see some serious moves from management, which I really haven't seen that much of yet..."

Jordan famously punched Steve Kerr, punched Jud Buechler and Will Perdue, and tried to start a fight with Robert Parish (but backed down when Parish made it clear he wasn't intimidated by him).

Less than three months ago, Michael Jordan... regularly rebuked Bulls GM Jerry Krause for failing to measure the bench to title specifications... So what if management didn't adhere to Air Supremacy's public outcry for Walter Davis or LaSalle Thompson?

After learning that NBA veteran and former North Carolina Tar Heel Walter Davis had been traded to Portland and not the Bulls, Jordan responded before a game against the Nets. "As soon as we get back, I'm calling (Jerry) Reinsdorf. Krause has messed everything up again. He can't do anything."

http://thebiglead.com/2017/02/07/jerry-krause-assertion-that-michael-jordan-never-lobbied-for-help-is-revisionist-bs/

Is that enough for you? In contrast, when LeBron asked for a backup point guard to run the offense in spot minutes last year, it was as if the world was ending.

These comparisons are so dumb.

LeBron PUBLICLY asked for moves to the roster.

When did Jordan ever publicly go out and say they needed more help, were top heavy, and beg for a backup Point Guard?

Those are not the same things. What Jordan did and said in private are fine. Nobody would criticize LeBron for conversations he had in private with David Griffin.

And Jordan did not "play GM" in terms of leaving his team every time things got rough and finding other star teammates to come with him.

We can give him a pass for leaving a bad Cleveland team, but he did it again in Miami, and is on the verge of leaving again this summer.

Your constant attempts to try to compare everything LeBron does with weak connections to Jordan are just flat out false.

[BasketballFan7]

That is simply not true. Even after all these years secrets like that become known. I have watched MJ his entire career and not ONCE has he ever thrown a teammate under the bus. So find proof, or retract the statement.

Quotes from "The Jordan Rules" by Sam Smith:

"I hate being out there with those garbagemen. They don't get you the ball."

"They've got no idea what it's all about. The white guys, they work hard, but they don't have the talent. And the rest of them? Who knows what to expect? They're not good for much of anything."

"I hate when I have to read that in the papers the next day, that I couldn't do something. It wasn't my fault."

On Brad Sellers: "It's a hell of a lot easier to make Earl Monroe look good than it is Brad Sellers."

On Will Perdue: "He can't do anything with the ball. Don't give it to him."

On Stacey King: "Big, fat, fat guy. One rebound in three games. Power forward. Maybe they should call it powerless forward."

On Horace Grant: "You're an idiot. You've screwed up every play we ever ran. You're too stupid to even remember the plays. We ought to get rid of you."

On Bill Cartwright: "If you [pass the ball to Bill Cartwright], you'll never get the ball from me."

"Jordan believed that [Johnny] Dawkins would be the choice [in the 1987 draft], and he had told Dawkins so in pickup games they played in North Carolina. So when the Bulls skipped Dawkins for [Brad] Sellers, Jordan felt embarrassed."

"Jordan lobbied extensively during the 1988-89 season for a trade that would bring New Jersey's Buck Williams to the Bulls. Jordan didn't particularly care for Horace Grant, Krause's other pick in the 1987 Draft, never believing Grant would develop into a responsible player, and lobbied hard for Williams."

"I know what's gonna happen. We'll wait until the last minute and then they'll say something like they couldn't get a deal done because of the cap or somebody pulled out at the last minute. It happens here all the time. I don't know why I'm surprised every year."

"They're not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets, which they can do because of me. They won't make any deals to make us better."

"If I were a general manager, we'd be a better team."

"I want to see some serious moves from management, which I really haven't seen that much of yet..."

Jordan famously punched Steve Kerr, punched Jud Buechler and Will Perdue, and tried to start a fight with Robert Parish (but backed down when Parish made it clear he wasn't intimidated by him).

Less than three months ago, Michael Jordan... regularly rebuked Bulls GM Jerry Krause for failing to measure the bench to title specifications... So what if management didn't adhere to Air Supremacy's public outcry for Walter Davis or LaSalle Thompson?

After learning that NBA veteran and former North Carolina Tar Heel Walter Davis had been traded to Portland and not the Bulls, Jordan responded before a game against the Nets. "As soon as we get back, I'm calling (Jerry) Reinsdorf. Krause has messed everything up again. He can't do anything."

http://thebiglead.com/2017/02/07/jerry-krause-assertion-that-michael-jordan-never-lobbied-for-help-is-revisionist-bs/

Is that enough for you? In contrast, when LeBron asked for a backup point guard to run the offense in spot minutes last year, it was as if the world was ending.

These comparisons are so dumb.

LeBron PUBLICLY asked for moves to the roster.

When did Jordan ever publicly go out and say they needed more help, were top heavy, and beg for a backup Point Guard?

Those are not the same things. What Jordan did and said in private are fine. Nobody would criticize LeBron for conversations he had in private with David Griffin.

And Jordan did not "play GM" in terms of leaving his team every time things got rough and finding other star teammates to come with him.

We can give him a pass for leaving a bad Cleveland team, but he did it again in Miami, and is on the verge of leaving again this summer.

Your constant attempts to try to compare everything LeBron does with weak connections to Jordan are just flat out false.

[jbk1234]

Wasn't Kyrie included in George trade offers? Isn't that part of why he's pissed?

Yep

Kyrie justifiably felt he was an untouchable on this team along with Bron. But when he sees team management acquiesce yet again to Bron in order to get him guys that only Bron can win with, it rightfully set Kyrie off the deep end . Context here matters since Kyrie has publicly stated he's been waiting patiently to make this his own team.

Plus there's the statement from Rob Parker on the Herd where Bron supposedly asked the team to trade Kyrie for CP3 even after they won their title. Remember earlier in that year Bron talked about his hope to have the banana boat team one day.

As much as it seems Kyrie is dissing Bron right now, Bron's been dissing him ever since he took back this team.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You managed to be like 100% wrong on what actually happened. If LBJ had signed off on a Kyrie trade pre-draft, he'd be gone.

[xfactor]

Read on Twitter

[mademan]

That is simply not true. Even after all these years secrets like that become known. I have watched MJ his entire career and not ONCE has he ever thrown a teammate under the bus. So find proof, or retract the statement.

Quotes from "The Jordan Rules" by Sam Smith:

"I hate being out there with those garbagemen. They don't get you the ball."

"They've got no idea what it's all about. The white guys, they work hard, but they don't have the talent. And the rest of them? Who knows what to expect? They're not good for much of anything."

"I hate when I have to read that in the papers the next day, that I couldn't do something. It wasn't my fault."

On Brad Sellers: "It's a hell of a lot easier to make Earl Monroe look good than it is Brad Sellers."

On Will Perdue: "He can't do anything with the ball. Don't give it to him."

On Stacey King: "Big, fat, fat guy. One rebound in three games. Power forward. Maybe they should call it powerless forward."

On Horace Grant: "You're an idiot. You've screwed up every play we ever ran. You're too stupid to even remember the plays. We ought to get rid of you."

On Bill Cartwright: "If you [pass the ball to Bill Cartwright], you'll never get the ball from me."

"Jordan believed that [Johnny] Dawkins would be the choice [in the 1987 draft], and he had told Dawkins so in pickup games they played in North Carolina. So when the Bulls skipped Dawkins for [Brad] Sellers, Jordan felt embarrassed."

"Jordan lobbied extensively during the 1988-89 season for a trade that would bring New Jersey's Buck Williams to the Bulls. Jordan didn't particularly care for Horace Grant, Krause's other pick in the 1987 Draft, never believing Grant would develop into a responsible player, and lobbied hard for Williams."

"I know what's gonna happen. We'll wait until the last minute and then they'll say something like they couldn't get a deal done because of the cap or somebody pulled out at the last minute. It happens here all the time. I don't know why I'm surprised every year."

"They're not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets, which they can do because of me. They won't make any deals to make us better."

"If I were a general manager, we'd be a better team."

"I want to see some serious moves from management, which I really haven't seen that much of yet..."

Jordan famously punched Steve Kerr, punched Jud Buechler and Will Perdue, and tried to start a fight with Robert Parish (but backed down when Parish made it clear he wasn't intimidated by him).

Less than three months ago, Michael Jordan... regularly rebuked Bulls GM Jerry Krause for failing to measure the bench to title specifications... So what if management didn't adhere to Air Supremacy's public outcry for Walter Davis or LaSalle Thompson?

After learning that NBA veteran and former North Carolina Tar Heel Walter Davis had been traded to Portland and not the Bulls, Jordan responded before a game against the Nets. "As soon as we get back, I'm calling (Jerry) Reinsdorf. Krause has messed everything up again. He can't do anything."

http://thebiglead.com/2017/02/07/jerry-krause-assertion-that-michael-jordan-never-lobbied-for-help-is-revisionist-bs/

Is that enough for you? In contrast, when LeBron asked for a backup point guard to run the offense in spot minutes last year, it was as if the world was ending.

These comparisons are so dumb.

LeBron PUBLICLY asked for moves to the roster.

When did Jordan ever publicly go out and say they needed more help, were top heavy, and beg for a backup Point Guard?

Those are not the same things. What Jordan did and said in private are fine. Nobody would criticize LeBron for conversations he had in private with David Griffin.

And Jordan did not "play GM" in terms of leaving his team every time things got rough and finding other star teammates to come with him.

We can give him a pass for leaving a bad Cleveland team, but he did it again in Miami, and is on the verge of leaving again this summer.

Your constant attempts to try to compare everything LeBron does with weak connections to Jordan are just flat out false.

ummmm. What arguments are you reading?

mplsfonz23: Find proof that MJ threw his teammates under the bus.

MtV: Mountains of MJ quotes throwing his teammates under the bus

You: "Well MJ never did this oddly specific thing Lebron did"

"I know what's gonna happen. We'll wait until the last minute and then they'll say something like they couldn't get a deal done because of the cap or somebody pulled out at the last minute. It happens here all the time. I don't know why I'm surprised every year."

How is that different than what Lebron does?

[sunskerr]

There's probably a bit of a stand off. I just hope the front office doesn't cave on Josh Jackson because there is a lot of media/big money interest trying to pressure the Suns into emptying their piggy bank for LeBron & the Cavs. This seems to happen a lot to teams in similar positions where more successful franchises/larger markets/the media have this bs about them that they can just grab any player they want from the less successful franchise.

But the thing here is that the Suns don't need Irving. They can just as easily keep Bledsoe and some other asset(s) and stay the course. Maybe the Cavs can even trade Irving to another team. Nothing gained but nothing risked. They would still have some great young talent to develop. The Cavs on the other hand are risking going in to the season with a very unhappy star player. Make no mistake - the Cavaliers are not in the driver's seat for trade negotiations with any team.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Quotes from "The Jordan Rules" by Sam Smith:

"I hate being out there with those garbagemen. They don't get you the ball."

"They've got no idea what it's all about. The white guys, they work hard, but they don't have the talent. And the rest of them? Who knows what to expect? They're not good for much of anything."

"I hate when I have to read that in the papers the next day, that I couldn't do something. It wasn't my fault."

On Brad Sellers: "It's a hell of a lot easier to make Earl Monroe look good than it is Brad Sellers."

On Will Perdue: "He can't do anything with the ball. Don't give it to him."

On Stacey King: "Big, fat, fat guy. One rebound in three games. Power forward. Maybe they should call it powerless forward."

On Horace Grant: "You're an idiot. You've screwed up every play we ever ran. You're too stupid to even remember the plays. We ought to get rid of you."

On Bill Cartwright: "If you [pass the ball to Bill Cartwright], you'll never get the ball from me."

"Jordan believed that [Johnny] Dawkins would be the choice [in the 1987 draft], and he had told Dawkins so in pickup games they played in North Carolina. So when the Bulls skipped Dawkins for [Brad] Sellers, Jordan felt embarrassed."

"Jordan lobbied extensively during the 1988-89 season for a trade that would bring New Jersey's Buck Williams to the Bulls. Jordan didn't particularly care for Horace Grant, Krause's other pick in the 1987 Draft, never believing Grant would develop into a responsible player, and lobbied hard for Williams."

"I know what's gonna happen. We'll wait until the last minute and then they'll say something like they couldn't get a deal done because of the cap or somebody pulled out at the last minute. It happens here all the time. I don't know why I'm surprised every year."

"They're not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets, which they can do because of me. They won't make any deals to make us better."

"If I were a general manager, we'd be a better team."

"I want to see some serious moves from management, which I really haven't seen that much of yet..."

Jordan famously punched Steve Kerr, punched Jud Buechler and Will Perdue, and tried to start a fight with Robert Parish (but backed down when Parish made it clear he wasn't intimidated by him).


http://thebiglead.com/2017/02/07/jerry-krause-assertion-that-michael-jordan-never-lobbied-for-help-is-revisionist-bs/

Is that enough for you? In contrast, when LeBron asked for a backup point guard to run the offense in spot minutes last year, it was as if the world was ending.

These comparisons are so dumb.

LeBron PUBLICLY asked for moves to the roster.

When did Jordan ever publicly go out and say they needed more help, were top heavy, and beg for a backup Point Guard?

Those are not the same things. What Jordan did and said in private are fine. Nobody would criticize LeBron for conversations he had in private with David Griffin.

And Jordan did not "play GM" in terms of leaving his team every time things got rough and finding other star teammates to come with him.

We can give him a pass for leaving a bad Cleveland team, but he did it again in Miami, and is on the verge of leaving again this summer.

Your constant attempts to try to compare everything LeBron does with weak connections to Jordan are just flat out false.

ummmm. What arguments are you reading?

mplsfonz23: Find proof that MJ threw his teammates under the bus.

MtV: Mountains of MJ quotes throwing his teammates under the bus

You: "Well MJ never did this oddly specific thing Lebron did"

"I know what's gonna happen. We'll wait until the last minute and then they'll say something like they couldn't get a deal done because of the cap or somebody pulled out at the last minute. It happens here all the time. I don't know why I'm surprised every year."

How is that different than what Lebron does?

First of all nothing in that book is provable. MJ and many of his teammates have claimed that the things written in that book are false.

Why do we have to treat them as facts when there is no proof?

The things LeBron said were all public and indisputable. There is no evidence of Jordan ever going to the media and criticizing his teammates in that way.

None of those proves that MJ threw his teammates "under the bus."

You think MJ having heated arguments with Steve Kerr means he was throwing him under the bus?

None of those quotes are the same as what LeBron does.

He publicly diminishes his team, constantly claims he doesn't have enough help, and holds his team hostage every time hes in a contract year because he bounces from team to team.

Thats not what MJ did at all.

[LivingLegend]

There's probably a bit of a stand off. I just hope the front office doesn't cave on Josh Jackson because there is a lot of media/big money interest trying to pressure the Suns into emptying their piggy bank for LeBron & the Cavs. This seems to happen a lot to teams in similar positions where more successful franchises/larger markets/the media have this bs about them that they can just grab any player they want from the less successful franchise.

But the thing here is that the Suns don't need Irving. They can just as easily keep Bledsoe and some other asset(s) and stay the course. Maybe the Cavs can even trade Irving to another team. Nothing gained but nothing risked. They would still have some great young talent to develop. The Cavs on the other hand are risking going in to the season with a very unhappy star player. Make no mistake - the Cavaliers are not in the driver's seat for trade negotiations with any team.

Let me help you out. You are getting arguably a top 15 player in basketball and your worried about giving up a guy who wasnt even a top 3 pick in the draft who you have no idea will be good or not.

The Cavs gave up the #1 overall pick in the draft who might be twice the prospect Jackson is for Kevin Love. You would agree that Kyrie is better than Kevin Love right? Then why are some fans thinking Josh Jackson is some sort of untradable sure-fire future star.

I get the 'keep building' mentality but Kyrie is 25 years old, Eric Bledsoe has only played 2 healthy seasons in 7 years and Josh Jackson is a good not great prospect. Kyrie IS your 'building' piece who has already established himself as a 4x All-Star still developing.

[LikeABosh]

Read on Twitter

[LivingLegend]

Read on Twitter

I was listening when this happened. Heres the breakdown.

--They were in another segment talking about the Indians or something.
--The producer of the show interrupts and says a local reporter/beat writer was on the phone for Tony Rizzo (the guy talking)
--Rizzo asked if it was something they could share live or if it was private.
--The producer said IDK you could share it on air if you want
--Rizzo said he will call him back after the segment
--After they came back from commercial and got back into Cavs talk he dropped this soundbite.

Take it for what you will but Rizzo is pretty tight with Dan Gilbert. He was in the draft room as a guest with Dan when they got Kyrie. Not saying his word and sources are gospel, but usually when he drops stuff like this there is some credibility behind it.

[clyde21]

There's probably a bit of a stand off. I just hope the front office doesn't cave on Josh Jackson because there is a lot of media/big money interest trying to pressure the Suns into emptying their piggy bank for LeBron & the Cavs. This seems to happen a lot to teams in similar positions where more successful franchises/larger markets/the media have this bs about them that they can just grab any player they want from the less successful franchise.

But the thing here is that the Suns don't need Irving. They can just as easily keep Bledsoe and some other asset(s) and stay the course. Maybe the Cavs can even trade Irving to another team. Nothing gained but nothing risked. They would still have some great young talent to develop. The Cavs on the other hand are risking going in to the season with a very unhappy star player. Make no mistake - the Cavaliers are not in the driver's seat for trade negotiations with any team.

Let me help you out. You are getting arguably a top 15 player in basketball and your worried about giving up a guy who wasnt even a top 3 pick in the draft who you have no idea will be good or not.

The Cavs gave up the #1 overall pick in the draft who might be twice the prospect Jackson is for Kevin Love. You would agree that Kyrie is better than Kevin Love right? Then why are some fans thinking Josh Jackson is some sort of untradable sure-fire future star.

I get the 'keep building' mentality but Kyrie is 25 years old, Eric Bledsoe has only played 2 healthy seasons in 7 years and Josh Jackson is a good not great prospect. Kyrie IS your 'building' piece who has already established himself as a 4x All-Star still developing.

I'll see your Kevin Love trade and raise you Jimmy Butler. Or Paul George. Or Chris Paul.

The Suns should not cave on Josh Jackson. Eric Bledsoe, Tyson Chandler + one of Warren/Chriss/Bender or walk away.

[Euroballer]

I found this interesting. Krause was hated by all, but even so it proves that no player, even the GOAT should have control of the GM position too (like Lebron).

Anyway, I was interested in if Jordan had a point, so I looked it up.

"Jordan believed that [Johnny] Dawkins would be the choice [in the 1987 draft], and he had told Dawkins so in pickup games they played in North Carolina. So when the Bulls skipped Dawkins for [Brad] Sellers, Jordan felt embarrassed."

Johnny Dawkins, first 5 seasons: 14-6-3
Brad Sellers, first 5 seasons: 7-3-1

Actually Sellers didn't make it full 5 seasons, out of the league in fifth season. Seems like Jordan was right. Sellers was a complete dud.

"Jordan lobbied extensively during the 1988-89 season for a trade that would bring New Jersey's Buck Williams to the Bulls. Jordan didn't particularly care for Horace Grant, Krause's other pick in the 1987 Draft, never believing Grant would develop into a responsible player, and lobbied hard for Williams."

Ok, quite interesting.

From 89-93 Buck Williams averaged: 11-9 and led the league in FG% twice.

From 89-93 Horace Grant averaged: 13-9 with better defense.

Wash. Horace was better, but Buck Williams was a decent player.

After learning that NBA veteran and former North Carolina Tar Heel Walter Davis had been traded to Portland and not the Bulls, Jordan responded before a game against the Nets. "As soon as we get back, I'm calling (Jerry) Reinsdorf. Krause has messed everything up again. He can't do anything."

Walter Davis had a very good career of 19ppg and was a 36 year old vet when MJ supposedly lobbied for him.

Let's recap, what did Jordan lobby for:

A 10-4 rookie season point guard

An 11-9 vet power forward

A 36 year old vet coming of a 17ppg season.

I would hardly call that unreasonable.

This is the difference between MJ and Lebron. MJ just wanted a team "good enough". Just a team with an adequate rebounding power forward and some vet scoring. That's it. Lebron wants 2 All Stars.

[BasketballFan7]

With the timing of all the smoke, it leads me to believe that Bledsoe and Jackson is going to happen for Cleveland, which is obviously close to a slam dunk if it does transpire. The only question becomes if they will flip Jackson for another play now guy at the deadline.

[LivingLegend]

If Irving isn't a Sun by the end of this week I would be shocked.

Agreed, I think its all comes down to what is in the package and I doubt Dan Gilbert accepts anything less than Bledsoe/Jackson. It will be interesting to see if anything else in involved like picks, Shump, Dudley, ect.

[sunskerr]

There's probably a bit of a stand off. I just hope the front office doesn't cave on Josh Jackson because there is a lot of media/big money interest trying to pressure the Suns into emptying their piggy bank for LeBron & the Cavs. This seems to happen a lot to teams in similar positions where more successful franchises/larger markets/the media have this bs about them that they can just grab any player they want from the less successful franchise.

But the thing here is that the Suns don't need Irving. They can just as easily keep Bledsoe and some other asset(s) and stay the course. Maybe the Cavs can even trade Irving to another team. Nothing gained but nothing risked. They would still have some great young talent to develop. The Cavs on the other hand are risking going in to the season with a very unhappy star player. Make no mistake - the Cavaliers are not in the driver's seat for trade negotiations with any team.

Let me help you out. You are getting arguably a top 15 player in basketball and your worried about giving up a guy who wasnt even a top 3 pick in the draft who you have no idea will be good or not.

The Cavs gave up the #1 overall pick in the draft who might be twice the prospect Jackson is for Kevin Love. You would agree that Kyrie is better than Kevin Love right? Then why are some fans thinking Josh Jackson is some sort of untradable sure-fire future star.

I get the 'keep building' mentality but Kyrie is 25 years old, Eric Bledsoe has only played 2 healthy seasons in 7 years and Josh Jackson is a good not great prospect. Kyrie IS your 'building' piece who has already established himself as a 4x All-Star still developing.

I'll see your Kevin Love trade and raise you Jimmy Butler. Or Paul George. Or Chris Paul.

The Suns should not cave on Josh Jackson. Eric Bledsoe, Tyson Chandler + one of Warren/Chriss/Bender or walk away.

Exactly. Recent precedent is more reliable than a few years ago. Also, there is no reason to suddenly cut off at "not even a top 3 pick" when you're talking about the #4 pick. That's incredible cherry picking, and you're trying to use that to diminish his value as a building block, which is fallacious thinking. If you only liken Jackson to a "good not great prospect" then take Miami's draft pick or one of Warren or Chriss. Your criticism of Jackson doesn't match up with your want of him.

To add to that, Irving hasn't mentioned the Suns as a place he'd like to land, so we wouldn't risk him walking on us in two years and not having Josh Jackson.

The facts are that we don't need Irving whilst he wants off your team. Looking at those recent trades for Butler, George, Paul, even Cousins, you should feel fortunate that a player of Eric Bledsoe's quality is being discussed in these rumors.

[LivingLegend]

Let me help you out. You are getting arguably a top 15 player in basketball and your worried about giving up a guy who wasnt even a top 3 pick in the draft who you have no idea will be good or not.

The Cavs gave up the #1 overall pick in the draft who might be twice the prospect Jackson is for Kevin Love. You would agree that Kyrie is better than Kevin Love right? Then why are some fans thinking Josh Jackson is some sort of untradable sure-fire future star.

I get the 'keep building' mentality but Kyrie is 25 years old, Eric Bledsoe has only played 2 healthy seasons in 7 years and Josh Jackson is a good not great prospect. Kyrie IS your 'building' piece who has already established himself as a 4x All-Star still developing.

I'll see your Kevin Love trade and raise you Jimmy Butler. Or Paul George. Or Chris Paul.

The Suns should not cave on Josh Jackson. Eric Bledsoe, Tyson Chandler + one of Warren/Chriss/Bender or walk away.

Exactly. Recent precedent is more reliable than a few years ago. Also, there is no reason to suddenly cut off at "not even a top 3 pick" when you're talking about the #4 pick. That's incredible cherry picking, and you're trying to use that to diminish his value as a building block, which is fallacious thinking. If you only liken Jackson to a "good not great prospect" then take Miami's draft pick or one of Warren or Chriss. Your criticism of Jackson doesn't match up with your want of him.

To add to that, Irving hasn't mentioned the Suns as a place he'd like to land, so we wouldn't risk him walking on us in two years and not having Josh Jackson.

The facts are that we don't need Irving whilst he wants off your team. Looking at those recent trades for Butler, George, Paul, even Cousins, you should feel fortunate that a player of Eric Bledsoe's quality is being discussed in these rumors.

And I will raise you Paul George has 1 year left on his contract, Kyrie has 2 years. And I will double down with Jimmy Butler is 28 and Kyrie is 25.