Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion #5: A Serving of Irving?

[King4Day]

Update:

The Suns would've traded Bledsoe, Jackson and Miami's first round IF Kyrie Irving would've committed to an extension. However, Kyrie isn't committed to anyone at this moment.

Having said this, the Suns WILL NOT offer Jackson for Irving under any circumstances. That's part of the issue as to why every team is low balling for Irving.

* and by agreing to an extension, they mean giving his word which he isn't.

That makes me sick to read.
I'm a little confused. Are you saying we would have before the draft, had he committed? But now that we have Jackson, we won't?
Seeing as 'any circumstance' would technically include if he committed.

[Shank]

soooo glad kyrie said he will not commit to any teams after his current contract. He obviously is saying that cause he hates the cavs and wants them to get a crap return for him.

And part of the reason for him saying that is because he knows it's highly likely the suns trade Josh Jackson if he commits to us. I'm betting my bottom dollar he would LOVE to play with Josh Jackson

[King4Day]

soooo glad kyrie said he will not commit to any teams after his current contract. He obviously is saying that cause he hates the cavs and wants them to get a crap return for him.

And part of the reason for him saying that is because he knows it's highly likely the suns trade Josh Jackson if he commits to us. I'm betting my bottom dollar he would LOVE to play with Josh Jackson

That's actually a good point. He is prob talking to the Suns brass via intermediary's. They are saying who the Suns should be most concerned with hanging onto in order to acquire him.

Dealing Bledsoe, Jackson, and a pick is actually an overpay for Kyrie. Not worth it and would be the first move where, from the get-go, it looks like McD lost a trade.
The Knight and IT trades were a wait and see approach. I think most felt we received a nice return for Dragic considering the circumstances.

[King4Day]

Here's a trade rumor New Yorker' s were going back and forth on Reddit:

Phx out:
Eric Bledsoe, Tyson Chandler, Jared Dudley

Phx in:
Frank ntilikina, Ryan Anderson, channing frye

Houston out:
Ryan Anderson, Trevor ariza

Houston in:
Carmelo anthony, Richard jefferson

New York out:
Carmelo anthony, Frank Ntilikina, 1st round pick

New York in:
Kyrie irving, Jared Dudley

Cleveland out:
Kyrie irving, Richard jefferson, channing frye

Cleveland in:
Eric Bledsoe, Tyson Chandler, Trevor ariza, 2018 1st round pick pick/knicks

I vote NEVER on Ryan Anderson here ever!

I really do not like this deal - but there is only one way - ONE way taking on Anderson - somebody is taking Knight


that's the only way and Anderson makes more so there is that. Dudley, Chandler roll off in 2019 - but you would need Anderson or Knight, not both

Not a fan of taking back Anderson without dumping Knight. If this was Fox instead of Ntilikina, I'd think about it more.

[sunsbg]

People overvalue mid-lotto picks, most don't ever live up to their potential and many are complete busts. This team as currently constructed doesn't need more mid-lotto guys on the bench that we hope can develop, we need a star to put alongside Booker. Is Kyrie that guy? I don't know, but I think there's a chance he could be. And if the price to acquire isn't overally high and I don't think Bledsoe, Miami 18, Chriss, Reed is; than you go get him.

Personally I think you are grossly overvaluing Kyrie. You are acting like he is a superstar; one of the basic ideas behind who is a superstar is that they make their teammates better. There is no one who claim that Kyrie makes his teammates better only that he is a great scorer. I think that this team needs to continue to build around the lottery for another year or so and the development and talent level of the team will push them back into close to the playoffs and in another year they will start to push into the playoffs.

So much this.

[LukasBMW]

If we even considered trading Jackson...shame on us. Even if Kyrie would have extended.

It makes more and more sense to just suffer through one more season, get two picks (us + Miami), then extend TJ and try to sign a few free agents then.

[GDFTony]

People overvalue mid-lotto picks, most don't ever live up to their potential and many are complete busts. This team as currently constructed doesn't need more mid-lotto guys on the bench that we hope can develop, we need a star to put alongside Booker. Is Kyrie that guy? I don't know, but I think there's a chance he could be. And if the price to acquire isn't overally high and I don't think Bledsoe, Miami 18, Chriss, Reed is; than you go get him.

Personally I think you are grossly overvaluing Kyrie. You are acting like he is a superstar; one of the basic ideas behind who is a superstar is that they make their teammates better. There is no one who claim that Kyrie makes his teammates better only that he is a great scorer. I think that this team needs to continue to build around the lottery for another year or so and the development and talent level of the team will push them back into close to the playoffs and in another year they will start to push into the playoffs.

Did Kobe make his teammates better? Shaq? AI? T-Mac? Amare in NY?

Sure, they made their teammates better by taking pressure off of them offensively or defensively (like Kyrie would do on the offensive end) but did they actually make their teammates better players in any other form?

How many rookies do you guys want on this team? What if we strike out on all of them? What if this is as good as Bender/Chriss are going to get? All of this what if when you can move a few pieces to get a young, SUPERSTAR who can contribute NOW.

[AZWildByNature]

Update:

The Suns would've traded Bledsoe, Jackson and Miami's first round IF Kyrie Irving would've committed to an extension. However, Kyrie isn't committed to anyone at this moment.

Having said this, the Suns WILL NOT offer Jackson for Irving under any circumstances. That's part of the issue as to why every team is low balling for Irving.

* and by agreing to an extension, they mean giving his word which he isn't.

That makes me sick to read.
I'm a little confused. Are you saying we would have before the draft, had he committed? But now that we have Jackson, we won't?
Seeing as 'any circumstance' would technically include if he committed.

I think if Jackson would have been picked by the Celtics, the Draft Day trade would have been done. But since it didn't and the Cavs FO was in flux, they still think that they (LBJ) can get Bledsoe and Jackson for Kyrie. Since Kyrie's trade request has been made public, the Suns have leverage to lowball the Cavs. I doubt that even if Kyrie gives the Suns a verbal promise to commit longterm, they would still trade Jackson to get him.

[Preacherpj]

People overvalue mid-lotto picks, most don't ever live up to their potential and many are complete busts. This team as currently constructed doesn't need more mid-lotto guys on the bench that we hope can develop, we need a star to put alongside Booker. Is Kyrie that guy? I don't know, but I think there's a chance he could be. And if the price to acquire isn't overally high and I don't think Bledsoe, Miami 18, Chriss, Reed is; than you go get him.

Personally I think you are grossly overvaluing Kyrie. You are acting like he is a superstar; one of the basic ideas behind who is a superstar is that they make their teammates better. There is no one who claim that Kyrie makes his teammates better only that he is a great scorer. I think that this team needs to continue to build around the lottery for another year or so and the development and talent level of the team will push them back into close to the playoffs and in another year they will start to push into the playoffs.

I don't think he's a superstar, there's like 6 of those guys on the planet, but I think he's right in that next tier and would immediately be the best player on our team, while also being young enough to grow with our group of tadpoles. I find it weird how comfortable so many fans are with just not being competitive for the next three or four years. I don't want to make any rash decisions to try and win right now, but acquiring a young and proven all-star guard to grow with our group - especially if it doesn't cost Jackson/Booker -- that's a move you almost have to make. The likelihood of Chriss and Bender ever becoming as accomplished as Kyrie is right now isn't very high.

I've seen people in this thread compare him to Brandon Knight and complain he doesn't box out -- but what he does offensively is almost overlooked by people in this thread.

[sunsbg]

People overvalue mid-lotto picks, most don't ever live up to their potential and many are complete busts. This team as currently constructed doesn't need more mid-lotto guys on the bench that we hope can develop, we need a star to put alongside Booker. Is Kyrie that guy? I don't know, but I think there's a chance he could be. And if the price to acquire isn't overally high and I don't think Bledsoe, Miami 18, Chriss, Reed is; than you go get him.

Personally I think you are grossly overvaluing Kyrie. You are acting like he is a superstar; one of the basic ideas behind who is a superstar is that they make their teammates better. There is no one who claim that Kyrie makes his teammates better only that he is a great scorer. I think that this team needs to continue to build around the lottery for another year or so and the development and talent level of the team will push them back into close to the playoffs and in another year they will start to push into the playoffs.

Did Kobe make his teammates better? Shaq? AI? T-Mac? Amare in NY?

Sure, they made their teammates better by taking pressure off of them offensively or defensively (like Kyrie would do on the offensive end) but did they actually make their teammates better players in any other form?

How many rookies do you guys want on this team? What if we strike out on all of them? What if this is as good as Bender/Chriss are going to get? All of this what if when you can move a few pieces to get a young, SUPERSTAR who can contribute NOW.

What if Irving is a ball hog many believe he is and this hinders Booker's and Jackson's development ?

Personally I just not like his style of play. Sure he will make Sarver some money selling jerseys, but does it make the team better in the long run ? How ? Another Earth-is-flat moron will sign with the team ?

[NTB]

Read on Twitter

[bwgood77]

I just have a problem having Irving for two years versus Bledsoe for 2, Jackson for 8-9, and a high 1st round pick for 8-9. Really we saw Dwight screw over the Lakers and we've tasted this **** before with McDyess. Bledose and Miami 2018 1st and maybe, maybe a second round pick. Otherwise stand pat.

McDyess keeps popping in my head too. What a disaster that was. And that's when we were good and really had a solid reputation as a place to play.

[Preacherpj]

Personally I think you are grossly overvaluing Kyrie. You are acting like he is a superstar; one of the basic ideas behind who is a superstar is that they make their teammates better. There is no one who claim that Kyrie makes his teammates better only that he is a great scorer. I think that this team needs to continue to build around the lottery for another year or so and the development and talent level of the team will push them back into close to the playoffs and in another year they will start to push into the playoffs.

Did Kobe make his teammates better? Shaq? AI? T-Mac? Amare in NY?

Sure, they made their teammates better by taking pressure off of them offensively or defensively (like Kyrie would do on the offensive end) but did they actually make their teammates better players in any other form?

How many rookies do you guys want on this team? What if we strike out on all of them? What if this is as good as Bender/Chriss are going to get? All of this what if when you can move a few pieces to get a young, SUPERSTAR who can contribute NOW.

What if Irving is a ball hog many believe he is and this hinders Booker's and Jackson's development ?

Personally I just not like his style of play. Sure he will make Sarver some money selling jerseys, but does it make the team better in the long run ? How ? Another Earth-is-flat moron will sign with the team ?

Of course Irving is a ball-hog, most great scorers are. Booker is a ball-hog too; what if he hinders Jackson's development? And I do think having Irving on the roster makes us more attractive to the next free agent, and if it doesn't work out in a year you flip him for a couple draft picks.

I really don't think the risk is as massive as people are saying it is. (I say this thinking no package is going to include Josh Jackson)

[Preacherpj]

I just have a problem having Irving for two years versus Bledsoe for 2, Jackson for 8-9, and a high 1st round pick for 8-9. Really we saw Dwight screw over the Lakers and we've tasted this **** before with McDyess. Bledose and Miami 2018 1st and maybe, maybe a second round pick. Otherwise stand pat.

McDyess keeps popping in my head too. What a disaster that was. And that's when we were good and really had a solid reputation as a place to play.

Yup, that was awful. And then we went out and spent 60 million on Gugliotta who couldn't stay healthy.

[King4Day]

I mentioned the idea/rumor to Gambo that had Kyrie committed, the Suns were going to trade Jackson in the deal.
He responded quickly saying "Totally not true"

[Puff]

Update:

The Suns would've traded Bledsoe, Jackson and Miami's first round IF Kyrie Irving would've committed to an extension. However, Kyrie isn't committed to anyone at this moment.

Having said this, the Suns WILL NOT offer Jackson for Irving under any circumstances. That's part of the issue as to why every team is low balling for Irving.

* and by agreing to an extension, they mean giving his word which he isn't.

Is this current info? When did you get this? Just wondering.

I really like Ray Ray posts but the validity of this post has big question marks, IMO.

I don't believe Jackson was ever put on the table by us but Cleveland really wants him and demanded him. Our team did due diligence and said no.

I think the same thing can be said in regards for Booker.

[bwgood77]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/02/report-kyrie-irving-not-ready-to-commit-to-any-team-that-trades-for-him/

I still say 95% he bolts. Pass.

By contrast, if Irving plays out his contract then opts out in 2019, his max salary projects to be about $188 million over five years ($38 million annually)

Woah

Here is the original source for the "not commit" part, and it also talks about various other teams and potential deals.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/08/cleveland_cavaliers_scribbles_64.html

Edit: In catching up, I see this article has been posted at least twice already.

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

Not risky to me for the right price. That means, Jackson,, Booker, the Suns pick is OFF the table

Bledsoe, Heat pick and maybe Chriss

If this doesn't work - so be it. I thnk eventually the Suns and Cavs will make the deal

[sunsbg]

Did Kobe make his teammates better? Shaq? AI? T-Mac? Amare in NY?

Sure, they made their teammates better by taking pressure off of them offensively or defensively (like Kyrie would do on the offensive end) but did they actually make their teammates better players in any other form?

How many rookies do you guys want on this team? What if we strike out on all of them? What if this is as good as Bender/Chriss are going to get? All of this what if when you can move a few pieces to get a young, SUPERSTAR who can contribute NOW.

What if Irving is a ball hog many believe he is and this hinders Booker's and Jackson's development ?

Personally I just not like his style of play. Sure he will make Sarver some money selling jerseys, but does it make the team better in the long run ? How ? Another Earth-is-flat moron will sign with the team ?

Of course Irving is a ball-hog, most great scorers are. Booker is a ball-hog too; what if he hinders Jackson's development? And I do think having Irving on the roster makes us more attractive to the next free agent, and if it doesn't work out in a year you flip him for a couple draft picks.

I really don't think the risk is as massive as people are saying it is. (I say this thinking no package is going to include Josh Jackson)

Booker is a SG. You need a PG who will make the other players happy. I just fear Irving will mean a few more wins, which will not make a big difference in the playoff run, but could damage the lottery chances. In retrospective this could be a big blow as there are probably a few franchise players in the top 5.

[TeamTragic]

This is great news. Kyrie is making sure the Cavaliers wont get Jackson. Clearly McD has his hands all over this trade.

Get ready for even worse worse offers Gilbert. Remember when Divac lost an additional pick for Cousins