Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion #5: A Serving of Irving?

[Villalobos]

Regarding the "bad contracts" the Cavs have...who would they really want to dump with Kyrie?

Lebron - No. LOL.
Love @ $22m/3 is a crucial piece. No way they trade him unless they get Blake/Cousins/etc back.
TT @ $16m/3 was a Lebron signing.
JR @ $13/3 isn't too bad plus he has played well for them
Shump @ $10m/2 isn't too bad
Frye @ 7/1 is an expiring and gives them a stretch 5.

I don't see them dumping/swaping TT or Frye for Chandler. TT is better and younger. Frye gives them the ability to stretch the floor when Love isn't playing the 5.

JR and Shump are serviceable wings. We don't have any decent wings to give back to them except maybe TJ who I don't want to trade.

Shumpert for Dudley or Chandler
take on Frye or RJ - saves them a boat load of money

I know you keep saying it, but the above trade you mentioned does not save them money nor does it make any sense. I dont think they are looking to trade RJ or Frye, they are being paid peanuts compared to other players around the league. And they bring vast experience and veteran leadership. Shumpert is a dead weight to them, i agree on that. Dudley and Chandler is not worth their contract considering their age and Cleveland has no use for them.
BTW Gilbert is not looking for savings, he is one of the very few owners who would go balls to the walls for championships.

Agree with most of that except two things. Cavs absolutely could use Dudley, a good vet and great 3pt shooter around Bron. Second, every rich guy wants to save money if they can. If they can get rid of Shump's contract (and they have been trying, per Lowe), they will. Gilbert is willing to spend money if it's worth it. By all indications Shump isn't to him.

[Son of Ra]

Regarding the "bad contracts" the Cavs have...who would they really want to dump with Kyrie?

Lebron - No. LOL.
Love @ $22m/3 is a crucial piece. No way they trade him unless they get Blake/Cousins/etc back.
TT @ $16m/3 was a Lebron signing.
JR @ $13/3 isn't too bad plus he has played well for them
Shump @ $10m/2 isn't too bad
Frye @ 7/1 is an expiring and gives them a stretch 5.

I don't see them dumping/swaping TT or Frye for Chandler. TT is better and younger. Frye gives them the ability to stretch the floor when Love isn't playing the 5.

JR and Shump are serviceable wings. We don't have any decent wings to give back to them except maybe TJ who I don't want to trade.

Shumpert for Dudley or Chandler
take on Frye or RJ - saves them a boat load of money

I know you keep saying it, but the above trade you mentioned does not save them money nor does it make any sense. I dont think they are looking to trade RJ or Frye, they are being paid peanuts compared to other players around the league. And they bring vast experience and veteran leadership. Shumpert is a dead weight to them, i agree on that. Dudley and Chandler is not worth their contract considering their age and Cleveland has no use for them.
BTW Gilbert is not looking for savings, he is one of the very few owners who would go balls to the walls for championships.

Well the Cavs have to pay the luxury tax at a 4:1 rate iirc so getting rid of Frye saves them $28 millions, Shumpert $40, etc. I think Gilbert is stingier than you think. Look at what he is offering his GM's. Lowest salary in the league by a wide margin. I think he was only willing to spend so much as long as LeBron was with them but now that he's probably gonna move on next year, Gilbert seems to be looking towards the post-LeBron era too.
So I think it is very much in their interest to attach one or two of those in a trade.

[Son of Ra]

lol what in the world does that even mean haha


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His Twitter Account does not mention the Suns... Very Interesting...

Noticed that too. It's all Miami pics

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I've been wondering the last few days if he is the hold up since he signed his contract on the 6th. I can't wait for the 3rd to go by without Jackson being traded.
At this point Bledsoe, Reed, MIA '18 1st is the max I'd be willing to offer.
I don't like Irving at all, don't really want him on our team but for that price you have to do it.

[i505]

There's no way to determine that right now; absolute zero.

It's just like, my opinion man.

Let's say we trade for Kyrie, and it's our 2018 Top 5 protected pick, Bledsoe, and Chriss, for argument sake (if there is news to the otherwise, sorry, I don't have time to keep up with every development).

Jackson comes out next year and has a great rookie season, as does Reed; Warren, Booker, Bender, and Ulis progress, and we make it to the 7th/8th seed, compete hard, then sign a good, young FA (pick one)...or heck, we don't need to because everyone surprises...maybe Bender and Sauce combine to form a stud duo at the 5, and Warren, with his new found bulk/height (he's what, almost 6'10", 245??), has a nice 16/7 year at PF, and Jackson just goes nuts at SF, Booker puts up a 22/5/4 year, and Kyrie has one of his best years. Why wouldn't he consider staying? Boom, we're on our way to our rebuild now, and attracting talent.

On the other hand, everything remains about status quo. We have another poor year and Irving does ok. Irving has a year left on his deal. We draft a PG in late the Lottery or 20s, and trade Irving to an up-and-coming contender for a lotto pick and a salary, no harm/ no foul. We still have Warren, Booker, Bender, Jackson, Ulis, Sauce, Reed, Peters, Miami's pick, and whoever we can trade Kyrie for, a pick or player. All is not lost.

I'd rather try, than go through another year, with our brightest hope for the future being our next year's draft pick; it certainly doesn't slow us down much, if any.

Any of that could happen obviously, but to me, when a guy comes out and gives a list of 4 teams he wants to play for and we're not on it, it's waaaaaay more likely that he plays out his contract and bolts. It's also just the way the league is going right now. Guys want to play where they want to play, and we're just sadly not at the point where we're a huge draw IMO.

I'll be more than happy if I'm wrong in this case and we do trade for him, but I have my doubts.

Also not too big on trading him to someone else next year, because we'll be in the position the Cavs are in right now with zero leverage and I think it will probably be hard to get back equal/greater value than what we paid.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Update:

The Suns would've traded Bledsoe, Jackson and Miami's first round IF Kyrie Irving would've committed to an extension. However, Kyrie isn't committed to anyone at this moment.

Having said this, the Suns WILL NOT offer Jackson for Irving under any circumstances. That's part of the issue as to why every team is low balling for Irving.

* and by agreing to an extension, they mean giving his word which he isn't.

I don't believe there's any useful information here, or info from a few days ago.

We've gone from-
"I asked a guy in the know within the Suns organization what percentage does he have on Kyrie joint the Suns.. his response was 95% chance he's a Suns...

To-
"The Suns would've traded Bledsoe, Jackson and Miami's first round IF Kyrie Irving would've committed to an extension. However, Kyrie isn't committed to anyone at this moment."

One sentence later-
"the Suns WILL NOT offer Jackson for Irving under any circumstances"

The convolution is telling. Suns woulda traded JJ, then they will not in any circumstance. Players don't verbally commit to an extension with 2 years left on their deal, and Kyrie's not taking an early 20% increase in a re-up when he can double his dollars in two.

Just a covering of all bases with speculation.. and covering nether regions, come trade or no trade.

Just my opinion.

[Sunzgunz]

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[Sunzgunz]

Read on Twitter

Is this some cryptic message? Is Reed packing his bags?

There is nothing 'cryptic' about an ex hurricane saying hes getting a bag! In Miami it's called 'blunt!'

He's not 'packing' a bag. He's getting a bag. He's 'packing' a bowl!

Funny thing is, cavs never worked him out, although they didnt have a pick, lol. Some of local pundits in Cleveland thought he'd be worth sneaking into the 2nd round though.

Knicks worked him out....as did a dozen other teams.

[thamadkant]

Update:

The Suns would've traded Bledsoe, Jackson and Miami's first round IF Kyrie Irving would've committed to an extension. However, Kyrie isn't committed to anyone at this moment.

Having said this, the Suns WILL NOT offer Jackson for Irving under any circumstances. That's part of the issue as to why every team is low balling for Irving.

* and by agreing to an extension, they mean giving his word which he isn't.

I don't believe there's any useful information here, or info from a few days ago.

We've gone from-
"I asked a guy in the know within the Suns organization what percentage does he have on Kyrie joint the Suns.. his response was 95% chance he's a Suns...

To-
"The Suns would've traded Bledsoe, Jackson and Miami's first round IF Kyrie Irving would've committed to an extension. However, Kyrie isn't committed to anyone at this moment."

One sentence later-
"the Suns WILL NOT offer Jackson for Irving under any circumstances"

The convolution is telling. Suns woulda traded JJ, then they will not in any circumstance. Players don't verbally commit to an extension with 2 years left on their deal, and Kyrie's not taking an early 20% increase in a re-up when he can double his dollars in two.

Just covering all bases with speculation.. and covering nether regions, trade or no trade. Just my opinion.

Yeah, that was a confusing.


My take is that Cavs wanted Bledsoe + Jackson + Heat pick IF Irving commits extension with the Suns.
But Suns replied saying they WON'T trade Jackson for Irving period.



and just to go back to my previous post, Pick 4 was on the trading Block for Irving I think. But this was before the draft.


Suns wanted Jackson and they are happy with him and won't part ways for Irving, maybe for someone like Anthony Davis or a Kawhi Leonard, but not Irving in a package including Bledsoe and picks anyways.
Again, think about Warriors backing out of Amare trade when Curry dropped to them.

[SideSwipe]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/02/report-kyrie-irving-not-ready-to-commit-to-any-team-that-trades-for-him/

I still say 95% he bolts. Pass.

There's no way to determine that right now; absolute zero. Let's say we trade for Kyrie, and it's our 2018 Top 5 protected pick, Bledsoe, and Chriss, for argument sake (if there is news to the otherwise, sorry, I don't have time to keep up with every development).

Jackson comes out next year and has a great rookie season, as does Reed; Warren, Booker, Bender, and Ulis progress, and we make it to the 7th/8th seed, compete hard, then sign a good, young FA (pick one)...or heck, we don't need to because everyone surprises...maybe Bender and Sauce combine to form a stud duo at the 5, and Warren, with his new found bulk/height (he's what, almost 6'10", 245??), has a nice 16/7 year at PF, and Jackson just goes nuts at SF, Booker puts up a 22/5/4 year, and Kyrie has one of his best years. Why wouldn't he consider staying? Boom, we're on our way to our rebuild now, and attracting talent.

On the other hand, everything remains about status quo. We have another poor year and Irving does ok. Irving has a year left on his deal. We draft a PG in late the Lottery or 20s, and trade Irving to an up-and-coming contender for a lotto pick and a salary, no harm/ no foul. We still have Warren, Booker, Bender, Jackson, Ulis, Sauce, Reed, Peters, Miami's pick, and whoever we can trade Kyrie for, a pick or player. All is not lost.

I'd rather try, than go through another year, with our brightest hope for the future being our next year's draft pick; it certainly doesn't slow us down much, if any.

This is a good extrapolation of the "get Kyrie scenario" the question is what is the blueprint after next summer in my mind. Who do we go for next summer that will add to our win total? Davis/Cousins?

Part of me worries that Kyrie may take away from Bookers development a little. Booker was clearly better in isolation that Bledsoe, but that's not as clear with Kyrie, which could limit touches for Book, which could push back his opportunity to be an All-star, which could frustrate him and his desire to stick in PHX long term.

[AtheJ415]

I don't think Reed is the holdup. The thing with a lot of the youngsters is they have more value to us than other teams. With Warren and Chriss that might be different. Warren put up great numbers aside from the injury issue, and Chriss was well thought of prior to the draft in general and outperformed most expectations given how new he is to the game.

I think it is more that Cleveland wants to see what other offers come up once players become eligible to be moved. Maybe they want to see if Phoenix would budge on Jackson. I would be surprised if Reed is involved.

[thamadkant]

There's no way to determine that right now; absolute zero.

It's just like, my opinion man.

Let's say we trade for Kyrie, and it's our 2018 Top 5 protected pick, Bledsoe, and Chriss, for argument sake (if there is news to the otherwise, sorry, I don't have time to keep up with every development).

Jackson comes out next year and has a great rookie season, as does Reed; Warren, Booker, Bender, and Ulis progress, and we make it to the 7th/8th seed, compete hard, then sign a good, young FA (pick one)...or heck, we don't need to because everyone surprises...maybe Bender and Sauce combine to form a stud duo at the 5, and Warren, with his new found bulk/height (he's what, almost 6'10", 245??), has a nice 16/7 year at PF, and Jackson just goes nuts at SF, Booker puts up a 22/5/4 year, and Kyrie has one of his best years. Why wouldn't he consider staying? Boom, we're on our way to our rebuild now, and attracting talent.

On the other hand, everything remains about status quo. We have another poor year and Irving does ok. Irving has a year left on his deal. We draft a PG in late the Lottery or 20s, and trade Irving to an up-and-coming contender for a lotto pick and a salary, no harm/ no foul. We still have Warren, Booker, Bender, Jackson, Ulis, Sauce, Reed, Peters, Miami's pick, and whoever we can trade Kyrie for, a pick or player. All is not lost.

I'd rather try, than go through another year, with our brightest hope for the future being our next year's draft pick; it certainly doesn't slow us down much, if any.

Any of that could happen obviously, but to me, when a guy comes out and gives a list of 4 teams he wants to play for and we're not on it, it's waaaaaay more likely that he plays out his contract and bolts. It's also just the way the league is going right now. Guys want to play where they want to play, and we're just sadly not at the point where we're a huge draw IMO.

I'll be more than happy if I'm wrong in this case and we do trade for him, but I have my doubts.

Also not too big on trading him to someone else next year, because we'll be in the position the Cavs are in right now with zero leverage and I think it will probably be hard to get back equal/greater value than what we paid.

I think Suns have a very good chance of displacing Clippers in the Pacific Division as 2nd place from Warriors IF they can get Irving and another impact FA in the next 2 seasons. IMO that should be very appealing for Irving.
Then when Warriors decline in 2-3 seasons time, Suns have a strong chance to push for first.
The KEY is beating Lakers to impact FA players, if Suns don't go for Star FAs, we all know Lakers will. So the way I look at it... getting a star like Irving is the Suns way of ensuring they stay ahead of Lakers and Kings and bark at the heels of Clippers for that 2nd spot in the Pacific.

Cousins would definitely take a look at the Suns if the Suns are up and coming with a young core ready to push for playoffs.

[DirtyDez]

BTW Gilbert is not looking for savings, he is one of the very few owners who would go balls to the walls for championships.

But won't pay Griffin. :/

[DirtyDez]

I don't think Reed is the holdup. The thing with a lot of the youngsters is they have more value to us than other teams. With Warren and Chriss that might be different. Warren put up great numbers aside from the injury issue, and Chriss was well thought of prior to the draft in general and outperformed most expectations given how new he is to the game.

I think it is more that Cleveland wants to see what other offers come up once players become eligible to be moved. Maybe they want to see if Phoenix would budge on Jackson. I would be surprised if Reed is involved.

Ugh that means we probably have to take Shumpert's scrub ass. Knight could've actually been somewhat important next year.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[Christine-In-AZ]

Ray Ray has details about potential/discussed trades. It helps this board better understand what is going on behind the scenes.

If you want bombshells then follow Woj. Otherwise just take it as a rumor.

I am not being a dick about anything. You are being a dick.

I just don't see ray ray as some super hero, like some of you do.

I enjoy his posts but in no way shape or form do I think he has more info than what we get from many other sources.

Just answer my question.

What trade has he predicted correctly in recent memory?

Oh, you can't.

Let's just move on.

To some of us, Rays posts are comforting. Dont know if he is legit, but some of us really like when he chimes in on what he says he has heard. Its annoying to hear people complain about it. In his posts he gives info and also tells of fluid situations, never "hey, this is what is about to happen", just this is the subject of conversation with the team. Things evolve and some dont, not keeping score, but I appreciate his posts and hate reading people attacking anyone over this dumb ****.

That's fine that you find his post "comforting", the problem for me is when aspects of his posts/rumors evolve into debate facts...not just here, but other places on RealGM. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if I start reading "but hey! the Suns were willing to trade Jackson with an Irving committal"...as if it were a fact. It happens often. The ridiculous "dozenscousins" on the Kings board pukes volumes of obvious BS "inside", and is laughed at or completely ignored by all Kings board frequenters...still, to the uneducated his **** sometimes gets accepted and transfered.

[thamadkant]

Read on Twitter

This is my stance also.


Bender's value is low because he hasnt shown as much as other rookies last season. But thats good for Suns as they can stash him in the corner until he is ready.


Chriss is frustrating but has shown glimpses of promise also, he has shown more that he can entice other teams to want him.


Everyone else can be traded, Suns need impact players not role players at this point. Once you get your 3-4 impact players, you surround them with role players that fit.

[jredsaz]

Update:

The Suns would've traded Bledsoe, Jackson and Miami's first round IF Kyrie Irving would've committed to an extension. However, Kyrie isn't committed to anyone at this moment.

Having said this, the Suns WILL NOT offer Jackson for Irving under any circumstances. That's part of the issue as to why every team is low balling for Irving.

* and by agreing to an extension, they mean giving his word which he isn't.

I don't believe there's any useful information here, or info from a few days ago.

We've gone from-
"I asked a guy in the know within the Suns organization what percentage does he have on Kyrie joint the Suns.. his response was 95% chance he's a Suns...

To-
"The Suns would've traded Bledsoe, Jackson and Miami's first round IF Kyrie Irving would've committed to an extension. However, Kyrie isn't committed to anyone at this moment."

One sentence later-
"the Suns WILL NOT offer Jackson for Irving under any circumstances"

The convolution is telling. Suns woulda traded JJ, then they will not in any circumstance. Players don't verbally commit to an extension with 2 years left on their deal, and Kyrie's not taking an early 20% increase in a re-up when he can double his dollars in two.

Just a covering of all bases with speculation.. and covering nether regions, come trade or no trade.

Just my opinion.

I think you're confused. It makes sense.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

[BobbieL]

Regarding the "bad contracts" the Cavs have...who would they really want to dump with Kyrie?

Lebron - No. LOL.
Love @ $22m/3 is a crucial piece. No way they trade him unless they get Blake/Cousins/etc back.
TT @ $16m/3 was a Lebron signing.
JR @ $13/3 isn't too bad plus he has played well for them
Shump @ $10m/2 isn't too bad
Frye @ 7/1 is an expiring and gives them a stretch 5.

I don't see them dumping/swaping TT or Frye for Chandler. TT is better and younger. Frye gives them the ability to stretch the floor when Love isn't playing the 5.

JR and Shump are serviceable wings. We don't have any decent wings to give back to them except maybe TJ who I don't want to trade.

Shumpert for Dudley or Chandler
take on Frye or RJ - saves them a boat load of money

I know you keep saying it, but the above trade you mentioned does not save them money nor does it make any sense. I dont think they are looking to trade RJ or Frye, they are being paid peanuts compared to other players around the league. And they bring vast experience and veteran leadership. Shumpert is a dead weight to them, i agree on that. Dudley and Chandler is not worth their contract considering their age and Cleveland has no use for them.
BTW Gilbert is not looking for savings, he is one of the very few owners who would go balls to the walls for championships.

First, I know Gilbert is not afraid of spending but Frye and Jefferson will cost him $40m this years - they don't have that much value

Also, the Cavs signed Greene, resigned Korver, added Rose and Calderon - so this is why I think my trade makes sense

Bledsoe - 14.5 + Dudley 10 + Chriss 3 + Heat pick is basically 28 going out

Kyrie 19 + Shumpert + 10.3 + Frye + 7.5 + RJ 2.5 = 39.3 coming back

This would save DAn Gilbert 11m in cap space x four in luxury tax so like 44m bucks

If they add Dudley, both Jefferson and Frye are really not needed

Dudley replaces Shumperts dollars

Iknow Gilbert is not afraid to spend but trading Frye alone is worth close to 30m bucks and he didn't play very much in finals

he would be expendable

[bwgood77]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/02/report-kyrie-irving-not-ready-to-commit-to-any-team-that-trades-for-him/

I still say 95% he bolts. Pass.

There's no way to determine that right now; absolute zero. Let's say we trade for Kyrie, and it's our 2018 Top 5 protected pick, Bledsoe, and Chriss, for argument sake (if there is news to the otherwise, sorry, I don't have time to keep up with every development).

Jackson comes out next year and has a great rookie season, as does Reed; Warren, Booker, Bender, and Ulis progress, and we make it to the 7th/8th seed, compete hard, then sign a good, young FA (pick one)...or heck, we don't need to because everyone surprises...maybe Bender and Sauce combine to form a stud duo at the 5, and Warren, with his new found bulk/height (he's what, almost 6'10", 245??), has a nice 16/7 year at PF, and Jackson just goes nuts at SF, Booker puts up a 22/5/4 year, and Kyrie has one of his best years. Why wouldn't he consider staying? Boom, we're on our way to our rebuild now, and attracting talent.

On the other hand, everything remains about status quo. We have another poor year and Irving does ok. Irving has a year left on his deal. We draft a PG in late the Lottery or 20s, and trade Irving to an up-and-coming contender for a lotto pick and a salary, no harm/ no foul. We still have Warren, Booker, Bender, Jackson, Ulis, Sauce, Reed, Peters, Miami's pick, and whoever we can trade Kyrie for, a pick or player. All is not lost.

I'd rather try, than go through another year, with our brightest hope for the future being our next year's draft pick; it certainly doesn't slow us down much, if any.

This is a good extrapolation of the "get Kyrie scenario" the question is what is the blueprint after next summer in my mind. Who do we go for next summer that will add to our win total? Davis/Cousins?

Part of me worries that Kyrie may take away from Bookers development a little. Booker was clearly better in isolation that Bledsoe, but that's not as clear with Kyrie, which could limit touches for Book, which could push back his opportunity to be an All-star, which could frustrate him and his desire to stick in PHX long term.

Yeah, I'm not quite as high on Booker as many, but I want him to get the best opportunity possibly to develop, hone his skills, etc, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit if Booker became a bit unhappy playing with Kyrie, after being the main man down the stretch for us, and getting a taste of that. He got that taste and now would take a bad seat and very likely get fewer touches. And then there is a good chance Kyrie leaves anyway.

McD has been good at adding guards that make other ones disgruntled though.

Booker/Jackson perfect pairing. Booker/Irving...

[bwgood77]

I don't believe there's any useful information here, or info from a few days ago.

We've gone from-
"I asked a guy in the know within the Suns organization what percentage does he have on Kyrie joint the Suns.. his response was 95% chance he's a Suns...

To-
"The Suns would've traded Bledsoe, Jackson and Miami's first round IF Kyrie Irving would've committed to an extension. However, Kyrie isn't committed to anyone at this moment."

One sentence later-
"the Suns WILL NOT offer Jackson for Irving under any circumstances"

The convolution is telling. Suns woulda traded JJ, then they will not in any circumstance. Players don't verbally commit to an extension with 2 years left on their deal, and Kyrie's not taking an early 20% increase in a re-up when he can double his dollars in two.

Just a covering of all bases with speculation.. and covering nether regions, come trade or no trade.

Just my opinion.

I think you're confused. It makes sense.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

So "I will trade this guy IF" and "Under no circumstances will I trade this guy" makes sense? OK