Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion #5: A Serving of Irving?

[jcsunsfan]

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Is this some cryptic message? Is Reed packing his bags?

There is nothing 'cryptic' about an ex hurricane saying hes getting a bag! In Miami it's called 'blunt!'

He's not 'packing' a bag. He's getting a bag. He's 'packing' a bowl!

Funny thing is, cavs never worked him out, although they didnt have a pick, lol. Some of local pundits in Cleveland thought he'd be worth sneaking into the 2nd round though.

Knicks worked him out....as did a dozen other teams.

Thats why I was thinking Colorado vacation.

[Christine-In-AZ]

I keep seeing that- "The Suns offered Bledsoe and the #4 pick for Irving before the draft" as if it was...is a fact. Nobody is sure what the Suns were angling for, in dangling Bledsoe and the #4. Still, this rumor seems to be the foundation for the Cavs need Bledsoe & Jackson minimum. It (this unsubstantiated claim) set Cleveland's price floor for Irving.

Listen to Zach Lowe's July 24th podcast with Brian Windhorst, beginning at around minute 24 -http://podbay.fm/show/986595124/e/1500932717

Zach Lowe:
The Cavs according to ..I think? Your reporting, and other's reporting, were discussing some...thing? With Eric Bledsoe and the #4 pick, that Phoenix eventually used on Josh Jackson.

What was?..I don't know the answer to this...my reporting hasn't been deep enough to get it...what was actually...who was going where? In this "Bledsoe and #4 deal that didn't happen?

Brian Windhorst:
I don't know... And if we knew for sure, we would've had it in the story. We...we...I don't know.

...I know that around the draft, and in the Paul George talks, the Cavs were not willing to make Kyrie Irving available for Paul George.

...for what that's worth.

[DirtyDez]

Shumpert for Dudley or Chandler
take on Frye or RJ - saves them a boat load of money

I know you keep saying it, but the above trade you mentioned does not save them money nor does it make any sense. I dont think they are looking to trade RJ or Frye, they are being paid peanuts compared to other players around the league. And they bring vast experience and veteran leadership. Shumpert is a dead weight to them, i agree on that. Dudley and Chandler is not worth their contract considering their age and Cleveland has no use for them.
BTW Gilbert is not looking for savings, he is one of the very few owners who would go balls to the walls for championships.

First, I know Gilbert is not afraid of spending but Frye and Jefferson will cost him $40m this years - they don't have that much value

Also, the Cavs signed Greene, resigned Korver, added Rose and Calderon - so this is why I think my trade makes sense

Bledsoe - 14.5 + Dudley 10 + Chriss 3 + Heat pick is basically 28 going out

Kyrie 19 + Shumpert + 10.3 + Frye + 7.5 + RJ 2.5 = 39.3 coming back

This would save DAn Gilbert 11m in cap space x four in luxury tax so like 44m bucks

If they add Dudley, both Jefferson and Frye are really not needed

Dudley replaces Shumperts dollars

Iknow Gilbert is not afraid to spend but trading Frye alone is worth close to 30m bucks and he didn't play very much in finals

he would be expendable

Doesn't work in the trade machine. Suns would still need to add about 5m in salary but I like the idea. I think that would be the best way to make it worth Cleveland's while without including JJ or our 1st rd pick.

[BobbieL]

I know you keep saying it, but the above trade you mentioned does not save them money nor does it make any sense. I dont think they are looking to trade RJ or Frye, they are being paid peanuts compared to other players around the league. And they bring vast experience and veteran leadership. Shumpert is a dead weight to them, i agree on that. Dudley and Chandler is not worth their contract considering their age and Cleveland has no use for them.
BTW Gilbert is not looking for savings, he is one of the very few owners who would go balls to the walls for championships.

First, I know Gilbert is not afraid of spending but Frye and Jefferson will cost him $40m this years - they don't have that much value

Also, the Cavs signed Greene, resigned Korver, added Rose and Calderon - so this is why I think my trade makes sense

Bledsoe - 14.5 + Dudley 10 + Chriss 3 + Heat pick is basically 28 going out

Kyrie 19 + Shumpert + 10.3 + Frye + 7.5 + RJ 2.5 = 39.3 coming back

This would save DAn Gilbert 11m in cap space x four in luxury tax so like 44m bucks

If they add Dudley, both Jefferson and Frye are really not needed

Dudley replaces Shumperts dollars

Iknow Gilbert is not afraid to spend but trading Frye alone is worth close to 30m bucks and he didn't play very much in finals

he would be expendable

Doesn't work in the trade machine. Suns would still need to add about 5m in salary but I like the idea. I think that would be the best way to make it worth Cleveland's while without including JJ or our 1st rd pick.

The problem with the trade machine is that is has a 12m cap hold for Len. So, say Len signs a deal for <$6m - all of the sudden the Suns have $12m of cap space, not $6. So the Suns could at that point theoretically, take on Frye &/or RJ. Pelton came up with these numbers - I didn't- just using his knowledge!! I didn't realie the Cavs were 4x lux taxes payers - I just think Gilbert would pay the Suns a few million to take Frye to save way more than that

I don't mind switching Shumpert for Dudley as I think with Irving, Ulis and Booker - the backcourt D would be needed. But I just don't want to take on Shumpert as he doesn't expire this year without giving back a Dudley who is basically same store as Shump. Frye and RJ are fine- Gilbert sends a few million to the Suns, Suns meet the floor and Gilbert pockets about 40m - done!

[bwgood77]

I keep seeing that- "The Suns offered Bledsoe and the #4 pick for Irving before the draft" as if it was...is a fact. Nobody is sure what the Suns were angling for, in dangling Bledsoe and the #4. Still, this rumor seems to be the foundation for the Cavs need Bledsoe & Jackson minimum. It (this unsubstantiated claim) set Cleveland's price floor for Irving.

Listen to Zach Lowe's July 24th podcast with Brian Windhorst, beginning at around minute 24 -http://podbay.fm/show/986595124/e/1500932717

Zach Lowe:
The Cavs according to ..I think? Your reporting, and other's reporting, were discussing some...thing? With Eric Bledsoe and the #4 pick, that Phoenix eventually used on Josh Jackson.

What was?..I don't know the answer to this...my reporting hasn't been deep enough to get it...what was actually...who was going where? In this "Bledsoe and #4 deal that didn't happen?

Brian Windhorst:
I don't know... And if we knew for sure, we would've had it in the story. We...we...I don't know.

...I know that around the draft, and in the Paul George talks, the Cavs were not willing to make Kyrie Irving available for Paul George.

...for what that's worth.

Yeah, if those guys don't know, no one else does...or it would have been reported by a reputable source.

[DaleyBlind]

I wish something would happen, the wait and suspense is killing me

[jredsaz]

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This is my stance also.


Bender's value is low because he hasnt shown as much as other rookies last season. But thats good for Suns as they can stash him in the corner until he is ready.


Chriss is frustrating but has shown glimpses of promise also, he has shown more that he can entice other teams to want him.


Everyone else can be traded, Suns need impact players not role players at this point. Once you get your 3-4 impact players, you surround them with role players that fit.

Going to have to give that pick if we want him.

[GeraldsGreenery]

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This is my stance also.


Bender's value is low because he hasnt shown as much as other rookies last season. But thats good for Suns as they can stash him in the corner until he is ready.


Chriss is frustrating but has shown glimpses of promise also, he has shown more that he can entice other teams to want him.


Everyone else can be traded, Suns need impact players not role players at this point. Once you get your 3-4 impact players, you surround them with role players that fit.

Going to have to give that pick if we want him.

Top 3 protected?

[OGBAH]

59 pages of Kyrie. What's going on with Len?

[jredsaz]

I don't believe there's any useful information here, or info from a few days ago.

We've gone from-
"I asked a guy in the know within the Suns organization what percentage does he have on Kyrie joint the Suns.. his response was 95% chance he's a Suns...

To-
"The Suns would've traded Bledsoe, Jackson and Miami's first round IF Kyrie Irving would've committed to an extension. However, Kyrie isn't committed to anyone at this moment."

One sentence later-
"the Suns WILL NOT offer Jackson for Irving under any circumstances"

The convolution is telling. Suns woulda traded JJ, then they will not in any circumstance. Players don't verbally commit to an extension with 2 years left on their deal, and Kyrie's not taking an early 20% increase in a re-up when he can double his dollars in two.

Just a covering of all bases with speculation.. and covering nether regions, come trade or no trade.

Just my opinion.

I think you're confused. It makes sense.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

So "I will trade this guy IF" and "Under no circumstances will I trade this guy" makes sense? OK

Irving won't commit. Maybe he should have said Under no other circumstance but he did say "having said this". You're nitpicking and i think you and others are doing it because you dont like what he is saying.

[grumpysaddle]

59 pages of Kyrie. What's going on with Len?

Who cares?

[lilfishi22]

I'm not comfortable with giving the same package that was originally on offer (Bledsoe, Chriss, 1st) now that Kyrie has come out and said he wouldn't be willing to commit long term at this stage. Not that I was expecting a commitment but now that he's come out publicly, I think that has to bring the value of the package down. Whereas before the package was based on hope and speculation of his long term plans, now that the information is confirmed publicly, we have to revise down the price.

In my mind, the chances of him resigning doesn't change but now that he's come out with non-commitment publicly, I think we should change the price based on that information. I'd say, Bledsoe and Chriss/1st (top 5 protected) is about right.

[bwgood77]

Why would there be any rush for Cleveland to do anything? I wouldn't jump to take an offer I didn't like if I was the Cavs GM. Would you? They have nothing to lose by waiting.

[jredsaz]

This is my stance also.


Bender's value is low because he hasnt shown as much as other rookies last season. But thats good for Suns as they can stash him in the corner until he is ready.


Chriss is frustrating but has shown glimpses of promise also, he has shown more that he can entice other teams to want him.


Everyone else can be traded, Suns need impact players not role players at this point. Once you get your 3-4 impact players, you surround them with role players that fit.

Going to have to give that pick if we want him.

Top 3 protected?

I hope so

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

[AtheJ415]

Read on Twitter

This is my stance also.


Bender's value is low because he hasnt shown as much as other rookies last season. But thats good for Suns as they can stash him in the corner until he is ready.


Chriss is frustrating but has shown glimpses of promise also, he has shown more that he can entice other teams to want him.


Everyone else can be traded, Suns need impact players not role players at this point. Once you get your 3-4 impact players, you surround them with role players that fit.

Going to have to give that pick if we want him.

We really shouldn't have to. Both the Suns and Cavs would rather have the pick if it falls in the top 5 than Irving. In fact, if Bagley does indeed reclassify and the pick falls in the top 5, I would argue it is the most valuable thing in the entire trade. I probably would rather have it than Jackson. It is trading a dice roll which no team in today's NBA should do. If the Cavs expect the pick without adequate protection then the trade shouldn't occur. It's that simple.

[Shank]

Read on Twitter

Is this some cryptic message? Is Reed packing his bags?

BAG = BIG MONEY $$$

And how I know this for sure? I listen to today's rap music lol

[OGBAH]

Only Kyrie trade id do maybe
Bledsoe Chandler Duds for Kyrie Shump Frye. No picks 37mil for 36mil
I don't want Len back so I'm not happy trading Chandler really...so...no Kyrie for me.

[nevetsov]

If the Clipps offered us Beverley and a 1st for Bledsoe, would you take it?

Then they could offer Bledsoe and Griffin, for Kyrie and Love (parts exchanged where necessary).

Griffin more or less equals Irving value wise - both All NBA, both #1 picks, Kyrie younger (with slightly tanked value now) and Griffin signed longer (what CLE is chasing).

Bledsoe holds higher value to CLE given the LeBron and Klutch ties, and is a better fit.

[AtheJ415]

Going to have to give that pick if we want him.

Top 3 protected?

I hope so

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Needs to be at least top 5. All of Doncic, Porter, Ayton, Bagley, and Bamba imo are more valuable than Jackson. There also isn't a wide variation between those 5 in value imo (except maybe Bagley or Doncic depending on who you ask). Thus, top 3 doesn't make sense to me. Top 5 makes a lot of sense, but I'd do top 10. At the end of the day Bledsoe is already nearly as good as Kyrie, happens to be BFF with their star player, and we are probably taking salary back also. If we are also trading Warren or Chriss, that is overkill. Kyrie refuses to agree to re-sign, and I feel like we are bidding against ourselves and a horrible Dragic + Winslow or Aldridge + something package.

[AtheJ415]

If the Clipps offered us Beverley and a 1st for Bledsoe, would you take it?

Then they could offer Bledsoe and Griffin, for Kyrie and Love (parts exchanged where necessary).

Griffin more or less equals Irving value wise - both All NBA, both #1 picks, Kyrie younger (with slightly tanked value now) and Griffin signed longer (what CLE is chasing).

Bledsoe holds higher value to CLE given the LeBron and Klutch ties, and is a better fit.

I would not trade Bled for Beverly and a 1st. Bev is a quality role player. Bled is much more. A late 1st from the Clippers isn't enough for me to do that. Also, I am pretty sure the Clippers wouldn't make that Griffin trade.