Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

[jbk1234]

Kyrie justifiably felt he was an untouchable on this team along with Bron. But when he sees team management acquiesce yet again to Bron in order to get him guys that only Bron can win with, it rightfully set Kyrie off the deep end . Context here matters since Kyrie has publicly stated he's been waiting patiently to make this his own team.

Plus there's the statement from Rob Parker on the Herd where Bron supposedly asked the team to trade Kyrie for CP3 even after they won their title. Remember earlier in that year Bron talked about his hope to have the banana boat team one day.

As much as it seems Kyrie is dissing Bron right now, Bron's been dissing him ever since he took back this team.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You managed to be like 100% wrong on what actually happened. If LBJ had signed off on a Kyrie trade pre-draft, he'd be gone.

Another pre-draft trade plan was Kyrie for Bledsoe--that fell through because LeBron wouldn't commit to the Cavs after this year.

And I believe Rob Parker's story of LeBron wanting Kyrie gone for CP3 at the time. Management didn't agree then because they just won the title.

LeBron wanted Kyrie gone long before this year.

You're 100% in denial

Actually it was Kyrie for PG & Bledsoe and LBJ wouldn't agree to extend (FWIW he's not going to sign a long term contract with anyone next year). But LBJ did not give his blessing to a Kyrie trade this summer which is the (false) assertion you made.

[RCM88x]

If this happened do people really think the Cavs would keep Jackson? I just can't see that. Seems like they would flip him for another piece.

I doubt they'll trade him, too valuable of an asset to give up if Lebron leaves in '18.

I dislike this mentality if this is the way they are thinking. If moving Jackson for a contributor makes LeBron more likely to stay or helps them win a championship, they should do it. Those should be the only two driving forces right now, win a ring and keep LeBron. The future is now. Cleveland can rebuild later. The Cavaliers need to relish the spotlight while they have it.

I agree, but what players are out there who could really help the team at a 6$ million salary? There is almost no one in that range.

Sure you can trade him but its unlikely you'll get equal return, unless its another player still on a rookie deal.

[XPeak]

People are saying as if it is a done deal. I don't see how Cleveland gets significantly better here as the PG Rotation of Bledsoe and Rose is pretty much suspect. Also, will Rose play backup SG minutes as well? Lots of questions to be answered, really.

I see this being a "Championship" move by the Cavs IF:
1) Bledsoe turns another solid year with improvements while playing more games
2) Rose somehow continues his "efficient" year last season and play within his means
3) The old shooters stay consistent (Korver, Frye)
4) Jackson turns in a relevant rookie year

That's a lot of IFs for me. Clearly, losing Irving is a downgrade for them as Kyrie is a big-time player.

[RCM88x]

If they can pull off the Bledsoe/Jackson trade it will certainly improve the team IMO and make the team better than it was last year or even going into '16. However people will still claim the Cavs off-season a massive failure because an All-NBA player wasn't added out right. But hey, they needed more length and defense, and that's exactly what they got.

Do you think Bledsoe and Rose will be able to share the court together effectively? Bledsoe has shown that he can play alongside another PG, but that makes for some shoddy spacing.

I think the bigger question mark is can they even see the floor? Very fragile PG rota if this trade goes down. Calderon might be an important pickup

Kyrie is just as fragile if not more so than Bledsoe. I don't think this plays into the discussion at all.

Bledsoe is a solid 3pt shooter, but even so I doubt he'll play much with Rose and even if he does the team has enough spacing already.

[gaspar]

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[RCM88x]

Well, the Cavs will definitely be more athletic and long if this goes down, as compared to last year.

Eric Bledsoe
Derrick Rose
Josh Jackson
Jeff Green
Cedi Osman
Jose Calderon

Kyrie Irving
Iman Shumpert
Deron Williams
Mike Dunleavy
Chris Anderson
James Jones
Richard Jefferson (well, his minutes should be gone)

Maybe they will bring back Bogut, too.

If they can pull off the Bledsoe/Jackson trade it will certainly improve the team IMO and make the team better than it was last year or even going into '16. However people will still claim the Cavs off-season a massive failure because an All-NBA player wasn't added out right. But hey, they needed more length and defense, and that's exactly what they got.

I really don't know how you can say that as Jackson is an unknown rookie and Bledsoe is far below Irving. I know you are a huge Lebron fan but Irving is a fantastic player and had a lot to do with our championship and success. If this is the best deal out there for us then we have to do it, but don't kid yourself we are getting better unless Jackson ends up being a rookie prodigy.

In a vacuum Irving is definitely a better player, but I think for this team specifically Blesdoe might be the better fit for the majority of games. Bledsoe can use the PnR much more effectively than Kyrie which benefits Lebron and TT massively, he's also more capable of using big men like Love, which is something Irving was just horrendous at. Honestly, from watching them the past to years Irving probably had like 1 assist to Love every 5-6 games at best. Which is a big part of why they struggled with Lebron on the bench.

Even if Jackson isn't some great player, just having a young guy to give some energy on the court is a good thing. I'm not sure how he'll fit in the rotation but I think at this point he can definitely be better than Jefferson or Green, which obviously isn't saying much but is an improvement none the less. Just look at how well Derrick Williams played next to Lebron last year, I think this could be a similar situation.

But the bottom line is that this team will simply not beat GS if both teams are healthy, no matter if the Cavs make this move or not. If anything its a few win improvement in the regular season which will be much more enjoyable to me than losing in the finals by an average of 9 points instead of 12, which is what Kyrie would give you.

[MotownMadness]

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I find that hard to believe that they wouldn't deal Jackson if Kyrie would commit. That would just be insane to me especially after seeing Suns trying to max out any star that will talk to them in FA over the years.

[Jack Dempsey]

Cavs fans think this way because we've been in the same spot the Suns are in before when trying to trade for Love...I remember tons of Cavs fans saying "we have all the leverage, no need to include Wiggins. Dion, Bennett and TT/picks will be enough..." yeah didn't quite work out that way.
Oh and that was for a possible 1 year rental in Love versus 2 year Kyrie...both at the age of 25

Well, the difference is that the Cavs became a contender the second they signed LeBron while the Suns still have a long way to go. With James being already 30 in 2014 Cleveland didn't really have the time to develop a 19yo rookie, they needed win-now players. Phoenix on the other hand is one of the worst teams in the league and nowhere near the playoffs in the West even with Kyrie. All he could do is to get them out of the Ayton, Porter, Bamba mix but I highly doubt he can get them to the postseason. Other than that, with him wanting to be the man he could hinder the development of the younger players. I'm not a Suns fan but I don't like Kyrie in Phoenix at all.

If you want to argue fit, thats fine. I honestly don't know much about PHO and their pieces so I can't argue. But its not like the Cavs are going to lower their asking price from PHO if he doesn't fit or if he isn't going to make them a contender.

All I'm saying is there are reasons why Cavs fans are optimistic that Jackson is involved and it revolves around what we had to give up for Love.

Also the rumor that a trade with PHO will be announced soon, but hasn't yet, has some interesting timing considering Jackson becomes available for trade tomorrow...we'll just have to wait and see

I never said Cleveland HAS to take less from the Suns. All I'm saying is that Kyrie to Phoenix is no must by any means. Both teams have the option to say "No, thank you". If they don't want to offer more than say Bledsoe, Warren and maybe the MIA '18 pick they don't have to and the Cavs can trade him to another team if they receive a better offer. The disadvantage Cleveland has is that they should move him before the training camp starts because of team chemistry and the question is what is the best teams will be willing to give up. As far as I noticed Cleveland is asking for too much while other teams are low balling them. I haven't seen any teams throwing around with big assets so far and Cleveland could become desperate if no deal happens soon.

PS: Didn't Jackson's restriction end yesterday?

[gaspar]

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I find that hard to believe that they wouldn't deal Jackson if Kyrie would commit. That would just be insane to me especially after seeing Suns trying to max out any star that will talk to them in FA over the years.

Kyrie won't sign an extension with anyone for financial reasons and his word is not binding. Just ask Carlos Boozer.
Jackson isn't and won't be on the table in a trade for Kyrie, of that I'm sure.

[MotownMadness]

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I find that hard to believe that they wouldn't deal Jackson if Kyrie would commit. That would just be insane to me especially after seeing Suns trying to max out any star that will talk to them in FA over the years.

Kyrie won't sign an extension with anyone for financial reasons and his word is not binding. Just ask Carlos Boozer.
Jackson isn't and won't be on the table in a trade for Kyrie, of that I'm sure.

I know he won't commit anywhere and I wouldn't do it either as the risk of him walking is too much but that guy said if he commits they still wouldn't do it which I disagree with even if it's a hypothetical convo.

[BasketballFan7]

I doubt they'll trade him, too valuable of an asset to give up if Lebron leaves in '18.

I dislike this mentality if this is the way they are thinking. If moving Jackson for a contributor makes LeBron more likely to stay or helps them win a championship, they should do it. Those should be the only two driving forces right now, win a ring and keep LeBron. The future is now. Cleveland can rebuild later. The Cavaliers need to relish the spotlight while they have it.

I agree, but what players are out there who could really help the team at a 6$ million salary? There is almost no one in that range.

Sure you can trade him but its unlikely you'll get equal return, unless its another player still on a rookie deal.

They can move Frye's expiring (7 million) with Jackson to acquire a bigger contract. That's most likely. They may also be able to move Jackson for picks and then package those with a trade exception, less likely.

[gaspar]

Spoiler:

I find that hard to believe that they wouldn't deal Jackson if Kyrie would commit. That would just be insane to me especially after seeing Suns trying to max out any star that will talk to them in FA over the years.

Kyrie won't sign an extension with anyone for financial reasons and his word is not binding. Just ask Carlos Boozer.
Jackson isn't and won't be on the table in a trade for Kyrie, of that I'm sure.

Know I now he won't commit anywhere and I wouldn't do it either as the risk of him walking is too much but that guy said if he commits they wouldn't do it.

"If he commits", in what sense? Even if Kyrie said "I will re-sign with the Suns in 2 years", it still means nothing. It's just words without much meaning and that's the only commitment Kyrie could realistically make right now.

[MotownMadness]

Kyrie won't sign an extension with anyone for financial reasons and his word is not binding. Just ask Carlos Boozer.
Jackson isn't and won't be on the table in a trade for Kyrie, of that I'm sure.

Know I now he won't commit anywhere and I wouldn't do it either as the risk of him walking is too much but that guy said if he commits they wouldn't do it.

"If he commits", in what sense? Even if Kyrie said "I will re-sign with the Suns in 2 years", it still means nothing. It's just words without much meaning and that's the only commitment Kyrie could realistically make right now.

True, Again they said it not me

[Benedict_Boozer]

If the Suns won't give up Jackson I would just pass on the deal and hold onto Kyrie. You dump Kyrie for a lowball offer you might as well guarantee Lebrons ticket out of town as well.

[clyde21]

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[MotownMadness]

Nobody giving up value for Kyrie. The risk of him jumping ship is too much apparently. I don't think teams want to put themselves in the whole star might leave camp for the next two years.

[phraoh]

[quote="clyde21"][tweet]893141934537150465[/tweet][/quote]

Well this means they are admitting they would trade one of them !! Anyways all these quotes, etc. are just positioning by teams. The fact that all these tweets are coming out ought to tell everyone that there are several teams very interested in Kyrie and they want to get a deal done but as little as possible in the assets they are giving away. Its also being put out there that the Cavs are in no hurry and want the right package. The thought that Cavs are not going to get something substantial back in return is due to wishful thinking of the teams that are interested. They aren't selling Kyrie for 70 cents on the dollar...maybe 90 or 95, but pretty close to his value...His value is Jackson, Bledsoe, Chriss, and 2 number 1's...for Shumpert and Kyrie. That is his true value taking all the BS out.
I doubt they get that much, but if they work it correctly and play teams off of each other, they will get pretty close (maybe not from Phoenix but from Denver or someone else). I like the Cavs approach of putting it out there that they are analyzing everything and in no rush, but looking for best deal that makes sense for them. This might provoke teams to realize they have to up their offer.

[phraoh]

Meanwhile I swear David Griffin just want into the restaurant I am at in Cleveland...I am sure it is him. He is in shorts (which makes sense since he doesn't have a job!! Maybe I should ask him what they can get for Kyrie??!!

[Takingbaconback]

Sounds like Phoenix is not going to put Jackson in the trade seeing how Cavs are approaching this. And they might as well because they aren't going to get anything fair now, probably not ever but it's worth a shot for midseason when there are more options and situations change in the league

[clyde21]

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Well this means they are admitting they would trade one of them !! Anyways all these quotes, etc. are just positioning by teams. The fact that all these tweets are coming out ought to tell everyone that there are several teams very interested in Kyrie and they want to get a deal done but as little as possible in the assets they are giving away. Its also being put out there that the Cavs are in no hurry and want the right package. The thought that Cavs are not going to get something substantial back in return is due to wishful thinking of the teams that are interested. They aren't selling Kyrie for 70 cents on the dollar...maybe 90 or 95, but pretty close to his value...His value is Jackson, Bledsoe, Chriss, and 2 number 1's...for Shumpert and Kyrie. That is his true value taking all the BS out.
I doubt they get that much, but if they work it correctly and play teams off of each other, they will get pretty close (maybe not from Phoenix but from Denver or someone else). I like the Cavs approach of putting it out there that they are analyzing everything and in no rush, but looking for best deal that makes sense for them. This might provoke teams to realize they have to up their offer.

Harris+Murray doesn't make sense financially anyways. The Nuggets would have to also throw in Faried or Chandler for it to work, and I just can't see that happening.

Faried or Chandler + Harris or Murray is the package that would work.