Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion #5: A Serving of Irving?

[Sreister]

Suns fans: Here is a Cavs fan take on this:
Even by giving up Bledsoe and Jackson , the Suns win the trade. The Cavs get an uproven high upside rookie and an pg that can hardly stay healthy for a a proven allstar with the best handles in the league and some Suns fans are saying that isn't worth more to you than an unproven high ceiling athlete? The timeline argument holds some weight , but not if the org is committed to Irving once they sign him. Cleveland has not been committed to him since Lebron came back,hence the trade request. So aside from the argument that he might leave, using the rational that since he won't commit to signing an extension now as opposed to after opting out in 2019 to get paid more is not sensible. He stands to lose 15Mil if he signs an extension in the next year.(provided he makes allnba teams which he should) It means nothing really in this trade proposal.. Also , I think the back court of Irving Booker would be hands down the best in the league, and the odds of Irving not staying in Phoenix would be slim to none.

You're right, the Suns get the best player in the trade. That being said, you are arguing your point with a lot of subjectivity. Best handles in the league? Arguable, definitely subjective. Irving/Book best backcourt in the league, even saying hands down? Steph and Klay would like to speak with you. Slim to none he bolts? That's not even subjective, that's maybe, at BEST, a 50/50 shot.

You act like you're selling Irving to upper management, not to fans.

I want Irving, but for Bled/Warren/Miami Pick. Nothing more. And I'll miss TJ, too.

[Preacherpj]

With Irving stating that he wont commit it a trade if it does happen shouldnt be anything more than Kyrie for Bledsoe and maybe a second rounder.

Why in the world would Cleveland do that? Kyrie is better and younger than Bledsoe.

If all it took was Bledsoe and maybe a second rounder Sarver would have driven Bledsoe personally to Cleveland and dropped him off.

Is Kyrie better? how much defense does Kyrie play? how much rebounding doesnt Kyrie do? Last year Kyrie averaged 25.2 points a game but the year before he only scored 19.6. Bledsoe on the other hand averaged 21.1 points last year, rebounded, passed and played better defense. To top this off Bledsoe is shown to be a team player working during the summer months to improve the team and himself. Kyrie has been complaining that he doesnt want to be on a team with one of the greatest players to play the game and promising that he won't commit to any team that trades for him. In the end for the long term health of your team Bledsoe looks like a much better piece despite being two years old. If Cleveland wants to risk their season by not trading Kyrie but the difference between Kyrie and Bledsoe isnt that big.

Yes, Kyrie is better than Bledsoe. He's also younger than Bledsoe. Defensively the difference would have been bigger years ago, but Bledsoe doesn't play defense like he used, their assist numbers are nearly identical and Kyrie is a much better offensive player. Specifically he's a better shooter at every level of the court and that's something the Suns desperately need. Yes he's better. And he's younger.

[Preacherpj]

Suns fans: Here is a Cavs fan take on this:
Even by giving up Bledsoe and Jackson , the Suns win the trade. The Cavs get an uproven high upside rookie and an pg that can hardly stay healthy for a a proven allstar with the best handles in the league and some Suns fans are saying that isn't worth more to you than an unproven high ceiling athlete? The timeline argument holds some weight , but not if the org is committed to Irving once they sign him. Cleveland has not been committed to him since Lebron came back,hence the trade request. So aside from the argument that he might leave, using the rational that since he won't commit to signing an extension now as opposed to after opting out in 2019 to get paid more is not sensible. He stands to lose 15Mil if he signs an extension in the next year.(provided he makes allnba teams which he should) It means nothing really in this trade proposal.. Also , I think the back court of Irving Booker would be hands down the best in the league, and the odds of Irving not staying in Phoenix would be slim to none.

You're right, the Suns get the best player in the trade. That being said, you are arguing your point with a lot of subjectivity. Best handles in the league? Arguable, definitely subjective. Irving/Book best backcourt in the league, even saying hands down? Steph and Klay would like to speak with you. Slim to none he bolts? That's not even subjective, that's maybe, at BEST, a 50/50 shot.

You act like you're selling Irving to upper management, not to fans.

I want Irving, but for Bled/Warren/Miami Pick. Nothing more. And I'll miss TJ, too.

I agree, Booker/Irving would be far from the best backcourt in the league.

BTW, I'm a Wisconsin fan, nice to see another Big Ten guy in here. I always like the Hawkeyes when they aren't playing UW.

[JJ13]

People get that we don't need Kyrie to be pass-first, right? Booker, Jackson, Ulis and Bender are all + passers.

Best backcourts if we get Kyrie:

1. Steph/Klay
2. CP3/Harden
3. Lillard/McCollum - Wall/Beal - Kyrie/Booker tie

[jredsaz]

Bledsoe could bolt in 2 years as well.

What assets are the Suns giving up in this scenario?

I see your point. But my point is that there's risk in staying the course and having Bledsoe get hurt or walk. I mean, who knows? We are all just protecting what we think might happen. Kyrie might stay. Kyrie might bolt. We will have to roll the dice a time or two to build a contender, imo.

The assets they are giving up equate to the trade value he has and the assets we could get for him. It's opportunity cost. Whether it's Bledsoe + for Irving or Bledsoe for multiple assets, those are the assets you lose if he walks.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

[Preacherpj]

People get that we don't need Kyrie to be pass-first, right? Booker, Jackson, Ulis and Bender are all + passers.

Best backcourts if we get Kyrie:

1. Steph/Klay
2. CP3/Harden
3. Lillard/McCollum - Wall/Beal - Kyrie/Booker tie

Wall / Beal would be ahead of Kyrie/Booker IMO, Wall is a stud.

[Sreister]

Suns fans: Here is a Cavs fan take on this:
Even by giving up Bledsoe and Jackson , the Suns win the trade. The Cavs get an uproven high upside rookie and an pg that can hardly stay healthy for a a proven allstar with the best handles in the league and some Suns fans are saying that isn't worth more to you than an unproven high ceiling athlete? The timeline argument holds some weight , but not if the org is committed to Irving once they sign him. Cleveland has not been committed to him since Lebron came back,hence the trade request. So aside from the argument that he might leave, using the rational that since he won't commit to signing an extension now as opposed to after opting out in 2019 to get paid more is not sensible. He stands to lose 15Mil if he signs an extension in the next year.(provided he makes allnba teams which he should) It means nothing really in this trade proposal.. Also , I think the back court of Irving Booker would be hands down the best in the league, and the odds of Irving not staying in Phoenix would be slim to none.

You're right, the Suns get the best player in the trade. That being said, you are arguing your point with a lot of subjectivity. Best handles in the league? Arguable, definitely subjective. Irving/Book best backcourt in the league, even saying hands down? Steph and Klay would like to speak with you. Slim to none he bolts? That's not even subjective, that's maybe, at BEST, a 50/50 shot.

You act like you're selling Irving to upper management, not to fans.

I want Irving, but for Bled/Warren/Miami Pick. Nothing more. And I'll miss TJ, too.

I agree, Booker/Irving would be far from the best backcourt in the league.

BTW, I'm a Wisconsin fan, nice to see another Big Ten guy in here. I always like the Hawkeyes when they aren't playing UW.

Nice! Yeah, I can tolerate Wisconsin..

But yeah I'm actually from Iowa, so definitely not a usual Suns fan, but then again being from Iowa (no sports teams) I can pick and choose!

[suns91fan]

People get that we don't need Kyrie to be pass-first, right? Booker, Jackson, Ulis and Bender are all + passers.

Best backcourts if we get Kyrie:

1. Steph/Klay
2. CP3/Harden
3. Lillard/McCollum - Wall/Beal - Kyrie/Booker tie

Raptors, Grizzlies, Hornets? Possibly Celtics and Thunder depending on how you rate some of their guards.

[JJ13]

People get that we don't need Kyrie to be pass-first, right? Booker, Jackson, Ulis and Bender are all + passers.

Best backcourts if we get Kyrie:

1. Steph/Klay
2. CP3/Harden
3. Lillard/McCollum - Wall/Beal - Kyrie/Booker tie

Raptors, Grizzlies, Hornets? Possibly Celtics and Thunder depending on how you rate some of their guards.

Hell no to all of those except maybe Raptors. Celts just lost Bradley. Thunder / Charlotte / Grizz have who at SG? Troy Daniels? Malik Monk???

[jredsaz]

People get that we don't need Kyrie to be pass-first, right? Booker, Jackson, Ulis and Bender are all + passers.

Best backcourts if we get Kyrie:

1. Steph/Klay
2. CP3/Harden
3. Lillard/McCollum - Wall/Beal - Kyrie/Booker tie

Wall / Beal would be ahead of Kyrie/Booker IMO, Wall is a stud.

So is Kyrie

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

[suns91fan]

People get that we don't need Kyrie to be pass-first, right? Booker, Jackson, Ulis and Bender are all + passers.

Best backcourts if we get Kyrie:

1. Steph/Klay
2. CP3/Harden
3. Lillard/McCollum - Wall/Beal - Kyrie/Booker tie

Raptors, Grizzlies, Hornets? Possibly Celtics and Thunder depending on how you rate some of their guards.

Hell no to all of those except maybe Raptors. Celts just lost Bradley. Thunder / Charlotte / Grizz have who at SG? Troy Daniels? Malik Monk???

Booker is still a bad player, and can't be compared to guys like Allen (as much as he's washed up), Batum etc. These guys are all positive on the court and that's already a solid advantage other backcourts have over the Suns. Some of these teams like Thunder and Grizzlies even have guards better than Irving so their advantage is clear. I assume you were talking about the current situation, so i didn't consider potential of these backcourts (where Suns would look better).

[matt131]

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/cavaliers-no-sense-of-urgency-trade-kyrie-irving/#qbVZKUxzx3U9qz6d.97

[bwgood77]

Also McDonough is in a comfy spot with a 3 year deal and no pressure to win.

That all changes if we get Irving, he's back to having PG drama and competing for the 8th seed.

This was basically my point in the other thread. Trading for him puts a lot more pressure on him, and if he walks, I can't see McD keeping his job much longer, and probably for good reason.

[Kerrsed]

Read on Twitter

[TOO]

Nobody is giving up an elite prospect for Irving. Enjoy that big FU Dan Gilbert, you ****.

[Villalobos]

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/cavaliers-no-sense-of-urgency-trade-kyrie-irving/#qbVZKUxzx3U9qz6d.97

[Qwigglez]

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/cavaliers-no-sense-of-urgency-trade-kyrie-irving/#qbVZKUxzx3U9qz6d.97

Bluff. Cavs need to move Kyrie before they end up losing both Lebron and Irving. Cavs can still get decent value for Kyrie, though if they wait til next year or even midway thru the season they could end up settling for a terrible package like the Pacers did for George.

[bwoolf2]

People get that we don't need Kyrie to be pass-first, right? Booker, Jackson, Ulis and Bender are all + passers.

Best backcourts if we get Kyrie:

1. Steph/Klay
2. CP3/Harden
3. Lillard/McCollum - Wall/Beal - Kyrie/Booker tie

When did \Booker become a + passer I love him and all but he is far from a plus passer at this point if we are being honest he is a chucker, with a lot of potential to be a really good player should he put it all together. and Jackson and Bender have shown the ability to be good passers but have yet to do it on an NBA court in real games for significant minutes. We probably have one person on this team that would be considered a + passer and that is Ulis. The rest at this point are pipe dreams.

[mademan]

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/cavaliers-no-sense-of-urgency-trade-kyrie-irving/#qbVZKUxzx3U9qz6d.97

Bluff. Cavs need to move Kyrie before they end up losing both Lebron and Irving. Cavs can still get decent value for Kyrie, though if they wait til next year or even midway thru the season they could end up settling for a terrible package like the Pacers did for George.

If they think lebrons already a goner, selling short on kyrie doesn't make sense. Regardless of the locker room problems, Cleveland will still be in the finals next year and kyrie isn't gonna blow it just because. He's a better option than Bledsoe and whatever small asset the Suns are likely offering right now.

I'm not saying keeping him is the top option, but it has to be an option

[Stillwater]

Suns fans: Here is a Cavs fan take on this:
Even by giving up Bledsoe and Jackson , the Suns win the trade. The Cavs get an uproven high upside rookie and an pg that can hardly stay healthy for a a proven allstar with the best handles in the league and some Suns fans are saying that isn't worth more to you than an unproven high ceiling athlete? The timeline argument holds some weight , but not if the org is committed to Irving once they sign him. Cleveland has not been committed to him since Lebron came back,hence the trade request. So aside from the argument that he might leave, using the rational that since he won't commit to signing an extension now as opposed to after opting out in 2019 to get paid more is not sensible. He stands to lose 15Mil if he signs an extension in the next year.(provided he makes allnba teams which he should) It means nothing really in this trade proposal.. Also , I think the back court of Irving Booker would be hands down the best in the league, and the odds of Irving not staying in Phoenix would be slim to none.

You ain't getting Josh Jackson, friend. You had Lebron. Now we get the super-duperstar. It's only fair. Cheers!

ok man, you keep him. If your'e org feels that highly about Jackson,you are right we are not getting him for anyone on our roster including Lebron. I am not happy about Irving and his request at all. But for someone to assume Jackson is the next Lebron or on the same level? wow that I definitely don't see.