Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion #5: A Serving of Irving?

[charley barkles]

Suns fans: Here is a Cavs fan take on this:
Even by giving up Bledsoe and Jackson , the Suns win the trade. The Cavs get an uproven high upside rookie and an pg that can hardly stay healthy for a a proven allstar with the best handles in the league and some Suns fans are saying that isn't worth more to you than an unproven high ceiling athlete? The timeline argument holds some weight , but not if the org is committed to Irving once they sign him. Cleveland has not been committed to him since Lebron came back,hence the trade request. So aside from the argument that he might leave, using the rational that since he won't commit to signing an extension now as opposed to after opting out in 2019 to get paid more is not sensible. He stands to lose 15Mil if he signs an extension in the next year.(provided he makes allnba teams which he should) It means nothing really in this trade proposal.. Also , I think the back court of Irving Booker would be hands down the best in the league, and the odds of Irving not staying in Phoenix would be slim to none.

This might be true if it was value for value, but the reality of the situation is that Kyrie Irving demanded a trade. He wants out. He doesn't want to play with Lebron or with the Cavs any more. That destroys his trade value because EVERYONE know that the Cavs have to move him. I'm sure the Pacers and Bulls wanted more for PG and Butler, but since they asked out and it was public knowledge... they backed their team in a corner.

Cavs fans should not expect to get fair value for Kyrie, let alone someone to overpay. If you think

[Waylay13]

Suns fans: Here is a Cavs fan take on this:
Even by giving up Bledsoe and Jackson , the Suns win the trade. The Cavs get an uproven high upside rookie and an pg that can hardly stay healthy for a a proven allstar with the best handles in the league and some Suns fans are saying that isn't worth more to you than an unproven high ceiling athlete? The timeline argument holds some weight , but not if the org is committed to Irving once they sign him. Cleveland has not been committed to him since Lebron came back,hence the trade request. So aside from the argument that he might leave, using the rational that since he won't commit to signing an extension now as opposed to after opting out in 2019 to get paid more is not sensible. He stands to lose 15Mil if he signs an extension in the next year.(provided he makes allnba teams which he should) It means nothing really in this trade proposal.. Also , I think the back court of Irving Booker would be hands down the best in the league, and the odds of Irving not staying in Phoenix would be slim to none.

You ain't getting Josh Jackson, friend. You had Lebron. Now we get the super-duperstar. It's only fair. Cheers!

ok man, you keep him. If your'e org feels that highly about Jackson,you are right we are not getting him for anyone on our roster including Lebron. I am not happy about Irving and his request at all. But for someone to assume Jackson is the next Lebron or on the same level? wow that I definitely don't see.

Personally I think I am one of the biggest Jackson fans on the board and I dont expect him to be anything close to Lebron but the difference is that I dont rate Kyrie much higher then Bledsoe. I expect Jackson to average 12.5 pts, 7 rbs, 1.5 ass, 1 stl, 1 blk per game in about 25 minutes, the biggest thing is that I think he will drive his teammates to be better defenders especially Booker (this is what I think is his real value right now). So when we look at Kyrie vs. Bledsoe it important to note that overall the difference in missed games between them is very close as a matter of fact Kyrie likely would have missed a higher precentage of game over his career than Bledsoe if Bledsoe hadnt be forced to sit out with knee soreness from the all star game on for the Suns team.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Bledsoe could bolt in 2 years as well.

What assets are the Suns giving up in this scenario?

I see your point. But my point is that there's risk in staying the course and having Bledsoe get hurt or walk. I mean, who knows? We are all just protecting what we think might happen. Kyrie might stay. Kyrie might bolt. We will have to roll the dice a time or two to build a contender, imo.

I'm 100 percent into a Bledsoe trade and have been for years....it needs to happen and soon. This Kyrie one just doesn't work for me

[blee732]

What assets are the Suns giving up in this scenario?

I see your point. But my point is that there's risk in staying the course and having Bledsoe get hurt or walk. I mean, who knows? We are all just protecting what we think might happen. Kyrie might stay. Kyrie might bolt. We will have to roll the dice a time or two to build a contender, imo.

I'm 100 percent into a Bledsoe trade and have been for years....it needs to happen and soon. This Kyrie one just doesn't work for me

Same boat here. Kyrie is great, but I'm not a fan of the fit. I would rather see Bled moved for players/picks that fit our rebuild timeline better.

That being said, I wouldn't mind trading for Kyrie if we can buy low and then moving him elsewhere down the line.

[AtheJ415]

Regardless of whether we land Irving or not, I really want to see McD make a big push for Anthony Davis next offseason. If we have a top 3 pick, I would start the package with that and pretty much anything they want. We'd probably have to give up Jackson though which would hurt but that's the only player I would be OK with it.

Starting a deal with Jackson, 2018 1st, Miami's 2021 as a starting point.
Ultimately, you want a core of Booker and Davis. Then you start putting the parts around them.
I know it would take more. You also have to remember the C's can offer way more than we can. So that's who we'd have to watch out for.

Not necessarily. It entirely depends on how their draft picks end up. If you are NO and are considering trading Davis (which I don't think they would, but in this scenario assume they are), then you would want young players and high ranking picks. Thus, guys with value like Crowder wouldn't be good fits (he's 28 next season in this scenario). They have 1 Brooklyn pick left and the extra pick they got from the Fultz trade this year and that is it. Ainge has squandered many of these picks. In the last decade his best pick is Marcus Smart, who is about to get paid and thus isn't going to be the value he is on a rookie deal. Accordingly, it will depend entirely on how Smart, Brown, Tatum, and the Brooklyn picks turn out. In this scenario, I assume Brooklyn would have a top 5 pick that would get sent to Boston, but so would we. The question will be who has more value among the ancillary players (Phoenix won't trade Booker, Boston won't trade IT), so will some combo of Jackson, Bender, Chriss, Warren outperform Boston's young pieces? That would be the key.

[NavLDO]

Read on Twitter

This is my stance also.


Bender's value is low because he hasnt shown as much as other rookies last season. But thats good for Suns as they can stash him in the corner until he is ready.


Chriss is frustrating but has shown glimpses of promise also, he has shown more that he can entice other teams to want him.


Everyone else can be traded, Suns need impact players not role players at this point. Once you get your 3-4 impact players, you surround them with role players that fit.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2016.html

Exactly. He was one of the better rookies last season that played any meaningful minutes. Now, that can change quickly, which why now is the ideal time to maximize his trade value.

I would prefer to keep Warren, and would be fine with trading Chriss.

So, basically, my categories (a=non-starters-to-d=required, with b=prefer not, and c=fine either way, and e=McD is the Man for making it happen) for Kyrie trade, for me personally are:

a=Booker, Warren, Jackson
b=Bender, Ulis, Sauce, DJ Jr, Davon Reed, Alec Peters
c=Dudley, James, Millsap, Tyson, James, Our 2018, Our 2019 Picks
d=Bledsoe, Chriss, Miami's 2018 Pick
e=Brandon Knight

My desire, going forward, would be to build around (ages as of season start) Kyrie (25), Booker (21), Jackson (20), Warren (24), Sauce (24)/New Center as our starters, and if we did a 10 man rotation, Ulis, Reed, DJ Jr, Peters, Bender, as our Bench. All we need is for either Williams to become a monster Center, we re-sign Len and he continues his development, or we acquire one, with the latter being the most likely, since 6'9" just isn't going to but it long term, and we have shown little interest in Len.

[AtheJ415]

The longer this drags on, and if the teams are serious about who they won't include, I am becoming more optimistic that we can get Kyrie for Bledsoe plus something minor (like the Miami pick), without having to include Chriss or Warren. If Denver and MN reports are true then Phoenix has no incentive to offer more because I just don't see who is offering anybody as good as Bledsoe to begin with. The only argument I can see is Aldridge from SA. Even Teague from MN, if Wiggins is not a part of it, is a big drop below Bled.

[NTB]

The longer this drags on, and if the teams are serious about who they won't include, I am becoming more optimistic that we can get Kyrie for Bledsoe plus something minor (like the Miami pick), without having to include Chriss or Warren. If Denver and MN reports are true then Phoenix has no incentive to offer more because I just don't see who is offering anybody as good as Bledsoe to begin with. The only argument I can see is Aldridge from SA. Even Teague from MN, if Wiggins is not a part of it, is a big drop below Bled.

They can't even offer Teague for the next 6 months IIRC.

[Stillwater]

Suns fans: Here is a Cavs fan take on this:
Even by giving up Bledsoe and Jackson , the Suns win the trade. The Cavs get an uproven high upside rookie and an pg that can hardly stay healthy for a a proven allstar with the best handles in the league and some Suns fans are saying that isn't worth more to you than an unproven high ceiling athlete? The timeline argument holds some weight , but not if the org is committed to Irving once they sign him. Cleveland has not been committed to him since Lebron came back,hence the trade request. So aside from the argument that he might leave, using the rational that since he won't commit to signing an extension now as opposed to after opting out in 2019 to get paid more is not sensible. He stands to lose 15Mil if he signs an extension in the next year.(provided he makes allnba teams which he should) It means nothing really in this trade proposal.. Also , I think the back court of Irving Booker would be hands down the best in the league, and the odds of Irving not staying in Phoenix would be slim to none.

This might be true if it was value for value, but the reality of the situation is that Kyrie Irving demanded a trade. He wants out. He doesn't want to play with Lebron or with the Cavs any more. That destroys his trade value because EVERYONE know that the Cavs have to move him. I'm sure the Pacers and Bulls wanted more for PG and Butler, but since they asked out and it was public knowledge... they backed their team in a corner.

Cavs fans should not expect to get fair value for Kyrie, let alone someone to overpay. If you think

They don't have to move him at all,that's just it if they don't move him and he chooses to play like garbage he hurts his own brand in fa in 2019.

[kingstyyyle]

Suns fans: Here is a Cavs fan take on this:
Even by giving up Bledsoe and Jackson , the Suns win the trade. The Cavs get an uproven high upside rookie and an pg that can hardly stay healthy for a a proven allstar with the best handles in the league and some Suns fans are saying that isn't worth more to you than an unproven high ceiling athlete? The timeline argument holds some weight , but not if the org is committed to Irving once they sign him. Cleveland has not been committed to him since Lebron came back,hence the trade request. So aside from the argument that he might leave, using the rational that since he won't commit to signing an extension now as opposed to after opting out in 2019 to get paid more is not sensible. He stands to lose 15Mil if he signs an extension in the next year.(provided he makes allnba teams which he should) It means nothing really in this trade proposal.. Also , I think the back court of Irving Booker would be hands down the best in the league, and the odds of Irving not staying in Phoenix would be slim to none.

This might be true if it was value for value, but the reality of the situation is that Kyrie Irving demanded a trade. He wants out. He doesn't want to play with Lebron or with the Cavs any more. That destroys his trade value because EVERYONE know that the Cavs have to move him. I'm sure the Pacers and Bulls wanted more for PG and Butler, but since they asked out and it was public knowledge... they backed their team in a corner.

Cavs fans should not expect to get fair value for Kyrie, let alone someone to overpay. If you think

They don't have to move him at all,that's just it if they don't move him and he chooses to play like garbage he hurts his own brand in fa in 2019.

I don't think the Suns have to trade for him either. It would be nice to get him on the cheap but that's the only reason we would be interested. I think we're fine moving on if we have to give up more than we want at this point.

[Blonde]

Cleveland is shooting themselves in the foot by waiting. The longer they go without making a deal, the worse the offers will get. I'm starting to feel like they might just hold on to him and hope he'll stay after Lebron leaves.

[TeamTragic]

I'm thinking both Kyrie and LeBron remain with Cavs and work it out.

Think about it - who's a better option than the Cavs for LeBron in 2018? The Lakers? Probably not.

Kyrie may want out, but if they don't trade him, there's a chance he may end up reconciling with LeBron and resigning with the Cavs.

Maybe not, but maybe so.

Terry Pluto was on The Herd and said Lebron-Kyrie are so far beyond repair that he's getting dealt.

That is why Kyrie wants out. He doesn't want be the second option. He will be the man in Phoenix right above Booker.

We have great young talent and if we need to move certain players for additional support it can be done.

That pick next year will be perfect. We should definitely try and get AD and/or Cousins.

[Stillwater]

This might be true if it was value for value, but the reality of the situation is that Kyrie Irving demanded a trade. He wants out. He doesn't want to play with Lebron or with the Cavs any more. That destroys his trade value because EVERYONE know that the Cavs have to move him. I'm sure the Pacers and Bulls wanted more for PG and Butler, but since they asked out and it was public knowledge... they backed their team in a corner.

Cavs fans should not expect to get fair value for Kyrie, let alone someone to overpay. If you think

They don't have to move him at all,that's just it if they don't move him and he chooses to play like garbage he hurts his own brand in fa in 2019.

I don't think the Suns have to trade for him either. It would be nice to get him on the cheap but that's the only reason we would be interested. I think we're fine moving on if we have to give up more than we want at this point.

yep no need to trade for him, can just continue on the course you are on and hope that the Core develops into a winner.
If I was a Suns fan there are only 10 players I would trade Booker or Jackson for and KI is one of them.
Cavs are not going to trade him if they don't "get better" for trading him, so if teams just want to get him for nothing he will remain in Cleveland turmoil or not.

[matt131]

maybe this was posted already i don't know:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2725498-kyrie-irving-trade-rumors-cavs-would-love-devin-booker-in-a-deal

[noelphx]

They can love him all they want. They aren't getting him lol.

[TeamTragic]

maybe this was posted already i don't know:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2725498-kyrie-irving-trade-rumors-cavs-would-love-devin-booker-in-a-deal

[insert team] would love Devin Booker

[thamadkant]

Bledsoe
Warren
Reed
Heat 2018 Pick

for

Irving
Frye


Done.

[MrMiyagi]

They don't have to move him at all,that's just it if they don't move him and he chooses to play like garbage he hurts his own brand in fa in 2019.

I don't think the Suns have to trade for him either. It would be nice to get him on the cheap but that's the only reason we would be interested. I think we're fine moving on if we have to give up more than we want at this point.

yep no need to trade for him, can just continue on the course you are on and hope that the Core develops into a winner.
If I was a Suns fan there are only 10 players I would trade Booker or Jackson for and KI is one of them.
Cavs are not going to trade him if they don't "get better" for trading him, so if teams just want to get him for nothing he will remain in Cleveland turmoil or not.

Cleveland fan says, "If I were Phoenix, I'd trade Jackson or Booker for Kyrie"

Cleveland fan means, "I hope Phoenix is dumb enough to give us Jackson or Booker and more for Kyrie"

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

They don't have to move him at all,that's just it if they don't move him and he chooses to play like garbage he hurts his own brand in fa in 2019.

I don't think the Suns have to trade for him either. It would be nice to get him on the cheap but that's the only reason we would be interested. I think we're fine moving on if we have to give up more than we want at this point.

yep no need to trade for him, can just continue on the course you are on and hope that the Core develops into a winner.
If I was a Suns fan there are only 10 players I would trade Booker or Jackson for and KI is one of them.
Cavs are not going to trade him if they don't "get better" for trading him, so if teams just want to get him for nothing he will remain in Cleveland turmoil or not.

why would you trade a young sg whos deadly from outside with a ton of potential...and have his rights for the next 7-8 yrs for KI who can leave in 2 yrs and wont lead your team anywhere without that other sg in the loaded west...?

[MrMiyagi]

If Kyrie is so good, why are they afraid enough of losing LeBron that they'd trade Kyrie?