Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion #5: A Serving of Irving?

[SSOL]

He won't be.

[TASTIC]

If anything does happen, I think it's most likely what Simmons hinted at:

Bledsoe, CLee to CLE
Kyrie to NY
Frank Ntilikina, Frye to PHX

Picks involved obviously...I'd expect something from NY - though CLE would too.

[NTB]

I really want that Frank deal

[Sunzgunz]

Haha, I just found my first lowball trade rumor from a legit source. By legit I don't mean there's validity behind it, I just mean it wasn't made from a 12 year old.

Suns Get:
Kyrie Irving, Iman Shumpert

Cleveland Get:
Eric Bledsoe, Jared Dudley

First off, in no way do I think Kyrie's market value has dropped this far, but perception could be waning a bit.

Poor Cavs need a gag order on these two until they can get this thing figured out. Otherwise they'll be forced to trade him for a heavily protected 3rd round draft pick and poorly written "I.O.U." on yellow post it. ...kind of sad actually!

who is da source?

Like I said prior to posting it, its a rumor with no validity behind it, hence why I didn't bother posting it and defined a source as someone over the age of 12

For the record, it was a Lucas Johnson from Valley of the Suns??? ...I have no idea who he is and know abosulely nothing about that site, just funny to see perception wane so low.

[matt131]

If anything does happen, I think it's most likely what Simmons hinted at:

Bledsoe, CLee to CLE
Kyrie to NY
Frank Ntilikina, Frye to PHX

Picks involved obviously...I'd expect something from NY - though CLE would too.

I don't understand. What part of that can't we do on our own? Isn't bled, Dudley, and the Miami pick just as good/better for the Cavs?


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[jredsaz]

If anything does happen, I think it's most likely what Simmons hinted at:

Bledsoe, CLee to CLE
Kyrie to NY
Frank Ntilikina, Frye to PHX

Picks involved obviously...I'd expect something from NY - though CLE would too.

But the deal we can offer straight up is better.

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[RaisingArizona]

slightly offtopic, but hell of a baseball game today!

[DirtyDez]

slightly offtopic, but hell of a baseball game today!

MVP

[matt131]

Haha, I just found my first lowball trade rumor from a legit source. By legit I don't mean there's validity behind it, I just mean it wasn't made from a 12 year old.

Suns Get:
Kyrie Irving, Iman Shumpert

Cleveland Get:
Eric Bledsoe, Jared Dudley

First off, in no way do I think Kyrie's market value has dropped this far, but perception could be waning a bit.

Poor Cavs need a gag order on these two until they can get this thing figured out. Otherwise they'll be forced to trade him for a heavily protected 3rd round draft pick and poorly written "I.O.U." on yellow post it. ...kind of sad actually!

who is da source?

Like I said prior to posting it, its a rumor with no validity behind it, hence why I didn't bother posting it and defined a source as someone over the age of 12

For the record, it was a Lucas Johnson from Valley of the Suns??? ...I have no idea who he is and know abosulely nothing about that site, just funny to see perception wane so low.

Thanks. I understood it wasn't a confirmed trade rumor, but I was interested as to who came up with it. I would love if the price dropped that low. Go for it for sure at that point


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[jredsaz]

slightly offtopic, but hell of a baseball game today!

I mean WOW! That was a hell of a win. And Goldy got back on track.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

[JMac1]

slightly offtopic, but hell of a baseball game today!

MVP

[Sunzgunz]

who is da source?

Like I said prior to posting it, its a rumor with no validity behind it, hence why I didn't bother posting it and defined a source as someone over the age of 12

For the record, it was a Lucas Johnson from Valley of the Suns??? ...I have no idea who he is and know abosulely nothing about that site, just funny to see perception wane so low.

Thanks. I understood it wasn't a confirmed trade rumor, but I was interested as to who came up with it. I would love if the price dropped that low. Go for it for sure at that point


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

No, your Good! Sorry I didn't make it clear. I almost would feel cheap taking Kyrie like that. Not saying i wouldnt though

[oddity]

Whats with the Davon Reed cryptic posts. Something to Reed into?

That wasn't punny.

[bwgood77]

Haha, I just found my first lowball trade rumor from a legit source. By legit I don't mean there's validity behind it, I just mean it wasn't made from a 12 year old.

Suns Get:
Kyrie Irving, Iman Shumpert

Cleveland Get:
Eric Bledsoe, Jared Dudley

First off, in no way do I think Kyrie's market value has dropped this far, but perception could be waning a bit.

Poor Cavs need a gag order on these two until they can get this thing figured out. Otherwise they'll be forced to trade him for a heavily protected 3rd round draft pick and poorly written "I.O.U." on yellow post it. ...kind of sad actually!

who is da source?

Like I said prior to posting it, its a rumor with no validity behind it, hence why I didn't bother posting it and defined a source as someone over the age of 12

For the record, it was a Lucas Johnson from Valley of the Suns??? ...I have no idea who he is and know abosulely nothing about that site, just funny to see perception wane so low.

Tom Haberstroh in the 5 on 5 espn article had the deal as Bledsoe/Dudley as well...I thought that was who you were referencing until I saw this response.

[NavLDO]

Am I to understand that top 5 picks aren't valuable because Alex Len didn't turn out so well?

Do #27 picks explode in value over time because Gobert worked out? #16 picks because of Giannis? What are we even talking about?

You pretty much proved my point there. The draft is a crapshoot. Tank-advocatists hedge their entire future on draft picks that may never pan out. You can hit big on a top 5 pick, or you may not. You may hit big on a late first rounder, who knows?

Im not willing to pass up the opportunity to acquire Kyrie by drafting that Top 5 pick superstar that may never happen. Who knows if Bender or Chriss pan out? People are saying the same things about Bender that we were saying about Len 3 years ago. Lets not let the obsession and addiction to a "full blown youth movement" blind us from the roses in front of us, which is an opportunity to trade for a Superstar player while still keeping a huge chunk of our young assets

Exactly. I'm coming into this debate blind, and have no idea what the original argument is about, but if it has anything to do with not wanting to trade our next year's draft pick as part of the package for Kyrie, well, to me, that makes no sense. Heck, Kyrie is a #1 Overall Pick. What does that mean? IDK. Some will say he hasn't lived up to #1 Overall Pick status, well that happens...a lot...if one is in the camp that he has, then great, why wouldn't you trade any pick we own as part of the package, since Kyrie is only 25, and has at least 6-8 good years left in him. Maybe he and Booker work together famously, who knows?

But back to draft picks and this specific trade. I also see a ton of fans here saying 'I wouldn't trade our pick, but I would trade the Heat's. Why? If we get Irving by trading Chriss, our 2018 pick, and Bledsoe, regardless who 'starts', we likely have Irving, Booker, Jackson, Warren, Chandler, Sauce, Bender, Dudley, and Ulis getting 20+ minutes a game. That's a good blend of veteran experience and youth, and despite what some may think, I consider the 2+ years younger player, who even has one less NBA year experience, BUT, has 1700 more minutes played, as being more of a 'veteran' player. So that's Kyrie, Chandler, Dudley, or 1/3, as being seasoned vets, another 2 as being considered to young veterans, and the other four as brand new.

Yes, they are on the young side, but not impossibly so that they cannot perform well this year. My point is, there is no 'for certain' argument that the Heat will outperform us this season. Heck, look at their roster this upcoming season, and they only have Dragic, Whiteside, Johnson, and Waiters as guys with 5+ years experience with that are halfway decent. I like our odds with Irving to be close to as good as the Heat this year; at best, I see the Heat picking 16th. At worst, unless we win the lottery ( yeah right), we are likely closer to 7th to 9th. Barring an injury to Booker, Kyrie, or Warren, I think we finish in the teens, and I'll leave it at that.

[DirtyDez]

slightly offtopic, but hell of a baseball game today!

MVP

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[Mulhollanddrive]

Bledsoe, Warren, Top 10 Protected Pick.

To paraphrase Louis CK, it only takes time for your circumstances to meet our offer.

[AtheJ415]

Am I to understand that top 5 picks aren't valuable because Alex Len didn't turn out so well?

Do #27 picks explode in value over time because Gobert worked out? #16 picks because of Giannis? What are we even talking about?

You pretty much proved my point there. The draft is a crapshoot. Tank-advocatists hedge their entire future on draft picks that may never pan out. You can hit big on a top 5 pick, or you may not. You may hit big on a late first rounder, who knows?

Im not willing to pass up the opportunity to acquire Kyrie by drafting that Top 5 pick superstar that may never happen. Who knows if Bender or Chriss pan out? People are saying the same things about Bender that we were saying about Len 3 years ago. Lets not let the obsession and addiction to a "full blown youth movement" blind us from the roses in front of us, which is an opportunity to trade for a Superstar player while still keeping a huge chunk of our young assets

Exactly. I'm coming into this debate blind, and have no idea what the original argument is about, but if it has anything to do with not wanting to trade our next year's draft pick as part of the package for Kyrie, well, to me, that makes no sense. Heck, Kyrie is a #1 Overall Pick. What does that mean? IDK. Some will say he hasn't lived up to #1 Overall Pick status, well that happens...a lot...if one is in the camp that he has, then great, why wouldn't you trade any pick we own as part of the package, since Kyrie is only 25, and has at least 6-8 good years left in him. Maybe he and Booker work together famously, who knows?

But back to draft picks and this specific trade. I also see a ton of fans here saying 'I wouldn't trade our pick, but I would trade the Heat's. Why? If we get Irving by trading Chriss, our 2018 pick, and Bledsoe, regardless who 'starts', we likely have Irving, Booker, Jackson, Warren, Chandler, Sauce, Bender, Dudley, and Ulis getting 20+ minutes a game. That's a good blend of veteran experience and youth, and despite what some may think, I consider the 2+ years younger player, who even has one less NBA year experience, BUT, has 1700 more minutes played, as being more of a 'veteran' player. So that's Kyrie, Chandler, Dudley, or 1/3, as being seasoned vets, another 2 as being considered to young veterans, and the other four as brand new.

Yes, they are on the young side, but not impossibly so that they cannot perform well this year. My point is, there is no 'for certain' argument that the Heat will outperform us this season. Heck, look at their roster this upcoming season, and they only have Dragic, Whiteside, Johnson, and Waiters as guys with 5+ years experience with that are halfway decent. I like our odds with Irving to be close to as good as the Heat this year; at best, I see the Heat picking 16th. At worst, unless we win the lottery ( yeah right), we are likely closer to 7th to 9th. Barring an injury to Booker, Kyrie, or Warren, I think we finish in the teens, and I'll leave it at that.

It makes all the sense actually. The gap between Bledsoe and Kyrie is not worth a top 5 pick in this next draft. First, a rookie you control for 7 years. Kyrie you control for 2. Next, the rookie fits better with the age group of the rest of the players, and the top 5 of this upcoming draft is loaded. I would say all of them have the upside of being as good as Kyrie, though obviously not all of them will reach it. Bledsoe alone is nearly as good as Kyrie, and the other teams aren't stepping up their offers enough for us to include our pick to begin with.

Our pick shouldn't be a part of this deal unless appropriately protected. The argument that nothing is for sure would suggest we should trade all of our future draft picks in perpetuity for Kyrie. Josh Jackson isn't a certainty. Booker isn't a certainty. The truth is the minimal cap space those guys occupy combined with the potential to get a franchise cornerstone that you control for nearly a decade is a mammoth thing. The chance that you hit in would be worth more to us than Kyrie. Thus, it is a significant and very tangible thing that you should prevent trading. That is the very reason high picks are cherished in trades for superstars.

[Sunzgunz]

who is da source?

Like I said prior to posting it, its a rumor with no validity behind it, hence why I didn't bother posting it and defined a source as someone over the age of 12

For the record, it was a Lucas Johnson from Valley of the Suns??? ...I have no idea who he is and know abosulely nothing about that site, just funny to see perception wane so low.

Tom Haberstroh in the 5 on 5 espn article had the deal as Bledsoe/Dudley as well...I thought that was who you were referencing until I saw this response.

Holy smokes!!! Cavs fans would go bananas! You think there some weight to that? If we gained Kyrie without losing our youngs or draft picks....our youth core would be pretty damnn impressive!

[Kerrsed]

Like I said prior to posting it, its a rumor with no validity behind it, hence why I didn't bother posting it and defined a source as someone over the age of 12

For the record, it was a Lucas Johnson from Valley of the Suns??? ...I have no idea who he is and know abosulely nothing about that site, just funny to see perception wane so low.

Tom Haberstroh in the 5 on 5 espn article had the deal as Bledsoe/Dudley as well...I thought that was who you were referencing until I saw this response.

Holy smokes!!! Cavs fans would go bananas! You think there some weight to that? If we gained Kyrie without losing our youngs or draft picks....our youth core would be pretty damnn impressive!

No weight at all.