Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

[DaleyBlind]

How good is Josh Jackson as a prospect really? That will be the driver.

What is his ceiling? Shawn Marion?

I'd probably do it because of his potential trade value if a more established star became available prior to the deadline, you could combine that with the Miami pick and likely be competitive for those guys. But would be interested in hearing from Suns fans or people that watched him closely what his ceiling really is, didn't watch him much in college.

Maybe Batum or Kidd-Gilchrist 2.0?

Kidd Gilchrist is a terrible comparison. Jackson already is way better scorer, ball handler and passer.

[BasketballFan7]

exactly, other orgs fan bases that think the Cavs are going to get fleeced when he has 2 years left on his contract are not understanding the value of his contract. Phoenix & Denver will not get him without moving 1 of Jackson or Booker, or 1 of Murray or Harris so as far as I am concerned they can keep their unproven young players and we get a team with some cajones to pay what the asking price is and improve their roster over night. what is fair is fair, there are no steals to be had here,so all the poser orgs can just start talking 2018 draft by the all star break again.

Why is Harris and either Chandler or Faried attractive to any Cleveland fan? The team would be a wreck at PG.

Didn't say the Cavs want only those players, but that Denver is taking them off the table without even making a legit offer of anyone else they have.
These orgs are not getting Irving with that weak stuff.

I agree, I'm commenting on that Denver frequently gets mentioned as a possible trade partner and they don't have what the Cavaliers need, that is a replacement level or better point guard. Murray can play point guard and would fit with LeBron but he is too young too rely on in a featured role. Nobody will be surprised if Rose and Calderon are both on IR a month into the season.

[Revived]

How good is Josh Jackson as a prospect really? That will be the driver.

What is his ceiling? Shawn Marion?

I'd probably do it because of his potential trade value if a more established star became available prior to the deadline, you could combine that with the Miami pick and likely be competitive for those guys. But would be interested in hearing from Suns fans or people that watched him closely what his ceiling really is, didn't watch him much in college.

Maybe Batum or Kidd-Gilchrist 2.0?

Ceiling has been compared by many to Draymond Green and Kawhi Leonard (remember Kawhi couldn't shoot at all when he entered the league either).

Floor is probably MKG.

[LivingLegend]

No chance the Cavs can get Jackson. I bet the most PHX is willing to offer is Bledsoe, Warren, Bender

Ok, then the Suns dont get Kyrie. Thats how this works. Again, the Suns hold 0 card in any trade negotiations. Either give the Cavs their asking price or go into next season with the youngest team in the world trying to win 35 games.

Ok, then the Cavs don't trade Kyrie. That's how this works. Again, the Cavs hold 0 card in any trade negotiations. Disgruntled player that demanded a trade won't be good for the locker room. The Cavs lost leverage when it became public that Kyrie doesn't want to be there. Look at what Jimmy Butler and Paul George were traded for. That's very similar to what the Cavs will get.

Wrong, if you read my previous posts the Cavs hold all the cards. If they dont get the trade they like, they tell Kyrie to report to came and do their best to smooth things over. Hes under contract for 2 more years, the Cavs dont HAVE to do anything. As far as you and I are concerned, Kyrie will be a Cleveland Cavalier until 2020.

[LivingLegend]

Ok, then the Suns dont get Kyrie. Thats how this works.

exactly, other orgs fan bases that think the Cavs are going to get fleeced when he has 2 years left on his contract are not understanding the value of his contract. Phoenix & Denver will not get him without moving 1 of Jackson or Booker, or 1 of Murray or Harris so as far as I am concerned they can keep their unproven young players and we get a team with some cajones to pay what the asking price is and improve their roster over night. what is fair is fair, there are no steals to be had here,so all the poser orgs can just start talking 2018 draft by the all star break again.

Agree, I keep saying Cle has no need to rush this trade. Giving up a top 15-20 player with 2 years on his contract. No way unless you get a good deal. If Kyrie is unhappy so be it, he's under contract and he's not going to intentionally stink because that won't be good for his own reputation/value.

Nailed it. Some dont understand this for some reason. They think Kyrie is 29 years old with 1 year left on his deal and the Cavs have to trade him. They dont have to do anything. Let small market teams desperate for ratings in revenue get in a bidding war--which will happen--and then take the best offer you get.

This isnt a PG13 situation. He had 1 year on his contract and hes 27. Kyrie has 2 years and hes 25. Nor is it a Butler situation. Jimmy Butler is 28 years old, Kyrie is 25. So why do fans think the Cavs have to accept a horrible Zach Levine centered type trade.

[MEGAQUIB]

Ok, then the Suns dont get Kyrie. Thats how this works. Again, the Suns hold 0 card in any trade negotiations. Either give the Cavs their asking price or go into next season with the youngest team in the world trying to win 35 games.

Ok, then the Cavs don't trade Kyrie. That's how this works. Again, the Cavs hold 0 card in any trade negotiations. Disgruntled player that demanded a trade won't be good for the locker room. The Cavs lost leverage when it became public that Kyrie doesn't want to be there. Look at what Jimmy Butler and Paul George were traded for. That's very similar to what the Cavs will get.

Wrong, if you read my previous posts the Cavs hold all the cards. If they dont get the trade they like, they tell Kyrie to report to came and do their best to smooth things over. Hes under contract for 2 more years, the Cavs dont HAVE to do anything. As far as you and I are concerned, Kyrie will be a Cleveland Cavalier until 2020.

Ruining the locker room chemistry and not playing his heart out....

[Nuggets_Talk]

How good is Josh Jackson as a prospect really? That will be the driver.

What is his ceiling? Shawn Marion?

I'd probably do it because of his potential trade value if a more established star became available prior to the deadline, you could combine that with the Miami pick and likely be competitive for those guys. But would be interested in hearing from Suns fans or people that watched him closely what his ceiling really is, didn't watch him much in college.

Maybe Batum or Kidd-Gilchrist 2.0?

Kidd Gilchrist is a terrible comparison. Jackson already is way better scorer, ball handler and passer.

after zero games? impressive.

[collidingNeurons]

exactly, other orgs fan bases that think the Cavs are going to get fleeced when he has 2 years left on his contract are not understanding the value of his contract. Phoenix & Denver will not get him without moving 1 of Jackson or Booker, or 1 of Murray or Harris so as far as I am concerned they can keep their unproven young players and we get a team with some cajones to pay what the asking price is and improve their roster over night. what is fair is fair, there are no steals to be had here,so all the poser orgs can just start talking 2018 draft by the all star break again.

Agree, I keep saying Cle has no need to rush this trade. Giving up a top 15-20 player with 2 years on his contract. No way unless you get a good deal. If Kyrie is unhappy so be it, he's under contract and he's not going to intentionally stink because that won't be good for his own reputation/value.

Nailed it. Some dont understand this for some reason. They think Kyrie is 29 years old with 1 year left on his deal and the Cavs have to trade him. They dont have to do anything. Let small market teams desperate for ratings in revenue get in a bidding war--which will happen--and then take the best offer you get.

This isnt a PG13 situation. He had 1 year on his contract and hes 27. Kyrie has 2 years and hes 25. Nor is it a Butler situation. Jimmy Butler is 28 years old, Kyrie is 25. So why do fans think the Cavs have to accept a horrible Zach Levine centered type trade.

As a Sun fan, i dont want Kyrie at all. But the small market remarks made multiple times in this thread are inaccurate in this case as both Phoenix and Denver are larger TV markets than Cleveland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market

[Nuggets_Talk]

No chance the Cavs can get Jackson. I bet the most PHX is willing to offer is Bledsoe, Warren, Bender

Ok, then the Suns dont get Kyrie. Thats how this works.

exactly, other orgs fan bases that think the Cavs are going to get fleeced when he has 2 years left on his contract are not understanding the value of his contract.

the cavs may not get fleeced, but they wont get equal value. having one extra year over being an expiring isnt worth that much.

Phoenix & Denver will not get him without moving 1 of Jackson or Booker, or 1 of Murray or Harris so as far as I am concerned they can keep their unproven young players and we get a team with some cajones to pay what the asking price is and improve their roster over night.

what if no teams offer what the asking price is?

which btw, no one will. zero teams will end up paying what the cavs asking price is. they will negotiate and end up in the middle somewhere.

what is fair is fair, there are no steals to be had here,so all the poser orgs can just start talking 2018 draft by the all star break again.

who defines what "fair" is?

you cant just claim we want x, y and z. if the market doesnt offer it, then thats not whats hes worth. now if some team offers a superstar in return, then you are right - take it and run!

but you are looking at it through a homers eyes - this isnt how it works in the real world. take a look at what other star players have returned recently, especially those who have made it clear they arent coming back.

[DaleyBlind]

Maybe Batum or Kidd-Gilchrist 2.0?

Kidd Gilchrist is a terrible comparison. Jackson already is way better scorer, ball handler and passer.

after zero games? impressive.

Yeah he is. And dont even attempt to argue Kidd-Gilchrist is better at those 3 skills.

[Nuggets_Talk]

Kidd Gilchrist is a terrible comparison. Jackson already is way better scorer, ball handler and passer.

after zero games? impressive.

Yeah he is. And dont even attempt to argue Kidd-Gilchrist is better at those 3 skills.

of course not. how could I possibly do that after zero professional games?

[Nuggets_Talk]

No chance the Cavs can get Jackson. I bet the most PHX is willing to offer is Bledsoe, Warren, Bender

Ok, then the Suns dont get Kyrie. Thats how this works. Again, the Suns hold 0 card in any trade negotiations. Either give the Cavs their asking price or go into next season with the youngest team in the world trying to win 35 games.

then who holds the cards?

[Nuggets_Talk]

exactly, other orgs fan bases that think the Cavs are going to get fleeced when he has 2 years left on his contract are not understanding the value of his contract. Phoenix & Denver will not get him without moving 1 of Jackson or Booker, or 1 of Murray or Harris so as far as I am concerned they can keep their unproven young players and we get a team with some cajones to pay what the asking price is and improve their roster over night. what is fair is fair, there are no steals to be had here,so all the poser orgs can just start talking 2018 draft by the all star break again.

Why is Harris and either Chandler or Faried attractive to any Cleveland fan? The team would be a wreck at PG.

Didn't say the Cavs want only those players, but that Denver is taking them off the table without even making a legit offer of anyone else they have.
These orgs are not getting Irving with that weak stuff.

to be fair, we dont know what denver is or isnt offering. these are all just rumors.

[DaleyBlind]

after zero games? impressive.

Yeah he is. And dont even attempt to argue Kidd-Gilchrist is better at those 3 skills.

of course not. how could I possibly do that after zero professional games?

He doesn't need to play an NBA game to show he is a way better ball handler/passer and scorer. Its clear too see Jackson has superior offensive skill than Kidd Gilchrist.

[Nuggets_Talk]

Ok, then the Suns dont get Kyrie. Thats how this works. Again, the Suns hold 0 card in any trade negotiations. Either give the Cavs their asking price or go into next season with the youngest team in the world trying to win 35 games.

Ok, then the Cavs don't trade Kyrie. That's how this works. Again, the Cavs hold 0 card in any trade negotiations. Disgruntled player that demanded a trade won't be good for the locker room. The Cavs lost leverage when it became public that Kyrie doesn't want to be there. Look at what Jimmy Butler and Paul George were traded for. That's very similar to what the Cavs will get.

Wrong, if you read my previous posts the Cavs hold all the cards. If they dont get the trade they like, they tell Kyrie to report to came and do their best to smooth things over. Hes under contract for 2 more years, the Cavs dont HAVE to do anything. As far as you and I are concerned, Kyrie will be a Cleveland Cavalier until 2020.

lol, you act like you are the decider of who "holds the cards" - you arent a GM. you dont know whats actually going on behind the scenes.

yes the cavs want to get as much back as possible.

yes other teams want kyrie for as little as possible.

[Nuggets_Talk]

Yeah he is. And dont even attempt to argue Kidd-Gilchrist is better at those 3 skills.

of course not. how could I possibly do that after zero professional games?

He doesn't need to play an NBA game to show he is a way better ball handler/passer and scorer. Its clear too see Jackson has superior offensive skill than Kidd Gilchrist.

agreed

[Mr Puddles]

Ok, then the Suns dont get Kyrie. Thats how this works. Again, the Suns hold 0 card in any trade negotiations. Either give the Cavs their asking price or go into next season with the youngest team in the world trying to win 35 games.

Ok, then the Cavs don't trade Kyrie. That's how this works. Again, the Cavs hold 0 card in any trade negotiations. Disgruntled player that demanded a trade won't be good for the locker room. The Cavs lost leverage when it became public that Kyrie doesn't want to be there. Look at what Jimmy Butler and Paul George were traded for. That's very similar to what the Cavs will get.

Wrong, if you read my previous posts the Cavs hold all the cards. If they dont get the trade they like, they tell Kyrie to report to came and do their best to smooth things over. Hes under contract for 2 more years, the Cavs dont HAVE to do anything. As far as you and I are concerned, Kyrie will be a Cleveland Cavalier until 2020.

What could possibly go wrong when ownership decides to bring back a player who publically demanded a trade during the offseason?

Watch on YouTube

[Christine-In-AZ]

Right, Kyrie is 25 years old and I keep hearing "this non-playoff team wont give up their recently acquired top 10 draft pick because they are rebuilding" which I find to be a crock. Acting like Kyrie is some 29-30 year old All-Star that somehow wouldnt fit in well with their 'rebuilding' roster of 22 year olds like the Nuggets/Suns currently have.

Granted the Nuggets are in much better shape because Jokic/Millsap but if you have the chance to pair Kyrie Irving, Nikola Jokic and Paul Millsap together for a team that hasnt been relevant since Carmelo was there in 2009-2010---you dont sit on your hands. Why sit around for 3 more years waiting for your young guys like Murray/Jackson to hopefully develop into the caliber player Kyrie is when you can just hit the fast-forward button and HAVE Kyrie right now.

Its like putting Murray or Jackson in a microwave and 2 mins later BOOM! out pops a Kyrie Irving, guaranteed. But some fans for whatever reason like to go the Crock Pot route hoping it looks like the picture in the recipe book after 8 hours.

Obviously for Denver, getting Irving makes a lot more sense than the Suns, because they have established players already. Getting Irving for the Suns, is only a luxury his owner would love to have if the price is low...

Well unfortunalty for the Suns they dont have a option of what the price will be. The Cavs will say the price and if its not something the owner of the Suns wants to do--they dont get Kyrie and hes off to another team or back on the Cavs roster until next year.

Something tells me though a a small market team who is desperate for the exposure, publicity and revenue Kyrie will give their franchise will cave at the end of the day and end up giving the Cavs their asking price.

Phoenix ..small market?

Phoenix is a much larger market than Cleveland...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_television_markets

I don't want Irving...bad fit, bad time. But if the Suns FO want him, it'll happen at their price...likely Bledsoe, Warren and Miami 18. Still, I'mnot convinced the Suns want Kyrie (doesnt make sense)...more likely they're in these discussions for Ntilikina and possibly Love.

[jbk1234]

Why is Harris and either Chandler or Faried attractive to any Cleveland fan? The team would be a wreck at PG.

Didn't say the Cavs want only those players, but that Denver is taking them off the table without even making a legit offer of anyone else they have.
These orgs are not getting Irving with that weak stuff.

to be fair, we dont know what denver is or isnt offering. these are all just rumors.

I'm amazed at how many people don't get this.

[collidingNeurons]

Obviously for Denver, getting Irving makes a lot more sense than the Suns, because they have established players already. Getting Irving for the Suns, is only a luxury his owner would love to have if the price is low...

Well unfortunalty for the Suns they dont have a option of what the price will be. The Cavs will say the price and if its not something the owner of the Suns wants to do--they dont get Kyrie and hes off to another team or back on the Cavs roster until next year.

Something tells me though a a small market team who is desperate for the exposure, publicity and revenue Kyrie will give their franchise will cave at the end of the day and end up giving the Cavs their asking price.

Phoenix ..small market?

Phoenix is a much larger market than Cleveland...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_television_markets

I don't want Irving...bad fit, bad time. But if the Suns FO want him, it'll happen at their price...likely Bledsoe, Warren and Miami 18. Still, I'mnot convinced the Suns want Kyrie (doesnt make sense)...more likely they're in these discussions for Ntilikina and possibly Love.

ironically i jut posted this very fact a few posts above and also Denver is also a larger market than Cleveland