Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

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Will Kyrie be traded by the beginning of the season?

Yes
304
60%
No
144
29%
Not suer
56
11%
 
Total votes: 504

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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1421 » by BasketballFan7 » Fri Aug 4, 2017 11:56 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
Jack Dempsey wrote:
BasketballFan7 wrote:Yep, the fit in Denver would be fantastic if they could pry the ball out of Kyrie's hands enough and into Jokic's. Murray and Chandler is a decent haul but, again, it leaves the Cavs in tatters at PG.


How about a 3 team trade with PHO?

CLE trades Kyrie Irving to for Eric Bledsoe, TJ Warren and Will Barton
DEN trades Darrell Arthur, Will Barton and Jamal Murray for Kyrie Irving
PHO trades Eric Bledsoe and TJ Warren for Jamal Murray and Darrell Arthur

I think Irving would be great on Denver's team but I think Murray has too much potential to include him in this trade. Irving wants to go FA in 2 years and who can blame him? It's his right. Murray is on a rookie contract and will be UFA at the end of that. He'll be with Denver for much longer than 2 years.


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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1422 » by NuggetsWY » Fri Aug 4, 2017 12:21 pm

BasketballFan7 wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
Jack Dempsey wrote:
How about a 3 team trade with PHO?

CLE trades Kyrie Irving to for Eric Bledsoe, TJ Warren and Will Barton
DEN trades Darrell Arthur, Will Barton and Jamal Murray for Kyrie Irving
PHO trades Eric Bledsoe and TJ Warren for Jamal Murray and Darrell Arthur

I think Irving would be great on Denver's team but I think Murray has too much potential to include him in this trade. Irving wants to go FA in 2 years and who can blame him? It's his right. Murray is on a rookie contract and will be UFA at the end of that. He'll be with Denver for much longer than 2 years.


Fans always overrate their young player's potential!

Nope, not always - usually, but not always. What fans always do is overstate their viewpoint. :lol:
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1423 » by Mulhollanddrive » Fri Aug 4, 2017 12:27 pm

If Murray, Chandler, Pick is the best deal idea mentioned then Phoenix low ball of Bledsoe, Warren, Pick still beats everything.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1424 » by BasketballFan7 » Fri Aug 4, 2017 12:35 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:If Murray, Chandler, Pick is the best deal idea mentioned then Phoenix low ball of Bledsoe, Warren, Pick still beats everything.


Yep, hard to disagree there.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1425 » by DowJones » Fri Aug 4, 2017 12:35 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:If Murray, Chandler, Pick is the best deal idea mentioned then Phoenix low ball of Bledsoe, Warren, Pick still beats everything.


What pick from PHX are you talking about? Unless it is a premium pick then the Denver offer is clearly better.

I think PHX fans have done a really good job of convincing themselves that Bledsoe is a legitimate premium piece. He has the value of 1 mid to late 1st. That's it.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1426 » by Stillwater » Fri Aug 4, 2017 1:01 pm

Nuggets_Talk wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Ok, then the Suns dont get Kyrie. Thats how this works.

exactly, other orgs fan bases that think the Cavs are going to get fleeced when he has 2 years left on his contract are not understanding the value of his contract.


the cavs may not get fleeced, but they wont get equal value. having one extra year over being an expiring isnt worth that much.

Phoenix & Denver will not get him without moving 1 of Jackson or Booker, or 1 of Murray or Harris so as far as I am concerned they can keep their unproven young players and we get a team with some cajones to pay what the asking price is and improve their roster over night.


what if no teams offer what the asking price is?

which btw, no one will. zero teams will end up paying what the cavs asking price is. they will negotiate and end up in the middle somewhere.

what is fair is fair, there are no steals to be had here,so all the poser orgs can just start talking 2018 draft by the all star break again.


who defines what "fair" is?

you cant just claim we want x, y and z. if the market doesnt offer it, then thats not whats hes worth. now if some team offers a superstar in return, then you are right - take it and run!

but you are looking at it through a homers eyes - this isnt how it works in the real world. take a look at what other star players have returned recently, especially those who have made it clear they arent coming back.

not a homer, the fact is the Cav's org valued KI way to much to accept anything less than what they want. They will either get it or they won't .
They have way to much riding on next season to not move him in most peoples outside view, but the homer reality which they are, will make him honor his contract if they cannot get better by trading him.
What the Cav's are asking for is not too much, might be more than anyone ultimately agrees to give up, but I am sure the Cavs asked for more than they expect to actually get anyway. If they get back a blue chip level player on his rookie contract a veteran pg and a draft pick , it really shouldn't come as much surprise for a player of KI's value so long as the team he is going to believes they can keep him there after he opts out for more $ in 19.If any of KI's 4 preferred destinations had those assets he would have been moved already. But as it is a 3rd or 4th team will likely be needed to ultimately finish & facilitate this process.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1427 » by BasketballFan7 » Fri Aug 4, 2017 1:18 pm

DowJones wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:If Murray, Chandler, Pick is the best deal idea mentioned then Phoenix low ball of Bledsoe, Warren, Pick still beats everything.


What pick from PHX are you talking about? Unless it is a premium pick then the Denver offer is clearly better.

I think PHX fans have done a really good job of convincing themselves that Bledsoe is a legitimate premium piece. He has the value of 1 mid to late 1st. That's it.


As long as LeBron is on the team, the Cavs aren't going to punt winning this season. Starting level point guards aren't walking around the streets unemployed.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1428 » by DowJones » Fri Aug 4, 2017 1:25 pm

BasketballFan7 wrote:
DowJones wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:If Murray, Chandler, Pick is the best deal idea mentioned then Phoenix low ball of Bledsoe, Warren, Pick still beats everything.


What pick from PHX are you talking about? Unless it is a premium pick then the Denver offer is clearly better.

I think PHX fans have done a really good job of convincing themselves that Bledsoe is a legitimate premium piece. He has the value of 1 mid to late 1st. That's it.


As long as LeBron is on the team, the Cavs aren't going to punt winning this season. Starting level point guards aren't walking around the streets unemployed.


Cavs aren't winning a thing by swapping Irving for Bledsoe though. Their best bet to win now if they still trade Irving is to trade him for premium assets and waiting until the trade deadline to trade those premium assets for a disgruntled star. Cleveland doesn't need to complete their team right now. They have to complete their team by the trade deadline.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1429 » by phraoh » Fri Aug 4, 2017 1:33 pm

Yes, but the Cavs do need to trade Kyrie prior to training camp, even if they are ultimately going to pass some of the assets on to another team after 12/15. I also think the Cavs want to keep at least 1 young asset for the future or for possible trades next year IF Lebron stays. Phoenix is NOT getting Kyrie with Warren in the package...he is young but not that good and is a free agent at the end of the year. I doubt Cavs mean that when wanting a young premium player under contract for a few years. Its either a draft pick from this past draft or last years, i.e. Jackson, Murrray, etc.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1430 » by mplsfonz23 » Fri Aug 4, 2017 1:39 pm

DowJones wrote:Cavs aren't winning a thing by swapping Irving for Bledsoe though. Their best bet to win now if they still trade Irving is to trade him for premium assets and waiting until the trade deadline to trade those premium assets for a disgruntled star. Cleveland doesn't need to complete their team right now. They have to complete their team by the trade deadline.


Maybe not right this minute, but IMO from what it looks like, those two are done. I don't think Irving sets foot in that building again until he's being booed in another uni.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1431 » by afarmenian » Fri Aug 4, 2017 1:43 pm

Its amazing, I am not even that big of a Kyrie fan but some these fans. "well we cant trade Murray for Kyrie" and "were not trading Warren or Josh Jackson for Kyrie" Let me say if the GMs actually have that attitude you can bet they won't be trading Kyrie anytime soon.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1432 » by Cavaliers2 » Fri Aug 4, 2017 1:44 pm

BasketballFan7 wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:If Murray, Chandler, Pick is the best deal idea mentioned then Phoenix low ball of Bledsoe, Warren, Pick still beats everything.


Yep, hard to disagree there.

Hmm idk I think it would depend on the pick being offered by each team. I don't think warren offers much to the cavs that nuggets offer might be better
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1433 » by JHFVF07 » Fri Aug 4, 2017 2:06 pm

Well, I said some pages ago that it doesnt makes sense to Phoenix offer the entire farm for Kyrie. But, considering how high most of Denver fans are on Jokic, they should be very happy with a potential package from Denver includind Murray, Harris and picks.
Denver looks at Jokic as the best young center in the league, an already top15 player. They already have Milsap, Kyrie would be the perfect compliment to their team.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1434 » by NaturalBuns » Fri Aug 4, 2017 2:23 pm

afarmenian wrote:Its amazing, I am not even that big of a Kyrie fan but some these fans. "well we cant trade Murray for Kyrie" and "were not trading Warren or Josh Jackson for Kyrie" Let me say if the GMs actually have that attitude you can bet they won't be trading Kyrie anytime soon.


They can though. Those type of players are locked into contracts for up to like 7-9 years. Kyrie is two years and went public saying he's not committing to anyone who trades for him.

Clevland has no leverage. In a fantasy world they can say we'll will just keep kyrie. In reality they know that's not a option
oldscho0led wrote:Baseball is all about momentum. Pirates will carry their winning ways and beat Giants in the Wildcard.

A's over Royals. Lester and experience will prove that he's worth the trade.

Tigers winning it all. Tigers are, imo, peaking at the right time.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1435 » by afarmenian » Fri Aug 4, 2017 2:28 pm

NaturalBuns wrote:
afarmenian wrote:Its amazing, I am not even that big of a Kyrie fan but some these fans. "well we cant trade Murray for Kyrie" and "were not trading Warren or Josh Jackson for Kyrie" Let me say if the GMs actually have that attitude you can bet they won't be trading Kyrie anytime soon.


They can though. Those type of players are locked into contracts for up to like 7-9 years. Kyrie is two years and went public saying he's not committing to anyone who trades for him.

Clevland has no leverage. In a fantasy world they can say we'll will just keep kyrie. In reality they know that's not a option



No leverage? Ridiculous. It doesn't matter if they can't keep him. If there are 6 teams all bidding then they are also bidding against each other. Thats the Cavs leverage. Granted they can lock up youngsters longer than Kyrie (not for 7-9 years..what?) but they are all unknowns so yeah the cavs do not have to trade Kyrie for trash.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1436 » by NaturalBuns » Fri Aug 4, 2017 2:33 pm

yeah 4yr rookie scale plus RFA deal. 7-9yrs.


Sure and that's what the cavs will do let the teams bid for him nobody is going to sell the farm though. If kyrie promised a extension everything would be different he'd probably be traded by now
oldscho0led wrote:Baseball is all about momentum. Pirates will carry their winning ways and beat Giants in the Wildcard.

A's over Royals. Lester and experience will prove that he's worth the trade.

Tigers winning it all. Tigers are, imo, peaking at the right time.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1437 » by Jack Dempsey » Fri Aug 4, 2017 2:41 pm

Yeah but teams were bidding against each other for Cousins, George or Butler as well and look what they were traded for. Cleveland HAS to trade Irving in the next couple of weeks and everybody knows it which is why teams are lowballing them. Nobody's going to break the bank for a player that has to be traded.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1438 » by 12footrim » Fri Aug 4, 2017 2:48 pm

DowJones wrote:
BasketballFan7 wrote:
DowJones wrote:
What pick from PHX are you talking about? Unless it is a premium pick then the Denver offer is clearly better.

I think PHX fans have done a really good job of convincing themselves that Bledsoe is a legitimate premium piece. He has the value of 1 mid to late 1st. That's it.


As long as LeBron is on the team, the Cavs aren't going to punt winning this season. Starting level point guards aren't walking around the streets unemployed.


Cavs aren't winning a thing by swapping Irving for Bledsoe though. Their best bet to win now if they still trade Irving is to trade him for premium assets and waiting until the trade deadline to trade those premium assets for a disgruntled star. Cleveland doesn't need to complete their team right now. They have to complete their team by the trade deadline.



2 things.

#1 another trip to the finals isn't insignificant. I actually think Bledsoe makes them a little better or at least pretty comparable. He's also on a very reasonable 2 year deal. That is value and the finals makes the franchise money.

#2 Bledsoe is a friend of Lebron and if it goes reasonably well that helps out keeping him which is looking more grim by the day. If you trade for someone like Jamal Murray he's is gone for sure.


Bledsoe is very fair, pair him with Chriss or TJ Warren and a pick and I think that's fair and as you get and provides present and future value and honestly the time is now. They have almost no chance to go to a finals for 5 or 10 years if they don't this year or if Lebron leaves. Take your shot now, never know who gets injuried, if you get there you have a chance.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1439 » by 12footrim » Fri Aug 4, 2017 2:53 pm

Jack Dempsey wrote:Yeah but teams were bidding against each other for Cousins, George or Butler as well and look what they were traded for. Cleveland HAS to trade Irving in the next couple of weeks and everybody knows it which is why teams are lowballing them. Nobody's going to break the bank for a player that has to be traded.


The difference in PG and Cousins is he's on a two year deal (the Butler trade was just stupid people being stupid).

The Cavs very well could make Kyrie play this year. Would he be happy, probably not but who cares. You take that over getting nothing back.

If Lebron leaves like it appears will happen anyway then Kyrie has his own team and a pretty decent one with Love. Fences could be attempted to be mended at that point. If it's still a problem then you trade him for young pieces and fully start over but at least you have full clarity on your situation and don't have to try to appease Lebron like you do now.

There is much less need to trade him than the others.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1440 » by DowJones » Fri Aug 4, 2017 3:07 pm

12footrim wrote:
DowJones wrote:
BasketballFan7 wrote:
As long as LeBron is on the team, the Cavs aren't going to punt winning this season. Starting level point guards aren't walking around the streets unemployed.


Cavs aren't winning a thing by swapping Irving for Bledsoe though. Their best bet to win now if they still trade Irving is to trade him for premium assets and waiting until the trade deadline to trade those premium assets for a disgruntled star. Cleveland doesn't need to complete their team right now. They have to complete their team by the trade deadline.



2 things.

#1 another trip to the finals isn't insignificant. I actually think Bledsoe makes them a little better or at least pretty comparable. He's also on a very reasonable 2 year deal. That is value and the finals makes the franchise money.

#2 Bledsoe is a friend of Lebron and if it goes reasonably well that helps out keeping him which is looking more grim by the day. If you trade for someone like Jamal Murray he's is gone for sure.


Bledsoe is very fair, pair him with Chriss or TJ Warren and a pick and I think that's fair and as you get and provides present and future value and honestly the time is now. They have almost no chance to go to a finals for 5 or 10 years if they don't this year or if Lebron leaves. Take your shot now, never know who gets injuried, if you get there you have a chance.


1. Cavs can get to the Finals with or without Bledsoe. They almost certainly get to the Finals if they keep Kyrie.

2. If Cleveland thought bringing in LeBron's buddies would keep him in Cleveland beyond 2018 then Carmelo would have been here by now. The idea that Eric Bledsoe would keep LeBron in Cleveland is comical.

What pick are we talking about because I don't view a pick in the 15-25 range and Chriss as good long-term value.

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