Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

[Kerrsed]

I can see Miami trading Dragic, Winslow, tj for kyrie, Shumpert.

Or if pelicans don't do too well I can see Kyrie, Shumpert and TT being traded for jrue and cousins.

There are options if Cavs hold Kyrie for a little while

But that doesnt fit Clevelands "requirements".

They stated a win now piece (Dragic), a young player (Winslow), and a draft pick (?????).

If Cleveland fans wont take Bender or Chriss, i dont see why they would be open to Winslow. Add to that Miami doesnt have a draft pick to spare. Hell, even if they did, the fans wouldnt want that, we should know as we have it and include it in our trade, but they keep telling us "NO, we wont take anything less than the PHX 1st".

So its safe to say that you can scratch Miami off the list.

Also, Amico stated this morning that talks with the HEAT went nowhere. Riley isnt dumb enough to give into such a high trade demand that would leave them in a worse shape.

[Stillwater]

The opinion not just in Cleveland is that without Jackson, Phoenix will be outbid & cannot acquire Irving. The only place that is not the opinion is in Phoenix or on other orgs trying to devalue Irving returns.It changes nothing that Phoenix won't give up Jackson other than 1 less team with any legitimate shot at getting KI.
So, if they are not moving Jackson,so be it. on to the next bidder.
Bender showed signs of being a likely bust, Chriss although likely a good nba pro does not show signs of being there for awhile. TJ Warren is not even a filler option for the Cavs.

Can you name a better, more realistic package from any team than Bledsoe, Warren, Bender?

I would take any of these over that garbage offer all of which also include an unprotected from the other team https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6931915,

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6931918,

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6925685,

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6931927,

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6926745,

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6920231,

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6931956,

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6931586,

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6931964

[Takingbaconback]

lol are you serious? unprotected first from every team in each of those trades. I thought we were past this, Cavs aren't going to get that type of a haul.

[phraoh]

Its funny....all the Phoenix fans keep saying its fine with us if we don't get Kyrie....we are still going to not make the playoffs. Let's just stay on our course. Again, we are talking about a 25 year old all star...not a 30 year old all star....he still fits your age time line, and offers playoff experience to help all your players who have never been there. But he could bolt in 2 years...yeah...Warren could bolt next year...so what? Everyone can bolt or demand a trade.

Bottom line is Phoenix keeps being mentioned....they are HUGELY interested in Kyrie else there wouldn't be all this talk. They aren't getting Kyrie with a lousy Miami draft pick, Bledsoe, and Bender who has shown absolutely nothing. I wish both teams would just do an hour conference call and work it out, since they both obviously want this trade to happen.

Pretty simple give Phoenix 2 choices (one with Jackson and one without), and if they aren't willing to do one of them, move on. Go to next choice and see what can work. Its frustrating to watch as a fan of either team, this negotiating in public. No sense telling us what you would offer if you have already told Cleveland and they said no way.

[Poohdini1]

Jackson is a nice prospect but I get very strong MKG vibes from him. If that jumper doesn't come along the Suns will be kicking themselves in 2-3 years for not pulling the trigger.

[Takingbaconback]

Its funny....all the Phoenix fans keep saying its fine with us if we don't get Kyrie....we are still going to not make the playoffs. Let's just stay on our course. Again, we are talking about a 25 year old all star...not a 30 year old all star....he still fits your age time line, and offers playoff experience to help all your players who have never been there. But he could bolt in 2 years...yeah...Warren could bolt next year...so what? Everyone can bolt or demand a trade.

Bottom line is Phoenix keeps being mentioned....they are HUGELY interested in Kyrie else there wouldn't be all this talk. They aren't getting Kyrie with a lousy Miami draft pick, Bledsoe, and Bender who has shown absolutely nothing. I wish both teams would just do an hour conference call and work it out, since they both obviously want this trade to happen.

Pretty simple give Phoenix 2 choices (one with Jackson and one without), and if they aren't willing to do one of them, move on. Go to next choice and see what can work. Its frustrating to watch as a fan of either team, this negotiating in public. No sense telling us what you would offer if you have already told Cleveland and they said no way.

No point in burning a bridge, Suns are very good trading partners for Irving and as unlikely as it is, Suns might change their mind about Jackson. Always gotta keep options open especially with how few teams are capable and willing to give Cavs what they want. If both teams flat out say they don't want to deal and that gets reported, Cavs would be left in a very precarious situation.

[phraoh]

[quote="Kerrsed"][quote="zimpy27"]I can see Miami trading Dragic, Winslow, tj for kyrie, Shumpert.

Or if pelicans don't do too well I can see Kyrie, Shumpert and TT being traded for jrue and cousins.

There are options if Cavs hold Kyrie for a little while[/quote]

But that doesnt fit Clevelands "requirements".

They stated a win now piece (Dragic), a young player (Winslow), and a draft pick (?????).

If Cleveland fans wont take Bender or Chriss, i dont see why they would be open to Winslow. Add to that Miami doesnt have a draft pick to spare. Hell, even if they did, the fans wouldnt want that, we should know as we have it and include it in our trade, but they keep telling us "NO, we wont take anything less than the PHX 1st".

So its safe to say that you can scratch Miami off the list.

Also, Amico stated this morning that talks with the HEAT went nowhere. Riley isnt dumb enough to give into such a high trade demand that would leave them in a worse shape.[/quote]

Cavs have no interest in Miami's pieces (Dragic is older and probably worse than Bledsoe. Winslow has shown nothing, and what draft pick does Miami have...they gave 18 to Phoenix and 21. Dragic is a poor defender as well....at least with Bledsoe you have a plus defender or close to it. Finally, there is no way that Miami and Cleveland will do a trade with each other unless one is shafting the other.

[Kerrsed]

Bottom line is Phoenix keeps being mentioned....they are HUGELY interested in Kyrie else there wouldn't be all this talk. They aren't getting Kyrie with a lousy Miami draft pick, Bledsoe, and Bender who has shown absolutely nothing. I wish both teams would just do an hour conference call and work it out, since they both obviously want this trade to happen.

But Jackson hasnt shown anything either.

[phraoh]

[quote="clyde21"][tweet]893507288211836930[/tweet][/quote]

And Cavs are willing to trade Shumpert and Frye for Jackson and Criss.

[Cycloneon]

I hope Phoenix isn't really trying to trade Bledsoe, (maybe Jackson, and a 1st rd draft pick for a 2 year rental(well more of a risk since he could resign, who knows) ... All that rebuild for nothing lol

[gaspar]

Bottom line is Phoenix keeps being mentioned....they are HUGELY interested in Kyrie else there wouldn't be all this talk. They aren't getting Kyrie with a lousy Miami draft pick, Bledsoe, and Bender who has shown absolutely nothing. I wish both teams would just do an hour conference call and work it out, since they both obviously want this trade to happen.

But Jackson hasnt shown anything either.

And Jackson is 9 months older than Bender.

[phraoh]

[quote="Kerrsed"][quote="phraoh"]
Bottom line is Phoenix keeps being mentioned....they are HUGELY interested in Kyrie else there wouldn't be all this talk. They aren't getting Kyrie with a lousy Miami draft pick, Bledsoe, [b]and Bender who has shown absolutely nothing.[/b] I wish both teams would just do an hour conference call and work it out, since they both obviously want this trade to happen.[/quote]

But Jackson hasnt shown anything either. [/quote]

You are right he hasn't so you better trade him before he shows he isn't as good as you thought !! No really, he fits with what the Cavs are looking for...Bender doesn't...plus Bender has shown nothing for a year. Jackson at least hasn't played yet, so he can't be penalized for it !! Jackson has shown the potential to be an all around player at a position that the Cavs need, since they have NEVER had a good backup for Lebron, and covers them if Lebron leaves. It makes sense why Cavs would insist on Jackson and why Bender isn't a fit, who is a power forward who again hasn't shown anything.

[Kerrsed]

Bottom line is Phoenix keeps being mentioned....they are HUGELY interested in Kyrie else there wouldn't be all this talk. They aren't getting Kyrie with a lousy Miami draft pick, Bledsoe, and Bender who has shown absolutely nothing. I wish both teams would just do an hour conference call and work it out, since they both obviously want this trade to happen.

But Jackson hasnt shown anything either.

You are right he hasn't so you better trade him before he shows he isn't as good as you thought !! No really, he fits with what the Cavs are looking for...Bender doesn't...plus Bender has shown nothing for a year. Jackson at least hasn't played yet, so he can't be penalized for it !! Jackson has shown the potential to be an all around player at a position that the Cavs need, since they have NEVER had a good backup for Lebron, and covers them if Lebron leaves. It makes sense why Cavs would insist on Jackson and why Bender isn't a fit, who is a power forward who again hasn't shown anything.

OK, sure.

[clyde21]

Read on Twitter

And Cavs are willing to trade Shumpert and Frye for Jackson and Criss.

Jimmy Butler, who's a better player than Irving and on a similar length contract, got traded for Zach LaVine, Kriss Dunn and a pick swap. What kind of return are you expecting for Kyrie?

Oh, and Butler didn't coerce the Bulls into trading him.

[phraoh]

Just because Chicago's Front Office Sucks and they didn't want to trade Butler in their conference and made a bad trade doesn't mean that the Cavs have to follow suit. What I am expecting for Kyrie is Bledsoe (or similar from another team), Jackson (or similar from another team) and Miami's first round pick or Phoenix's in 19 with 1-10 protection. Not too much different than what Suns were willing to offer...they both were the 4th pick in their respective drafts...its just that Benders rep went down. Cavs though need a player like Jackson (all around player) at the SF small PF big guard position and not a PF like Bender...he isn't even what they are looking for.

[collidingNeurons]

Jackson is a nice prospect but I get very strong MKG vibes from him. If that jumper doesn't come along the Suns will be kicking themselves in 2-3 years for not pulling the trigger.

that works both ways, if Jackson turns out to be great or Bender reaches his potential or they end up giving up one of the top 5 guys in the next two drafts and Kyrie doesn't fit and just marginally improves the Suns for the next two years you dont think they will have regrets for making this trade? Both are risks but this i precisely why Cleveland wants those assets because they see it as a potential big pay off too

[Poohdini1]

Jackson is a nice prospect but I get very strong MKG vibes from him. If that jumper doesn't come along the Suns will be kicking themselves in 2-3 years for not pulling the trigger.

that works both ways, if Jackson turn out to be great or Bender reaches his potential or they end up giving up one of the top 5 guy in the next two drafts and Kyrie doesn't fit and just marginally improves the Suns for the next two years you dont think they will have regrets for making this trade? Both are risks but this i precisely why Cleveland want those assets because they see it a a potential big pay off too

Well I think worst case for Jackson isn't as big a blow to Cleveland as it would be to Phoenix, at least short term. They desperately need an elite, athletic, versatile defender to better compete with GS.

I really don't know much about Bender. He's young, but didn't seem to show much as a rookie. What do most project his ceiling to be?

[mg]

Read on Twitter

And Cavs are willing to trade Shumpert and Frye for Jackson and Criss.

Jimmy Butler, who's a better player than Irving and on a similar length contract, got traded for Zach LaVine, Kriss Dunn and a pick swap. What kind of return are you expecting for Kyrie?

Oh, and Butler didn't coerce the Bulls into trading him.

I'm not so sure Butler is a better player than Kyrie.
What I do know for a fact is that Kyrie plays the more difficult position and that Kyrie is also nearly 3 years younger than Butler.

[clyde21]

And Cavs are willing to trade Shumpert and Frye for Jackson and Criss.

Jimmy Butler, who's a better player than Irving and on a similar length contract, got traded for Zach LaVine, Kriss Dunn and a pick swap. What kind of return are you expecting for Kyrie?

Oh, and Butler didn't coerce the Bulls into trading him.

I'm not so sure Butler is a better player than Kyrie.
What I do know for a fact is that Kyrie plays the more difficult position and that Kyrie is also nearly 3 years younger than Butler.

Two years older, but he's better by almost every measure other than pure scoring. Two way wing averaging 24ppg makes him a hotter commodity.

If I'm the Suns, the Butler trade is the framework I'm basing my deal on.

[collidingNeurons]

in regard to Bender....Comparisons never really work and im not about to call him anything close to any current of past all star, we havent seen enough of him yet. But he was injured much of last year and the youngest player in the league. But he is 7'1'' with ball skills and touted to have potential as a defender and the ability to stretch the floor, but it's too early to call a barely 19 year old a bust