Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

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Will Kyrie be traded by the beginning of the season?

Yes
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60%
No
144
29%
Not suer
56
11%
 
Total votes: 504

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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1481 » by Jack Dempsey » Fri Aug 4, 2017 7:54 pm

phraoh wrote:Bottom line is Phoenix keeps being mentioned....they are HUGELY interested in Kyrie else there wouldn't be all this talk. They aren't getting Kyrie with a lousy Miami draft pick, Bledsoe, and Bender who has shown absolutely nothing. I wish both teams would just do an hour conference call and work it out, since they both obviously want this trade to happen.

Actually, it seems to me that CLE is more desperate to get a package around Bledsoe in return than PHO is to get their Superstar in Kyrie. Even if a trade happens, I'm not so sure Kyrie ends up in Arizona. I wouldn't be surprised if a 3rd team is involved.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1482 » by mademan » Fri Aug 4, 2017 8:01 pm

clyde21 wrote:
mg wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Jimmy Butler, who's a better player than Irving and on a similar length contract, got traded for Zach LaVine, Kriss Dunn and a pick swap. What kind of return are you expecting for Kyrie?

Oh, and Butler didn't coerce the Bulls into trading him.


I'm not so sure Butler is a better player than Kyrie.
What I do know for a fact is that Kyrie plays the more difficult position and that Kyrie is also nearly 3 years younger than Butler.


Two years older, but he's better by almost every measure other than pure scoring. Two way wing averaging 24ppg makes him a hotter commodity.

If I'm the Suns, the Butler trade is the framework I'm basing my deal on.


Chicago and Indiana made bad trades. No reason Cleveland should look at that and say " what the heck, let's do it too". Especially when the stakes are higher for them
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1483 » by clyde21 » Fri Aug 4, 2017 8:03 pm

mademan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
mg wrote:
I'm not so sure Butler is a better player than Kyrie.
What I do know for a fact is that Kyrie plays the more difficult position and that Kyrie is also nearly 3 years younger than Butler.


Two years older, but he's better by almost every measure other than pure scoring. Two way wing averaging 24ppg makes him a hotter commodity.

If I'm the Suns, the Butler trade is the framework I'm basing my deal on.


Chicago and Indiana made bad trades. No reason Cleveland should look at that and say " what the heck, let's do it too". Especially when the stakes are higher for them


And If a car similar to the model you're trying to buy sold for 20K, do you still want to purchase yours for 30?

Why should Kyrie garner a better return than Butler?
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1484 » by mademan » Fri Aug 4, 2017 8:09 pm

clyde21 wrote:
mademan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Two years older, but he's better by almost every measure other than pure scoring. Two way wing averaging 24ppg makes him a hotter commodity.

If I'm the Suns, the Butler trade is the framework I'm basing my deal on.


Chicago and Indiana made bad trades. No reason Cleveland should look at that and say " what the heck, let's do it too". Especially when the stakes are higher for them


And If a car similar to the model you're trying to buy sold for 20K, do you still want to purchase yours for 30?

Why should Kyrie garner a better return than Butler?


Markets aren't about fairness, and the similarities between the two situations isn't so similar. Neither the Bulls or pacers were contending for titles, the cavs are. Taking back a bad deal a year from now, if Lebron leaves, is much better than taking back a mediocre deal now. The cavs, according to the media and Dan Gilbert's personality, are willing to start the season with kyrie. They have no reason to settle for Bledsoe and bender and every reason to reject it.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1485 » by clyde21 » Fri Aug 4, 2017 8:12 pm

mademan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
mademan wrote:
Chicago and Indiana made bad trades. No reason Cleveland should look at that and say " what the heck, let's do it too". Especially when the stakes are higher for them


And If a car similar to the model you're trying to buy sold for 20K, do you still want to purchase yours for 30?

Why should Kyrie garner a better return than Butler?


Markets aren't about fairness, and the similarities between the two situations isn't so similar. Neither the Bulls or pacers were contending for titles, the cavs are. Taking back a bad deal a year from now, if Lebron leaves, is much better than taking back a mediocre deal now. The cavs, according to the media and Dan Gilbert's personality, are willing to start the season with kyrie. They have no reason to settle for Bledsoe and bender and every reason to reject it.


So your answer to why the Suns should give up more than the Wolves is because the CAVS are title contenders? What does that have to do with the Suns?

And you still haven't answered my question. Why should Kyrie garner a higher return than Butler? What's your basis for this?
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1486 » by tundraknight » Fri Aug 4, 2017 8:13 pm

Patience Is a Virtue: 5 Players Cavs Can Target by
Waiting to Trade Kyrie Irving.

The Cleveland Cavaliers don't have to trade Kyrie Irving on his time or to his preferred destinations.

And, not to extinguish any fire takes out there, but they don't need to move him at all.

While this seems likely to end with Irving getting his wish via a ticket out of LeBron James country, the Cavs can't forget they're in control. They have a 25-year-old All-Star to sell on the trade market. That's still an advantageous position, even if it's not the one they would have picked and not as strong as it would have been had the trade request never leaked.

Cleveland has rightfully set a high price—"a veteran starter, a blue chipper on a rookie contract and a first-round pick," according to Cleveland.com's Joe Vardon. For now, the market doesn't appear willing to meet that. While approximately 20 teams have talked with the Cavs, "far fewer" have put an offer on the table, according to ESPN.com's Adrian Wojnarowski.

All that means for Cleveland is the time isn't right to pull the trigger. If the Cavs are patient—and open to enduring some awkward training-camp moments—they can hold out for better offers.

Delaying any decision puts more players potentially in play. Those who inked new deals this summer can't be moved before December, so that's one incentive to wait. Another is the possibility of clubs struggling out of the gate and redirecting their rosters by moving current centerpieces.

If the Cavs play the waiting game correctly, they could put these five guys in their crosshairs.


DeMarcus Cousins, C, New Orleans Pelicans

David Zalubowski/Associated Press
Credit the New Orleans Pelicans for trying. In need of a shake-up around franchise face Anthony Davis, they're zagging away from an Association-wide zig toward small ball by pairing the Brow with bully-ball big man DeMarcus Cousins.

Their combined talent level is staggering, and the early returns late last season were positive. Even though New Orleans dropped 10 of the 17 games the pair played together, it outscored opponents by 2.8 points per 100 possessions with those two on the floor.

But would anyone be shocked if this group stumbled out of the gate? The offense was a disaster last season (26th in efficiency), and spacing was an issue before the signing of Rajon Rondo. Plus, as good as these two bigs are, there are reasons lineups around the league continue to shrink.

"The game is getting smaller and smaller," an advanced scout told The Vertical's Chris Mannix. "Every coach in the league values spacing. Front lines like that just don't work."

If the Pelicans hit an early snag, they could rush Cousins to the trade block. His contract expires at season's end, so New Orleans is operating without the luxury of time. If the organization could grab a younger All-Star on a longer deal, it probably wouldn't hesitate to pounce.

Cousins isn't the cleanest fit in Cleveland, but he might be the best player available in any Irving deal. If the Cavs buy Cousins' combination of size (6'11", 270 lbs), mobility and skill as the wrecking ball to the Golden State Warriors' dominance—he blitzed them for 32 points, 12 rebounds and eight assists in one outing last season—they could grab him and figure out how to assemble the rest of the frontcourt later.


Marc Gasol, C, Memphis Grizzlies

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The Memphis Grizzlies haven't moved completely out of the grit-and-grind era, but they have started writing its final chapter. Zach Randolph and Vince Carter already found new homes in free agency, and Tony Allen is waiting for the right offer.

Memphis needed to modernize—it has one playoff series win in four years—but could soon discover it hasn't gone far enough. The Grizzlies are losing talent while the Western Conference is taking up arms around them. That's a precarious position for anyone, but especially troubling for a team built around a 32-year-old and 29-year-old.

That's why the future of the elder statesman, Marc Gasol, is "worth keeping an eye on," as two league executives told Mannix. And if a Gasol deal would spur trade talks regarding Mike Conley, then there would be an immediate opening for Irving as both a lead guard and an organizational leader.

Gasol would provide a new way for Cleveland to approach the annual, inevitable clash with Golden State. He'd be the best traditional center LeBron ever suited up alongside, sort of a souped-up Zydrunas Ilgauskas with superior scoring range, playmaking and defensive anchoring.

Gasol also has a history of bothering—and occasionally beating—the Warriors. He went 2-1 against them last season, averaging 21.0 points on 50 percent shooting, 6.5 rebounds and 4.5 assists in the victories. And when the Grizzlies took the Warriors to six games in the 2015 conference semis, Gasol was their leading scorer (19.2), rebounder (11.2) and shot-blocker (1.2).

Cleveland didn't defend at anywhere near a championship level last season (22nd in efficiency). Gasol could cover up a lot of the mistakes.


Josh Jackson, SF, Phoenix Suns

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The Phoenix Suns are a quietly compelling landing spot for Irving.

They have their own star point guard to send back in Eric Bledsoe, who is a Rich Paul client just like LeBron. (If star seems like an oversell for Bledsoe, consider he's one of only six players to average at least 20 points, six assists and four rebounds each of the last two seasons.) They have two future firsts coming over from the Miami Heat, one or both of which could be used to sweeten the pot.

And, in rookie Josh Jackson, Phoenix might have the long, athletic defender Cleveland desperately needs on the wing. His 2.2 defensive win shares as a college freshman were as many as Draymond Green produced as a college junior. The 6'8" swingman needs to develop as a shooter, but the Cavs could work around that with the league's third-most efficient attack.

Of course, Jackson's potential is also the reason this deal isn't already done.

"Josh Jackson could be the swing piece after Phoenix and Cleveland indeed talked around the draft about a swap involving the No. 4 pick, but the Suns were thrilled Jackson landed there," ESPN.com's Zach Lowe wrote. "If the Suns relent on Jackson, Cleveland and Phoenix might be able to work a simple two-team deal."

What would motivate Phoenix to move? Maybe the chance to capture its first taste of post-Steve Nash relevance.

The Suns have some interesting young pieces on the roster, but those players would need to defy the odds to become what Irving already is. For as long as they've coveted a star, the 25-year-old Irving could be too tempted to pass up the longer he goes unclaimed.


Damian Lillard, PG, Portland Trail Blazers

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Irving and Damian Lillard should see a lot of themselves in the other.

Both are score-first 6'3" point guards. Both have multiple All-Star selections on their resumes and multiple postseason wins under their belts. Both are slippery off the bounce and fiery from three.

Watching the other might feel like staring into a mirror. Maybe that's why it's so easy for each to put himself in his peer's shoes.

Irving is reportedly envious of the prominent position Lillard occupies atop the Portland Trail Blazers organization, according to ESPN's Ramona Shelburne, Dave McMenamin and Brian Windhorst. Lillard, meanwhile, sounds jealous of Irving's situation in Cleveland and, more importantly, alongside LeBron.

"Who wouldn't want to go to the Finals every year," Lillard said in an interview with Sports Illustrated. "I think they've been to the Finals the last three years, so I would love to do that."

Maybe the basketball gods can let each of these players experience what the other has.

Irving is younger and cheaper than Lillard, 27, which could help Portland clear some of its salary-cap congestion. Conversely, the fact Lillard's contract runs two years longer may appeal to Cleveland, which might see him as a recruiting tool to keep LeBron around or a centerpiece if James bolts. Lillard is also a close enough Kyrie clone that his acquisition would cause the least amount of adjustments.


Andrew Wiggins, SF, Minnesota Timberwolves

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If the Cavs really want a blue-chip prospect, why not go get the one they traded away three years back?

Almost from the second Cleveland moved Andrew Wiggins to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Kevin Love, the Cavs have been in need of a long, athletic wing defender. It's the type of player Wiggins should be—and occasionally is—and his offensive ceiling rises every season.

The Wolves are ready to compete in the Western Conference, having added Jimmy Butler, Jeff Teague, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford this summer. But there are spacing concerns when slotting Wiggins (a career 32.9 percent three-point shooter) alongside Butler (33.7), not to mention questions of whether Teague can quarterback an elite club.

None of that seems to worry Minnesota. Owner Glen Taylor told Sid Hartman of the Minneapolis Star Tribune that the team has started negotiations with Wiggins on a five-year max extension. Following that same line of thought, 1500 ESPN's Darren Wolfson reports the Wolves aren't offering Wiggins for Irving.

Time could soften those stances, though.

Wiggins can justify requesting a max deal, but there are enough holes in his game to think twice about meeting that demand. He had the second-worst rebounding percentage among qualified players 6'8" or taller (6.3), the lowest assist percentage among players with a 28-plus usage percentage (10.6) and the ninth-worst defensive real plus-minus across the league (minus-3.16, per ESPN.com).

If Minnesota rethinks a max-money commitment, it could also reconsider swapping Wiggins for Irving. Since Teague can't be moved before Dec. 15, there is ample time to think this transaction through.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1487 » by mademan » Fri Aug 4, 2017 8:15 pm

clyde21 wrote:
mademan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
And If a car similar to the model you're trying to buy sold for 20K, do you still want to purchase yours for 30?

Why should Kyrie garner a better return than Butler?


Markets aren't about fairness, and the similarities between the two situations isn't so similar. Neither the Bulls or pacers were contending for titles, the cavs are. Taking back a bad deal a year from now, if Lebron leaves, is much better than taking back a mediocre deal now. The cavs, according to the media and Dan Gilbert's personality, are willing to start the season with kyrie. They have no reason to settle for Bledsoe and bender and every reason to reject it.


So your answer to why the Suns should give up more than the Wolves is because the CAVS are title contenders? What does that have to do with the Suns?

And you still haven't answered my question. Why should Kyrie garner a higher return than Butler? What's your basis for this?


why did love go for more before butler? Because situations and expectations are different. Suns don't have to offer more than butler got, cavs don't have to trade for less than they think kyries worth.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1488 » by clyde21 » Fri Aug 4, 2017 8:27 pm

mademan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
mademan wrote:
Markets aren't about fairness, and the similarities between the two situations isn't so similar. Neither the Bulls or pacers were contending for titles, the cavs are. Taking back a bad deal a year from now, if Lebron leaves, is much better than taking back a mediocre deal now. The cavs, according to the media and Dan Gilbert's personality, are willing to start the season with kyrie. They have no reason to settle for Bledsoe and bender and every reason to reject it.


So your answer to why the Suns should give up more than the Wolves is because the CAVS are title contenders? What does that have to do with the Suns?

And you still haven't answered my question. Why should Kyrie garner a higher return than Butler? What's your basis for this?


why did love go for more before butler? Because situations and expectations are different. Suns don't have to offer more than butler got, cavs don't have to trade for less than they think kyries worth.


Kevin Love was viewed as a top 5 or 7 player in the entire league back then, and that transaction is not referenceable for various reasons--a different NBA, the LeBron James coming back factor, Kevin Love's status, etc.

This is the third time you ignore my question. Why should Kyrie demand more than Butler?
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1489 » by Benedict_Boozer » Fri Aug 4, 2017 8:31 pm

The Cavs new GM will never make a bad or only "OK" deal, he knows this will basically determine his reputation and career. And any deal will surely at least have to be run by Lebron's people for blessing given a bad deal guarantees his exit.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1490 » by mademan » Fri Aug 4, 2017 8:32 pm

clyde21 wrote:
mademan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
So your answer to why the Suns should give up more than the Wolves is because the CAVS are title contenders? What does that have to do with the Suns?

And you still haven't answered my question. Why should Kyrie garner a higher return than Butler? What's your basis for this?


why did love go for more before butler? Because situations and expectations are different. Suns don't have to offer more than butler got, cavs don't have to trade for less than they think kyries worth.


Kevin Love was viewed as a top 5 or 7 player in the entire league back then, and that transaction is not referenceable for various reasons--a different NBA, the LeBron James coming back factor, Kevin Love's status, etc.

This is the third time you ignore my question. Why should Kyrie demand more than Butler?


LMAO. I just answered your question. SItuation/circumstance/expectation. Cleveland will in no way take back a Butler package because that would knock them out of contention which will lead to Lebron leaving. If Cleveland will not, under any circumstance, take back a Butler/PG trade framework, that is enough to make PHX offer more, IF they want Kyrie.

Why would Cleveland ever settle for such a low offer for Kyrie? That just compounds the loss of KI with the loss of Lebron
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1491 » by clyde21 » Fri Aug 4, 2017 8:38 pm

mademan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
mademan wrote:
why did love go for more before butler? Because situations and expectations are different. Suns don't have to offer more than butler got, cavs don't have to trade for less than they think kyries worth.


Kevin Love was viewed as a top 5 or 7 player in the entire league back then, and that transaction is not referenceable for various reasons--a different NBA, the LeBron James coming back factor, Kevin Love's status, etc.

This is the third time you ignore my question. Why should Kyrie demand more than Butler?


LMAO. I just answered your question. SItuation/circumstance/expectation. Cleveland will in no way take back a Butler package because that would knock them out of contention which will lead to Lebron leaving. If Cleveland will not, under any circumstance, take back a Butler/PG trade framework, that is enough to make PHX offer more, IF they want Kyrie.

Why would Cleveland ever settle for such a low offer for Kyrie? That just compounds the loss of KI with the loss of Lebron


You keep telling me what Cleveland will or will not take. There are TWO sides to this deal. Why should the SUNS give up that much for Kyrie Irving, when a player better who didn't coerce his team on a similar contract got less?
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1492 » by mademan » Fri Aug 4, 2017 8:41 pm

clyde21 wrote:
mademan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Kevin Love was viewed as a top 5 or 7 player in the entire league back then, and that transaction is not referenceable for various reasons--a different NBA, the LeBron James coming back factor, Kevin Love's status, etc.

This is the third time you ignore my question. Why should Kyrie demand more than Butler?


LMAO. I just answered your question. SItuation/circumstance/expectation. Cleveland will in no way take back a Butler package because that would knock them out of contention which will lead to Lebron leaving. If Cleveland will not, under any circumstance, take back a Butler/PG trade framework, that is enough to make PHX offer more, IF they want Kyrie.

Why would Cleveland ever settle for such a low offer for Kyrie? That just compounds the loss of KI with the loss of Lebron


You keep telling me what Cleveland will or will not take. There are TWO sides to this deal. Why should the SUNS give up that much for Kyrie Irving, when a player better who didn't coerce his team on a similar contract got less?


I never said the Suns should give up anything. But if they want to buy a player, they have to at least reach a range that Cleveland is willing to sell at. The Butler/PG trades is not that range. I dont think the Suns should do it, but I also dont think the Cavs should sell light
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1493 » by bwgood77 » Fri Aug 4, 2017 8:45 pm

phraoh wrote:Its funny....all the Phoenix fans keep saying its fine with us if we don't get Kyrie....we are still going to not make the playoffs. Let's just stay on our course. Again, we are talking about a 25 year old all star...not a 30 year old all star....he still fits your age time line, and offers playoff experience to help all your players who have never been there. But he could bolt in 2 years...yeah...Warren could bolt next year...so what? Everyone can bolt or demand a trade.

Bottom line is Phoenix keeps being mentioned....they are HUGELY interested in Kyrie else there wouldn't be all this talk. They aren't getting Kyrie with a lousy Miami draft pick, Bledsoe, and Bender who has shown absolutely nothing. I wish both teams would just do an hour conference call and work it out, since they both obviously want this trade to happen.

Pretty simple give Phoenix 2 choices (one with Jackson and one without), and if they aren't willing to do one of them, move on. Go to next choice and see what can work. Its frustrating to watch as a fan of either team, this negotiating in public. No sense telling us what you would offer if you have already told Cleveland and they said no way.


Yeah, hopefully both teams just move on. It doesn't make sense for either team to do a deal given what they would need/have to give up.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1494 » by tundraknight » Fri Aug 4, 2017 8:46 pm

clyde21 wrote:
mademan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
And If a car similar to the model you're trying to buy sold for 20K, do you still want to purchase yours for 30?

Why should Kyrie garner a better return than Butler?


Markets aren't about fairness, and the similarities between the two situations isn't so similar. Neither the Bulls or pacers were contending for titles, the cavs are. Taking back a bad deal a year from now, if Lebron leaves, is much better than taking back a mediocre deal now. The cavs, according to the media and Dan Gilbert's personality, are willing to start the season with kyrie. They have no reason to settle for Bledsoe and bender and every reason to reject it.



And you still haven't answered my question. Why should Kyrie garner a higher return than Butler? What's your basis for this?


Actually I'm wondering why the Bulls even did that idiotic trade in the first place. Most Bulls fans are irate about it. And most people in general believe it was awful trade for the Bulls.

I don't think it's good logic to assume that since the Bulls and Pacers were recently raped in trades for their star players that the Cavs should also bend over in an Irving trade. Dan Gilbert was qouted recently saying the Pacers could have gotten a much better return if they waited.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1495 » by clyde21 » Fri Aug 4, 2017 8:58 pm

mademan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
mademan wrote:
LMAO. I just answered your question. SItuation/circumstance/expectation. Cleveland will in no way take back a Butler package because that would knock them out of contention which will lead to Lebron leaving. If Cleveland will not, under any circumstance, take back a Butler/PG trade framework, that is enough to make PHX offer more, IF they want Kyrie.

Why would Cleveland ever settle for such a low offer for Kyrie? That just compounds the loss of KI with the loss of Lebron


You keep telling me what Cleveland will or will not take. There are TWO sides to this deal. Why should the SUNS give up that much for Kyrie Irving, when a player better who didn't coerce his team on a similar contract got less?


I never said the Suns should give up anything. But if they want to buy a player, they have to at least reach a range that Cleveland is willing to sell at. The Butler/PG trades is not that range. I dont think the Suns should do it, but I also dont think the Cavs should sell light


And the Cavs shouldn't expect a return higher than Butler's.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1496 » by mademan » Fri Aug 4, 2017 9:00 pm

clyde21 wrote:
mademan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
You keep telling me what Cleveland will or will not take. There are TWO sides to this deal. Why should the SUNS give up that much for Kyrie Irving, when a player better who didn't coerce his team on a similar contract got less?


I never said the Suns should give up anything. But if they want to buy a player, they have to at least reach a range that Cleveland is willing to sell at. The Butler/PG trades is not that range. I dont think the Suns should do it, but I also dont think the Cavs should sell light


And the Cavs shouldn't expect a return higher than Butler's.


If they werent expecting a higher return, they wouldnt even be talking to any teams.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1497 » by oikosnomos » Fri Aug 4, 2017 9:04 pm

clyde21 wrote:
mademan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
You keep telling me what Cleveland will or will not take. There are TWO sides to this deal. Why should the SUNS give up that much for Kyrie Irving, when a player better who didn't coerce his team on a similar contract got less?


I never said the Suns should give up anything. But if they want to buy a player, they have to at least reach a range that Cleveland is willing to sell at. The Butler/PG trades is not that range. I dont think the Suns should do it, but I also dont think the Cavs should sell light


And the Cavs shouldn't expect a return higher than Butler's.


If there is no deal, then Kyrie stays which is fine with the Cavs. The Cavs players have been quoted saying they want him here and the on court product is fantastic. What incentives do the Cavs have to sell low?
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1498 » by clyde21 » Fri Aug 4, 2017 9:09 pm

mademan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
mademan wrote:
I never said the Suns should give up anything. But if they want to buy a player, they have to at least reach a range that Cleveland is willing to sell at. The Butler/PG trades is not that range. I dont think the Suns should do it, but I also dont think the Cavs should sell light


And the Cavs shouldn't expect a return higher than Butler's.


If they werent expecting a higher return, they wouldnt even be talking to any teams.


Except for the fact that they are because, you know, Kyrie is kinda forcing their hand.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1499 » by oikosnomos » Fri Aug 4, 2017 9:10 pm

clyde21 wrote:
mademan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
And the Cavs shouldn't expect a return higher than Butler's.


If they werent expecting a higher return, they wouldnt even be talking to any teams.


Except for the fact that they are because, you know, Kyrie is kinda forcing their hand.


Kyrie requested a trade. I'm not aware of anything past that. That's not a forcing of the hand. Kyrie, short of sitting out until traded, can't really force anything.
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Re: Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1500 » by Stillwater » Fri Aug 4, 2017 9:11 pm

clyde21 wrote:
mademan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
And If a car similar to the model you're trying to buy sold for 20K, do you still want to purchase yours for 30?

Why should Kyrie garner a better return than Butler?


Markets aren't about fairness, and the similarities between the two situations isn't so similar. Neither the Bulls or pacers were contending for titles, the cavs are. Taking back a bad deal a year from now, if Lebron leaves, is much better than taking back a mediocre deal now. The cavs, according to the media and Dan Gilbert's personality, are willing to start the season with kyrie. They have no reason to settle for Bledsoe and bender and every reason to reject it.


So your answer to why the Suns should give up more than the Wolves is because the CAVS are title contenders? What does that have to do with the Suns?

And you still haven't answered my question. Why should Kyrie garner a higher return than Butler? What's your basis for this?


Using your car logic: so you think if I have been looking for a certain car for awhile that is in ltd production and no one will sell me,then 1 pops up for sale, I shouldn't pay more to get it than 2 other people paid for the similar quality cars , but not as rare or hard to find & with more mileage, less options & less residual value? Sorry but I damn sure would pay more for it, just like any org out there looking for a star guard is going to do in the case of one Kyrie Irving.
His value cannot be determined by trades for similar valued players , when those players were traded for different reasons. The Pacers "had to" trade PG13 or get zero for him, not the same. The Bulls didn't have to trade Butler,but since they decided on planning for the future they felt they were actually getting a solid return getting 2 lottery picked high ceiling guards & the lottery draft pick that got them the best offensive big in the draft last season. That really is not that bad of a return for Chicago for a team deciding to build for the future instead of fizzle out every season because they don't have the pieces or the means to add pieces around Butler fast enough to be a contender.
Irving requesting(not demanding) a trade was a shock to a lot of people, but the Cavs were thinking hard about trading him anyway apparently which is likely the real instigator to his desire to be traded,as if he couldn't accept it happening without him having something to do with it.
Either way, it really doesn't matter that he now wants out, because their are plenty of teams wanting that rare car bad enough to do so. Cleveland is not going to be content with 2 upside lottery picked guards and a draft pick like Chicago was, because that is not the direction they are going, it had nothing to do with what Minnesota gave up to get Butler,and everything to do with what Chicago got back being what they wanted and valued enough to pull the trigger.
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