Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion #5: A Serving of Irving?

[BobbieL]

OK - I am worn out with all the Kyrie trade discussion. If it happens it happens, I just hope we do not give up the farm.

Let's dream a bit.

1. We do not make the trade for Kyrie or anyone else and stand pat.
2. We keep all of our current assets as well as draft picks.
3. We show great improvement with 35+ wins.
4. We still are able to grab one of the many bigs available next summer.
5. Cleveland crashes and burns. Kyrie, Rose and Love all go down with injury. (I don't wish it, but it could happen)
6. Lebron decides that Phoenix is his best chance to win a championship next summer and signs with us.

I know LA seems to be Lebron's next landing spot unless something dramatically happens in Cleveland. However to unite with Bledsoe might be enough. Hell Dwayne Wade may even join him for the league minimum.

Not sure how Bledsoe will feel knowing his name has been floated for the past two weeks -if not longer. But I would be okay making no deal instead of a bad deal. Keeping assets one more summer, getting Len in here and having a bucket load of cap space in February might be better than using it on Kyrie/Frye now. Might be able to get more assets or a player or something in February

I just ready to know - yes or no.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[Saberestar]

Darren Wolfson of 1500 ESPN:

"The Phoenix Suns are the team to watch on Kyrie Irving. Now, they won’t offer Josh Jackson plus that Miami 2018 first and Eric Bledsoe. I’m told they’ll do Bledsoe. They’ll do the pick. Plus, Dragan Bender."

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/04/report-suns-willing-to-trade-eric-bledsoe-dragan-bender-first-round-pick-for-kyrie-irving/

So Darren Wolfson has heard too that we are willing to trade Bledsoe/Bender/Miami's pick for Irving.

I think this one can be easily the best offer that the Cavs can get before training camp. We just have to wait...

[pidi]

Darren Wolfson of 1500 ESPN:

"The Phoenix Suns are the team to watch on Kyrie Irving. Now, they won’t offer Josh Jackson plus that Miami 2018 first and Eric Bledsoe. I’m told they’ll do Bledsoe. They’ll do the pick. Plus, Dragan Bender."

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/04/report-suns-willing-to-trade-eric-bledsoe-dragan-bender-first-round-pick-for-kyrie-irving/

So Darren Wolfson has heard too that we are willing to trade Bledsoe/Bender/Miami's pick for Irving.

I think this one can be easily the best offer that the Cavs can get before training camp. We just have to wait...

That would be a Perfect trade imo... Sounds like a steal to me


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[blee732]

What are the latest competing offers for Kyrie? I can't recall seeing anything recently, but are any of them even better than Bled + Miami pick and that's it?

[NavLDO]

Bledsoe
Warren
Reed
Heat 2018 Pick

for

Irving
Frye


Done.

That to me is way too much young talent. Reed, Warren and the Heat Pick. At most they get two of three.
And I still prefer Chriss to Warren.

Bledsoe, Chriss (or Warren) and Heat pick or Reed

At this point, the deals going down, not up, if I'm McD. Today--Final time offered, and good through the weekend:
--Bledsoe, Chriss, Mia 2018 Pick

Monday, 7Aug-to-Friday, 11Aug it, becomes:
--Bledsoe, Chandler, Chriss ... for... Kyrie, Frye (and then we do our darnedest to sign Len for under $10M per for 3 years)

They want to hem-n-haw on it even more...

Sat,12 Aug-to-Wed, 16 Aug, it becomes:
--Bledsoe, Chandler, Heat Pick ... for... Kyrie, Frye (and then we do our darnedest to sign Len for under $10M per for 3 years)

then...we just keep adding/subtracting, making it less desirable until it's obvious they aren't dealing...I'm perfectly fine letting the Cavs implode while we roll out Bled/Book/Jackson or Warren/Chriss/Sauce, Chandler, (or maybe Len??)

But I think GM LeBron gets his little buddy there to Cleveland....

[TOO]

Reed... Dude was a recent 2nd rounder, he will not be a sticking point in any deal. C'mon now.

[GeraldsGreenery]

Looks like the wolves are out on Kyrie

Read on Twitter

[Villalobos]

A trio of Kyrie/Booker/Chriss is going to be unbelievably bad on defense.

[NavLDO]

OK - I am worn out with all the Kyrie trade discussion. If it happens it happens, I just hope we do not give up the farm.

Let's dream a bit.

1. We do not make the trade for Kyrie or anyone else and stand pat.
2. We keep all of our current assets as well as draft picks.
3. We show great improvement with 35+ wins.
4. We still are able to grab one of the many bigs available next summer.
5. Cleveland crashes and burns. Kyrie, Rose and Love all go down with injury. (I don't wish it, but it could happen)
6. Lebron decides that Phoenix is his best chance to win a championship next summer and signs with us.

I know LA seems to be Lebron's next landing spot unless something dramatically happens in Cleveland. However to unite with Bledsoe might be enough. Hell Dwayne Wade may even join him for the league minimum.

Not sure how Bledsoe will feel knowing his name has been floated for the past two weeks -if not longer. But I would be okay making no deal instead of a bad deal. Keeping assets one more summer, getting Len in here and having a bucket load of cap space in February might be better than using it on Kyrie/Frye now. Might be able to get more assets or a player or something in February

I just ready to know - yes or no.

I think this is the ONE team where Bledsoe wouldn't be sore about being traded to, due to his relationship with Lebron. I'm not saying it DID happen, but there is always the chance that McD spoke with Bledsoe; you know, learned a thing or two from deals past gone wrong (Dragic).

Once Kyrie became 'available', McD may very well have called/met with Bledsoe to let him know that he was interested in pursuing Kyrie, but in doing so, Bledsoe would obviously have to be the center piece of that trade. Heck, he may have gone as far as saying "Kyrie has become available for trade, and based upon your close relationship with Lebron, would you want us to try to reach out to Cleveland about sending you there as the centerpiece of that trade from our end? We are very much, perfectly happy maintaining the status quo at the PG position, but this may be your best opportunity to get a ring before you retire, since we are still a year or two from the playoffs, and are an extremely young team that may take another 3-5 years before being true contenders."

[Gorilla Warfare]

A trio of Kyrie/Booker/Chriss is going to be unbelievably bad on defense.

Perfect.

[BobbieL]

A trio of Kyrie/Booker/Chriss is going to be unbelievably bad on defense.

Perfect.

That trio above is why I always include a Dudley or Chandler for Shumpert as part of the deal. the salaries are close to matching - in fact, Dudley is cheaper in year 3 - but Shumpert at least would play some defense especially if you are rolling about Kyrie, Booker, and Ulis at your guard positions. If they trade Frye - Dudley can be that veteran bench guy that is a good teammate; Chandler providers size in the East.

But I agree - the deals do not get better from here on our - they get worse.

[TOO]

Looks like the wolves are out on Kyrie

Read on Twitter

Woof.

[JDLAW]

This Irving trade is tedium. Everybody has hashed and re-hashed this out to the point that all possible scenarios have been gone through. Every time I check in to the board, I expect to see something new, but there isn’t.

To everyone who is claiming the advantage in negotiations, you simply have to ask yourself form whose media are these trade scenarios and negotiating positions leaking from. It seem that everything is coming from the Cleveland Plains Dealer or Sam Amico the USA Today correspondent for the Cavs. Have you seen a single quite directly from the McD and/or Suns? Cleveland’s whole goal here is put on a brave face on a tough situation and hopefully rattle McD to get the Suns to back down and bid against themselves.

The problem for Cleveland is that, because of social media, statements by certain individuals (Irving and James), and tactical leaks to the press by others, everybody knows what Cleveland faces; 1) Lebron and Irving cannot occupy the same locker room, period. The split became irreparable when Irving made his trade request personal and a video showed up mocking LeBron. 2) LeBron and his camp has leaked Irving’s trade request, and has leaked his desire for Bledsoe to replace Irving. 3) There are not really any other options for an Irving replacement that James would approve of. 4) Cleveland has to recover enough talent for Irving to be competitive for the EC finals or they go backwards and LeBron leaves. 5) Cavs with no cap room are major taxpayers and would like to shed tax. 6) Cavs have no veterans or young players that other teams covet. 7) Cavs have no desirable draft picks.

despite the statement they’d be happy taking Irving to camp and opening the season with him if they don’t’ get what they want. Cleveland likely knows that if they bring Irving to camp and play out the year, LeBron leaves after the season. This is very similar to what McD went through when Dragic blew up.

Phoenix is invested in a possible trade, but McD’s silence leaves him some wiggle room to pull out if he wants or needs to with the little real damage or alternatively to include something additional without looking he capitulated to Cleveland’s demands. Bledsoe is the only one prominently mentioned as a certainty who the Suns would include in a trade for Irving. McD is not trading Bledsoe anywhere else and Bledsoe would likely harbor no ill-will or inflict post-trade damage if he gets to play on a team with a probable a deep playoff run in the East, a likely all-star appearance for himself and the opportunity to play with one of his best bids. He has said he loves Phx and the Suns so if he doesn’t get traded he’ll be fine – he won’t be if he were to be shipped somewhere else were he couldn’t play with LeBron.

Normally, if Irving had not burned his bridges and there was truly an open market for Irving, Cleveland would hold the cards in setting the market price. Under these circumstances they are holding a dead mans hand. I have been at similar points during negotiations and one thing that has generally worked is to send a signal of indifference. Given what I am seeing out of the Cleveland press, this likely has been done.

Cleveland knows exactly what has been what has been offered – not discussed, but actually offered. They’re 2 different things. My reading is that, at this time Cleveland knows that Booker, Jackson, and the Suns unprotected 1st in 2018 are unavailable. I suspect Cleveland knows Bledsoe and Miami’s 2018 protected 1st are available but Chriss are Bender are not on the table. The message from the Cavs this morning puts the deal at Bledsoe, Bender and a 1st, is an attempt to establish a floor from which the Cavs want to
further negotiate. I do not think the Suns are there. The Cleveland press release mentioning Booker is an attempt to show how ‘reasonable’ Cleveland is. “We should be demanding Booker, but we aren’t.

Hopefully McD is strong enough to walk away if he cannot get the exact deal he wants.

[BobbieL]

Gambo has spoken - still says its ZERO without Jackson in the deal. And I am fine with that!

Read on Twitter

[Christine-In-AZ]

I've been very much a McDonough apologist, but if he pulls the trigger and brings in Kyrie, especially if it means losing one of the core 4, he's either an idiot or he's giving in to someone else's desires. The only way getting Irving makes (stretched) sense, is if the plan is to get him as an asset to be moved in the next year...didn't we already try this with a similar player and it ended up a multi-faceted cluster**** that is still "echoing ugly" to this day? Or it's just to sell tickets, which will work (somewhat) for one season.

Bledsoe needs to be moved for a young player with potential and a 1 or 2 year expiring salary to free up space for a FA signing next season or two. Like...

Bledsoe>>>>>
<<<<Frank/Frye

Bledsoe/Miami '18 (15-30)>>>>>
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Brogdon/Hawes

Bledsoe/PHX '18 (8-30)>>>>
<<<<<<<Smith Jr./McRoberts

I think overpaying (maybe?) a bit with the picks is fine, due to the dollar savings and length of player control.

Maybe McD can't find trades like these at the moment, but finally cashing in Bledsoe only to get short term "wow" AND having to sacrifice uber young talent in the process? Absolutely disgusting.

[In2ition]

Gambo has spoken - still says its ZERO without Jackson in the deal. And I am fine with that!

Read on Twitter

I have no problem with that.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Gambo has spoken - still says its ZERO without Jackson in the deal. And I am fine with that!

Read on Twitter

So what?..are Gambo believers taking this as the Suns have offered Bender?

[Kerrsed]

....just threw this together right quick....

[JDLAW]

There is no need whatsoever to trade Bledsoe at this time. There is nothing wrong with staggering development of players, in fact it is many times preferable. If we want Irving, he'll be available again in 2 years - when Bledsoe's contract has run. He even said so- he's not committing to anyone. We should be able to make a handsome offer for him as free agent, instead of having him bend us over for $30M/yr. Our core will have two more years of development and we will have the choice of who we proceed forward with and we'll know just how good these players are and can become.

Alternatively maybe we get lucky in the lottery and maybe Bagley comes to us to study under Bledsoe for a year and then take over. The Suns have no pressure to trade for a talented but flawed point guard.