Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

[RCM88x]

I could totally see Bledsoe being an All-Star this year if he's traded to the Cavs. Especially if he's healthy for the first half the season. If there is any drop-off relative to Irving it will be seen in his scoring during the playoffs.

[510TWSS]

I like Bledsoe in the Suns deal, but not sure if I like Bender going back.

I like him as a prospect but it's questionable if he would help them this year. The first is necessary since the Cavs have no picks.

I just wish there was maybe a better second piece in the deal that was more impactful right now than Bender is. I still like him long term, just not sure it's the right fit.

Thought about Warren but he's gonna be paid soon, not sure if that's a fit with the Cavs, plus he doesn't play defense.

I think history shows disgruntled stars get dealt in the 21st century. If not before the season I bet Kyrie is definitely moved before the deadline to maximize his value.

If I were a GM I'd try to get a deal done now while it may be easier to extract a third asset from a team. Not sure the Cavs get as much value at the deadline

[OsuCavsfan103]

I like Bledsoe in the Suns deal, but not sure if I like Bender going back.

I like him as a prospect but it's questionable if he would help them this year. The first is necessary since the Cavs have no picks.

I just wish there was maybe a better second piece in the deal that was more impactful right now than Bender is. I still like him long term, just not sure it's the right fit.

Thought about Warren but he's gonna be paid soon, not sure if that's a fit with the Cavs, plus he doesn't play defense.

I think history shows disgruntled stars get dealt in the 21st century. If not before the season I bet Kyrie is definitely moved before the deadline to maximize his value.

If I were a GM I'd try to get a deal done now while it may be easier to extract a third asset from a team. Not sure the Cavs get as much value at the deadline

But that is what teams want Cavs to feel like. They are trying to strike now while the iron is hot, hoping our disdain about Kyrie and his crap spilling into the season makes us get rid of him as quickly as we can. The Cavs would be wise to be patient and show they aren't just going to trade him simply bc he wants to act like a baby. As a matter of fact, I think it would be really interesting to see what he does if he is forced to play here now.

Plus, if the Cavs think LeBron is almost surely gone, they honestly might wait til the deadline, and see about unloading him in friendlier rebuild moves. FO would have a better feel on if they think LeBron is coming back or not than we would on outside.

[Nuggets_Talk]

Knowing what the potential trade partner really is willing to give up is far more difficult to gauge from the outside than what the Cav's likely expect in return. We know they need a pg, that much we know, we know they need to get younger, that much we know, we know they have an all star who is a top 20 player in the league to offer for whatever they can get.
The way this will go down is this: The Cavs will find a minimum of 2 deals they like 1 that is their non-disclosed preferred deal, so they will go to the org with the preferred deal and tell them they are going to close on a deal another org's offer in the next 24 hours(the lesser preferred but still acceptable to them)and by doing so will give the preferred deal org the option to throw in a better player or additional assets in picks or possibly removal of some or all of the pick protections. If the preferred org bites, the Cav's get the better deal that they wanted the most and they get more than they would have gotten had they not had another deal they were willing to roll with had the preferred org walked away.
Of course no one "knows " what the Cav's want, just a damn good idea, and that is enough to debate the options.

oh right now you know "the way this will go down"

you are just another homer who thinks they know everything. you are just listing how you want it to go down. there is zero chance you know how any of this will go. and we find out the actual deal, we still will never know what went on behind the scenes. we can guess and throw opinions and hopes around...no problem. we are fans. its what we do. but drop this whole "I get it, heres the deal, accept it as fact" schtick. you dont know any more or less than any of us.

good luck this season.

[phraoh]

[quote="NavLDO"][quote="phraoh"][quote="MEGAQUIB"]
Can you name a better, more realistic package from any team than Bledsoe, Warren, Bender?[/quote]

[b]Yes, really any team that puts in a bid...Bledsoe - average to slightly above average pg with huge injury risks,[/b]
[color=#FF0000][b]
Do you remember this period of time??
2012 - https://www.sbnation.com/2012/11/20/3671110/kyrie-irving-injury-history-cleveland-cavaliers
...then...
Jun 5th, 2015 - https://www.sbnation.com/2015/6/5/8734879/kyrie-irving-injury-status-knee-fractured-nba-finals-2015
Mar 17th - http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18929131/cleveland-cavaliers-kyrie-irving-iman-shumpert-suffer-minor-injuries-win-utah-jazz
Jun 4th -- https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/kyrie-irving-reportedly-dealing-with-knee-injury/ar-BBC00fV[/b][/color]

on a decent contract, but only for 2 more years...also 28 vs. 25 for Kyrie. Warren is useless...mediocre player, no outside shot, last year of contract.

[color=#FF0000][b]2015-16 -- 28 of 70 from 3, or 40%, so last year was poor, but other shooters have had poor years...like Kyrie who shot 32.1% in 2015-16...guess he doesn't have an outside shot either, huh?
Plus, Warren is in his 3rd year in the league, and had a 4.1 WS last year, and a whole slew of other advanced stats that shows for last year being his first 'real' season, he's progressed pretty well, and as far as his contract, your welcome, your getting a better player than his agent is going to be able to squeeze the team for. I hope you guys don't get Warren. He's the one piece I want to keep. He's nearly 6'10" now pushing 245, and can score at will, and has a BBIQ that's through the roof.[/b][/color]

Bender - useless to Cavs...hasn't shown anything...whether he will develop is anyone's guess.

[color=#FF0000][b]Yeah, you're probably right. He's 19, played less than 600 minutes. Forget that he's 7'1" and can guard about every position from 2-5, and has 3PT range. Surprised he isn't an All-Star yet...slacker...[/b][/color]

You didn't even give up any decent picks.

[color=#FF0000][b]
If you are referring to the Heat pick, and I've been trying to express this on the Suns forum, why are you so confident a 41-41 team who's best offseason move was obtaining Kelly Olynyk will be so much better than the Suns?[/b][/color]

I would rather have Lee, Frank N, O"quinn and two 1st round pick than Phoenix's offer.

That's fine. We're you offered those by anyone other than realgm fans that have absolutely zero say in these trades? [/quote]

...as a continuation of my last statement above....

Just curious, because I'm seeing a lot of 'decisions' being made by Cav's fans about passing on deals, and so on and so forth, and being stated in such a manner that you all actually believe that your thoughts mean a 'hill of beans'

Put Bledsoe next to Lebron for 3 years (and not shut him down his last 16 games last season) and I'm pretty sure he to could earn a 3rd team All-NBA. one of those years, too. For those who think that Kyrie is somehow this fantastic upgrade to Bledsoe, well, sorry, other than being about 2 1/2 years younger, Kyrie is not that much more, and in some ways, lags behind, Bledsoe.[/quote]

Wow...Phoenix fans are testy....if you polled all the NBA GM's not one would say Warren is a good outside shooter. He hit 24% his first year, 40% his second and 26% his third...or he has averaged....that is an average of 30% over his NBA career....facts are facts.
He is a free agent at the end of the year...he is bound to get more than 3 million....Cavs looking to reduce payroll not increase it.

See what you could get for Bender today...that will tell you his value.

Miami will have a much better record than Phoenix this year (especially if they don't trade for Kyrie !!) They were 41-41 after a ton of injuries at the beginning of the year and I think were like 10-23 at one point or something like that and came back and almost made the playoffs.

The sad thing is Phoenix fans wouldn't even trade Booker straight up for Kyrie (say the $$ matched), but you only have Booker for more years, and Kyrie at this stage is a better player than Booker, and neither one plays defense.

[Kerrsed]

The sad thing is Phoenix fans wouldn't even trade Booker straight up for Kyrie (say the $$ matched), but you only have Booker for more years, and Kyrie at this stage is a better player than Booker, and neither one plays defense.

Nice generalization of a fan base based off a BS opinion that you created yourself to try to support your own statement.

[711takeover]

The sad thing is Phoenix fans wouldn't even trade Booker straight up for Kyrie (say the $$ matched), but you only have Booker for more years, and Kyrie at this stage is a better player than Booker, and neither one plays defense.

Nice generalization of a fan base based off a BS opinion that you created yourself to try to support your own statement.

Facts lol.. Why would the Suns trade Booker for Kyrie straight up? Suns aren't trying to win right now and have the rights to Booker when he hits FA and he is 4-5 yrs younger than Kyrie.

[Kerrsed]

The sad thing is Phoenix fans wouldn't even trade Booker straight up for Kyrie (say the $$ matched), but you only have Booker for more years, and Kyrie at this stage is a better player than Booker, and neither one plays defense.

Nice generalization of a fan base based off a BS opinion that you created yourself to try to support your own statement.

Facts lol.. Why would the Suns trade Booker for Kyrie straight up? Suns aren't trying to win right now and have the rights to Booker when he hits FA and he is 4-5 yrs younger than Kyrie.

Im not saying i would because i totally wouldnt, but some out there would (Depending on what we got in return for Bledsoe via some other trade). We have a poll currently up on the Suns board asking if people would trade Jackson for Irving straight up, and surprising some would (even though i feel the results are skewed by non-Suns fans trolling).

[Ballerhogger]

Most traction I've seen is PHX using Bledsoe as main trade piece. Booker would go well with Irving 3 point shooting. Opens the other side of the court and lots of screen and roles

[Stillwater]

Knowing what the potential trade partner really is willing to give up is far more difficult to gauge from the outside than what the Cav's likely expect in return. We know they need a pg, that much we know, we know they need to get younger, that much we know, we know they have an all star who is a top 20 player in the league to offer for whatever they can get.
The way this will go down is this: The Cavs will find a minimum of 2 deals they like 1 that is their non-disclosed preferred deal, so they will go to the org with the preferred deal and tell them they are going to close on a deal another org's offer in the next 24 hours(the lesser preferred but still acceptable to them)and by doing so will give the preferred deal org the option to throw in a better player or additional assets in picks or possibly removal of some or all of the pick protections. If the preferred org bites, the Cav's get the better deal that they wanted the most and they get more than they would have gotten had they not had another deal they were willing to roll with had the preferred org walked away.
Of course no one "knows " what the Cav's want, just a damn good idea, and that is enough to debate the options.

oh right now you know "the way this will go down"

you are just another homer who thinks they know everything. you are just listing how you want it to go down. there is zero chance you know how any of this will go. and we find out the actual deal, we still will never know what went on behind the scenes. we can guess and throw opinions and hopes around...no problem. we are fans. its what we do. but drop this whole "I get it, heres the deal, accept it as fact" schtick. you dont know any more or less than any of us.

good luck this season.

spend less time critiquing others opinions about what they believe and focus on what you know. Don't come on here telling me what I don't know.Or that I think I know everything.
I am opinionated for sure, biased no.I couldn't care less what the Cav's actually say or what they actually do,or if I ever know what what behind the scenes maneuvering goes down to get it, so long as the deal is a good one.
The negotiation process is above your pay grade, if you actually don't understand the point of my saying "this is how it will go down"
because it is exactly what always happens in trade negotiations when there are bidding wars. But I know nothing since you say so,as if you know what I know when you claim to not know .

[Mulhollanddrive]

Why is it that the highest bidder is getting the most criticism for their offer?

[DowJones]

Why is it that the highest bidder is getting the most criticism for their offer?

Come on man, there is no need for this. Nobody knows what the high offer is. If this is the best offer Cleveland can get then I really hope they keep him. Have LBJ and Kyrie sit down at the start of the year and work things out for 1 last run at a title.

[Ballerhogger]

Why is it that the highest bidder is getting the most criticism for their offer?

Come on man, there is no need for this. Nobody knows what the high offer is. If this is the best offer Cleveland can get then I really hope they keep him. Have LBJ and Kyrie sit down at the start of the year and work things out for 1 last run at a title.

I kinda want Lebron to leave and Kyrie to stay to be honest. Lebron should go west after this year.

[Nuggets_Talk]

spend less time critiquing others opinions about what they believe and focus on what you know. Don't come on here telling me what I don't know.Or that I think I know everything.

because the reasoning behind your argument is that you know what the cavs want or will do, and that we dont. you bring it up repeatedly. youve made it very clear.

I am opinionated for sure, biased no.I couldn't care less what the Cav's actually say or what they actually do,or if I ever know what what behind the scenes maneuvering goes down to get it, so long as the deal is a good one.
The negotiation process is above your pay grade, if you actually don't understand the point of my saying "this is how it will go down"
because it is exactly what always happens in trade negotiations when there are bidding wars. But I know nothing since you say so,as if you know what I know when you claim to not know .

nothing wrong with being opinionated.

but you dont know how it will go down. so stop claiming you do as a response to what other fans think. its just a random idea based upon what you hope happens. and like you said, as long as the deal ends up being good, thats all that fans care about.

[XPeak]

So now it's...

Bledsoe
Bender

That's too low.

Bledsoe
JJ
Chandler

Seems like a fair enough return.

[mg]

I just have a gut feeling that a big time player like Cuban or Riley will get involved here. They both have a history of such deals.

On the outside it doesn't appear Miami can offer enough without including Whiteside but they could offer Bam, Dragic, Winslow and maybe some kind of draft pick or swap? Cavs would probably not prefer to deal with Riley but why not if they have the best deal on the table? Whiteside and Irving would be one nice foundation for the Heat especially with the way Riley can bring in FA's.

As for Cuban he could offer Dennis Smith, Wes Mathews, and their 2018 pick while taking back Irving and Shumpert. The Mavs coincidentally have just enough capspace to make such a deal happen. Kyrie, Noel, Barnes would be a nice little foundation too. Kyrie and Barnes are also good friends from their aau days.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think both of the above deals are better than anything Phoenix can offer assuming Jackson/Booker are off the table. Personally I'm not a fan at all of either Bender or Chriss.

[Kerrsed]

I just have a gut feeling that a big time player like Cuban or Riley will get involved here. They both have a history of such deals.

On the outside it doesn't appear Miami can offer enough without including Whiteside but they could offer Bam, Dragic, Winslow and maybe some kind of draft pick or swap? Cavs would probably not prefer to deal with Riley but why not if they have the best deal on the table? Whiteside and Irving would be one nice foundation for the Heat especially with the way Riley can bring in FA's.

As for Cuban he could offer Dennis Smith, Wes Mathews, and their 2018 pick while taking back Irving and Shumpert. The Mavs coincidentally have just enough capspace to make such a deal happen. Kyrie, Noel, Barnes would be a nice little foundation too. Kyrie and Barnes are also good friends from their aau days.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think both of the above deals are better than anything Phoenix can offer assuming Jackson/Booker are off the table. Personally I'm not a fan at all of either Bender or Chriss.

Miami cant really do much seeming how we own their 2018 and 2020 draft picks, and have been told multiple times now that Cleveland doesnt want the Miami picks.

As for Dallas, i dont see them giving up on a player who looks like he has Irving plus talent and is on a rookie deal (along with other nice assets).

But then again, who knows once you start working 2 team trades damn near anything is possible.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Why are they waiting to give Irving a chance to be traded before making an offer.

[510TWSS]

I like Bledsoe in the Suns deal, but not sure if I like Bender going back.

I like him as a prospect but it's questionable if he would help them this year. The first is necessary since the Cavs have no picks.

I just wish there was maybe a better second piece in the deal that was more impactful right now than Bender is. I still like him long term, just not sure it's the right fit.

Thought about Warren but he's gonna be paid soon, not sure if that's a fit with the Cavs, plus he doesn't play defense.

I think history shows disgruntled stars get dealt in the 21st century. If not before the season I bet Kyrie is definitely moved before the deadline to maximize his value.

If I were a GM I'd try to get a deal done now while it may be easier to extract a third asset from a team. Not sure the Cavs get as much value at the deadline

But that is what teams want Cavs to feel like. They are trying to strike now while the iron is hot, hoping our disdain about Kyrie and his crap spilling into the season makes us get rid of him as quickly as we can. The Cavs would be wise to be patient and show they aren't just going to trade him simply bc he wants to act like a baby. As a matter of fact, I think it would be really interesting to see what he does if he is forced to play here now.

Plus, if the Cavs think LeBron is almost surely gone, they honestly might wait til the deadline, and see about unloading him in friendlier rebuild moves. FO would have a better feel on if they think LeBron is coming back or not than we would on outside.

Yeah I think the whole LeBron situation may put a wrench in the timeline.

Although I wonder what the relationship between Gilbert and LeBron is at. I'm not sure LeBron would let Gilbert know of his plans ahead of time. I mean, he didn't the first time.

I'm just going by recent history of these star trades getting less assets in return than we think here on RealGM.

No one would've guessed the right package for Cousins, no one here would've traded PG for Dipo's bad contract and a lottery ticket.

The counter is that Kyrie has multiple years on his contract. The buffer is that he isn't committing and the cats out of the bag that he wants out now rather than later.

I could see a better package for Ky than either of the DMC or PG packages but I'm not sure that much more considering all the factors.

I would not blame the Cavs for taking the best deal in their opinion now than later.

[510TWSS]

I just have a gut feeling that a big time player like Cuban or Riley will get involved here. They both have a history of such deals.

On the outside it doesn't appear Miami can offer enough without including Whiteside but they could offer Bam, Dragic, Winslow and maybe some kind of draft pick or swap? Cavs would probably not prefer to deal with Riley but why not if they have the best deal on the table? Whiteside and Irving would be one nice foundation for the Heat especially with the way Riley can bring in FA's.

As for Cuban he could offer Dennis Smith, Wes Mathews, and their 2018 pick while taking back Irving and Shumpert. The Mavs coincidentally have just enough capspace to make such a deal happen. Kyrie, Noel, Barnes would be a nice little foundation too. Kyrie and Barnes are also good friends from their aau days.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think both of the above deals are better than anything Phoenix can offer assuming Jackson/Booker are off the table. Personally I'm not a fan at all of either Bender or Chriss.

Miami cant really do much seeming how we own their 2018 and 2020 draft picks, and have been told multiple times now that Cleveland doesnt want the Miami picks.

As for Dallas, i dont see them giving up on a player who looks like he has Irving plus talent and is on a rookie deal (along with other nice assets).

But then again, who knows once you start working 2 team trades damn near anything is possible.

They wouldn't be "giving up" on a player if you get a better player back in return.