Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion #5: A Serving of Irving?

[Saberestar]

A few things on sources as it relates to this trade:

Amico is laughable. He's has no real connections with the Cavs front office and is ridiculed by Cavs fans for close to a decade. The dude has never broken a significant Cavs trade. He's on the Kurt Helin level or worse. The only reason people are paying any attention to anything he's putting out there is that so little info from legit sources has leaked out yet. The current Cleveland Plain Dealer reporters(Vardon,Fedor) are not much better. They're younger guys hired in the last few years who have little in the way of legit connections in the NBA. They're beat reporters but I would not be counting on them for good rumors or even Cavs FO strategic leaks.

For actual Cavs news or even just Cavs propaganda/intentional leaks its Windhorst, Jason Lloyd, Chris Haynes, and of course the big guys like Woj and Shams.

The Cavs FO tried to operate on Kyrie moves after he requested the trade for almost 2 weeks in complete public silence and they were not the ones who leaked it in the first place.

So at this point, there is just no way to know or compare these potential Suns deal iterations vs. other offers as nothing has really broke or leaked yet.

And what do you think about Terry Pluto? Is he legit?

He gave a lot of info and leaks a few days ago.

Pluto has been around in Akron/Cleveland forever. Always been a full city sports beat guy than just focused on the Cavs as far as I remember. Over the past 5-6, I can't recall him doing a ton of Cavs specific based reporting, especially on the rumon end of things. So on one hand, it's weird to see him writing very detailed opinions or facts about the Cavs in the past few weeks, but I on the other, I don't see him as a guy who makes **** up for his own benefit(not a new school gossip/social media/aggregator type of guy)

I'll have to go back and reveiw what he's said on the Kyrie related stuff.

I do agree with Gambano's tweet reply where when asked what teams had offered something better than Bledsoe, Bender, pick, he said several. But that's just based on my own opinion and reading of the tea leaves of this so far being handled very secretly/without many leaks. Is Gambano someone a majority of Suns fans consider legit(I'm a Cavs fan if thats not already obvious)? Not always right, but at least coming from a place of integrity and having legit organizational connections?

Yeah, Gambo is legit.

This is the Terry Pluto info about possible trade options and offers.
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/08/cleveland_cavaliers_scribbles_64.html

[Dupp]

There is really no noise around Kyrie trades compared to what we heard around Paul George or even cavs shopping ky and love at the start of the trade period.

Very quiet/boring. Wish we just swapped him straight up for PG. now we likely get average compensation.

[MirORich]

I'm still on board with getting Kyrie, but the more the Cavs seem to want to drag their feet, the more I'm inclined to walk away. The offer of Bledsoe, Miami, Bender is generous (I love me some Bender) and with the Wolves walking away, that's one less option for the Cavs. I'd still have that offer on the table but it can't be a standing offer. We should walk away if the Cavs can't get their **** together.

That said, I would effin hate it if we walked away and the Cavs traded Kyrie for a worse package than what we're offering.

Anywhere between 8-20 teams have inquired on Kyrie. The Suns can certainly move on and shut down their talks at any point they see fit but the Cavs are hardly dragging their feet.

The fact remains, regardless of the trade request, Kyrie is 25, has scored 40 points multiple times in the Finals, and has two more years left at a relatively modest rate compared to other deals signed in the past two years. A lot of NBA teams right now are debating whether they see him as a second star or as someone who's about to ascend into franchisee player range. His ability to score efficiently from every part of the court is as good as it gets. The defense needs work but the people who think he's just a chucker or volume scorer are not paying attention. In any event, the Suns FO will do what they feel is best for them.

[MirORich]

And what do you think about Terry Pluto? Is he legit?

He gave a lot of info and leaks a few days ago.

Pluto has been around in Akron/Cleveland forever. Always been a full city sports beat guy than just focused on the Cavs as far as I remember. Over the past 5-6, I can't recall him doing a ton of Cavs specific based reporting, especially on the rumon end of things. So on one hand, it's weird to see him writing very detailed opinions or facts about the Cavs in the past few weeks, but I on the other, I don't see him as a guy who makes **** up for his own benefit(not a new school gossip/social media/aggregator type of guy)

I'll have to go back and reveiw what he's said on the Kyrie related stuff.

I do agree with Gambano's tweet reply where when asked what teams had offered something better than Bledsoe, Bender, pick, he said several. But that's just based on my own opinion and reading of the tea leaves of this so far being handled very secretly/without many leaks. Is Gambano someone a majority of Suns fans consider legit(I'm a Cavs fan if thats not already obvious)? Not always right, but at least coming from a place of integrity and having legit organizational connections?

Yeah, Gambo is legit.

This is the Terry Pluto info about possible trade options and offers.
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/08/cleveland_cavaliers_scribbles_64.html

I don't disagree with any of his points and speculation. As to Suns/Cavs, he pretty much says what we all know. Booker is 100% off the table and the Suns would prefer to not deal Jackson. The Cavs would prefer not to do a Suns deal that doesn't contain Bledsoe and Jackson. It's possible neither team budges on that and the sides can not be trading partners. It's also possible one of the two sides budges. It's frustrating for us as fans of both teams to have it drag out during the dog days of Summer, but fro the perspective of the teams, while sooner may be better, is there a true urgency until a week before training camp? It's not in the thick of FA and the earlier Butler/George trade were all the teams had multiple complex options to manage and choose from. It's kind of a closed circuit right now. There is no other similar stature player available on the market at the moment.

[BobbieL]

And what do you think about Terry Pluto? Is he legit?

He gave a lot of info and leaks a few days ago.

Pluto has been around in Akron/Cleveland forever. Always been a full city sports beat guy than just focused on the Cavs as far as I remember. Over the past 5-6, I can't recall him doing a ton of Cavs specific based reporting, especially on the rumon end of things. So on one hand, it's weird to see him writing very detailed opinions or facts about the Cavs in the past few weeks, but I on the other, I don't see him as a guy who makes **** up for his own benefit(not a new school gossip/social media/aggregator type of guy)

I'll have to go back and reveiw what he's said on the Kyrie related stuff.

I do agree with Gambano's tweet reply where when asked what teams had offered something better than Bledsoe, Bender, pick, he said several. But that's just based on my own opinion and reading of the tea leaves of this so far being handled very secretly/without many leaks. Is Gambano someone a majority of Suns fans consider legit(I'm a Cavs fan if thats not already obvious)? Not always right, but at least coming from a place of integrity and having legit organizational connections?

Yeah, Gambo is legit.

This is the Terry Pluto info about possible trade options and offers.
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/08/cleveland_cavaliers_scribbles_64.html

Gambo has some good information. I also have a feeling Ainge uses him to get stuff out there at times too.

But if Gambo said other teams have made better offers - why aren't these offers reported?

Miami - Winslow/Dragic - trading for an OLDER PG and no draft pick
San Antonio - I don't see D Murray being the guy. Cavs don't need LMA; Green --ehh, They aren't get Kawhi
Minnesota: if Wiggins isn't in the offer - keep walking
Knicks have crap - IF the Cavs want to win next year
Denver - unless its Murray or Harris, I don't see Mudiay and picks cutting it

So, I am not saying the Suns have the best offer - just am not sure when Gambo says "several"- who the hell they are? And Gambo usually says stuff (remember, Suns were going to go after Kosta Koufos, Suns were talking GAy for Kieff) - so if he hasn't said specifics of other teams - I think Gambo has his buddy "Stu Gotz" as in Stu Gotz Nuthin!!"

[itlnsunsfan]

Gambo has spoken - still says its ZERO without Jackson in the deal. And I am fine with that!

Read on Twitter

Never thought that package would get it done. That's worse than what the Bulls got.

It's worse than what the Bulls got?

[Kerrsed]

Pluto has been around in Akron/Cleveland forever. Always been a full city sports beat guy than just focused on the Cavs as far as I remember. Over the past 5-6, I can't recall him doing a ton of Cavs specific based reporting, especially on the rumon end of things. So on one hand, it's weird to see him writing very detailed opinions or facts about the Cavs in the past few weeks, but I on the other, I don't see him as a guy who makes **** up for his own benefit(not a new school gossip/social media/aggregator type of guy)

I'll have to go back and reveiw what he's said on the Kyrie related stuff.

I do agree with Gambano's tweet reply where when asked what teams had offered something better than Bledsoe, Bender, pick, he said several. But that's just based on my own opinion and reading of the tea leaves of this so far being handled very secretly/without many leaks. Is Gambano someone a majority of Suns fans consider legit(I'm a Cavs fan if thats not already obvious)? Not always right, but at least coming from a place of integrity and having legit organizational connections?

Yeah, Gambo is legit.

This is the Terry Pluto info about possible trade options and offers.
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/08/cleveland_cavaliers_scribbles_64.html

I don't disagree with any of his points and speculation. As to Suns/Cavs, he pretty much says what we all know. Booker is 100% off the table and the Suns would prefer to not deal Jackson. The Cavs would prefer not to do a Suns deal that doesn't contain Bledsoe and Jackson. It's possible neither team budges on that and the sides can not be trading partners. It's also possible one of the two sides budges. It's frustrating for us as fans of both teams to have it drag out during the dog days of Summer, but fro the perspective of the teams, while sooner may be better, is there a true urgency until a week before training camp? It's not in the thick of FA and the earlier Butler/George trade were all the teams had multiple complex options to manage and choose from. It's kind of a closed circuit right now. There is no other similar stature player available on the market at the moment.

Im pretty sure he has said there is 0 (ZERO) chance we are moving Jackson. Im also pretty sure that the FO has also came out and said that Jackson wont be traded (Also confirmed by Ramona Shelburne). So how exactly do you get that everyone knows that "Booker is 100% off the table and the Suns would prefer to not deal Jackson." I think its pretty evident that both Booker and Jackson are off the table.

Thats the line in the sand right there. Ive seen tones of posts trying to say that "The Suns are waiting for the 3rd because Jackson cant be traded until then, so just wait and watch", yet the time has come and passed and nothing has been done. Waited, watched, and nothing, just like i suspected. Its been reported that we offered Bledsoe/Warren/1st. Its been reported that we have offered Bledsoe/Chriss/1st. Its been reported that we have offered Bledsoe/Bender/1st. I think that pretty much shows we dont plan on trading Jackson. We've tried to make a deal work. We've given Cleveland options. Time to walk away and let the next few weeks play out. Is there going to be more drama? I bet. More leaks? Sure will be. I feel like the longer the process takes, the better it works out for us in the end.

Truth is no one is giving Cleveland what they want. The new GM thinks he is in control of the situation and has the upper hand, but all the other GM's know that this is not the case and are just sitting back. Cleveland will eventually lower their asking price, mark my words.

[MirORich]

Gambo has some good information. I also have a feeling Ainge uses him to get stuff out there at times too.

But if Gambo said other teams have made better offers - why aren't these offers reported?

Miami - Winslow/Dragic - trading for an OLDER PG and no draft pick
San Antonio - I don't see D Murray being the guy. Cavs don't need LMA; Green --ehh, They aren't get Kawhi
Minnesota: if Wiggins isn't in the offer - keep walking
Knicks have crap - IF the Cavs want to win next year
Denver - unless its Murray or Harris, I don't see Mudiay and picks cutting it

So, I am not saying the Suns have the best offer - just am not sure when Gambo says "several"- who the hell they are? And Gambo usually says stuff (remember, Suns were going to go after Kosta Koufos, Suns were talking GAy for Kieff) - so if he hasn't said specifics of other teams - I think Gambo has his buddy "Stu Gotz" as in Stu Gotz Nuthin!!"

I wouldn't assume the interested teams/offers are limited to the 4 on Irvings list + Suns/Nuggets. A confident ownership/FO group, if they believe Irving profiles as a franchise player, are going to believe that in two full years they can create a team and environment around him that makes him extend and that becomes legit contenders. Especially the old school GMs/owners who get that it ultimately is really about your best 2-3 players and everything around them can be tweaked with and massaged.

I mean basically, with the exception of HOU, GS, OKC, LAL, WAS and the teams that are in true tank mode(ATL, CHI) every other team in the NBA should have some interest. Not saying they'll all make aggressive offers and some may be scared off be FA in 2019, but two years in the NBA is a long, long time and there are lot of coaches/GMs who believe in their systems enough to feel that thats a long enough time to make any player with two full years left on their deal want to stay there as the face of a franchise.

[AtheJ415]

I'm still on board with getting Kyrie, but the more the Cavs seem to want to drag their feet, the more I'm inclined to walk away. The offer of Bledsoe, Miami, Bender is generous (I love me some Bender) and with the Wolves walking away, that's one less option for the Cavs. I'd still have that offer on the table but it can't be a standing offer. We should walk away if the Cavs can't get their **** together.

That said, I would effin hate it if we walked away and the Cavs traded Kyrie for a worse package than what we're offering.

Anywhere between 8-20 teams have inquired on Kyrie. The Suns can certainly move on and shut down their talks at any point they see fit but the Cavs are hardly dragging their feet.

The fact remains, regardless of the trade request, Kyrie is 25, has scored 40 points multiple times in the Finals, and has two more years left at a relatively modest rate compared to other deals signed in the past two years. A lot of NBA teams right now are debating whether they see him as a second star or as someone who's about to ascend into franchisee player range. His ability to score efficiently from every part of the court is as good as it gets. The defense needs work but the people who think he's just a chucker or volume scorer are not paying attention. In any event, the Suns FO will do what they feel is best for them.

He is most definitely a chucker. He's an efficient chucker, but still a chucker. And it is a concern for a team like Phoenix who needs to develop a lot of young talent if Kyrie starts shooting 25-30 times a game.

[MirORich]

Yeah, Gambo is legit.

This is the Terry Pluto info about possible trade options and offers.
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/08/cleveland_cavaliers_scribbles_64.html

I don't disagree with any of his points and speculation. As to Suns/Cavs, he pretty much says what we all know. Booker is 100% off the table and the Suns would prefer to not deal Jackson. The Cavs would prefer not to do a Suns deal that doesn't contain Bledsoe and Jackson. It's possible neither team budges on that and the sides can not be trading partners. It's also possible one of the two sides budges. It's frustrating for us as fans of both teams to have it drag out during the dog days of Summer, but fro the perspective of the teams, while sooner may be better, is there a true urgency until a week before training camp? It's not in the thick of FA and the earlier Butler/George trade were all the teams had multiple complex options to manage and choose from. It's kind of a closed circuit right now. There is no other similar stature player available on the market at the moment.

Im pretty sure he has said there is 0 (ZERO) chance we are moving Jackson. Im also pretty sure that the FO has also came out and said that Jackson wont be traded (Also confirmed by Ramona Shelburne). So how exactly do you get that everyone knows that "Booker is 100% off the table and the Suns would prefer to not deal Jackson." I think its pretty evident that both Booker and Jackson are off the table.

Thats the line in the sand right there. Ive seen tones of posts trying to say that "The Suns are waiting for the 3rd because Jackson cant be traded until then, so just wait and watch", yet the time has come and passed and nothing has been done. Waited, watched, and nothing, just like i suspected. Its been reported that we offered Bledsoe/Warren/1st. Its been reported that we have offered Bledsoe/Chriss/1st. Its been reported that we have offered Bledsoe/Bender/1st. I think that pretty much shows we dont plan on trading Jackson. We've tried to make a deal work. We've given Cleveland options. Time to walk away and let the next few weeks play out. Is there going to be more drama? I bet. More leaks? Sure will be. I feel like the longer the process takes, the better it works out for us in the end.

Truth is no one is giving Cleveland what they want. The new GM thinks he is in control of the situation and has the upper hand, but all the other GM's know that this is not the case and are just sitting back. Cleveland will eventually lower their asking price, mark my words.

The part of my earlier post you bolded - that was about the Terry Pluto article. Not prior Gambo tweets. And believe me, from past experiences like the Love deal, I am all to familiar with teams saying they won't include or don't want to include a player and then that player ending up in the deal.

But look, I'm not here to tell you whats going to happen or try to have a one sided CLE perspective about it. The Suns may indeed hold firm about not dealing Jackson, the Cavs may indeed hold firm in asking for him, and both sides may determine their not good trade partners for this deal. From the Suns perspective, it's about how Sarver and McDonough really feel about Irving as an about to enter his prime star. They've been very aggressive about pursuing those types in FA over the past 2-3 year. But FA doesn't involved giving up players, so perhaps they are more patient with their trove of assets and players and ride out "the timeline" in hopes that it succeeds. Time will tell and the opinions of Suns and Cavs fans on message boards will have zero to do with what the powers in those two organizations ultimately decide to do.

[Moochthemonkey]

Gambo has spoken - still says its ZERO without Jackson in the deal. And I am fine with that!

Read on Twitter

Never thought that package would get it done. That's worse than what the Bulls got.

It's worse than what the Bulls got?

for a team trying to rebuild, it certainly is worse. However that is the opposite of what the Cavs are doing.

The comparison is made further invalid as Irving made the trade quest, Butler did not. Therefore the Cavs may have less leverage here in what they can get.

trade proposals from various teams have been discussed here many times. Realistically, there is very few deals that can match what the Suns can offer- the Cavs can either stick with Kyrie or begrudgingly ship him off to other team and bank on the return offering more than the FO hoped for.

[lilfishi22]

I'm still on board with getting Kyrie, but the more the Cavs seem to want to drag their feet, the more I'm inclined to walk away. The offer of Bledsoe, Miami, Bender is generous (I love me some Bender) and with the Wolves walking away, that's one less option for the Cavs. I'd still have that offer on the table but it can't be a standing offer. We should walk away if the Cavs can't get their **** together.

That said, I would effin hate it if we walked away and the Cavs traded Kyrie for a worse package than what we're offering.

Anywhere between 8-20 teams have inquired on Kyrie. The Suns can certainly move on and shut down their talks at any point they see fit but the Cavs are hardly dragging their feet.

The fact remains, regardless of the trade request, Kyrie is 25, has scored 40 points multiple times in the Finals, and has two more years left at a relatively modest rate compared to other deals signed in the past two years. A lot of NBA teams right now are debating whether they see him as a second star or as someone who's about to ascend into franchisee player range. His ability to score efficiently from every part of the court is as good as it gets. The defense needs work but the people who think he's just a chucker or volume scorer are not paying attention. In any event, the Suns FO will do what they feel is best for them.

Trust me, I'm well aware of Kyrie's age, what's he done so far in his career and what he's capable of doing going forward. But this is not a straight talent for asset conversation. If it was, he'd be damn near untradeable. But this is not. The reason he's on the table is because he wants out. He's burned the bridges and sure, you could to build a temporary, half-assed wooden bridge, but how many of the Cavs players are confident enough and would buy into the safety of that said bridge?



And if we're talking trade partners, how many LEGIT trade partners are there and not just teams doing their due diligence? Maybe 3-4?

[TeamTragic]

McD should just tell Gilbert that we have pulled our offer. At this rate they aren't seriously considering trading Kyrie.

[AtheJ415]

At the end of the day, the Cavs have to figure out the following with respect to Kyrie: (1) Is he leaving in FA no matter what happens? For instance, if Lebron walks and Kyrie becomes the cornerstone, is there still no hope he stays? My opinion is that he is leaving regardless. Given that, they have to figure out the next 2 questions: (2) What are the odds of Lebron staying next season if they continue to win (making the finals but no title)? If that answer is less than 50/50 and they believe Lebron is gone regardless, they probably would be better off trading Kyrie for a package of young guys and begin the rebuild. If the answer is 50/50 or higher, then they need to get a guy like Bledsoe or a comparable talent.

The reality is the Cavs will not get what they are asking for. It has not happened in a star trade since Melo, and they don't have the leverage to make that type of deal. Also, as we have seen with Melo, I don't think any team out there is looking to dump over all of their assets in exchange for a star to become the Knicks. If they want a near all-star who is not far from Kyrie plus a top 5 pick type of youngster like Josh Jackson and a first, that trade package won't happen. They want that because they want to both contend now AND rebuild, and there is too limited a group of teams that can offer that type of trade. The only teams that could offer that are Phoenix and Boston, and even then for Boston it would depend on how you feel about Jae Crowder keeping it up since he has only played on that level this season. Boston has a star PG already who they KNOW fits the team, so I don't see them trading for Kyrie when IT is there. For Phoenix, trading that much (or even anything near that much) for Kyrie defeats the purpose of their rebuild. Phoenix needs to be adding assets, and the simple fact that they already have Booker doesn't mean they should be looking to trade Jackson, Bledsoe, AND a first rounder for Kyrie.

If I was Cleveland I would honestly go for the rebuild now because I believe Lebron is gone. If they are worried about optics they probably will need to replace Kyrie with the best player they can so that Lebron can't say the team isn't going in another direction as a reason for leaving. Like I said, optics wouldn't be the basis for my decision if I was them. I would go full rebuild and see if there was any way in hell I could swap Kyrie for Fultz or Ball, or get some other package of youngsters who would fit. Requiring both a star veteran and a youngster the caliber they are requesting is just asinine though. It limits the market to basically just Phoenix and we have 0 reason to bid against ourselves.

[Kerrsed]

I hate hearing people say that we are desperate for a star player and have gone after all the big FA's that we could.

Like...um...no we really havent. We went after Lebron a few years back and were close. We went after Aldridge and were even closer. Went after Griffin and failed this offseason. Im pretty sure there were a ton more "Star" FA's out there that we didnt go after at all.

On top of that, going after a big name star in FA is a hell of a lot different than giving away all your teams best assets for another teams disgruntled star with 2 years left on his contract. Signing a FA means they want to be there and play for your team, usually with the players already on the team and how its constructed. They also make a commitment that they will be there 4-5 years. You get non of that making a trade with Cleveland for Irving.

Its like comparing apples with Volkswagens.

[Kerrsed]

At the end of the day, the Cavs have to figure out the following with respect to Kyrie: (1) Is he leaving in FA no matter what happens? For instance, if Lebron walks and Kyrie becomes the cornerstone, is there still no hope he stays? My opinion is that he is leaving regardless. Given that, they have to figure out the next 2 questions: (2) What are the odds of Lebron staying next season if they continue to win (making the finals but no title)? If that answer is less than 50/50 and they believe Lebron is gone regardless, they probably would be better off trading Kyrie for a package of young guys and begin the rebuild. If the answer is 50/50 or higher, then they need to get a guy like Bledsoe or a comparable talent.

The reality is the Cavs will not get what they are asking for. It has not happened in a star trade since Melo, and they don't have the leverage to make that type of deal. Also, as we have seen with Melo, I don't think any team out there is looking to dump over all of their assets in exchange for a star to become the Knicks. If they want a near all-star who is not far from Kyrie plus a top 5 pick type of youngster like Josh Jackson and a first, that trade package won't happen. They want that because they want to both contend now AND rebuild, and there is too limited a group of teams that can offer that type of trade. The only teams that could offer that are Phoenix and Boston, and even then for Boston it would depend on how you feel about Jae Crowder keeping it up since he has only played on that level this season. Boston has a star PG already who they KNOW fits the team, so I don't see them trading for Kyrie when IT is there. For Phoenix, trading that much (or even anything near that much) for Kyrie defeats the purpose of their rebuild. Phoenix needs to be adding assets, and the simple fact that they already have Booker doesn't mean they should be looking to trade Jackson, Bledsoe, AND a first rounder for Kyrie.

If I was Cleveland I would honestly go for the rebuild now because I believe Lebron is gone. If they are worried about optics they probably will need to replace Kyrie with the best player they can so that Lebron can't say the team isn't going in another direction as a reason for leaving. Like I said, optics wouldn't be the basis for my decision if I was them. I would go full rebuild and see if there was any way in hell I could swap Kyrie for Fultz or Ball, or get some other package of youngsters who would fit. Requiring both a star veteran and a youngster the caliber they are requesting is just asinine though. It limits the market to basically just Phoenix and we have 0 reason to bid against ourselves.

The thing is that they are holding on hope that Lebron will re-sign there. His famous 1-year contracts are a major dick move. Its holding the Cav's hostage. How can they plan a future when they have no idea what their Mega-Star player is going to do. So then they are stuck trying to appease him. That right there is the major reason why they are asking too damn much for Irving. They need to better their team this season for Lebrons sake. If not, then he leaves next year, so they also need a back-up plan for that and thats why they are desperately trying to get us to include Jackson and our 1st. And what if for some reason Lebron does decide to stay in Cleveland another year (I truly think he is moving on)? Then they are stuck with dealing with this BS for yet another year. Its a total dick move on his part. They need to change the CBA to state that players on one year contracts can not have no-trade clauses. Even if they knew behind the scenes that he was leaving, and started to try to rebuild for their future rather than to put a champion contending team around Lebron (Trading Irving/Love/etc.), then the fans would be pissed thinking that the Cav's didnt care and helped push Lebron out the door.

Its a lose/lose situation for them any way you look at it. Live by the Kings sword, die by the Kings sword. Lebron is leaving Cleveland in a **** situation no matter what he does, and its all on him, but magically somehow he has the fans hoodwinked into not seeing how he is the bad guy in all of this.

[DaleyBlind]

So who would you prefer to deal in an Irving trade - Warren, Chriss or Bender.

And would you accept this deal?

Cavs - Bledsoe, Chandler, 1 of Warren/Chriss/Bender and 18 Heat
Suns - Irving, Shumpert

[TeamTragic]

So who would you prefer to deal in an Irving trade - Warren, Chriss or Bender.

And would you accept this deal?

Cavs - Bledsoe, Chandler, 1 of Warren/Chriss/Bender and 18 Heat
Suns - Irving, Shumpert

Gambo just said that Bledsoe/Bender/pick is not enough therefore I'm out

[Moochthemonkey]

If I was Cleveland I would honestly go for the rebuild now because I believe Lebron is gone.

So you would delay the rebuild by just one year, foregoing almost a clear path to the finals, because there's a chance that Lebron leaves? that's not even entirely possible...the Cavs are going to have a hard time trading their players, and even if they did Lebron said he wouldn't waive his trade clause...so at worse Cavs become a 4-5 seed and far from a lottery pick.

[Kerrsed]

So who would you prefer to deal in an Irving trade - Warren, Chriss or Bender.

And would you accept this deal?

Cavs - Bledsoe, Chandler, 1 of Warren/Chriss/Bender and 18 Heat
Suns - Irving, Shumpert

Gambo just said that Bledsoe/Bender/pick is not enough therefore I'm out

As i stated before, at this point we need to just walk away and let the Cav's stew in their own juice. We all pretty much believe that we have the best offer(s) out there, and if they trade him elsewhere its going to be for an inferior package and their look just like Chicago and Indiana, with people snickering about how little they got in return.

They can say all they want about them not needing to trade Irving, but the reality is that they do. He asked for a trade about a month or so ago. He's not talking to anyone in the organization at all. The Irving/Lebron bridge is burnt to the ground. But somehow they expect him to come to training camp and act like nothing happened and play his little heart out for them, all while not being a distraction for the team or creating a very awkward locker room? Yeah.......

Ive even seen some posters say that they will keep him for the entire year, and if Lebron leaves then they will just build around him. LOFNL. 1. Im sure Lebron is going to LOVE that idea. 2. Its pretty much telling Lebron adios. 3. You think Irving will be all of a sudden hunky-dory with the FO, after they have catered to Lebron this whole time and ignored Irvings plea to be traded? Guess again.

They are screwed.

And we dont need to do a thing. We just sit back sippin' our lemonade. We dont need to make a trade. We dont need to give into no ones demands. We dont have issues in our locker room that need to be settled. We are just fine with where we are at the moment, therefor we dont need to add a damn thing to increase our offer for Irving, because i believe in the end we are just bidding against ourselves.