Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion #5: A Serving of Irving?

[Moochthemonkey]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycmbamhy

PHX gets: Irving
POR gets: Love
MIL gets: TT

Cleveland gets Bledsoe/Chriss/MIA 1st (From PHX), Harkless/Davis/Collins/1st (From POR), Monroe/Parker/Brogdon (From MIL).

They then flip Bledsoe to another team for more assets (Say to Denver for Harris/Faried). Use Monroe/Davis as $25M in Expirings (to trade for assets). I think at this point Lebron would bail, so trade him to team he wants to go to for a nice young player and a pick (Say Lakers for Lopez/Clarkson/Nance/future 1st). Once again, use Lopez's $18M expiring for more assets or just let expire.

I'd say thats a nice haul of up-and-coming young talent (along with a few additional draft picks)

Then going into next season you have:

Brogdon/Clarkson
Harris/Shumpert/Smith
Harkless/Korver
Parker/Faried/NanceJr
Chriss/Collins

along with CLE 1st/MIA 1st/POR 1st/LAL 1st (2020?)

IDK, just an idea off the top of my head for a hypothetical situation that will never happen, lol.

for Milwaukee- yikes! why the hell would they ruin a solid core going forward including sending out the guy that just won rookie of the year and Jabari Parker (very solid PF even with an injury history) for TT and Shumpert? If that's not bad enough, Monroe is expiring and TT has 3 more years!

Eh...the rookie of the year thing is kinda weird for last season. The kid wasnt so much great, just the rest of the rookie class had better players stuck behind more established players. Very very odd for a Rookie of the year to be 24 years old (3 months younger than Irving, lol) 2nd round pick with kinda a bleh stat line. And im sorry, but i dont think he really should have won that award. Who was the better rookie, a PG that put up 10/4/3 (14.9PER) in 26MPG or a C that was BEASTING until injury mid season with 20/8/2.5blks (24.15PER) in 25 minutes. That Rookie of the year award should have gone to Embiid.

As for TT, i think Milwaukee needs that presence in the post (REBOUNDING). Thats actually something TT is very good at even if he is undersized. I would like to see a Delladovea/Middleton/FREAK/Thon/TT lineup. Parker, eh, idk, that ACL injury was baaaaad. He's not supposed to be back until late february according to Coach Kidd. Even then will he be 100%? Will he ever be 100% again? Who knows, but thats a bad question to have to answer when your on an expiring contract like he is.

deserving of ROY or not, trading Brogdon is not something you do at this point unless you're receiving a certain Lakers 1st that was acquired in a Steve Nash trade, at the least.

Parker is still a 20 PPG two-way player...they can use the rest of next season to asses what kind of contract he should get (or what should be matched).

the trade just makes little sense from a young team that's already qualified for the playoffs and still far from their potential. TT is indeed a great rebounder but overall a limited player. Milwaukee could use the 15+ million over the next two offseasons for better purposes, or even retain Monroe for a lesser price than what he/TT are currently making seeing that the market price for these type of guys is diminished. That's why Monroe accepted his PO; TT can thank LeGM for his contract.

[Kerrsed]

for Milwaukee- yikes! why the hell would they ruin a solid core going forward including sending out the guy that just won rookie of the year and Jabari Parker (very solid PF even with an injury history) for TT and Shumpert? If that's not bad enough, Monroe is expiring and TT has 3 more years!

Eh...the rookie of the year thing is kinda weird for last season. The kid wasnt so much great, just the rest of the rookie class had better players stuck behind more established players. Very very odd for a Rookie of the year to be 24 years old (3 months younger than Irving, lol) 2nd round pick with kinda a bleh stat line. And im sorry, but i dont think he really should have won that award. Who was the better rookie, a PG that put up 10/4/3 (14.9PER) in 26MPG or a C that was BEASTING until injury mid season with 20/8/2.5blks (24.15PER) in 25 minutes. That Rookie of the year award should have gone to Embiid.

As for TT, i think Milwaukee needs that presence in the post (REBOUNDING). Thats actually something TT is very good at even if he is undersized. I would like to see a Delladovea/Middleton/FREAK/Thon/TT lineup. Parker, eh, idk, that ACL injury was baaaaad. He's not supposed to be back until late february according to Coach Kidd. Even then will he be 100%? Will he ever be 100% again? Who knows, but thats a bad question to have to answer when your on an expiring contract like he is.

deserving of ROY or not, trading Brogdon is not something you do at this point unless you're receiving a certain Lakers 1st that was acquired in a Steve Nash trade, at the least.

Parker is still a 20 PPG two-way player...they can use the rest of next season to asses what kind of contract he should get (or what should be matched).

the trade just makes little sense from a young team that's already qualified for the playoffs and still far from their potential. TT is indeed a great rebounder but overall a limited player. Milwaukee could use the 15+ million over the next two offseasons for better purposes, or even retain Monroe for a lesser price than what he/TT are currently making seeing that the market price for these type of guys is diminished. That's why Monroe accepted his PO; TT can thank LeGM for his contract.

Cut me some slack, i made it in like 5 minutes off the top of my head, lol.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

First Wolfson says "the Suns are the team to watch" because our offer is pretty good even without Booker or Jackson. Now Gambo thinks that everyone else has a better offer

The problem with our offer is that Bender/Chriss are really raw.

Josh Jackson looks more NBA ready for a playoff team, he showed that on the Summer League. He can be a good option for them now as a backup and long term as a cornerstone if/when LeBron goes to another team.

I don't want to give up Jackson, so I would improve the pick that they are gonna get. I am pretty sure that with Irving and Jackson next year we are not gonna be bottom five in the league. There are so many terrible teams in the East, so we can trade our 2018 pick with some protection.

[thamadkant]

Read on Twitter

First Wolfson says "the Suns are the team to watch" because our offer is pretty good even without Booker or Jackson. Now Gambo thinks that everyone else has a better offer

gambo's lost.


better offer from everyone else???


where are these offers?

Nuggets willing to trade 2 future cornerstones in Harris and Murray??
Pistons offering Jackson, Drummond??? But thats not better than Suns.
Spurs offering Green and Aldridge??.. if so Cavs should take that and run.
76ers willing to offer Fultz and Reddick???... if so... WOW, go Cavs.


Gambo is full of hot air.

[Bjorpa]

I don't want to give up Jackson, so I would improve the pick that they are gonna get. I am pretty sure that with Irving and Jackson next year we are not gonna be bottom five in the league. There are so many terrible teams in the East, so we can trade our 2018 pick with some protection.

There Are many terrible teams inn the east, but they ONLY have to play the stacked West 30 games.
We have 52 games against teams in the West.

[JMac1]

Well, at least the Kyrie talk kept us busy for a few weeks, however, I'm done. Football season is here, desperation time is training camp for Cleveland. After all of the dust-up Kyrie has caused, I dare them bring him back to camp. Lebron won't be the only person that would have issue with him; heck, the city of Cleveland has already put out at video of disgust towards the guy.

Bledsoe, Miami, and Chris not Bender.... take it or leave it. Nothing changes for me. I still can't wait to see Jackson and Booker and Bender play.....and suck at the same time getting a great pick next year.

I just want to enjoy watching my team play, and that doesn't have to and won't involve winning a title in the next few years.....I could care less right now.

Again, I just don't dig being in the wondering and begging situation for players. You are Sun or you are not a Sun. Jackson and Booker and Chriss and Bender are Suns for a long time if the FO wants them to be Suns. If they develop like they can, I think they would want to be Suns too.

Cleveland and Kyrie can jump in a Lake Erie.

[King4Day]

Well, at least the Kyrie talk kept us busy for a few weeks, however, I'm done. Football season is here, desperation time is training camp for Cleveland. After all of the dust-up Kyrie has caused, I dare them bring him back to camp. Lebron won't be the only person that would have issue with him; heck, the city of Cleveland has already put out at video of disgust towards the guy.

Bledsoe, Miami, and Chris not Bender.... take it or leave it. Nothing changes for me. I still can't wait to see Jackson and Booker and Bender play.....and suck at the same time getting a great pick next year.

I just want to enjoy watching my team play, and that doesn't have to and won't involve winning a title in the next few years.....I could care less right now.

Again, I just don't dig being in the wondering and begging situation for players. You are Sun or you are not a Sun. Jackson and Booker and Chriss and Bender are Suns for a long time if the FO wants them to be Suns. If they develop like they can, I think they would want to be Suns too.

Cleveland and Kyrie can jump in a Lake Erie.

I don't think we're going to suck next year. Even if we're equally as good, we're a 30 win team. The kids will improve and Bledsoe will be the same at least. Now, with Ulis and Williams, who both improved dramatically last season, I can see us doing more than most expect. This is all assuming we don't sit the guys another 15 games.

[BobbieL]

Gambo has spoken - still says its ZERO without Jackson in the deal. And I am fine with that!

Read on Twitter

Never thought that package would get it done. That's worse than what the Bulls got.

It's worse than what the Bulls got?

Bulls didn't get much. Lavine, is all potential. Dunn had a bad rookie year - see what happens, Markkanen can score but they also gave up the 16th pick in the draft. That was not a good deal for the Bulls

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

First Wolfson says "the Suns are the team to watch" because our offer is pretty good even without Booker or Jackson. Now Gambo thinks that everyone else has a better offer

gambo's lost.


better offer from everyone else???


where are these offers?

Nuggets willing to trade 2 future cornerstones in Harris and Murray??
Pistons offering Jackson, Drummond??? But thats not better than Suns.
Spurs offering Green and Aldridge??.. if so Cavs should take that and run.
76ers willing to offer Fultz and Reddick???... if so... WOW, go Cavs.


Gambo is full of hot air.

Sometimes Gambo has good information, other times, being fed a line of crap (I think Wolfley even called him out once about Ainge using him by the way) - but anyway, if Gambo says there are better offers - why not say it.

Gambo has broken other stories - why not break he news to the Suns -what teams have better offers?

But to your point above - LMA and Green is not a good offer for the Cavs. Unless like JR Smith is going back to the Spurs. And with Love there, and TT there, what good does Aldridge do for the Spurs. To me, that's a horrible trade for Kyrie Irving. Who is there point guard.

Fultz and Reddick - sure

Harris and Murray - for the long term - sure

For the short term AND long term: Suns can give Bledsoe, veteran, possibly a young forward, a couple draft picks and take back contracts

Cavs - its your move

[Qwigglez]

Beating this skeleton dead horse again and again and again.
I would not offer Bender. I would actually prefer to offer our 2018 1st unprotected (with Miami 2018 pick too) or pick swap actually if it came down to none of our core players getting traded (Booker/Jackson/Bender/Chriss/Warren/Ulis/Reed). I would then sign Alex Len to maybe a 27mil for 3 years deal (last year player option). This way, our rotation looks complete in my eyes. We have a lot of versatility everywhere.

Irving/Ulis - Amazing PG rotation. Ulis provides the defense even for his small stature, and the playmaking ability off the bench. Can likely spark a bench run when our starters are resting. Irving obviously is the firepower behind our offense, and hopefully we implement a system where he doesn't have to necessarily make plays for others, however he can make an easy pass that can lead to a bucket.
Booker/Reed - Reed shown me maturity in summer league, and I think can provide some defensive toughness in a wing. He's capable of hitting threes and has shown the ability to drive straight to the bucket. Don't think he can necessarily create plays for himself though. Booker I'm hoping will continue improving all around. His efficiency is what I want to see improved the most, besides defense. If he can start shooting 45% from the field that will make a huge difference. 39% from 3 will be solid too.
Jackson/Warren - Likely our strongest position. Jackson will provide the defensive leadership in our starting unit. Warren will provide the scoring off the bench. Jackson can likely be a secondary playmaker, though I think Booker/Irving can also make plays for others.
Bender/Williams/Peters - Could be considered our weakest position. Bender is still developing, and I'm not sure what to expect from a late 2nd round pick. Likely Bender won't even start, but I'm hoping for it. He can stretch the floor for our guards, and has the versatility to guard virtually every position. Williams is still the heart of the team. Whenever he plays it seems to get our entire team hype and motivated.
Chriss/Len - Chriss worried me after summer league. For some reason I felt he was going to show more maturity but he didn't. I'm hoping he picks up some defensive awareness somewhere down the line since he is holding down the paint. Len can easily come in and replace him as our defensive anchor.

I'm very comfortable with that lineup for the next two years, and I think as a unit they cover each others deficiencies in one way or another. I'm not saying we are a playoff team, but maybe in 2018 season we start putting some wins together.

Having said all that silliness we are likely going to trade two of those guys in the above rotation...

[AtheJ415]

If I was Cleveland I would honestly go for the rebuild now because I believe Lebron is gone.

So you would delay the rebuild by just one year, foregoing almost a clear path to the finals, because there's a chance that Lebron leaves? that's not even entirely possible...the Cavs are going to have a hard time trading their players, and even if they did Lebron said he wouldn't waive his trade clause...so at worse Cavs become a 4-5 seed and far from a lottery pick.

Who is talking about trading other people? All I'm saying is I would begin the rebuild by trading Kyrie for young players instead of going for players who could help them win now. I don't expect them to do that, but it is what I would do because in my opinion Lebron is gone regardless.

What I said has absolutely 0 to do with anything else but the Kyrie trade as for as rebuilding goes. You can rebuild by trading the 1 asset you have for young guys even if you can't trade the others. That is entirely possible.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

A lightly protected future first from the Cavs and that Houston pick LA received from HOU is all I would need to do this:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ydzcyjs4

[NavLDO]

You pretty much proved my point there. The draft is a crapshoot. Tank-advocatists hedge their entire future on draft picks that may never pan out. You can hit big on a top 5 pick, or you may not. You may hit big on a late first rounder, who knows?

Im not willing to pass up the opportunity to acquire Kyrie by drafting that Top 5 pick superstar that may never happen. Who knows if Bender or Chriss pan out? People are saying the same things about Bender that we were saying about Len 3 years ago. Lets not let the obsession and addiction to a "full blown youth movement" blind us from the roses in front of us, which is an opportunity to trade for a Superstar player while still keeping a huge chunk of our young assets

Exactly. I'm coming into this debate blind, and have no idea what the original argument is about, but if it has anything to do with not wanting to trade our next year's draft pick as part of the package for Kyrie, well, to me, that makes no sense. Heck, Kyrie is a #1 Overall Pick. What does that mean? IDK. Some will say he hasn't lived up to #1 Overall Pick status, well that happens...a lot...if one is in the camp that he has, then great, why wouldn't you trade any pick we own as part of the package, since Kyrie is only 25, and has at least 6-8 good years left in him. Maybe he and Booker work together famously, who knows?

But back to draft picks and this specific trade. I also see a ton of fans here saying 'I wouldn't trade our pick, but I would trade the Heat's. Why? If we get Irving by trading Chriss, our 2018 pick, and Bledsoe, regardless who 'starts', we likely have Irving, Booker, Jackson, Warren, Chandler, Sauce, Bender, Dudley, and Ulis getting 20+ minutes a game. That's a good blend of veteran experience and youth, and despite what some may think, I consider the 2+ years younger player, who even has one less NBA year experience, BUT, has 1700 more minutes played, as being more of a 'veteran' player. So that's Kyrie, Chandler, Dudley, or 1/3, as being seasoned vets, another 2 as being considered to young veterans, and the other four as brand new.

Yes, they are on the young side, but not impossibly so that they cannot perform well this year. My point is, there is no 'for certain' argument that the Heat will outperform us this season. Heck, look at their roster this upcoming season, and they only have Dragic, Whiteside, Johnson, and Waiters as guys with 5+ years experience with that are halfway decent. I like our odds with Irving to be close to as good as the Heat this year; at best, I see the Heat picking 16th. At worst, unless we win the lottery ( yeah right), we are likely closer to 7th to 9th. Barring an injury to Booker, Kyrie, or Warren, I think we finish in the teens, and I'll leave it at that.

It makes all the sense actually. The gap between Bledsoe and Kyrie is not worth a top 5 pick in this next draft. First, a rookie you control for 7 years. Kyrie you control for 2. Next, the rookie fits better with the age group of the rest of the players, and the top 5 of this upcoming draft is loaded. I would say all of them have the upside of being as good as Kyrie, though obviously not all of them will reach it. Bledsoe alone is nearly as good as Kyrie, and the other teams aren't stepping up their offers enough for us to include our pick to begin with.

Our pick shouldn't be a part of this deal unless appropriately protected. The argument that nothing is for sure would suggest we should trade all of our future draft picks in perpetuity for Kyrie. Josh Jackson isn't a certainty. Booker isn't a certainty. The truth is the minimal cap space those guys occupy combined with the potential to get a franchise cornerstone that you control for nearly a decade is a mammoth thing. The chance that you hit in would be worth more to us than Kyrie. Thus, it is a significant and very tangible thing that you should prevent trading. That is the very reason high picks are cherished in trades for superstars.

I think you missed my point; what you are saying makes sense, but there are a few points I do not think you are considering:

1) Kyrie, like it or not, is a 'bigger name draw' than Bledsoe for FA next year.
2) I agree that Kyrie vs Bledsoe, talent-wise, is not that big, but you ARE getting an overall better player who is 2.5 years younger, and totally fits within out timeline. You of all posters, well, I'm rather shocked to hear that from regarding our debate from a few days back. Kyrie is literally only 4 years, 7+ mos older than our youngest player, Bender; 3 yrs 11mos older than Jackson; 3yrs 7mos older than Booker; and only 6 mos older than Warren. He fits in just fine.
3) If we do not trade for Kyrie; we keep the status quo. Where exactly are we going to fit our two new rookies, at least one of which, according to you, will be a high lotto pick next year, next to Bender, Chriss, Warren, Jackson, Booker, Bledsoe? We can't keep collecting young talent. The goal was to collect assets to get prized Trades with our assets.

And yes, I think there are a few points you are taking for granted:

1) You are assuming that we will be in the top 5 picks again after we acquire Irving. You are basing this assumption on a team that will, on paper, have improved in the off-season; won't have a rookie HC; and won't be in Tank-mode.
2) You are making assumptions that all these great prospects a) will declare, b) play up to their potential, c) not get injured d) even if we end up with, say, the 4th worst record, that the lottery 'gods' that have been so kind to us in the past, will keep us in the top 5.

And then, the point that, well, you missed my main argument. Who's to say that our pick will be the more valuable between ours and the Heat's? The Heat have not really improved on paper, were 41-41, I think, last year, and may very well have a pick very close to ours. Imagine how sick we all will be if we trade the Heat pick, assuming they'll be fine, and they end up picking 6th, and we perform better than projected, barely miss the playoffs, and pick 14th. Congrats, Cleveland, you just got the 6th pick in the draft...we'll be back here, 8 spots back, to pick the scraps left over, which might be some nice pieces, but all those Centers we needed? Yeah, well there gone, and one of them is sitting in Miami. That was my point. I wouldn't be so quick to judge that our pick will be worth more, is all I was saying.

[BobbieL]

A lightly protected future first from the Cavs and that Houston pick LA received from HOU is all I would need to do this:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ydzcyjs4

This is just a salary cap dump for the Suns - well trading Bledsoe for Beveryly and picks

Thomas is for three more years though - but cheaper - eats into your cap that third year. Knight can be stretched though if need be

I don't hate it - still would prefer Frank N for Bledsoe though

[BobbieL]

Beating this skeleton dead horse again and again and again.
I would not offer Bender. I would actually prefer to offer our 2018 1st unprotected (with Miami 2018 pick too) or pick swap actually if it came down to none of our core players getting traded (Booker/Jackson/Bender/Chriss/Warren/Ulis/Reed). I would then sign Alex Len to maybe a 27mil for 3 years deal (last year player option). This way, our rotation looks complete in my eyes. We have a lot of versatility everywhere.

Irving/Ulis - Amazing PG rotation. Ulis provides the defense even for his small stature, and the playmaking ability off the bench. Can likely spark a bench run when our starters are resting. Irving obviously is the firepower behind our offense, and hopefully we implement a system where he doesn't have to necessarily make plays for others, however he can make an easy pass that can lead to a bucket.
Booker/Reed - Reed shown me maturity in summer league, and I think can provide some defensive toughness in a wing. He's capable of hitting threes and has shown the ability to drive straight to the bucket. Don't think he can necessarily create plays for himself though. Booker I'm hoping will continue improving all around. His efficiency is what I want to see improved the most, besides defense. If he can start shooting 45% from the field that will make a huge difference. 39% from 3 will be solid too.
Jackson/Warren - Likely our strongest position. Jackson will provide the defensive leadership in our starting unit. Warren will provide the scoring off the bench. Jackson can likely be a secondary playmaker, though I think Booker/Irving can also make plays for others.
Bender/Williams/Peters - Could be considered our weakest position. Bender is still developing, and I'm not sure what to expect from a late 2nd round pick. Likely Bender won't even start, but I'm hoping for it. He can stretch the floor for our guards, and has the versatility to guard virtually every position. Williams is still the heart of the team. Whenever he plays it seems to get our entire team hype and motivated.
Chriss/Len - Chriss worried me after summer league. For some reason I felt he was going to show more maturity but he didn't. I'm hoping he picks up some defensive awareness somewhere down the line since he is holding down the paint. Len can easily come in and replace him as our defensive anchor.

I'm very comfortable with that lineup for the next two years, and I think as a unit they cover each others deficiencies in one way or another. I'm not saying we are a playoff team, but maybe in 2018 season we start putting some wins together.

Having said all that silliness we are likely going to trade two of those guys in the above rotation...

the best I am willing for that pick next year is top 6, if not 7 protected. Possibly Bagley, Bamba, Ayton, Porter, the kid from Europe who is supposed to be the best prospect ever from Europe - that's 5 - so yes, best I will do with that pick is Top 7 protected.

I don't mind giving the Heat pick as to me - Suns were probably never going to use both picks. Gambo even said that - they would probably trade it to get a player or package it for a higher draft pick.

I don't see the need to sign Len to a 3 year deal for 27m unless the third year is a team option with a $1m buyout.

[Fo-Real]

So, are we gonna allow Len back? Chandler gonna stay? Are we thinking of trading Bled for a prospect and a pick or is he off the table now? Ray, these are the questions I have, would like to forget Clevland ever called and attempted to strong arm us out of **** we didn't want to give. Let THEM figure out what THEY are gonna do to figure out THEIR problem and move onto whats next. Bled, Booker, Warren, Jackson, Bender, Chriss and Ulis is a young group that I am looking forward to watching grow and gel like brothers.

[Cutter]

.............

Welcome to the McD Grey Zone!

hahaha I love it.

[rsavaj]

Maybe the Cavs really do have better offers from everyone else, but if that's the case, then I think it's best to walk away.

Giving up Bender in this deal would be a real blow IMO.

[TeamTragic]

Exactly. Trade Bender for a two year rental? That makes zero sense for the rebuild.

I feel the same about Chriss/Warren. This trade is not happening.

Even though it's a lowball offer it's not nothing. He's offering either top-10 pick from from the 16' draft, a solid PG and first rounder. McD must be getting positive intel from Jones.

With the shady stuff McD has been pulling, it wouldnt surprise me if Jones has been DMing Irving on the side. Sure its against the rules, but eh... whos to know? And they were just former teammates like months ago, so who says a friend cant call a friend and say "Hi, whats new?" every once and a while?

Welcome to the McD Grey Zone!

Just want to make it clear that I approve McD

Well, at least the Kyrie talk kept us busy for a few weeks, however, I'm done. Football season is here, desperation time is training camp for Cleveland. After all of the dust-up Kyrie has caused, I dare them bring him back to camp. Lebron won't be the only person that would have issue with him; heck, the city of Cleveland has already put out at video of disgust towards the guy.

Bledsoe, Miami, and Chris not Bender.... take it or leave it. Nothing changes for me. I still can't wait to see Jackson and Booker and Bender play.....and suck at the same time getting a great pick next year.

I just want to enjoy watching my team play, and that doesn't have to and won't involve winning a title in the next few years.....I could care less right now.

Again, I just don't dig being in the wondering and begging situation for players. You are Sun or you are not a Sun. Jackson and Booker and Chriss and Bender are Suns for a long time if the FO wants them to be Suns. If they develop like they can, I think they would want to be Suns too.

Cleveland and Kyrie can jump in a Lake Erie.

QFTMFT

Maybe the Cavs really do have better offers from everyone else, but if that's the case, then I think it's best to walk away.

Giving up Bender in this deal would be a real blow IMO.

Gilbert did this franchise a favor. We get to keep Bender

[phnart]

The more I think about this one, the more I don't like the idea of Irving on the Suns. He's a great player and would be fun to watch, but it feels like a step in the wrong direction. I also think including Bender is a bad idea. He's 19 and can shoot, pass, handle the ball, and plays defense. Does he need to mature and get stronger, sure, but again, he's 19. I like his upside a lot as the type of player you need to build a winning team.