Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion #5: A Serving of Irving?

[BobbieL]

Maybe the Cavs really do have better offers from everyone else, but if that's the case, then I think it's best to walk away.

Giving up Bender in this deal would be a real blow IMO.

I agree - Suns have an offer. Stick with it. I agree, keep Bender over Chriss. I am very comfortable with Bledsoe, Chriss and the Heat pick as well as even sending them the Toronto pick and taking back salary. But to me, I like Benders skill set and want to see how that grows

At this point - if the deal doesn't go through - will be very okay with that. I do think there is the possibility of a deal with the Cavs - if the Suns, after finalizing Len - the Suns might need to reach the cap floor as no way Len deserves more than 6 to 7m, if not 4.5m QO. I could see Frye for a conditional second rounder at some point

[Puff]

Even though it's a lowball offer it's not nothing. He's offering either top-10 pick from from the 16' draft, a solid PG and first rounder. McD must be getting positive intel from Jones.

With the shady stuff McD has been pulling, it wouldnt surprise me if Jones has been DMing Irving on the side. Sure its against the rules, but eh... whos to know? And they were just former teammates like months ago, so who says a friend cant call a friend and say "Hi, whats new?" every once and a while?

Welcome to the McD Grey Zone!

Just want to make it clear that I approve McD ;)

Well, at least the Kyrie talk kept us busy for a few weeks, however, I'm done. Football season is here, desperation time is training camp for Cleveland. After all of the dust-up Kyrie has caused, I dare them bring him back to camp. Lebron won't be the only person that would have issue with him; heck, the city of Cleveland has already put out at video of disgust towards the guy.

Bledsoe, Miami, and Chris not Bender.... take it or leave it. Nothing changes for me. I still can't wait to see Jackson and Booker and Bender play.....and suck at the same time getting a great pick next year.

I just want to enjoy watching my team play, and that doesn't have to and won't involve winning a title in the next few years.....I could care less right now.

Again, I just don't dig being in the wondering and begging situation for players. You are Sun or you are not a Sun. Jackson and Booker and Chriss and Bender are Suns for a long time if the FO wants them to be Suns. If they develop like they can, I think they would want to be Suns too.

Cleveland and Kyrie can jump in a Lake Erie.

QFTMFT

Maybe the Cavs really do have better offers from everyone else, but if that's the case, then I think it's best to walk away.

Giving up Bender in this deal would be a real blow IMO.

Gilbert did this franchise a favor. We get to keep Bender :D

I am sure glad we didn't give up Alex Len after his first year. Of course he was picked at 5 rather than 4.

Yeah, I have high hopes like most for Bender. However if we are honest he looks more like a bust than a legit NBA player at this point in his career. I imagine the Cleveland fans want no part of Bender.

[BobbieL]

Maybe the Cavs really do have better offers from everyone else, but if that's the case, then I think it's best to walk away.

Giving up Bender in this deal would be a real blow IMO.

I agree - Suns have an offer. Stick with it. I agree, keep Bender over Chriss. I am very comfortable with Bledsoe, Chriss and the Heat pick as well as even sending them the Toronto pick and taking back salary. But to me, I like Benders skill set and want to see how that grows

At this point - if the deal doesn't go through - will be very okay with that. I do think there is the possibility of a deal with the Cavs - if the Suns, after finalizing Len - the Suns might need to reach the cap floor as no way Len deserves more than 6 to 7m, if not 4.5m QO. I could see Frye for a conditional second rounder at some point

Just looked, salary cap floor is 89m. Suns are at 92m with a 12m cap hold for Len. If he gets half that. Suns will be at 86m - so Frye not needed. But they could easily take his salary or somebody like - Spencer Hawes also a candidate

[Kerrsed]

Yeah, I have high hopes like most for Bender. However if we are honest he looks more like a bust than a legit NBA player at this point in his career. I imagine the Cleveland fans want no part of Bender.

I wouldnt say that.

Big usually take much longer to develop and we drafted Bender with the understanding that he was really really really raw. 18 years old in his rookie season. I suggest you take a quick read of this (Dont be lazy and just watch the video, READ it!): http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Kristaps-Porzingis--Dragan-Bender-Video-Study-Comparison-5605/

Just to highlight one area of the article for those who cant bother spending the 5 minutes to read the entire thing:

It would be very surprising if Bender stepped into the NBA and began torching the nets the way Porzingis did as a rookie. He's a full year behind Porzingis in age and development, and doesn't have the type of wow factor, scoring ability, or physical tools that Knicks fans and NBA die-hards alike fell in love with.

But Bender has the type of unique combination of size, fluidity, passing ability and shooting potential that should make him a very valuable player in his own right. He may not be the second coming of 36Latvia, but Bender is a lock to go in the top 10 of Thursday's draft, and his ability to grab and go, facilitate, guard the perimeter and make threes at 7'1” will allow him to create his own legacy.

[TeamTragic]

I am sure glad we didn't give up Alex Len after his first year. Of course he was picked at 5 rather than 4.

Yeah, I have high hopes like most for Bender. However if we are honest he looks more like a bust than a legit NBA player at this point in his career. I imagine the Cleveland fans want no part of Bender.

Fixed

[AtheJ415]

Yeah, I have high hopes like most for Bender. However if we are honest he looks more like a bust than a legit NBA player at this point in his career. I imagine the Cleveland fans want no part of Bender.

I wouldnt say that.

Big usually take much longer to develop and we drafted Bender with the understanding that he was really really really raw. 18 years old in his rookie season. I suggest you take a quick read of this (Dont be lazy and just watch the video, READ it!): http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Kristaps-Porzingis--Dragan-Bender-Video-Study-Comparison-5605/

Just to highlight one area of the article for those who cant bother spending the 5 minutes to read the entire thing:

It would be very surprising if Bender stepped into the NBA and began torching the nets the way Porzingis did as a rookie. He's a full year behind Porzingis in age and development, and doesn't have the type of wow factor, scoring ability, or physical tools that Knicks fans and NBA die-hards alike fell in love with.

But Bender has the type of unique combination of size, fluidity, passing ability and shooting potential that should make him a very valuable player in his own right. He may not be the second coming of 36Latvia, but Bender is a lock to go in the top 10 of Thursday's draft, and his ability to grab and go, facilitate, guard the perimeter and make threes at 7'1” will allow him to create his own legacy.

I feel uncomfortable calling somebody a bust at age 23-24, let alone at 19. Bender was an upside pick from day 1. He can be a 7 foot Kirilinko. I don't understand the expectations a lot of fans have for our youngsters. Unless you are a top 100 player of all time, you usually don't walk into the NBA and dominate. You usually don't even walk into the NBA and put up average numbers.

Everyone here loves Booker, who is still at best average. He is amazing for his age, but overall he is average. It is entirely appropriate to see him as a future star, but I will never understand how some LOVE Booker and see him as a future MVP candidate while at the same time blasting our long-term, raw projects like Bender and Chriss. Bender was hurt most of the season and the youngest player in the NBA. He is also a big in terms of size at least, and bigs tend to develop much later than guards.

I can live with trading either of Bender or Chriss in this deal, but I am not of the opinion to judge their futures based on this season. That makes 0 sense to me. Judge them based on their skillsets and athleticism and development relative to age. This jump to judge everyone based off of (1) experience, or (2) typical NBA players, is just so misguided. Buddy Hield couldn't shoot until he was 24. Jimmy Butler was the wing version of Patrick Beverley until 1 offseason where the Bulls wouldn't give him a big deal unless he showed more on offense, and so he became an offensive force in just that 1 offseason at age 24 or 25 and has built from there. Why does everyone assume there won't be great improvement from Bender or Chriss over 5 years given other players' improvement over just 1?

[LukasBMW]

This ain't gonna happen and I'm totally cool with it.

Trust the timeline.

Keep all of our youth and get two top 10 picks in this upcoming (and likely loaded) daft.

Only move I want to make is maybe moving Bledsoe for a youngster.

[LukasBMW]

A lightly protected future first from the Cavs and that Houston pick LA received from HOU is all I would need to do this:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ydzcyjs4

Very interesting dude!

The Cavs reload like WHOA and dump money.

The Clippers get a legit superstar to pair with Blake and they don't miss much at center if Tyson keeps beating the clock.

The Suns get picks and take on salary, but I'd want better potential picks in return.

The Knicks kinda get screwed. I think they'd want more in return even though Melo is dead weight. Fry is expiring but Rivers sucks, TT is a heavy contract, and I doubt they want JR Smith back.

[Walt_Uoob]

This ain't gonna happen and I'm totally cool with it.

Trust the timeline.

Keep all of our youth and get two top 10 picks in this upcoming (and likely loaded) daft.

Only move I want to make is maybe moving Bledsoe for a youngster.

Agreed! And closer to the deadline we might get better offers for Bledsoe and Chandler, particularly if they are healthy and other teams face injuries.

[Moochthemonkey]

I am sure glad we didn't give up Alex Len after his first year. Of course he was picked at 5 rather than 4.

Yeah, I have high hopes like most for Bender. However if we are honest he looks more like a bust than a legit NBA player at this point in his career. I imagine the Cleveland fans want no part of Bender.

Fixed

finally, a clever usage of green font lol

[GoblinytE]

I wonder where Suns Forum Members and friends I guess are at emotionally/opinion concerning the "Serving of Irving" saga...as of Saturday night 8/5/17. A--Roll with Bled/picks..team as is(timeline) //B--They want Kyrie trade to go through(excited) //C--Dont care anymore..something happen already(frustrated) // D--Trade to go through but more afraid of what we're giving up(debbiedowner) // media is trying really hard to make this seem like Cavs are gonna hold on to him but my deal as of tonight is Bledsoe+Warren+Reed+Miami 1st or top5prot.//it sure feels like im wrong right now but I think this is going down tomorrow Sunday or sometime next week lol.

[itlnsunsfan]

We already have a good pg. Kyrie isn't a franchise altering player. Why give up assets for a player that doesn't move the needle?

[Kerrsed]

Im the Debbie Downer with the D: "Want Trade to go through but more afraid of what we're giving up".



But im not REALLY afraid of what it will cost, because i think it will be a lot less than what is being reported out there.

[Kerrsed]

.......and the more i see the Sig i made that Mooch is sporting, the more i start to ponder.

I mean it cant be a coincidence that once the trade talks broke to the media, all of a sudden Booker and Irving started following each other on Instagram. That right there has me believing that Irving wants to be here, and more so that he has been in contact with Booker via DM's.

While the CBA rules state that a FO cant be in contact with another teams players without permission without the consent of that players team, theres no rules against players from talking (Hence why you see guys like IT and Whiteside publicly lobbying for a player to join them). Usually you see this happen in FA and not so much in trades, i know for a fact that it does happen behind the scenes. All it takes is McD talking to Booker, and Booker hitting up Irving. No CBA violation.

And with Booker being in touch with Irving, im sure the question of him wanting to play here has had to come up, and if Irving didnt want to be here, im sure we wouldnt still be pursuing this trade talk a month later.

IDK, that partially why im not that scared to go after Irving or him leaving in 2 years. He has talked about envying Wall and what he has and what he has accomplished (taking a bad team, imprinting himself on it, and making it a playoff contender), and he can do that and help further cement his legacy here.



Thats what i think about every time i see that damn sig! The price just has to be right!

[JMac1]

People calling Bender a bust or implying just because we gave Len a chance, we shouldn't give Bender a chance at 19........wow.

[bwgood77]

Yeah, I have high hopes like most for Bender. However if we are honest he looks more like a bust than a legit NBA player at this point in his career. I imagine the Cleveland fans want no part of Bender.

I wouldnt say that.

Big usually take much longer to develop and we drafted Bender with the understanding that he was really really really raw. 18 years old in his rookie season. I suggest you take a quick read of this (Dont be lazy and just watch the video, READ it!): http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Kristaps-Porzingis--Dragan-Bender-Video-Study-Comparison-5605/

Just to highlight one area of the article for those who cant bother spending the 5 minutes to read the entire thing:

It would be very surprising if Bender stepped into the NBA and began torching the nets the way Porzingis did as a rookie. He's a full year behind Porzingis in age and development, and doesn't have the type of wow factor, scoring ability, or physical tools that Knicks fans and NBA die-hards alike fell in love with.

But Bender has the type of unique combination of size, fluidity, passing ability and shooting potential that should make him a very valuable player in his own right. He may not be the second coming of 36Latvia, but Bender is a lock to go in the top 10 of Thursday's draft, and his ability to grab and go, facilitate, guard the perimeter and make threes at 7'1” will allow him to create his own legacy.

I feel uncomfortable calling somebody a bust at age 23-24, let alone at 19. Bender was an upside pick from day 1. He can be a 7 foot Kirilinko. I don't understand the expectations a lot of fans have for our youngsters. Unless you are a top 100 player of all time, you usually don't walk into the NBA and dominate. You usually don't even walk into the NBA and put up average numbers.

Everyone here loves Booker, who is still at best average. He is amazing for his age, but overall he is average. It is entirely appropriate to see him as a future star, but I will never understand how some LOVE Booker and see him as a future MVP candidate while at the same time blasting our long-term, raw projects like Bender and Chriss. Bender was hurt most of the season and the youngest player in the NBA. He is also a big in terms of size at least, and bigs tend to develop much later than guards.

I can live with trading either of Bender or Chriss in this deal, but I am not of the opinion to judge their futures based on this season. That makes 0 sense to me. Judge them based on their skillsets and athleticism and development relative to age. This jump to judge everyone based off of (1) experience, or (2) typical NBA players, is just so misguided. Buddy Hield couldn't shoot until he was 24. Jimmy Butler was the wing version of Patrick Beverley until 1 offseason where the Bulls wouldn't give him a big deal unless he showed more on offense, and so he became an offensive force in just that 1 offseason at age 24 or 25 and has built from there. Why does everyone assume there won't be great improvement from Bender or Chriss over 5 years given other players' improvement over just 1?

Couldn't agree more. I was really high on Bender at the draft, but didn't expect him to get much time, if any in season one due to his age, adjustments, etc, and I was pretty high on Chriss as well, but also didn't expect much. What I did see from them surpassed my expectations. I think both have such high potential upsides and have a lot of skills.

[GoblinytE]

I know many find brawadis annoying but anyone who is a hardcore fan like myself is cool in my book. Obviously he couldnt out his "DeepThroat" ..but Ill admit I believe His info and when He posted the kyrie/book pic stating soon..I took it as a Wojbomb or when Gambo breaksnews. So to tbh I think Lebron wants Bled and anything else is a plus to save face. I think a deal has already been struck and the past week or two has been the Cavs Media/FO doing research and possible backlash prep. Cavs Media teams getting info out there and getting reporters to do their thing. Some stupid stuff thats getting out. "Booker this and Jackson that.." lol...all this east coast bias is ridiculous...

[bwgood77]

.......and the more i see the Sig i made that Mooch is sporting, the more i start to ponder.

I mean it cant be a coincidence that once the trade talks broke to the media, all of a sudden Booker and Irving started following each other on Instagram. That right there has me believing that Irving wants to be here, and more so that he has been in contact with Booker via DM's.

While the CBA rules state that a FO cant be in contact with another teams players without permission without the consent of that players team, theres no rules against players from talking (Hence why you see guys like IT and Whiteside publicly lobbying for a player to join them). Usually you see this happen in FA and not so much in trades, i know for a fact that it does happen behind the scenes. All it takes is McD talking to Booker, and Booker hitting up Irving. No CBA violation.

And with Booker being in touch with Irving, im sure the question of him wanting to play here has had to come up, and if Irving didnt want to be here, im sure we wouldnt still be pursuing this trade talk a month later.

IDK, that partially why im not that scared to go after Irving or him leaving in 2 years. He has talked about envying Wall and what he has and what he has accomplished (taking a bad team, imprinting himself on it, and making it a playoff contender), and he can do that and help further cement his legacy here.



Thats what i think about every time i see that damn sig! The price just has to be right!

This is all strange. So they start following each other on instagram..fine. Then you state that there isn't a rule about players talking and McD could have told Booker to hit up Irving. Then you jump to the conclusion of "And with Booker being in touch with Irving..."...

Prior to that you said in another post that James Jones may be DMing Irving.

I mean, there is no reason whatsoever for McD or James Jones to do that...that has zero impact on a trade. Even if Irving really did want to be here (if he did he probably would have mentioned us on his list) and talked to everyone in the organization, what does that have to do with Cleveland deciding to trade him to us? If anything, it would run the risk of making us look desperate for reaching out to him and we might lose leverage.

I mean I just don't see a couple of players talking having any impact on anything regarding where he gets traded.

We are still probably the most likely destination. None of that matters. If we really want him, we can probably get him, but I personally would walk away. I think there is zero chance McD or James Jones are secretly trying to communicate with Irving as it really doesn't serve a point, and would be a little ridiculous.

[bwgood77]

I know many find brawadis annoying but anyone who is a hardcore fan like myself is cool in my book. Obviously he couldnt out his "DeepThroat" ..but Ill admit I believe His info and when He posted the kyrie/book pic stating soon..I took it as a Wojbomb or when Gambo breaksnews. So to tbh I think Lebron wants Bled and anything else is a plus to save face. I think a deal has already been struck and the past week or two has been the Cavs Media/FO doing research and possible backlash prep. Cavs Media teams getting info out there and getting reporters to do their thing. Some stupid stuff thats getting out. "Booker this and Jackson that.." lol...all this east coast bias is ridiculous...

I think it's safe to say that many who post on our forum are superfans. To call him a bigger one than many long term fans who post here is a stretch. He probably hasn't even been a fan THAT long, relatively speaking.

There is zero chance this guy has inside info. You think McD is talking to him? There are not leaks in our front office.

He invests a lot of time trying to get followers. I bet he gained quite a few after posting his "inside news".

That's not to say there won't be a trade. I'm sure if there is he will make his claim about being right...even though I think he said it would happen very soon quite a while back.

I mean I think it's safe to say even Booker has no clue about anything regarding the potential trade.

[Christine-In-AZ]

I'm still on board with getting Kyrie, but the more the Cavs seem to want to drag their feet, the more I'm inclined to walk away. The offer of Bledsoe, Miami, Bender is generous (I love me some Bender) and with the Wolves walking away, that's one less option for the Cavs. I'd still have that offer on the table but it can't be a standing offer. We should walk away if the Cavs can't get their **** together.

That said, I would effin hate it if we walked away and the Cavs traded Kyrie for a worse package than what we're offering.

When (hopefully) that happens, I will breath the longest and deepest sigh of relief in the 17,315 and counting, days of my Suns fandom.