NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball

[thamadkant]

Ayton is my target, Doncic, Bagley and Porter are top 3 if all declare. So Ayton is gettable at pick 4.

[Phystic]

Didnt know Sixer's added that protection to the LAL pick. Why exactly did the Celtics make that trade?

But Sixers only get it if it falls outside the top 5 or is the #1 overall pick right? So basically if it's one of the premier top 5 (if Bagley is in draft) there is a pretty good chance Boston gets it. If it's outside the top 5, they probably think it's a big drop off.

But if Boston doesn't end up getting THAT pick, they get the Kings #1 pick in 2019, which will likely be a pretty good pick.

Regardless, the Sixers ultimately will have likely given up a pretty valuable pick to move up from Jackson (or Tatum) to Fultz.

Boston may not have thought Fultz was THAT much better than Jackson/Tatum to where getting that pick was worth moving down 2 spots.

Wait, the Kings pick is contingent on the LAL pick?

[DirtyDez]

Read on Twitter

[bwgood77]

Didnt know Sixer's added that protection to the LAL pick. Why exactly did the Celtics make that trade?

But Sixers only get it if it falls outside the top 5 or is the #1 overall pick right? So basically if it's one of the premier top 5 (if Bagley is in draft) there is a pretty good chance Boston gets it. If it's outside the top 5, they probably think it's a big drop off.

But if Boston doesn't end up getting THAT pick, they get the Kings #1 pick in 2019, which will likely be a pretty good pick.

Regardless, the Sixers ultimately will have likely given up a pretty valuable pick to move up from Jackson (or Tatum) to Fultz.

Boston may not have thought Fultz was THAT much better than Jackson/Tatum to where getting that pick was worth moving down 2 spots.

Wait, the Kings pick is contingent on the LAL pick?

I guess it's a little more complicated than I thought

2018 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
L.A. Lakers' 2018 1st round pick to Philadelphia (via Phoenix) or to Boston (via Phoenix to Philadelphia) protected for selections 1 and 6-30; if this pick falls on any of its protected selections and is therefore retained by Philadelphia, then Boston will instead receive the more favorable of Philadelphia's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 and Sacramento's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 (via Philadelphia) and Philadelphia will receive the less favorable or the protected of these two picks [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012; Milwaukee-Philadelphia-Phoenix, 2/19/2015; Philadelphia-Sacramento, 7/9/2015; Boston-Philadelphia, 6/19/2017]; the 2019 pick conveyance is included in "2019 first round draft pick from Philadelphia or Sacramento" on Boston Incoming

So Boston gets either 2018 Lakers pick if it is 2-5, or the better of Philly/Sac pick in 2019 both protected for #1, but if the better pick ends up being #1, Boston gets the other one. Either way, they should get a decent pick, unless they miss the 2018 one, the Kings pick to Philly ends up #1, and Philly makes the playoffs, so that pick is like 17 or something...then they'd get a low pick..but those outcomes are pretty unlikely.

You can always check the pick details here: https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

[Phystic]

But Sixers only get it if it falls outside the top 5 or is the #1 overall pick right? So basically if it's one of the premier top 5 (if Bagley is in draft) there is a pretty good chance Boston gets it. If it's outside the top 5, they probably think it's a big drop off.

But if Boston doesn't end up getting THAT pick, they get the Kings #1 pick in 2019, which will likely be a pretty good pick.

Regardless, the Sixers ultimately will have likely given up a pretty valuable pick to move up from Jackson (or Tatum) to Fultz.

Boston may not have thought Fultz was THAT much better than Jackson/Tatum to where getting that pick was worth moving down 2 spots.

Wait, the Kings pick is contingent on the LAL pick?

I guess it's a little more complicated than I thought

2018 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
L.A. Lakers' 2018 1st round pick to Philadelphia (via Phoenix) or to Boston (via Phoenix to Philadelphia) protected for selections 1 and 6-30; if this pick falls on any of its protected selections and is therefore retained by Philadelphia, then Boston will instead receive the more favorable of Philadelphia's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 and Sacramento's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 (via Philadelphia) and Philadelphia will receive the less favorable or the protected of these two picks [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012; Milwaukee-Philadelphia-Phoenix, 2/19/2015; Philadelphia-Sacramento, 7/9/2015; Boston-Philadelphia, 6/19/2017]; the 2019 pick conveyance is included in "2019 first round draft pick from Philadelphia or Sacramento" on Boston Incoming

So Boston gets either 2018 Lakers pick if it is 2-5, or the better of Philly/Sac pick in 2019 both protected for #1, but if the better pick ends up being #1, Boston gets the other one. Either way, they should get a decent pick, unless they miss the 2018 one, the Kings pick to Philly ends up #1, and Philly makes the playoffs, so that pick is like 17 or something...then they'd get a low pick..but those outcomes are pretty unlikely.

You can always check the pick details here: https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

Oh alright then. I didnt realize the Kings pick was apart of the deal. thought it was solely the LAL pick with that protection. Was going to say thats pretty weak compensation to move down from the #1 pick

[bwgood77]

Before the millennials in Tucson were old enough to remember, there was Damon Stoudamire. There was Mike Bibby, Jason Terry, Jason Gardner and Reggie Geary.

Legendary coach Lute Olson and Arizona churned them out at such a rapid clip, it was deemed Point Guard U.

However, Tucson has hardly been a haven for calling top-notch point guards home since the turn of the century -- and it's been what has ultimately held Sean Miller back from competing for the school's first national title since 1997.

Now Miller is hoping that will change following Tuesday night's verbal commitment from arguably the best point guard in the country: Jahvon Quinerly (No. 16 in the ESPN 100). He joins Brandon Williams (No. 43) to give the Wildcats two of the nation's best at the position.

With all due respect to T.J. McConnell, the Duquesne transfer who was the heart and soul of two Elite Eight teams in Tucson, it's been a mess at the position -- dating back to before Miller's arrival.

Mustafa Shakur was supposed to make everyone forget about Jason Gardner. Instead, he quickly ended any debate on whether it was he or Chris Paul that was the best point guard in the 2003 Class. Then came Nic Wise, who had a solid career in what wound up being a forgettable era in Arizona basketball.

Miller was forced to scramble after inheriting a depleted roster. First there was Lamont "Momo" Jones and Jordin Mayes.

Josiah Turner was supposed to finally get Arizona on the road back to being Point Guard U, but he was a mess and flamed out after just one season. Miller was forced to bring in one-year Xavier transfer Mark Lyons as a stop-gap.

McConnell directed Arizona to 67 victories in 2014 and 2015 and was hardly the reason why the Wildcats came up just shy of a Final Four appearance, but he had offensive limitations.

Justin Simon was heralded coming out of high school, but after one season two things were apparent: He wasn't a point guard and he wasn't good enough to warrant a lead role at Arizona. He left after his freshman season for St. John's. Kobi Simmons came aboard last season after Miller and the staff were desperate after not landing De'Aaron Fox or Andrew Jones. Simmons departed after a disappointing campaign.

Parker Jackson-Cartwright was ranked by just about everyone as a top 100 player. He's now a senior, but remains the primary obstacle standing between Arizona and a national title. There's a chance Miller could put the ball in the hands of wing Allonzo Trier -- or even Rawle Alkins.

The Wildcats are considered a national title favorite. But most champions have had a high-end point guard running the show. Look at the list: Arizona had Bibby back when it rolled through a trio of No. 1 seeds back in 1997 to win it all. North Carolina's Joel Berry II was the MVP of last year's national championship game. Villanova boasted a pair of point guards two seasons ago with Ryan Arcidiacono and Jalen Brunson. Duke had Tyus Jones in 2015. Shabazz Napier carried UConn in 2014. Peyton Siva did the job for Louisville in 2013. There was Marquis Teague for Kentucky (yes, he was a first-round pick) in 2012. Kemba Walker carried UConn in 2011. Duke converted Jon Scheyer in 2010. Raymond Felton ran the show in 2009 at North Carolina. Kansas had three in 2008 with Mario Chalmers, Russell Robinson and Sherron Collins.

Now Miller is going double-barreled at the point guard position. After landing Williams, a California native and top 50 player who has seen his stock dip while recovering from a knee injury, Miller went to the other coast and secured a pledge on Tuesday night from Quinerly. He is a floor leader out of Hudson Catholic who earned New Jersey player of the year honors as a junior over senior Nick Richards and top 10 junior Naz Reid.

Quinerly is arguably the most complete offensive point guard in the entire class. He can score, is able to make those around him better and also possesses a high basketball IQ.

"Quinerly might wind up being the best college point guard in the class," one head coach who recruited him told ESPN. "Maybe not the highest ceiling, but he's a winner -- and he doesn't have any glaring weaknesses."

Williams is more of a mystery because he didn't play on the summer circuit while continuing to rehab, but he's drawn comparisons to a young Brandon Jennings due to his quickness and ability to thrive in transition. A year ago, Williams played with two of the top big men in the country, DeAndre Ayton and Brandon McCoy, in the summer. He was more of a distributor until McCoy got hurt -- and that's when he displayed his scoring ability.

"Williams is super-talented," another coach said. "He has crazy upside. And if he was healthy, we'd be talking about him among the best point guards in the country. But no one saw him this past summer. So it's out of sight, out of mind -- and that's why his stock has dropped."

Miller isn't the only one excited about putting two high-end point guards on the floor together. Williams told ESPN that there's no concern on his end about Arizona adding Quinerly. In fact, he welcomes the prospect of playing alongside another point guard in what has become a position-less game. He and Quinerly have been communicating about forming one of the best backcourts in the country.

The hope is to put both Quinerly and Williams on the court together, and watch each make plays for themselves and for others. This also gives Miller some leeway in case one of them doesn't live up to the expectations -- as was the case with Turner and Simmons.

But there's optimism in Tucson that Quinerly and Williams will not only be able to re-ignite what was once considered the ultimate destination for elite point guards, but also help get Arizona back to the Final Four for the first time in nearly two decades.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/insider/story/_/id/20292477/jahvon-quinerly-gives-arizona-wildcats-sean-miller-point-guard-program-needs

[DirtyDez]

Spoiler:

Before the millennials in Tucson were old enough to remember, there was Damon Stoudamire. There was Mike Bibby, Jason Terry, Jason Gardner and Reggie Geary.

Legendary coach Lute Olson and Arizona churned them out at such a rapid clip, it was deemed Point Guard U.

However, Tucson has hardly been a haven for calling top-notch point guards home since the turn of the century -- and it's been what has ultimately held Sean Miller back from competing for the school's first national title since 1997.

Now Miller is hoping that will change following Tuesday night's verbal commitment from arguably the best point guard in the country: Jahvon Quinerly (No. 16 in the ESPN 100). He joins Brandon Williams (No. 43) to give the Wildcats two of the nation's best at the position.

With all due respect to T.J. McConnell, the Duquesne transfer who was the heart and soul of two Elite Eight teams in Tucson, it's been a mess at the position -- dating back to before Miller's arrival.

Mustafa Shakur was supposed to make everyone forget about Jason Gardner. Instead, he quickly ended any debate on whether it was he or Chris Paul that was the best point guard in the 2003 Class. Then came Nic Wise, who had a solid career in what wound up being a forgettable era in Arizona basketball.

Miller was forced to scramble after inheriting a depleted roster. First there was Lamont "Momo" Jones and Jordin Mayes.

Josiah Turner was supposed to finally get Arizona on the road back to being Point Guard U, but he was a mess and flamed out after just one season. Miller was forced to bring in one-year Xavier transfer Mark Lyons as a stop-gap.

McConnell directed Arizona to 67 victories in 2014 and 2015 and was hardly the reason why the Wildcats came up just shy of a Final Four appearance, but he had offensive limitations.

Justin Simon was heralded coming out of high school, but after one season two things were apparent: He wasn't a point guard and he wasn't good enough to warrant a lead role at Arizona. He left after his freshman season for St. John's. Kobi Simmons came aboard last season after Miller and the staff were desperate after not landing De'Aaron Fox or Andrew Jones. Simmons departed after a disappointing campaign.

Parker Jackson-Cartwright was ranked by just about everyone as a top 100 player. He's now a senior, but remains the primary obstacle standing between Arizona and a national title. There's a chance Miller could put the ball in the hands of wing Allonzo Trier -- or even Rawle Alkins.

The Wildcats are considered a national title favorite. But most champions have had a high-end point guard running the show. Look at the list: Arizona had Bibby back when it rolled through a trio of No. 1 seeds back in 1997 to win it all. North Carolina's Joel Berry II was the MVP of last year's national championship game. Villanova boasted a pair of point guards two seasons ago with Ryan Arcidiacono and Jalen Brunson. Duke had Tyus Jones in 2015. Shabazz Napier carried UConn in 2014. Peyton Siva did the job for Louisville in 2013. There was Marquis Teague for Kentucky (yes, he was a first-round pick) in 2012. Kemba Walker carried UConn in 2011. Duke converted Jon Scheyer in 2010. Raymond Felton ran the show in 2009 at North Carolina. Kansas had three in 2008 with Mario Chalmers, Russell Robinson and Sherron Collins.

Now Miller is going double-barreled at the point guard position. After landing Williams, a California native and top 50 player who has seen his stock dip while recovering from a knee injury, Miller went to the other coast and secured a pledge on Tuesday night from Quinerly. He is a floor leader out of Hudson Catholic who earned New Jersey player of the year honors as a junior over senior Nick Richards and top 10 junior Naz Reid.

Quinerly is arguably the most complete offensive point guard in the entire class. He can score, is able to make those around him better and also possesses a high basketball IQ.

"Quinerly might wind up being the best college point guard in the class," one head coach who recruited him told ESPN. "Maybe not the highest ceiling, but he's a winner -- and he doesn't have any glaring weaknesses."

Williams is more of a mystery because he didn't play on the summer circuit while continuing to rehab, but he's drawn comparisons to a young Brandon Jennings due to his quickness and ability to thrive in transition. A year ago, Williams played with two of the top big men in the country, DeAndre Ayton and Brandon McCoy, in the summer. He was more of a distributor until McCoy got hurt -- and that's when he displayed his scoring ability.

"Williams is super-talented," another coach said. "He has crazy upside. And if he was healthy, we'd be talking about him among the best point guards in the country. But no one saw him this past summer. So it's out of sight, out of mind -- and that's why his stock has dropped."

Miller isn't the only one excited about putting two high-end point guards on the floor together. Williams told ESPN that there's no concern on his end about Arizona adding Quinerly. In fact, he welcomes the prospect of playing alongside another point guard in what has become a position-less game. He and Quinerly have been communicating about forming one of the best backcourts in the country.

The hope is to put both Quinerly and Williams on the court together, and watch each make plays for themselves and for others. This also gives Miller some leeway in case one of them doesn't live up to the expectations -- as was the case with Turner and Simmons.

But there's optimism in Tucson that Quinerly and Williams will not only be able to re-ignite what was once considered the ultimate destination for elite point guards, but also help get Arizona back to the Final Four for the first time in nearly two decades.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/insider/story/_/id/20292477/jahvon-quinerly-gives-arizona-wildcats-sean-miller-point-guard-program-needs

I actually remember the Mustafa/CP3 debate back in the day.

Surprised Goodman didn't mention Bayless. He came in as a top-5 player thinking Lute would be coaching him and ended up with Kevin O'Neill. Brandon Jennings also bailed overseas.

Jennings
Bayless
Budinger
Horne
Hill

****!

[ATTL]

Watch on YouTube

Doncic against Croatia, I can see why there are those saying he's the best euro prospect ever. He's not just potential or doing well against his age group.

[kennydorglas]

Bagley will announce tomorrow.
247sports has him going to Duke? lol

[bwgood77]

Bagley will announce tomorrow.
247sports has him going to Duke? lol

That sucks. West coast guy going to Duke? Growing up in Tempe, I wonder if he's a Suns fan at all.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Is he confirmed eligible?

[In2ition]

Bagley will announce tomorrow.
247sports has him going to Duke? lol

That sucks. West coast guy going to Duke? Growing up in Tempe, I wonder if he's a Suns fan at all.

His dad grew up in Durham. He has family there. He's probably a Suns fan, used to play in the Jr. Suns leagues, but they haven't been good in a long time, so who knows.

[ATTL]

Bagley about to announce his decision. I hope he uses the "taking his talents" line.

Edit:
Reclassifying and going to Duke, this draft is going to be **** great at the top. I was hoping for a pac12 school to get him to see him play Ayton a few times.

[noelphx]

If there was ever a time for the NBA God's to give us an and 1 this season would be it. A local star who could be with his hometown team (technically)

[darealjuice]

Wow Duke's stacked this year. Good year for us to suck, I'd be glad to take any of Bagley, Porter, Doncic, Ayton, and Bamba.

[kennydorglas]

It'd be fun to keep him in AZ his whole life. Let's hope it's just a year thing ))))))

Yeah, this draft will be stacked up front.

[DirtyDez]

This draft is officially bonkers but the Suns aren't tanking this year. Booker going into his 3rd season, Warren 4th and Bender/Chriss/Ulis their 2nd. Plus they're not sitting Bled again after last year. The West is tough but Dallas, LA/Sac should be pretty bad and the East has some more bottom feeders this year.

[King4Day]

This is Woj's early 2018 draft predictions. He also places teams where he thinks they'll pick.
It makes me sick to think the C's can, AGAIN, get another elite prospect thanks to that Nets trade (He has them getting Bagley @ 2). I really hope Brooklyn shocks people and fights for a playoff spot.

4. Phoenix Suns

Luka Doncic
Real Madrid
Age: 18
SG

Doncic posted historic numbers in the Euroleague, Spanish ACB for a 17-year old, thanks to an incredibly high basketball IQ and polished skill set that allows him to play both backcourt positions. He will now be asked to take his game to the next level, as he's finally NBA draft-eligible, which won't be an easy task. Scouts wonder if he's athletic enough to guard his position and create his own shot quite as seamlessly in the NBA as he does in Europe.

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/20343849/2018-nba-mock-draft-michael-porter-marvin-bagley-luka-doncic-more

[bwgood77]

This is Woj's early 2018 draft predictions. He also places teams where he thinks they'll pick.
It makes me sick to think the C's can, AGAIN, get another elite prospect thanks to that Nets trade (He has them getting Bagley @ 2). I really hope Brooklyn shocks people and fights for a playoff spot.

4. Phoenix Suns

Luka Doncic
Real Madrid
Age: 18
SG

Doncic posted historic numbers in the Euroleague, Spanish ACB for a 17-year old, thanks to an incredibly high basketball IQ and polished skill set that allows him to play both backcourt positions. He will now be asked to take his game to the next level, as he's finally NBA draft-eligible, which won't be an easy task. Scouts wonder if he's athletic enough to guard his position and create his own shot quite as seamlessly in the NBA as he does in Europe.

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/20343849/2018-nba-mock-draft-michael-porter-marvin-bagley-luka-doncic-more

To make it worse, they get the Lakers pick (the one we traded for Knight) if it falls between 2 and 5, so they could end up with like Bagley AND Doncic or something.

[In2ition]

This is Woj's early 2018 draft predictions. He also places teams where he thinks they'll pick.
It makes me sick to think the C's can, AGAIN, get another elite prospect thanks to that Nets trade (He has them getting Bagley @ 2). I really hope Brooklyn shocks people and fights for a playoff spot.

4. Phoenix Suns

Luka Doncic
Real Madrid
Age: 18
SG

Doncic posted historic numbers in the Euroleague, Spanish ACB for a 17-year old, thanks to an incredibly high basketball IQ and polished skill set that allows him to play both backcourt positions. He will now be asked to take his game to the next level, as he's finally NBA draft-eligible, which won't be an easy task. Scouts wonder if he's athletic enough to guard his position and create his own shot quite as seamlessly in the NBA as he does in Europe.

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/20343849/2018-nba-mock-draft-michael-porter-marvin-bagley-luka-doncic-more

To make it worse, they get the Lakers pick (the one we traded for Knight) if it falls between 2 and 5, so they could end up with like Bagley AND Doncic or something.

I hope they don't get two top 5 picks. That would be salt in the wounds.