Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion #5: A Serving of Irving?

[Moochthemonkey]

CLE in: Bledsoe, Warren, Chriss
CLE out: Irving

PHX in: Irving, Capela, Anderson
PHX out: Bledsoe, Warren, Chriss, Bender, Chandler

HOU in: Jordan
HOU out: Capela, Anderson, HOU 2020 1st

LAC in: Bender, Chandler, HOU 2020 1st (maybe?)
LAC out: Jordan

What do you guys think?

Warren, Chriss, Bender

I wouldn't even trade those three guys if it meant we got all the incoming players in that trade (Capela, Anderson, HOU 2020 1st (most likely 20-30 range), Irving, Jordan). basically that would be trading away 3/5 of our most valuable guys to become a 8-10 seed with even more money on the books (Anderson's contract is longer and more expensive than Chandler's)

[Sunzgunz]

It's odd that all of the trade rumors over the past two days have removed either bender or Miami's pick.

Has trade value already developed rust?

Are the suns starting these rumors so Cleveland will panic and try to renegotiate with the previous offer (Bledsoe, bender and Miami pick)?

Who knows, but Cleveland may want to show some urgency, they could be one bad bron or kyrie tweet away from reduced value.

Their back is up against the wall, almost feel bad, usually they could just say tuff and wait it out if incoming value was insufficient. But this being bron contract year on a team in which any short that making the finals is nearly disastrous, not sure this is the year they can wait and take chemistry chances.

[TeamTragic]

It's odd that all of the trade rumors over the past two days have removed either bender or Miami's pick.

Has trade value already developed rust?

Are the suns starting these rumors so Cleveland will panic and try to renegotiate with the previous offer (Bledsoe, bender and Miami pick)?

Who knows, but Cleveland may want to show some urgency, they could be one bad bron or kyrie tweet away from reduced value.

Their back is up against the wall, almost feel bad, usually they could just say tuff and wait it out if incoming value was insufficient. But this being bron contract year on a team in which any short that making the finals is nearly disastrous, not sure this is the year they can wait and take chemistry chances.

How do you mean? They can get Jordan/Rivers

[RaisingArizona]

CLE in: Bledsoe, Warren, Chriss
CLE out: Irving

PHX in: Irving, Capela, Anderson
PHX out: Bledsoe, Warren, Chriss, Bender, Chandler

HOU in: Jordan
HOU out: Capela, Anderson, HOU 2020 1st

LAC in: Bender, Chandler, HOU 2020 1st (maybe?)
LAC out: Jordan

What do you guys think?

[SideSwipe]

Read on Twitter

Dare I say...Kirilenko-esque...

If Bender turns into a 7'1" version of prime Kirilenko, he will be every bit worth the #4 pick that we spent on him. Not positive that's his trajectory yet, but its not a bad goal.

[NavLDO]

CLE in: Bledsoe, Warren, Chriss
CLE out: Irving

PHX in: Irving, Capela, Anderson
PHX out: Bledsoe, Warren, Chriss, Bender, Chandler

HOU in: Jordan
HOU out: Capela, Anderson, HOU 2020 1st

LAC in: Bender, Chandler, HOU 2020 1st (maybe?)
LAC out: Jordan

What do you guys think?

Wow.
Caepla and Anderson do nothing for me. So it's basically Bledsoe, Warren, Chriss, Bender for Irving which is the biggest overpay ever.

So we trading our Bad Contract (16.6 PER) for Houston's, a 29YO has-been (13.6 PER)--and Houston's is worse...by a year and $7M?
Now, Capela DOES interest me, and I would take him for, say, Warren's the best of the bunch that's left.
Then Irving for Bledsoe.
Which leaves us paying Chriss and Bender and the 'lopsided' portion of of the Anderson-for-Chandler swap, so we can acquire Irving?

I know that's not how you have it set up, but really, for us, it's simply: Who's leaving, and who's coming back. and in this scenario, our entire 2016 top-10 draft class is being traded. That's way too much on our end.

One possible way to even it out would be...I would want another young prospect from one of those teams coming back. I would want, in order, either Montrezl Harrell, Chinanu Onuaku, or Brice Johnson coming back, and the other teams can figure out the compensation to make that happen. I still don't like it, mind you, but at least it would make it some what more balanced; I'd also want to trade Knight for a 'similarly priced' working player, but that would be too much, I presume.

[Frank Lee]

I dont think we are trading anyone. McD put his offer out and thats it. Take it or leave it. If he was hell bent on making changes he would have went all in on George or Butler. I imagine he did the same with them... a reasonable offer, but not one bit more.

The major off season adjustment period is over except for a few more minor signings. You can tell... for players are now inking up with China and foreign lot. (Poor DMO ) I think McD had two paths to take. The first one was try for a big name stud...then add to that... the second, stand pat and circle the wagons. May be explore any opportunity that comes up. There's not much else he can do, or at least is willing to do. He's invested in 4-5 young guys. Lets hope for a 3 out of 5 positive return. The check book will open up again next year. Eventually we'll get a taker.

Kyrie is definitely a top tiered player, but to me, he is a slightly better lateral move replacing Bled. In two years they both could be gone, or absorbing 25% of our payroll I dont know if I am going to be able to stand the excessive contracts coupled with the glad assing inter-team camaraderie these players show. Im all for maxing out your income, but the league is going down a treacherous all or nothing pathway with wealth disparity equal to that of the real world.

[Sunzgunz]

It's odd that all of the trade rumors over the past two days have removed either bender or Miami's pick.

Has trade value already developed rust?

Are the suns starting these rumors so Cleveland will panic and try to renegotiate with the previous offer (Bledsoe, bender and Miami pick)?

Who knows, but Cleveland may want to show some urgency, they could be one bad bron or kyrie tweet away from reduced value.

Their back is up against the wall, almost feel bad, usually they could just say tuff and wait it out if incoming value was insufficient. But this being bron contract year on a team in which any short that making the finals is nearly disastrous, not sure this is the year they can wait and take chemistry chances.

How do you mean? They can get Jordan/Rivers

Yeah, that's kind of my point. 3 to 4 weeks ago we would have got laughed at for suggesting Jordan and rivers in a trade.

If that's truly the best they have, im not even offering bender or the pick (whichever we were offering for kyrie)

Bledsoe (statistically on par with Kyrie last year)
Chandler (statistically on par w/ Jordan, best of clip trade, ...a dying style to boot)

Which our to do it. Bled and bender, or bled and pick definitely do it.

[Saberestar]

If it is true that DeAndre Jordan and Rivers are available for Irving that is a solid offer.

IDK if people are sleeping about Jordan, he is a nightmare defensively and on the boards. All Star on the East for sure.

Rivers is a meh, but he is not worse than Shumpert.

Irving/Shumpert for DeAndre/Rivers/Future First.

[Saberestar]

It's odd that all of the trade rumors over the past two days have removed either bender or Miami's pick.

Has trade value already developed rust?

Are the suns starting these rumors so Cleveland will panic and try to renegotiate with the previous offer (Bledsoe, bender and Miami pick)?

Who knows, but Cleveland may want to show some urgency, they could be one bad bron or kyrie tweet away from reduced value.

Their back is up against the wall, almost feel bad, usually they could just say tuff and wait it out if incoming value was insufficient. But this being bron contract year on a team in which any short that making the finals is nearly disastrous, not sure this is the year they can wait and take chemistry chances.

How do you mean? They can get Jordan/Rivers

Yeah, that's kind of my point. 3 to 4 weeks ago we would have got laughed at for suggesting Jordan and rivers in a trade.

If that's truly the best they have, im not even offering bender or the pick (whichever we were offering for kyrie)

Bledsoe (statistically on par with Kyrie last year)
Chandler (statistically on par w/ Jordan, best of clip trade, ...a dying style to boot)

Which our to do it. Bled and bender, or bled and pick definitely do it.

Bledsoe and Irving are not on the same tier. I do not even care about their stats, it is so obvious.

Chandler and Jordan are comparable??
Chandler is old and he does not protect the rim AT ALL.
So much difference. They are on different worlds.

[BobbieL]

I don't see the value for the Cavs in doing this however

Bledsoe Heat pick for Kyrie. Do not think it needs to be many more future picks. Maybe 2019 protected. That 2018 Suns pick is OFF the table unless protected to 10. Too many good players in this next draft. I still want Kyrie to NYC and Frank N to phoenix with the contracts (not Lee but Thomas, Kuzm) that make it work

Gambo mentioned he heard Austin Rivers and Jordan for Kyrie (I think the Cavs would have to add salary like Frye/RJ or Shumpert). I stopped listening as I got home but the last thing he said was the Suns would just do nothing, hang around and see if the price changes to their liking - or something to that affect

When in the broadcast did gambo mention the clips rumor? Like which hour? Thanks.

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It was the last 15 minutes at 545. I had an appointment to get too so I left the house at 345 and heard like three segments: one they talked fantasy football on the Cardinals - so listen r in Gambos voice "on the Cardinals David Johnson is 1 in terms of points, Fitzgerald is 2 most who is third - its not Palmer, its not John Brown, its not JJ Nelson, its the defense. So its Johnson, Fitzgerald, not Palmer or a WR but the defense " and by the way " the Cardinals like to give the ball to David JOhnson inside the 5. Last year, they gave him the ball 22 times inside the 5. So inside the 5, the Cardinals like to give the ball to Johnson, 22 times last year." ( I swear to go he said that - said the same thing four times )

One segment on the Dbacks and how important this series was with the Dodgers. And one on the Cardinals CB battle. And going home, heard the segment again on fantasy football, again on the Dbacks series and finally getting home around 545 - they talked Kyrie

[Waylay13]

Bledsoe and Irving are not on the same tier. I do not even care about their stats, it is so obvious.

I agree that Bledsoe puts up his stats without having one of the all time best players of all time to draw attention away from himself.

[oddity]

How do you mean? They can get Jordan/Rivers

Yeah, that's kind of my point. 3 to 4 weeks ago we would have got laughed at for suggesting Jordan and rivers in a trade.

If that's truly the best they have, im not even offering bender or the pick (whichever we were offering for kyrie)

Bledsoe (statistically on par with Kyrie last year)
Chandler (statistically on par w/ Jordan, best of clip trade, ...a dying style to boot)

Which our to do it. Bled and bender, or bled and pick definitely do it.

Bledsoe and Irving are not on the same tier. I do not even care about their stats, it is so obvious.

Chandler and Jordan are comparable??
Chandler is old and he does not protect the rim AT ALL.
So much difference. They are on different worlds.

Hell no that's not a solid offer. Replace Kyrie w Jordan and I guarantee the offense swan dives. Meanwhile, the Cavs don't seriously need more rebounding to the extent that they would trade their all star point guard for a glass cleaner. And who's gonna play point for them next season? Austin Rivers?! Ugh just thinking about the possibility of this trade makes me feel sick for Cavs fans.

[jredsaz]

I can only imagine LeBron playing with Rivers. 1) LeBron hates his Dad. 2) The first time Austin Rivers pulls and Austin Rivers type move (15 seconds of dribbling followwd by a turnover) LeBron will lose his mind and demand that the kid gets traded.

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[Mulhollanddrive]

I'd still say we have highest bid of Bledsoe, Warren, Pick ahead of Jordan, Rivers, Pick.

[King4Day]

I'd still say we have highest bid of Bledsoe, Warren, Pick ahead of Jordan, Rivers, Pick.

That's IF Warren is on the table. Jordan and Rivers doesn't give the Cavs what they want in a young player for the future (Rivers is not that guy).
I def agree we have them beat in terms of an offer.

[King4Day]

I wonder if the Cavs would have traded Irving for Chris Paul had the trade request come out a week or 2 later. I'm sure Paul committing to the Cavs (as long as LeBron did) would make LeBron do the same thing.

[BobbieL]

I'd still say we have highest bid of Bledsoe, Warren, Pick ahead of Jordan, Rivers, Pick.

That's IF Warren is on the table. Jordan and Rivers doesn't give the Cavs what they want in a young player for the future (Rivers is not that guy).
I def agree we have them beat in terms of an offer.

First, I am still not sure I want Kyrie just because of how he fits with Booker and he can opt out. But if the trade is made - the team will be more exciting. I still would prefer Frank N of course, longer term. But that being said, the Suns check a lot of boxes with the Cavs. I don't think Jordan/Rivers helps them one bit. Rivers stinks and Jordan can't be on the floor in the last four minutes of the game. Plus who does he guard when the Warriors have their best unit on the court. Granted, Chandler can't either. Jordan helps them win the East - not the Title.

If LeBron wants "mini-LeBron" - the Suns and Cavs will find an equitable trade. We all know what it will be - young forward, Heat pick, possibly a second rounder and taking on bad contract. The Suns value is checking the boxes - adding many pieces to the trade.

[Jarlaxle0204]

I agree that Bledsoe puts up his stats without having one of the all time best players of all time to draw attention away from himself.

That's not entirely true. Bledsoe is already playing with Devin Booker.

[jredsaz]

I'd still say we have highest bid of Bledsoe, Warren, Pick ahead of Jordan, Rivers, Pick.

That's IF Warren is on the table. Jordan and Rivers doesn't give the Cavs what they want in a young player for the future (Rivers is not that guy).
I def agree we have them beat in terms of an offer.

But I don't see that as clearly one way or the other. That's what happens when a blue chip piece isn't added. It could turn out the Cavs value Jordan significantly more than Bledsoe. Without a blue chip prospect to stand out all value is subjective because in the end their isn't a significant difference in the value being offered.

I am calling it the "Buddy Heild Paradigm" Lol

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