Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

[LivingLegend]

Lightning doesnt strike the same spot twice, amirite Cavs fans?

"I always believed that I’d return to Cleveland and finish my career there. I just didn’t know when"--LeBron letter.

“I love it here in Cleveland. I have no intentions of leaving,” James told ESPN during the Cavaliers’ championship parade. “There are some technicalities to take care of I’ll leave up to my agent. That’s right from the horse’s mouth.”."--Lebron during championship parade

[LivingLegend]

You really don't know what LeBron is going to do. LeBron doesn't know what he is going to do in FA a year from now.

The players and assets that the Cavs trade for Irving is going to have big impact on his decision though. Or if they keep Irving, that could sway LeBron one way or another also. It will be very interesting if the Cavs too will bolt on LeBron and acquire more long term picks seeing how they don't have a first round pick for a couple of years or if they will completely commit to him and spend more of their trade value on win now players.

I can see why Cavs would be hedging with this Win now + blue chip + pick proposition, but I kinda wish they took a firmer stance one way or the other.

Unfortuantly they dont have that option. With everything in limbo now and the only thing guaranteed is 1 more title run with LeBron--you HAVE to make sure you get a piece for both sides in a Kyrie trade. You cant just trade for a win now player then be screwed when he leaves or wants to be traded if LeBron leaves left with zero young talent and you cant just trade for a blue chip prospect because you have to get strong immediate impact type players in hopes to convince LeBron to say.

Meanwhile Kevin Love is over here like:

[Seabass11]

Way too much for Kyrie. Kyrie is an awesome player but can't blow all that for him. IT, Crowder, and one of the 2017 picks would be the max they could get.

Sure but does Ainge want to give IT the max next summer? He'd be getting a younger (and IMO better) player on a better contract for at least the next 2 years. Plus Griffin is letting it leak that Kyrie would most likely re-sign in BOS so likely beyond that. Versus Boston needing to either give IT the max or seeing him walk.

In return, CLE would be getting a potential 1 year rental of IT. I don't think it would be too crazy to ask for a pick and either Brown/Tatum in return.

Think Ainge is gunning for Davis in a year or two and we'll need those guys to get him, Kyrie isn't the superstar that puts us into contention. Jaylen, pick (likely), and Tatum are all going to be awesome assets. Not gonna give up more than one of them.

Fair enough I suppose. I will say though, all we here is how Ainge is saving up assets for Player X and then the opportunity arises aaaaand its gone. And Player X ends up on another team. Eventually he has to pull the trigger somewhere. I'm not going to try to read what Ainge is thinking I can only speak on why this move might benefit him

[Seabass11]

Way too much for Kyrie. Kyrie is an awesome player but can't blow all that for him. IT, Crowder, and one of the 2017 picks would be the max they could get.

Sure but does Ainge want to give IT the max next summer? He'd be getting a younger (and IMO better) player on a better contract for at least the next 2 years. Plus Griffin is letting it leak that Kyrie would most likely re-sign in BOS so likely beyond that. Versus Boston needing to either give IT the max or seeing him walk.

In return, CLE would be getting a potential 1 year rental of IT. I don't think it would be too crazy to ask for a pick and either Brown/Tatum in return.

IT is Boston's problem. The Cavs shouldn't make him their problem. Cavs shouldn't even be talking to Boston tbh.

Would he be a problem for us though? If LeBron leaves then let IT walk too and start the rebuild. If leBron stays then I think IT would be a great sidekick to have with him and Love. Defense would be pretty damn bad unless we could get someone like Crowder and maybe Brown back with him but I really don't see much of a downside for us.

[MotownMadness]

Lightning doesnt strike the same spot twice, amirite Cavs fans?

"I always believed that I’d return to Cleveland and finish my career there. I just didn’t know when"--LeBron letter.

“I love it here in Cleveland. I have no intentions of leaving,” James told ESPN during the Cavaliers’ championship parade. “There are some technicalities to take care of I’ll leave up to my agent. That’s right from the horse’s mouth.”."--Lebron during championship parade

Yeah I highly doubt he leaves like that again. The City just means too much to him and he rebuilt his legacy coming back. He's getting older and should be pretty comfortable there now.

[LivingLegend]

Lightning doesnt strike the same spot twice, amirite Cavs fans?

"I always believed that I’d return to Cleveland and finish my career there. I just didn’t know when"--LeBron letter.

“I love it here in Cleveland. I have no intentions of leaving,” James told ESPN during the Cavaliers’ championship parade. “There are some technicalities to take care of I’ll leave up to my agent. That’s right from the horse’s mouth.”."--Lebron during championship parade

Yeah I highly doubt he leaves like that again. The City just means too much to him and he rebuilt his legacy coming back. He's getting older and should be pretty comfortable there now.

Exactly, but people always want to write narrarives and unfortunatly this is what happens when people sign 2-3 year deals at a time. Every other years its a new discussion and theories trying to link LeBron to different teams, it is what it is. Personally after hearing him say multiple quotes in the past 3 years about staying in CLE, I think there is a heavy chance he does especially when you consider he has not given a single indication or came out with any sort of cryptic messages that he will be leaving. The idea that hes leaving is purely and 100% based in fan/analyst opinion out of sheer offseason boredom with 0 sources.

You can play connect the dots all you want because 'he has a house in LA!" He has owned that house for 3 years now. Where was all of the LeBrons going to LA because he owns a 3rd house there back when he first bought it.

[Vee-Rex]

I mean... I'm not gonna say LeBron is staying. But the people saying "he's definitely gone" are acting like drama queens. No one knows what he's doing because he doesn't know.

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[True Story]

Lebron has left two teams in 8 years.

At this point him leaving is more likely than unlikely and the numbers are not in your favor Cavs fans.

[True Story]

The only one controlling the narrative is Lebron, he is a team assembling ring chaser, he doesnt earn them the old fashioned way.

[jbk1234]

Sure but does Ainge want to give IT the max next summer? He'd be getting a younger (and IMO better) player on a better contract for at least the next 2 years. Plus Griffin is letting it leak that Kyrie would most likely re-sign in BOS so likely beyond that. Versus Boston needing to either give IT the max or seeing him walk.

In return, CLE would be getting a potential 1 year rental of IT. I don't think it would be too crazy to ask for a pick and either Brown/Tatum in return.

IT is Boston's problem. The Cavs shouldn't make him their problem. Cavs shouldn't even be talking to Boston tbh.

Would he be a problem for us though? If LeBron leaves then let IT walk too and start the rebuild. If leBron stays then I think IT would be a great sidekick to have with him and Love. Defense would be pretty damn bad unless we could get someone like Crowder and maybe Brown back with him but I really don't see much of a downside for us.

First off, I'd be far more worried about a situation where LBJ opts in for a single year and then pressures the F.O. to hand IT a max deal. Setting that aside, if the Cavs were to treat IT as a rental, then my preference would be to explain to Kyrie that we have every intention of trading him for the best pick we can get next summer, but that we expect him to play this year.

[LarryBirdsFingr]

The chances of a deal between cleveland and boston are so slim.

[MotownMadness]

The chances of a deal between cleveland and boston are so slim.

Yeah realistically they just gain gettin a younger version of IT and probably have to give up one of their good assets to do it causing them to lose more than they gain.

[robbie84]

Lebron has left two teams in 8 years.

At this point him leaving is more likely than unlikely and the numbers are not in your favor Cavs fans.

actually the odds of him leaving Cleveland again are far lower than leaving for another team considering the hate he received for leaving the first time, and the subsequent love he received for going back 'home'. The only way he leaves is if somehow the Cavs lose Kyrie for nothing or they end up as a team that won't be competing for the ECF, which is extremely unlikely.

Cavs are like 75%+ favorites to retain Lebron.

Where is he going that gives him a better chance of winning anyway if he leaves?

[TommyPoints]

Lebron has left two teams in 8 years.

At this point him leaving is more likely than unlikely and the numbers are not in your favor Cavs fans.

actually the odds of him leaving Cleveland again are far lower than leaving for another team considering the hate he received for leaving the first time, and the subsequent love he received for going back 'home'. The only way he leaves is if somehow the Cavs lose Kyrie for nothing or they end up as a team that won't be competing for the ECF, which is extremely unlikely.

Cavs are like 75%+ favorites to retain Lebron.

Where is he going that gives him a better chance of winning anyway if he leaves?

Boston. Duh.

[True Story]

Lebron has left two teams in 8 years.

At this point him leaving is more likely than unlikely and the numbers are not in your favor Cavs fans.

actually the odds of him leaving Cleveland again are far lower than leaving for another team considering the hate he received for leaving the first time, and the subsequent love he received for going back 'home'. The only way he leaves is if somehow the Cavs lose Kyrie for nothing or they end up as a team that won't be competing for the ECF, which is extremely unlikely.

Cavs are like 75%+ favorites to retain Lebron.

Where is he going that gives him a better chance of winning anyway if he leaves?

How accurate is that 75% and what data is this based off of?

[robbie84]

Lebron has left two teams in 8 years.

At this point him leaving is more likely than unlikely and the numbers are not in your favor Cavs fans.

actually the odds of him leaving Cleveland again are far lower than leaving for another team considering the hate he received for leaving the first time, and the subsequent love he received for going back 'home'. The only way he leaves is if somehow the Cavs lose Kyrie for nothing or they end up as a team that won't be competing for the ECF, which is extremely unlikely.

Cavs are like 75%+ favorites to retain Lebron.

Where is he going that gives him a better chance of winning anyway if he leaves?

How accurate is that 75% and what data is this based off of?

It's an educated guess using logic- not confirmation bias like your assumption.

[LivingLegend]

The chances of a deal between cleveland and boston are so slim.

Agree, it doesnt make sense for the Cavs to give Kyrie to the only real threat they have in the East. On the other hand, Ainge seems to value his assets completely different than others perceive them.

Almost like a friend you play fantasy football with who is impossible to trade with because they will forever think the player they have is worth 3x the amount of what your offering--then turn around and offer you Duke Johnson and Danny Amendola for Drew Brees and say "What!? Cmon thats a great deal! Im giving you 2!! and Brees isnt that good anymore man hes old let me tell ya the falloff is about to happen. If anything Im taking all the risk here and doing you a favor"

[axeman23]

Sure but does Ainge want to give IT the max next summer? He'd be getting a younger (and IMO better) player on a better contract for at least the next 2 years. Plus Griffin is letting it leak that Kyrie would most likely re-sign in BOS so likely beyond that. Versus Boston needing to either give IT the max or seeing him walk.

In return, CLE would be getting a potential 1 year rental of IT. I don't think it would be too crazy to ask for a pick and either Brown/Tatum in return.

IT is Boston's problem. The Cavs shouldn't make him their problem. Cavs shouldn't even be talking to Boston tbh.

Would he be a problem for us though? If LeBron leaves then let IT walk too and start the rebuild. If leBron stays then I think IT would be a great sidekick to have with him and Love. Defense would be pretty damn bad unless we could get someone like Crowder and maybe Brown back with him but I really don't see much of a downside for us.

Defense killed us against the Warriors with us trying to "hide" 6'3, below average defender Kyrie on 6'7 Klay Thompson. And you don't see a downside to the guy we have to hide on Klay being 5'9 poor defender Isiah Thomas?

[axeman23]

Lebron has left two teams in 8 years.

At this point him leaving is more likely than unlikely and the numbers are not in your favor Cavs fans.

Him having "left 2 teams in 8 years" is technically correct. But so is him having left 2 teams in 14 years, and that doesn't sound nearly as dramatic, does it?

[johnnyballgame]

The only one controlling the narrative is Lebron, he is a team assembling ring chaser, he doesnt earn them the old fashioned way.

I can understand where you're coming from but you're far overboard with it.
Answer honestly, didn't Lebron earn his first free agency after spending the first seven years of his career in Cleveland? Thats longer than most players spend in the league, let alone with one team.
Do you think KD, or PG or anyone else would have stayed with that Cleveland team given the best Danny Ferry could do was Larry Hughes, a way over the hill Shaq, a way, way past his prime Ben Wallace, a decrepit Wally Sczerbiak.. Donyell Marshall.. these are the good players... don't get me started on the bad. Looking back, there's not a star in the league who would have stayed there.

The only thing he did wrong there was not just inform the Cavs he wouldn't be back. The Cleveland fans took it hard as he was the local hero and all they had to cheer about. Why are you so salty about it? I really doubt you beat up KD, PG, Shaq, Garnett or anyone else who ever left a team in free agency the same way.