The Kyrie-Clippers Rumors

[og15]

Hey, a pass-first PG couldn't get us over the hump. Why not try it with a shoot-first one?

I actually think it might be a better fit- Irving can really take over in clutch situations- something cp3 and Griffin have struggled with at times. Griffin is very unselfish and could use a scoring point guard

The problem is this: can Kyrie get you to the positions where he gets to take those clutch shots in the first place? Clutchness is one of those things that can get very overrated. People easily forget that teams also have to make stops on the other end for the big shot to win it, there also tends to be a lot of confirmation bias. Kyrie has had a vey luxurious situation. He has to do little playmaking, and he doesn't even work on defense most of the time, he just has to score as a second option. Lebron did the majority of the heavy lifting while Kyrie was able to have a more singular offensive focus and didn't have to bother much about getting his teammates involved. If we compare him to Paul who defended and was the primary playmaker and a primary scorer, and got the toughest perimeter defender, it's a much easier spot for Irving.

The actual advantage though, is that with CP, the SF was always weak, but if Kyrie comes on board the SF would not be an offensive weakness. This means teams can't always just pull their best wing to put on the PG without consequence. They can't hide their PG on the SF, etc.

His individual offensive skill is very good and useful, though games aren't won in just those closing moments, so with no LeBron he'll need to bring more. Still, it's a star driven league, and DJ is a superstar role player. It's easier to fill in that kind of player than to try and find another star.

[esqtvd]

I dunno. the more I think about it, I don't want a guy like Kyrie on my team.

he is basically saying he wants to be a ball dominant, score first, scoring title challenging player rather than to have another chance at winning it all. even with all the reasons Irving's camp has stated, one more season with LeBron was all it was gonna take, then if he didn't want to be stuck in a bad situation, he could have easily bailed out after one more season. even better, after LeBron leaves, then Kyrie could have demanded a trade with just 1 more year left, basically telling Dan Gilbert that you could have something for me now, or you will have nothing when I go to the free agency after his last year of contract.

I dont like it either. Kyrie is a fine player but if he wont play with LeBron he wont play with Griffin and the D would be horrible.

The character issue. Yup.


The elephant in the Clippers room. Blake punched out his friend at dinner. But Chris Paul turned the bacchanal that is professional sports into a Clippers locker room where kids were welcome.

Chris is Joe Boy Scout, but OTOH, Chris is kind of a prick to his teammates. Kobe-level prick. Unfortunately for Chris, unlike Kobe, at 6'1" he can't win a game single-handedly. Just can't. He hit that one shot over Duncan. Sort of.

Kyrie can. At 6'3", probably not consistently, like giants LeBron and Durant. But what choice do we have? Blake can't win a game. Just can't. Just doesn't have those mad skillz, or frankly, the mental toughness. Kyrie may not be an alpha, but maybe he is and he wants the job.

Blake doesn't want the job. He signed the max contract but never said he wanted to lead the Clippers to the title. [3rd-rater DJ doesn't even want the #2 job, but that's another story.]

Chris didn't even want the job of Alpha Male. Well, he did, but I'd rather put the ball in James Harden's hands, and Chris just decided he would too.

And Chris just risked 150 million US Dollars on it. I mean WTF? If Chris tears up his knee this year, he's done. Bye bye $170 million.
Chris REALLY wanted out of here. But that's another story too...

As for Kyrie, I'll take my chances on the prick. He just volunteered to play for the Clippers for the next 2 years for $20M per. Chickenfeed. We need a new Head Prick. Blake ain't gonna do it. Kyrie just applied for the job.


Don't be gift horsing the mouth. Kyrie wants to lead the LA Clippers to the title. Nobody else does. I say, OK Kyrie. You're able, willing and ready. You just won the job by default.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2723050-kyrie-irving-would-forfeit-200m-supermax-contract-if-traded-by-cavaliers

Kyrie Irving's reported desire to be traded could cost him some serious cash.

According to ESPN.com's Brian Windhorst, Irving would forfeit his ability to earn a "supermax" contract in 2019 through the NBA's new designated player veteran extension. This policy in the league's newly installed collective bargaining agreement "was meant to deter star players from leaving their teams as they came up on their third contract."

As outlined by RealGM's Christopher Reina, players can become eligible for the "supermax"—which allows them to earn 35 percent of the salary cap—if they "have been named to an All-NBA team in the previous season or two of the previous three, or either be an MVP or Defensive Player of the Year in any of the previous three seasons. In addition to that individual achievement, players must also remain on the team they were on during their rookie contracts."

Irving is scheduled to earn $18.9 million next season and $20 million during the 2018-19 campaign before he makes a decision on his $21.3 million player option in the summer of 2019.

The 25-year-old also has a 15 percent trade kicker in his contract.

According to ESPN.com's Chris Haynes, Irving has circled the New York Knicks, San Antonio Spurs, Miami Heat and Minnesota Timberwolves as his preferred trade destinations. But without a no-trade clause, the Cavaliers don't have to placate the point guard.

Rather, they can shop around for the best deal—whether it's with one of those four teams or not—and scan the market for the best package of assets around.

Contract information courtesy of Spotrac.com unless noted otherwise.

[og15]

How nice of you to generously give CP 6'1. That man is 5'11 though haha, but don't tell him that.

[esqtvd]

How nice of you to generously give CP 6'1. That man is 5'11 though haha, but don't tell him that.

LOL. I meant to write 6-foot-even. But of course you're right.

And the last I just read somewhere about 6'6" PF Barkley, he wasn't even 6'4". [Pls don't make me look it up.]


I've been a "wingspan" fan like a lot of people hereabouts, but if the NBA is a vertical game--and surely it is--it's really all in the legs, innit?

[Alatan]

I dunno. the more I think about it, I don't want a guy like Kyrie on my team.

he is basically saying he wants to be a ball dominant, score first, scoring title challenging player rather than to have another chance at winning it all. even with all the reasons Irving's camp has stated, one more season with LeBron was all it was gonna take, then if he didn't want to be stuck in a bad situation, he could have easily bailed out after one more season. even better, after LeBron leaves, then Kyrie could have demanded a trade with just 1 more year left, basically telling Dan Gilbert that you could have something for me now, or you will have nothing when I go to the free agency after his last year of contract.

I dont like it either. Kyrie is a fine player but if he wont play with LeBron he wont play with Griffin and the D would be horrible.

Kyrie can. At 6'3", probably not consistently, like giants LeBron and Durant. But what choice do we have? Blake can't win a game. Just can't. Just doesn't have those mad skillz, or frankly, the mental toughness. Kyrie may not be an alpha, but maybe he is and he wants the job.

Blake doesn't want the job. He signed the max contract but never said he wanted to lead the Clippers to the title. [3rd-rater DJ doesn't even want the #2 job, but that's another story.]

As for Kyrie, I'll take my chances on the prick. He just volunteered to play for the Clippers for the next 2 years for $20M per. Chickenfeed. We need a new Head Prick. Blake ain't gonna do it. Kyrie just applied for the job.


Don't be gift horsing the mouth. Kyrie wants to lead the LA Clippers to the title. Nobody else does. I say, OK Kyrie. You're able, willing and ready. You just won the job by default.

Call me crazy but maybe you don't need a ISO ball superstar to win a championship. Maybe the Clippers should try and play a team game with ball movement and spread out scoring.

Either way it's not like Kyrie would come here for free, you would still need to gut the roster and lose Jordan and Beverly, the only guys that play defense. Do you think that you could build around Kyrie and Griffin before Kyrie decides that there are greener pastures out there?

Even if you find players will Kyrie manage to work with Blake better than taking turns on running the offense ? As i understand Blake lost a lot of production by playing without the ball in his hands so a ball hungry shoot first pg certainly wont improve the situation.

And the last question is would you really like to watch that ? As talented and exciting the Cavs individual players are they surely run an ugly offense and an uglier defense, at least that is my opinion.

[Ranma]

After listening to the Basketball Insiders podcast, Pincus and Coon mentioned that the Lakers are the likeliest of teams to be able to open up enough salary cap space to attract 2 star free agents. At the same time, there will be fewer teams with enough cap space to compete for free agents in the summer of 2018.

The Clippers are noted as one of those teams with enough cap space to pursue a star free agent assuming that DeAndre Jordan will opt out of his deal, which is actually expected. Both Pincus and Coon expect the Clippers to deal DJ away before the end of the season. Likewise, Austin Rivers is also a possibility to opt out of his deal as well.

Pincus thinks the Clippers are actually a top-3 possibility for Kyrie Irving even if they are not the favorite. He further goes on to endorse Tim Kawakami's credibility with regards to his report of the Warriors' interest in making a play for Paul George.

[esqtvd]

I dont like it either. Kyrie is a fine player but if he wont play with LeBron he wont play with Griffin and the D would be horrible.

Kyrie can. At 6'3", probably not consistently, like giants LeBron and Durant. But what choice do we have? Blake can't win a game. Just can't. Just doesn't have those mad skillz, or frankly, the mental toughness. Kyrie may not be an alpha, but maybe he is and he wants the job.

Blake doesn't want the job. He signed the max contract but never said he wanted to lead the Clippers to the title. [3rd-rater DJ doesn't even want the #2 job, but that's another story.]

As for Kyrie, I'll take my chances on the prick. He just volunteered to play for the Clippers for the next 2 years for $20M per. Chickenfeed. We need a new Head Prick. Blake ain't gonna do it. Kyrie just applied for the job.


Don't be gift horsing the mouth. Kyrie wants to lead the LA Clippers to the title. Nobody else does. I say, OK Kyrie. You're able, willing and ready. You just won the job by default.

Call me crazy but maybe you don't need a ISO ball superstar to win a championship. Maybe the Clippers should try and play a team game with ball movement and spread out scoring.

Either way it's not like Kyrie would come here for free, you would still need to gut the roster and lose Jordan and Beverly, the only guys that play defense. Do you think that you could build around Kyrie and Griffin before Kyrie decides that there are greener pastures out there?

Even if you find players will Kyrie manage to work with Blake better than taking turns on running the offense ? As i understand Blake lost a lot of production by playing without the ball in his hands so a ball hungry shoot first pg certainly wont improve the situation.

And the last question is would you really like to watch that ? As talented and exciting the Cavs individual players are they surely run an ugly offense and an uglier defense, at least that is my opinion.

Thanks for asking, bro. I adore Chris Paul, for his game and as a person.

And yes, since Chris is gone and Blake is now the reigning Mr. Clipper, I'd rather watch him play with Kyrie. In fact, if Blake is Mr. Clipper, I think Kyrie is a much better complement than Chris.

And let me repeat for me bona fides that Chris is my favorite LA Clipper of all time and I've been here since the beginning in 1984.


To answer your question, the more I think about it, I think Kyrie and Blake would be the tits. Fantastic yin-yang. Kirk and Spock.

[og15]

I dont like it either. Kyrie is a fine player but if he wont play with LeBron he wont play with Griffin and the D would be horrible.

Kyrie can. At 6'3", probably not consistently, like giants LeBron and Durant. But what choice do we have? Blake can't win a game. Just can't. Just doesn't have those mad skillz, or frankly, the mental toughness. Kyrie may not be an alpha, but maybe he is and he wants the job.

Blake doesn't want the job. He signed the max contract but never said he wanted to lead the Clippers to the title. [3rd-rater DJ doesn't even want the #2 job, but that's another story.]

As for Kyrie, I'll take my chances on the prick. He just volunteered to play for the Clippers for the next 2 years for $20M per. Chickenfeed. We need a new Head Prick. Blake ain't gonna do it. Kyrie just applied for the job.


Don't be gift horsing the mouth. Kyrie wants to lead the LA Clippers to the title. Nobody else does. I say, OK Kyrie. You're able, willing and ready. You just won the job by default.

Call me crazy but maybe you don't need a ISO ball superstar to win a championship. Maybe the Clippers should try and play a team game with ball movement and spread out scoring.

Either way it's not like Kyrie would come here for free, you would still need to gut the roster and lose Jordan and Beverly, the only guys that play defense. Do you think that you could build around Kyrie and Griffin before Kyrie decides that there are greener pastures out there?

Even if you find players will Kyrie manage to work with Blake better than taking turns on running the offense ? As i understand Blake lost a lot of production by playing without the ball in his hands so a ball hungry shoot first pg certainly wont improve the situation.

And the last question is would you really like to watch that ? As talented and exciting the Cavs individual players are they surely run an ugly offense and an uglier defense, at least that is my opinion.

I think there's two things we can at times mix up iso ball and isolation. The thought of "iso ball" which in reality very few teams now do, compared to actual iso ball has made a lot of people think there's something inherently wrong with isolation. There isn't. The ability to isolate is a good thing and a useful skill, but it's all about how you use it. In the playoffs and against tough defenses you will have possessions that break down and you will need 1-2 players who can create at a high level from those broken possessions.

The problem is if your offense is set up for a lot of isolation. A diligent and consistent coach can weed that out. I don't know if Doc is that guy because he gave up on that with Jamal a couple of weeks into coaching him and did not reign Austin in either. Kyrie has the skills to play more flow basketball but then isolate when needed, but he would need to be coached into it, it's not natural for him.

Also I keep reading this idea that Blake "lost" production or was held back because Paul was an on ball guy and superior as a playmaker. Here's the reality about playing with other stars, your stats will be held back somewhere, somehow. If they are a playmaker you will do less there, and if they are a scorer you will score less.The benefit is that you win more. If the goal is to maximize one players stats then the aim is to get no other players that will take possessions from them, but that setup does not win you playoff series' after the player has their fancy regular season numbers.

[MartinToVaught]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20343088/lebron-future-impacts-cavaliers-kyrie-irving-trades

Woj's latest article about the Kyrie trade doesn't even mention us as a destination and says that the Cavs are looking for a young player on the rise like Tatum, Porzingis, Josh Jackson, or Jamal Murray in return for him.

With the season drawing nearer and the Cavs still holding out for a bigger return than we could possibly give them, it's getting on time to move on (if the Clippers' front office hasn't already moved on).

[Forte IV]

Brad Turner reported weeks ago the Clippers made a call and were rejected so they moved on. This article is just nonsense.

[QRich3]

That Woj article seems specifically commissioned by the Cavs FO to put pressure on Lebron, threatening to go on a full rebuild in his last year there unless he commits long term. Doubt they'll have the balls to start rebuilding while they have pretty much a free pass to the finals, but if Lebron agrees to, say taking his player option before the season to indulge them, they'll shift completely on what they're looking for.

[esqtvd]

That Woj article seems specifically commissioned by the Cavs FO to put pressure on Lebron, threatening to go on a full rebuild in his last year there unless he commits long term. Doubt they'll have the balls to start rebuilding while they have pretty much a free pass to the finals, but if Lebron agrees to, say taking his player option before the season to indulge them, they'll shift completely on what they're looking for.

I like this riff, Q. If I'm management--owner Dan Gilbert--I've got my title, thank you very much, LeBron. LeBron hates my guts and I hate his. We have an understanding.

You're out of here next summer and frankly I don't need another title if it means trading away my 25-yr-old superstar. In fact, I don't need another title period just to watch you decamp for LA. I need Kyrie Irving to fill my arena for the next 10 years.

Frankly I wish somebody would make me an offer for Bron. Wish I'd got to that moron who owns the Nets before Ainge did.

[QRich3]

Yeah, Lebron's got a no trade clause though, so he's not going anywhere he doesn't want to go, and the only way they have to push him out is exactly that, threatening to rebuild while he's still there.

I honestly have a hard time seeing Lebron leave if they manage to win a title this year, but that's not an easy task. If they get steamrolled by the Warriors again, which is the likely thing, I can see him going away, with how things are looking and the signs coming from him. I still don't see why would he go to the Lakers cause it's gonna hurt his legacy quite a bit, but I guess he loves playing the saviour and there's no other place he'll get as much attention as the Lakers or the Knicks.

But even if they get George and/or Cousins alongside Lebron or something like that (big ass if), I don't see them ever getting past the WCF until he retires, if they even get there. It'd be a very risky bet on his part.

[TucsonClip]

We certainly could use the scoring punch Irving provides, and I have an inkling that we will try to move DJ by the deadline. However, what are we doing with three PGs playing two positions? I dont think bringing in Irving and sending out Bev in the DJ packages makes too much sense. Milos isnt going anywhere. So..

Irving, Beverley, Milos, Rivers. Someone has to go and three of the guys are PGs.

For as much as I despise Kyrie's defense, swapping an expiring DJ who will want a ton of money for a go-to scorer in Irving with another year left on his deal makes sense. But is that the right deal? What are the deals to come after to balance the roster?

[Wammy Giveaway]

With Irving now made a Celtic, this thread is officially useless. Please lock.

[thanumba2clippersfan]

Your wish is granted