Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez
Walt_Uoob wrote:Next summer: Chandler for Deng and two future LA firsts. Deng is their biggest contract and has fallen off badly and plays the same position as LeBron and PG, and has an additional year at a higher salary than Chandler. So it's basically one pick for Chandler and one for taking on Deng.
DarkHawk wrote:Walt_Uoob wrote:Next summer: Chandler for Deng and two future LA firsts. Deng is their biggest contract and has fallen off badly and plays the same position as LeBron and PG, and has an additional year at a higher salary than Chandler. So it's basically one pick for Chandler and one for taking on Deng.
LA needs cap space next summer. Chandler isn't an expiring.
We would have to absorb Deng for any chance at that many 1st's IMO
Walt_Uoob wrote:DarkHawk wrote:Walt_Uoob wrote:Next summer: Chandler for Deng and two future LA firsts. Deng is their biggest contract and has fallen off badly and plays the same position as LeBron and PG, and has an additional year at a higher salary than Chandler. So it's basically one pick for Chandler and one for taking on Deng.
LA needs cap space next summer. Chandler isn't an expiring.
We would have to absorb Deng for any chance at that many 1st's IMO
Yeah it would save them money next year but only like $5m. Maybe we trade Chandler somewhere else to clear cap space to absorb more/all of Deng's deal.
Man I'm digging deep for Suns stuff to think about!
Frank Lee wrote:So, Y'all can spout off every reason you can think of to not want James here and scoff at adding DMC, but If McD can afford it...do you really think he will just ignore his job and not try? He has created the cap room, and could trim more. Lil ryan hasn't been able to get much more than a Kiss in free agency. He's been left front stoop time and time again.... but he keeps asking the prettiest girls out. I'll give him that. Why do you think he changes his tactics next year? The big eared Kid wants to go to prom badly.
Its an option I'd believe our front office has contemplated. Connecting some dots that other teams do not have. It may have started out as plan 'D'.... but when ABC fizzle out...what do you do?
May be think of some good things that could happen with it.
(GodDamn...did I just blow a sunshine kiss?)
In2ition wrote:I can't see the Clippers or Memphis falling off that bad in the West. I see Philly being much higher in the East, if everyone is healthy.
AtheJ415 wrote:jredsaz wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:
The problem I see here is that LeBron will demand to run the team. I don't want to volunteer to be a worse version of the Cavs, and I think LeBron would demand we trade a bunch of the youngsters for other stars. Best case scenario imo, we also get Paul George. But I look at that and I still don't see a team that would have a prayer of beating GSW with Durant.
If LeBron was okay with the youth movement and trying to add stars in FA, I'm all aboard. If he wants us to dismantle to get him the Melo's of the world I would honestly rather not sign him. He is 34 and father time is undefeated, and while he is the greatest athletic specimen ever I think when he falls off at his size it will be quick.
This is just insane. You don't want LeBron because it may mean we give up on some of our youth? I mean it's comical.
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No. I don't want Lebron because he's 34 and would demand to run the team, meaning we win now in the next 2 years trying to defeat literally the greatest team of all time with a declining Lebron on a team that has almost no chance of being better than the current Cavs, while maxing out role players that Lebron likes. So yeah, all of that.
Lebron as a GM has been a DISASTER. That's why he's having to leave the Cavs--because they have no prayer of winning a title going forward given what he demanded they do with their role players. In his last 3 years to join a team like Phoenix (too young to win now), he is certainly going to demand that type of control, and I am not wanting to see 5 years of tanking go down the drain in a crazy effort to get Bron a last ring that is almost certain to fail.
If this was Lebron last go around, when he was 30 and still had 5 good years left, then sure, trade away and try to win around him, but I don't want to be the team doing it when he's 34. Bigs tend to fall off a cliff suddenly with age, and Lebron has the body of a big. Kobe fell off in a single offseason. I see no reason to think that Lebron, as ridiculously gifted as he is, can be good for more than another 3 years. And I see no feasible way to build a team that can beat GSW in the next 3 years here in Phoenix.
jredsaz wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:jredsaz wrote:This is just insane. You don't want LeBron because it may mean we give up on some of our youth? I mean it's comical.
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No. I don't want Lebron because he's 34 and would demand to run the team, meaning we win now in the next 2 years trying to defeat literally the greatest team of all time with a declining Lebron on a team that has almost no chance of being better than the current Cavs, while maxing out role players that Lebron likes. So yeah, all of that.
Lebron as a GM has been a DISASTER. That's why he's having to leave the Cavs--because they have no prayer of winning a title going forward given what he demanded they do with their role players. In his last 3 years to join a team like Phoenix (too young to win now), he is certainly going to demand that type of control, and I am not wanting to see 5 years of tanking go down the drain in a crazy effort to get Bron a last ring that is almost certain to fail.
If this was Lebron last go around, when he was 30 and still had 5 good years left, then sure, trade away and try to win around him, but I don't want to be the team doing it when he's 34. Bigs tend to fall off a cliff suddenly with age, and Lebron has the body of a big. Kobe fell off in a single offseason. I see no reason to think that Lebron, as ridiculously gifted as he is, can be good for more than another 3 years. And I see no feasible way to build a team that can beat GSW in the next 3 years here in Phoenix.
He will turn 33 this year, 34 next. Kobe played at a high level to age 34 and fell off a cliff due to an achilles rupture. Could that happen to LeBron? Sure. But his lack of injury history makes it less likely.
Jordan played at an insanely high level until 34 and then retired for three seasons. Came back at 38 and averaged over 20 a game.
I think James has 4 years of very good basketball left in him. The Suns could build a better team around him than what he has in Cleveland. One that can match up against GSW better.
Anyway it probably won't happen. But to say your are stead fast against the idea is hilarious. He is still the best player in the world.
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bwgood77 wrote:In2ition wrote:I can't see the Clippers or Memphis falling off that bad in the West. I see Philly being much higher in the East, if everyone is healthy.
I agree. They both basically have two all star caliber players and other solid vets. Health could be a factor, especially with the Grizzlies with Parsons and Evans, and then Blake for the Clips. I think the Mavs will be pretty good too. They have a pretty solid lineup with Smith, Curry, Barnes, Dirk and Noel. Wes Matthews too.
I'll be pretty surprised if the bottom 3 in the west are not the Lakers, Kings and us unless another team faces significant injuries.
Frank Lee wrote:So, Y'all can spout off every reason you can think of to not want James here and scoff at adding DMC, but If McD can afford it...do you really think he will just ignore his job and not try? He has created the cap room, and could trim more. Lil ryan hasn't been able to get much more than a Kiss in free agency. He's been left front stoop time and time again.... but he keeps asking the prettiest girls out. I'll give him that. Why do you think he changes his tactics next year? The big eared Kid wants to go to prom badly.
Its an option I'd believe our front office has contemplated. Connecting some dots that other teams do not have. It may have started out as plan 'D'.... but when ABC fizzle out...what do you do?
May be think of some good things that could happen with it.
(GodDamn...
AtheJ415 wrote:jredsaz wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:
No. I don't want Lebron because he's 34 and would demand to run the team, meaning we win now in the next 2 years trying to defeat literally the greatest team of all time with a declining Lebron on a team that has almost no chance of being better than the current Cavs, while maxing out role players that Lebron likes. So yeah, all of that.
Lebron as a GM has been a DISASTER. That's why he's having to leave the Cavs--because they have no prayer of winning a title going forward given what he demanded they do with their role players. In his last 3 years to join a team like Phoenix (too young to win now), he is certainly going to demand that type of control, and I am not wanting to see 5 years of tanking go down the drain in a crazy effort to get Bron a last ring that is almost certain to fail.
If this was Lebron last go around, when he was 30 and still had 5 good years left, then sure, trade away and try to win around him, but I don't want to be the team doing it when he's 34. Bigs tend to fall off a cliff suddenly with age, and Lebron has the body of a big. Kobe fell off in a single offseason. I see no reason to think that Lebron, as ridiculously gifted as he is, can be good for more than another 3 years. And I see no feasible way to build a team that can beat GSW in the next 3 years here in Phoenix.
He will turn 33 this year, 34 next. Kobe played at a high level to age 34 and fell off a cliff due to an achilles rupture. Could that happen to LeBron? Sure. But his lack of injury history makes it less likely.
Jordan played at an insanely high level until 34 and then retired for three seasons. Came back at 38 and averaged over 20 a game.
I think James has 4 years of very good basketball left in him. The Suns could build a better team around him than what he has in Cleveland. One that can match up against GSW better.
Anyway it probably won't happen. But to say your are stead fast against the idea is hilarious. He is still the best player in the world.
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Exactly, so Lebron would be 34 if he played for Phoenix. Lebron's size alone makes him falling off of a cliff at around this age likely. Other big guys historically fall off. Even Kobe getting the achilles rupture is likely due to age (older people tend to get hurt more often than younger people).
Jordan averaged 20 at 38 because he was straight chucking, just like Kobe as he went out. If you shoot enough and are NBA caliber you will score 20. Brandon Knight scores 20 all the time. That's why he's looked at as a future hall of famer. Oh wait....
Also, I would argue that the fact that you think in the West, with a team that won a whopping 24 games last year and built around guys who are mostly 19-23, that we can build a team capable of beating the greatest team of all time before adding Kevin freaking Durant, all because of a 34 year old Lebron is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. If you add Lebron's winshare to our team you wouldn't even make the playoffs in the west. Lebron, with a legitimate superstar and an all star with a team hand built around him born from 3 years of recruiting on his part won enough games to finish 5th or 6th in the West, and that was with guys in their primes, and they couldn't get more than 1 game against this GSW team. Fact is Cleveland dominates a very weak eastern conference, and wouldn't be favored against the top 3 or 4 in the west. There is 0, and I mean 0, reason to believe that a Lebron-led Phoenix team at 34 would come close to being a real contender.
jredsaz wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:jredsaz wrote:
He will turn 33 this year, 34 next. Kobe played at a high level to age 34 and fell off a cliff due to an achilles rupture. Could that happen to LeBron? Sure. But his lack of injury history makes it less likely.
Jordan played at an insanely high level until 34 and then retired for three seasons. Came back at 38 and averaged over 20 a game.
I think James has 4 years of very good basketball left in him. The Suns could build a better team around him than what he has in Cleveland. One that can match up against GSW better.
Anyway it probably won't happen. But to say your are stead fast against the idea is hilarious. He is still the best player in the world.
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Exactly, so Lebron would be 34 if he played for Phoenix. Lebron's size alone makes him falling off of a cliff at around this age likely. Other big guys historically fall off. Even Kobe getting the achilles rupture is likely due to age (older people tend to get hurt more often than younger people).
Jordan averaged 20 at 38 because he was straight chucking, just like Kobe as he went out. If you shoot enough and are NBA caliber you will score 20. Brandon Knight scores 20 all the time. That's why he's looked at as a future hall of famer. Oh wait....
Also, I would argue that the fact that you think in the West, with a team that won a whopping 24 games last year and built around guys who are mostly 19-23, that we can build a team capable of beating the greatest team of all time before adding Kevin freaking Durant, all because of a 34 year old Lebron is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. If you add Lebron's winshare to our team you wouldn't even make the playoffs in the west. Lebron, with a legitimate superstar and an all star with a team hand built around him born from 3 years of recruiting on his part won enough games to finish 5th or 6th in the West, and that was with guys in their primes, and they couldn't get more than 1 game against this GSW team. Fact is Cleveland dominates a very weak eastern conference, and wouldn't be favored against the top 3 or 4 in the west. There is 0, and I mean 0, reason to believe that a Lebron-led Phoenix team at 34 would come close to being a real contender.
No. Youre right. Signing LeBron James would be the stupidest thing ever done for a team with a whopping 24 wins last year. Lmao.
I never said they would build a team that would beat the Warriors with a 34 year old James. So while what I said may strike you as stupid, your inability to comprehend the content of my post...
That said, they could surround Bledsoe, Booker, Jackson, and James with players that can defend the perimeter and shoot the 3 instead of dumping 1/3 of the cap on a player like Love, who does not compliment LeBron well at all. Worse, LeBrons game mitigates Loves production.
LeBron is a generational athlete. Your assertion that he will break down quickly because he is a big is an assumption. The guy is a freak. I can claim with the same kind of certainty that he will have a gradual decline because Dirk did. It's all conjecture, you should stop acting like it's fact.
The fact is Durrant and Curry have missed time due to lower body injuries. I could argue it's a certainty that they will be hurt again because players with bad feet and ankles have a hard time staying healthy. It's not a certainty tho. But it is a possibility. And if one of these players does get hurt maybe the Suns are positioned to take advantage with a 34, 35, or 36 year old James.
Anyway, signing LeBron James would put the Suns on the map internationally, bring in an incredible amount of money to the organization, increase the likelihood of future big name free agent acquisitions, provide an amazing mentor to Booker and Jackson (helping them understand what it takes to be a champion when they hit their prime in 5 years), AND he will win a lot of games in Phoenix.
If it means we don't keep Chriss, Bender, or some first round picks I'm okay with that. Those assets guarantee the Suns NOTHING and if you don't think the off the court benefits are important to an organization you're not being realistic.
In the end, only on a Real GM forum would a Suns fan say that signing LeBron James is a stupid idea and be applauded for it. It is hilarious. He won't come here but if he was willing to the Suns should roll out the red carpet.
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. Love isn't their problem--it's the 8 figure role players all over the team that are at best average and were only signed to, guess what, help Lebron win NOW, which is what he would want us to do also. Also, how is this not saying you think Phoenix would have a shot against GS with Lebron when you are looking at contention with the Cavs lineup?Mulhollanddrive wrote:Nobody should be traded, nobody should be acquired, except Eric Bledsoe for some reason.
AtheJ415 wrote:Spoiler:
DMC is different than Lebron. He is 8 years younger than Lebron and wouldn't demand we contend immediately. Lebron has the leverage to demand to be the GM of the team. He has done that with Cleveland, leading to them playing insane deals for role players Lebron likes, hamstringing their future and making it such that they cannot realistically contend with Golden State due to a lack of flexibility.
Every front office has contemplated the option. It is literally their job to contemplate all of the options. It does not mean they should sacrifice everything to win today, or do whatever it takes to get Lebron simply because he is an all-time great while ignoring that he is 34 and that even a best case scenario team (say we get Bron, Cousins, and George) still has little to 0 chance of beating the Warriors before Lebron starts to fall off abruptly.
You are misunderstanding all of this imo. Of course we will go for Lebron, and if Lebron wants to come here without demanding we trade everyone on our team to get him vets in a futile attempt to beat GS, then we should absolutely sign him. I don't think anybody here honestly thinks McD wouldn't try to get Lebron. Every GM on the planet will. We can honestly and rightfully debate whether it is in the team's best interest to promise additional strings to the signing that may hamper the long-term outlook of the team.
AtheJ415 wrote:jredsaz wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:
Exactly, so Lebron would be 34 if he played for Phoenix. Lebron's size alone makes him falling off of a cliff at around this age likely. Other big guys historically fall off. Even Kobe getting the achilles rupture is likely due to age (older people tend to get hurt more often than younger people).
Jordan averaged 20 at 38 because he was straight chucking, just like Kobe as he went out. If you shoot enough and are NBA caliber you will score 20. Brandon Knight scores 20 all the time. That's why he's looked at as a future hall of famer. Oh wait....
Also, I would argue that the fact that you think in the West, with a team that won a whopping 24 games last year and built around guys who are mostly 19-23, that we can build a team capable of beating the greatest team of all time before adding Kevin freaking Durant, all because of a 34 year old Lebron is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. If you add Lebron's winshare to our team you wouldn't even make the playoffs in the west. Lebron, with a legitimate superstar and an all star with a team hand built around him born from 3 years of recruiting on his part won enough games to finish 5th or 6th in the West, and that was with guys in their primes, and they couldn't get more than 1 game against this GSW team. Fact is Cleveland dominates a very weak eastern conference, and wouldn't be favored against the top 3 or 4 in the west. There is 0, and I mean 0, reason to believe that a Lebron-led Phoenix team at 34 would come close to being a real contender.
No. Youre right. Signing LeBron James would be the stupidest thing ever done for a team with a whopping 24 wins last year. Lmao.
I never said they would build a team that would beat the Warriors with a 34 year old James. So while what I said may strike you as stupid, your inability to comprehend the content of my post...
That said, they could surround Bledsoe, Booker, Jackson, and James with players that can defend the perimeter and shoot the 3 instead of dumping 1/3 of the cap on a player like Love, who does not compliment LeBron well at all. Worse, LeBrons game mitigates Loves production.
LeBron is a generational athlete. Your assertion that he will break down quickly because he is a big is an assumption. The guy is a freak. I can claim with the same kind of certainty that he will have a gradual decline because Dirk did. It's all conjecture, you should stop acting like it's fact.
The fact is Durrant and Curry have missed time due to lower body injuries. I could argue it's a certainty that they will be hurt again because players with bad feet and ankles have a hard time staying healthy. It's not a certainty tho. But it is a possibility. And if one of these players does get hurt maybe the Suns are positioned to take advantage with a 34, 35, or 36 year old James.
Anyway, signing LeBron James would put the Suns on the map internationally, bring in an incredible amount of money to the organization, increase the likelihood of future big name free agent acquisitions, provide an amazing mentor to Booker and Jackson (helping them understand what it takes to be a champion when they hit their prime in 5 years), AND he will win a lot of games in Phoenix.
If it means we don't keep Chriss, Bender, or some first round picks I'm okay with that. Those assets guarantee the Suns NOTHING and if you don't think the off the court benefits are important to an organization you're not being realistic.
In the end, only on a Real GM forum would a Suns fan say that signing LeBron James is a stupid idea and be applauded for it. It is hilarious. He won't come here but if he was willing to the Suns should roll out the red carpet.
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It's funny that you complain about my reading comprehension while clearly missing all of what I said. I said that thinking the team has a shot against GS by signing Lebron is the stupidest thing I've ever read. Your posts here all point towards that--if Durant or Curry get hurt, how Love is the problem, etc.. I didn't say signing him would be stupid on its face. I said signing him with strings attached is stupid. You then went on to claim that I thought signing him at all is stupid. If he wants to come here you sign him. If he wants to come here only if we trade the youngsters to help him win now in a vein attempt to usurp GS then you pass.
The 2nd paragraph is equally laughable because guys who can both defend the perimeter and shoot the 3 make 8 figures in this league. You literally can't surround him with guys who can do both under the cap in a short timeframe, and the rest of our current team is made up of poor defenders and poor shooters, so how exactly does that happen? And to think if the Cavs had a couple of those role players instead of Love would somehow make them contend against GS last year is
Also, there is a long history of freaks breaking down, particularly ones who are big guys (like Lebron), and particularly ones who played huge minutes throughout their careers (like Lebron). There is no reason to think he will play at this level beyond maybe another 3 years.
Then, you discuss what happens if one of Durant or Curry gets hurt. Again, how is that not positing that a Phoenix team with Bron could beat GS? I guess my reading comprehension must be off. Anyways, if one of Durant or Curry gets hurt, you are left with basically the Warriors of 2 years ago, and what were they? Oh yeah, the GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME up until that point.
Simple facts here: The Cavs are currently better than this Phoenix team could get in the next 3 years by any realistic measure. The Cavs would have been the 5th or 6th best team in the West. Phoenix is not going to be in the Eastern conference at any point. Lebron at 34, on this Phoenix team, is at best a 6th or 7th seed. The only way to contend, thus, is to trade all of our youth for complementary pieces. If we not only convinced both Lebron and Paul George to take a pay cut to get both, and then traded our remaining youth for Cousins, we STILL would not be favored to beat GS.
Yeah, I'm not looking forward to any of that.
I'll just leave this with the following, since it appears you can't understand what I am saying--if Lebron wants to come here no strings attached you do it. Obviously he would be great for the youngsters and great for the team in many ways. If Lebron wants to come here to try to win a title in the next 3 years and wants us to trade the youth for old vets, then it is horrifyingly bad for Phoenix, and imo we shouldn't sign up for the GM Lebron experiment. We have seen where that leads, and it is a team full of capped out role players that he demanded they pay, little hope in draft picks, and a team that would be a 5 or 6 seed in the West.
bwgood77 wrote:In2ition wrote:I can't see the Clippers or Memphis falling off that bad in the West. I see Philly being much higher in the East, if everyone is healthy.
I agree. They both basically have two all star caliber players and other solid vets. Health could be a factor, especially with the Grizzlies with Parsons and Evans, and then Blake for the Clips. I think the Mavs will be pretty good too. They have a pretty solid lineup with Smith, Curry, Barnes, Dirk and Noel. Wes Matthews too.
I'll be pretty surprised if the bottom 3 in the west are not the Lakers, Kings and us unless another team faces significant injuries.