The Carmelo Anthony Trade Primer

[NoZoLakers]

If hes only willing to waive his ntc for hou, shouldnt that be the only primer that matters?

[NYG]

If hes only willing to waive his ntc for hou, shouldnt that be the only primer that matters?

Houston doesn't want him so yes assuming Houston continues not to want to add him and he only will accept a trade to the Rockets then this was a wasted thread as there will be no trade.

[LarsV8]

I tend to see a game of chicken at play with Morey, based on direct experience, understanding that Dolan will ultimately get impatient. I'm still hoping for Anderson being rerouted but at the end of the day I suspect Morey will throw in an extra pick, as he often has in trades, the Knicks will claim they wanted Anderson all along and were holding out for that extra pick and Morey will bamboozle the Knicks one more time. Anderson will be available December 15th and we'll see what the landscape holds through the deadline. Despite his flaws, what appears to get lost over time is the potential of how much better the Rockets could be with Melo replacing Anderson as it's truly not even close. With five weeks until training camp it's the fans who tend to panic. I still like the Jazz as Anderson's landing spot but it will likely require the Knicks to get smart and I have my doubts after the Baker and Hardaway overpays.

[shrink]

First off, good post. I do have an issue with this one though ...

13. The Knicks will not take ANY deal that involves a bad contract that goes beyond Carmelo Anthony's 2019 contract expiration even if said contract is the filler in the deal to make a trade work cap wise. Any contract going to New York longer than that in a Carmelo Anthony trade has to be a player that can unquestionably start for the Knicks.

Maybe the Knicks organization is operating under this belief, and I have heard this from fans as well, but I am not so sure I believe this one, for two reasons.

First is the obvious trade package argument. If POR said, "We love Melo, and we'll give you Lillard, and McCollum, and our draft picks from this year, and two unprotected 1sts, but you have to take one of our bad, three-year deals..." NYK would quickly back off from this position. The trade package has overwhelming more value than Melo, even if one of the pieces is distasteful.

Second, do we still look at Melo as a positive value contract? Remember, the trading team needs to spend $54.2 the next two years, plus the 15% trade kicker. Is Melo still worth that, particularly with the drama he may add to a team? He has never been a team-first player, even in Denver, and while I don't blame him for his choices, the current situation where he would refuse NYK trades to all but 1-2 teams, is more of the same. Likewise, Melo's salary is taking a pretty big chunk out of the Knicks payroll the next two years, and the drama he brings hurts the Knicks, and may be stunting the growth of Porzingas. Is his production worth $54.2 mil?

I agree that the Knicks would prefer to not get a player on a three year deal that is not an "unquestionable starter," but if that is an unbreakable rule for any package, I think we can see why no team has made an offer that has led to a Melo trade.

[RightToCensor]

Why do people think it's unlikely for Carmelo to opt out of the final year of his deal?

[NYG]

First off, good post. I do have an issue with this one though ...

13. The Knicks will not take ANY deal that involves a bad contract that goes beyond Carmelo Anthony's 2019 contract expiration even if said contract is the filler in the deal to make a trade work cap wise. Any contract going to New York longer than that in a Carmelo Anthony trade has to be a player that can unquestionably start for the Knicks.

Maybe the Knicks organization is operating under this belief, and I have heard this from fans as well, but I am not so sure I believe this one, for two reasons.

First is the obvious trade package argument. If POR said, "We love Melo, and we'll give you Lillard, and McCollum, and our draft picks from this year, and two unprotected 1sts, but you have to take one of our bad, three-year deals..." NYK would quickly back off from this position. The trade package has overwhelming more value than Melo, even if one of the pieces is distasteful.

Second, do we still look at Melo as a positive value contract? Remember, the trading team needs to spend $54.2 the next two years, plus the 15% trade kicker. Is Melo still worth that, particularly with the drama he may add to a team? He has never been a team-first player, even in Denver, and while I don't blame him for his choices, the current situation where he would refuse NYK trades to all but 1-2 teams, is more of the same. Likewise, Melo's salary is taking a pretty big chunk out of the Knicks payroll the next two years, and the drama he brings hurts the Knicks, and may be stunting the growth of Porzingas. Is his production worth $54.2 mil?

I agree that the Knicks would prefer to not get a player on a three year deal that is not an "unquestionable starter," but if that is an unbreakable rule for any package, I think we can see why no team has made an offer that has led to a Melo trade.

I don't disagree with the reasoning in the second and third paragraphs, but I think the last paragraph cancels out that reasoning. If the Knicks were willing to take a bad deal then a Melo trade would have already happened IMO.

[NYG]

Why do people think it's unlikely for Carmelo to opt out of the final year of his deal?

Melo likes his money and even he knows he's not getting that 2018-19 salary if he opts out.

[HartfordWhalers]

7. If you add Carmelo Anthony's 15% Trade Kicker (8,125,785) to his 2017-18 salary (26,243,760), it makes his incoming salary in a trade equal to $34,369,545.

8. Using the 125% + $100,000 trade rule that would apply to most teams ((34,369,545 minus 100,000 = 34,269,545) and (34,269,545 divided by 125% or 1.25 = $27,415,636)), the team receiving Carmelo Anthony would need to send out $27,415,636 in total salary.


Anything else I should add?

7 is not how that works. So then 8 is wrong as well.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q100

[shrink]

First off, good post. I do have an issue with this one though ...

13. The Knicks will not take ANY deal that involves a bad contract that goes beyond Carmelo Anthony's 2019 contract expiration even if said contract is the filler in the deal to make a trade work cap wise. Any contract going to New York longer than that in a Carmelo Anthony trade has to be a player that can unquestionably start for the Knicks.

Maybe the Knicks organization is operating under this belief, and I have heard this from fans as well, but I am not so sure I believe this one, for two reasons.

First is the obvious trade package argument. If POR said, "We love Melo, and we'll give you Lillard, and McCollum, and our draft picks from this year, and two unprotected 1sts, but you have to take one of our bad, three-year deals..." NYK would quickly back off from this position. The trade package has overwhelming more value than Melo, even if one of the pieces is distasteful.

Second, do we still look at Melo as a positive value contract? Remember, the trading team needs to spend $54.2 the next two years, plus the 15% trade kicker. Is Melo still worth that, particularly with the drama he may add to a team? He has never been a team-first player, even in Denver, and while I don't blame him for his choices, the current situation where he would refuse NYK trades to all but 1-2 teams, is more of the same. Likewise, Melo's salary is taking a pretty big chunk out of the Knicks payroll the next two years, and the drama he brings hurts the Knicks, and may be stunting the growth of Porzingas. Is his production worth $54.2 mil?

I agree that the Knicks would prefer to not get a player on a three year deal that is not an "unquestionable starter," but if that is an unbreakable rule for any package, I think we can see why no team has made an offer that has led to a Melo trade.

I don't disagree with the reasoning in the second and third paragraphs, but I think the last paragraph cancels out that reasoning. If the Knicks were willing to take a bad deal then a Melo trade would have already happened IMO.

I probably didn't state that clearly enough, because I think we agree.

I am saying that you may be right that the Knicks front office made that line in the sand about no bad deal if it runs three or four years, and that may specifically be because of Ryan Anderson. And I also agree with you that we may have seen no trade yet because they have drawn that line in the sand.

I am only questioning whether they should draw that line.

[NYG]

7. If you add Carmelo Anthony's 15% Trade Kicker (8,125,785) to his 2017-18 salary (26,243,760), it makes his incoming salary in a trade equal to $34,369,545.

8. Using the 125% + $100,000 trade rule that would apply to most teams ((34,369,545 minus 100,000 = 34,269,545) and (34,269,545 divided by 125% or 1.25 = $27,415,636)), the team receiving Carmelo Anthony would need to send out $27,415,636 in total salary.


Anything else I should add?

7 is not how that works. So then 8 is wrong as well.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q100

So how much is his trade kicker in dollars and does it count only for the Knicks as outgoing salary?

[NYG]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1607951

[FutureKnicksGM]

First off, good post. I do have an issue with this one though ...



Maybe the Knicks organization is operating under this belief, and I have heard this from fans as well, but I am not so sure I believe this one, for two reasons.

First is the obvious trade package argument. If POR said, "We love Melo, and we'll give you Lillard, and McCollum, and our draft picks from this year, and two unprotected 1sts, but you have to take one of our bad, three-year deals..." NYK would quickly back off from this position. The trade package has overwhelming more value than Melo, even if one of the pieces is distasteful.

Second, do we still look at Melo as a positive value contract? Remember, the trading team needs to spend $54.2 the next two years, plus the 15% trade kicker. Is Melo still worth that, particularly with the drama he may add to a team? He has never been a team-first player, even in Denver, and while I don't blame him for his choices, the current situation where he would refuse NYK trades to all but 1-2 teams, is more of the same. Likewise, Melo's salary is taking a pretty big chunk out of the Knicks payroll the next two years, and the drama he brings hurts the Knicks, and may be stunting the growth of Porzingas. Is his production worth $54.2 mil?

I agree that the Knicks would prefer to not get a player on a three year deal that is not an "unquestionable starter," but if that is an unbreakable rule for any package, I think we can see why no team has made an offer that has led to a Melo trade.

I don't disagree with the reasoning in the second and third paragraphs, but I think the last paragraph cancels out that reasoning. If the Knicks were willing to take a bad deal then a Melo trade would have already happened IMO.

I probably didn't state that clearly enough, because I think we agree.

I am saying that you may be right that the Knicks front office made that line in the sand about no bad deal if it runs three or four years, and that may specifically be because of Ryan Anderson. And I also agree with you that we may have seen no trade yet because they have drawn that line in the sand.

I am only questioning whether they should draw that line.

How about if you trade Melo for a worse player on a worse contract, the knicks get compensated appropriately for such a transaction, like any other team in the league would expect to. That's a decent line in the sand to draw.

On Melo a positive value at his contract? Sure that's worth questioning, if the knicks were receiving positive value contracts in his return. Not a single Melo trade posted on here has the knicks receiving positive value contracts in return. Is Ryan Anderson a positive value contract now? Teams must be chomping at the bit to be the third team to take on Ryno.

Melo drama? Maybe the next team he is traded to won't have a President/GM that will become the second President/GM in history to trash his best player through the media and let the player he trashes respond to the media, distracting the team while he hides for the season.

Never been team first? But never had any issues with his team members, and literally gets voted best team mate this year.

How in the world is wanting to be traded to the team he wants to go to, when he has a NTC, when the current team he is on want's him gone, and when the 1-2 teams he has picked give him the best to chance to win, some kind of slight against Melo.

[FutureKnicksGM]

Why do people think it's unlikely for Carmelo to opt out of the final year of his deal?

He want's that money. If he didn't care, he would prefer CLE, get a guaranteed finals run and would just walk if Lebron left.

[RightToCensor]

Why do people think it's unlikely for Carmelo to opt out of the final year of his deal?

He want's that money. If he didn't care, he would prefer CLE, get a guaranteed finals run and would just walk if Lebron left.

What's attractive about going to a team for one year to lose in the Finals? There's no future for Carmelo on the Cavs if Lebron doesn't stay, at least in Houston he could look forward to playing with Chris Paul and James Harden for the foreseeable future and try to build something from that.

[LarsV8]

All signs point to a buyout.

Its the most logical conclusion.

[bondom34]

Literally nothing points to a buyout. Except hoping for one.

[Knicksfan20]

That doesn't work cap wise unless he waives the trade kicker.

Melo has stated publicly he would be willing to waive the trade kicker for Houston. I can see it being possible he could do it for another team also if he wanted to be in a different situation bad enough.

edit: By publicly I mean in reports/rumors. I havnt actually heard those words come out of his own mouth.

[Knicksfan20]

Literally nothing points to a buyout. Except hoping for one.

0 chance he gets bought out. Knicks team loves him. Knicks owner loves him. He will bring fans to the game. Buying him out has no positive benefit to the knicks what so ever. Phil Jackson wanted to buy him out and he got fired. Melo will not be being bought out. Either he gets traded now/mid season or he leaves as a FA.


Losing him for nothing ( paying him to leave) or getting worse contracts is not what the Knicks are looking to do . Either he expands his list, rockets pony up a better offer or Melo is a Knick next season. I don't see a 4th option happening.

[patman52]

IMO, Melo's so-called play-wherever-I-want clause is going to end up equating to a my-ass-is-stuck-in-NY clause.

But he does not consider playing in the town with his son who he is now separated from as being stuck. Right now the only place he rather be than NY is Houston. I don't think you are looking at him being in NY the same way he does. Now the team wants him gone, but they are not willing to take back a negative package for him. If you look at it as he is playing in his 2nd favorite place why would he want to leave- for a ring- and that is about it.

[penbeast0]

The Carmelo Anthony Trade Primer

Just some information to consider when coming up with a Carmelo Anthony trade.

1. Carmelo Anthony has a 15% Trade Kicker.

2. It is very unlikely that Carmelo Anthony opts out of his contract after the 2017-18 season.

3. Carmelo Anthony's 2017-18 salary is $26,243,760.

4. Carmelo Anthony's 2018-19 salary is $27,928,140.

5. Carmelo Anthony's total combined salary (26,243,760 + 27,928,140) is $54,171,900.

6. 15% of 54,171,900 is 8,125,785.

7. If you add Carmelo Anthony's 15% Trade Kicker (8,125,785) to his 2017-18 salary (26,243,760), it makes his incoming salary in a trade equal to $34,369,545.

8. Using the 125% + $100,000 trade rule that would apply to most teams ((34,369,545 minus 100,000 = 34,269,545) and (34,269,545 divided by 125% or 1.25 = $27,415,636)), the team receiving Carmelo Anthony would need to send out $27,415,636 in total salary.

9. Carmelo Anthony is currently only willing to waive his No-Trade Clause to go to the Houston Rockets.

10. The Houston Rockets do not WANT to trade for Carmelo Anthony unless it is convenient for them to do so, but they are okay not landing him in a trade.

11. The New York Knicks do not NEED to trade Carmelo Anthony unless they get fair value in return, but they are okay not trading him.

12. Carmelo Anthony is probably okay with losing and staying in New York if the right circumstance doesn't present itself.

13. The Knicks will not take ANY deal that involves a bad contract that goes beyond Carmelo Anthony's 2019 contract expiration even if said contract is the filler in the deal to make a trade work cap wise. Any contract going to New York longer than that in a Carmelo Anthony trade has to be a player that can unquestionably start for the Knicks.

14. The Rockets will not include Clint Capela, Trevor Ariza, Eric Gordon, James Harden, Chris Paul, any draft pick from 2020 or earlier that does not have a top 20 protection on it before becoming two second round draft picks or any first round pick beyond 2020.

15. Carmelo Anthony probably only extends his No Trade Clause list before the trade deadline to a top 5 team in the NBA that is also a top 3-4 team in their conference or a really favorable market (Any team in California, Texas, Florida or Chicago) that is a top 10 team in the NBA and also a top 3-4 team in their conference with a chance that the Wizards would be acceptable if they fall in that category (Top 10 NBA/Top 3-4 in Conference). This isn't guaranteed he will extend to those teams, but I feel like that is the minimum requirement for him to at least listen to the option.

Anything else I should add?

Add, "These are the starting negotiating positions of Anthony, the Knicks, and the Rockets. Once it becomes clear that there will be no successful deals under these parameters, these entities MAY (not necessarily will) look for a compromise solution to get a deal done.