Clippers Offer GM Job to Thunder Exec. Michael Winger

[playaloc916]

@esqtvd: Confidence/professionalism is one thing... competence is another He definitely lost his touch with the Blazers, yikes...

But boy did he ever know how to give a presentation

[esqtvd]

well? there are a few of us still around who appreciated what Neil Olshey did for us.

The Baron Davis deal undid all that. Those around here who were ready to ship CP out for Kyrie should be especially aware of that.

And of course, I was talking more about the mess he's made in Portland, which I linked to.

[esqtvd]

@esqtvd: Confidence/professionalism is one thing... competence is another He definitely lost his touch with the Blazers, yikes...

But boy did he ever know how to give a presentation

There were a lot of geniuses out there screwing up their teams bigtime. [Olshey sure caught a break being able to dump Crabbe on the idiot Nets, though, and Nurkic might be a find. Maybe he can salvage that mess.]

[QRich3]

Nice move, Troy Weaver was the guy who got all the hype at first, but in the last few years people were talking about both Weaver and Winger as the guys behind Sam Presti's success. He has a reputation for being good at exactly the stuff the Clippers FO was lacking, which was CBA knowledge, negotiating, budget stuff and day-to-day operations in general. Weaver was apparently the guy with the talent evaluation skills, and we have Jerry West for that. And we have Frank to make basketball sense of all, so I'm liking how it's all shaping up, a lot.

well? there are a few of us still around who appreciated what Neil Olshey did for us.

The Baron Davis deal undid all that. Those around here who were ready to ship CP out for Kyrie should be especially aware of that.

And of course, I was talking more about the mess he's made in Portland, which I linked to.

The Baron Davis deal was all DTS though, you could see it in Olshey's face when he was explaining the reasoning behind it, that he was trying to sell you of a round square and he knew it. Of course him being a great politician/actor, he'd never say anything bad about the guy who refused to pay him a decent salary, even to this day.

Olshey was a great talent evaluator and great at doing/saying the right things, decent with managing the day-to-day things, but he was always lacking in long term vision. Even in the brief time he was in charge here you could see that. I'm still extremely grateful for what he did here.

[Quake Griffin]

I was a fan of Olshey as well and would not mind him being a cook in my FO kitchen. That's generally speaking. I think we're getting pretty crowded in there now.


Anybody know if this has been finalized or when it will be?
Woj got me excited and now I want some signatures on dotted lines.

[Ranma]

Read on Twitter

[esqtvd]

well? there are a few of us still around who appreciated what Neil Olshey did for us.

The Baron Davis deal undid all that. Those around here who were ready to ship CP out for Kyrie should be especially aware of that.

And of course, I was talking more about the mess he's made in Portland, which I linked to.

The Baron Davis deal was all DTS though, you could see it in Olshey's face when he was explaining the reasoning behind it, that he was trying to sell you of a round square and he knew it. Of course him being a great politician/actor, he'd never say anything bad about the guy who refused to pay him a decent salary, even to this day.

Olshey was a great talent evaluator and great at doing/saying the right things, decent with managing the day-to-day things, but he was always lacking in long term vision. Even in the brief time he was in charge here you could see that. I'm still extremely grateful for what he did here.

FTR. Definitely better than Elgin.

2008 Draft: Eric Gordon (7th overall), DeAndreJordan (35th overall)

Summer 2008: Acquired Zach Randolph and Mardy Collins for Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley

2009 Draft: Blake Griffin (1st overall)

Summer 2009: Acquired Quentin Richardson for Zach Randolph (saved $24 million in salary)

2010 Draft: Al-Farouq Aminu (8th overall), Eric Bledsoe (18th overall)

Summer 2010: Signed Randy Foye (2 years/$8.5 million)

February 2011: Acquired Mo Williams and Jamario Moon for Baron Davis and 1st round pick. Note: The Clippers saved $20 million in salary, but the pick became Kyrie Irving.

December 2011:
Matched on DeAndre Jordan's 4 year/$43 million offer sheet

Signed Caron Butler (3 years/$24 million)

Picked up Chauncey Billups on waivers ($2 million bid)

Acquired Chris Paul, a 2nd rd pick, and cash for Eric Gordon, Aminu, Chris Kaman, and a Minnesota 2012 first round pick

February 2012: Signed Kenyon Martin (1 year/$2.5 million) and acquired Nick Young for Brian Cook and 2 second round picks.

Aminu with the 8th pick [the next 2 picks were Gordon Hayward and Paul George]
Getting nothing for Zach Randolph, who went on to have 8 fine years at MEM at 17ppg/10rpg
$8M/yr for a sub-adequate Caron Butler
and of course not lottery-protecting the Kyrie Irving pick

deserve some brickbats, and some were way worse than what Doc's excoriated for in his admittedly poor [or indifferent] handling of late-20s picks.

TWO 2nd-rounders for Nick Young? OK, but that emptied the cupboard for the next regime. And I'd give the DJ pick more props, but DJ's very slow evolution into a real NBA player meant that he was never much of a bargain, including getting included on at least one All-Overpaid team after the Clips matched that GSW offer.

The Blake Griffin pick was a no-brainer, and the Eric Gordon pick, while a good one, was a bit of a no-brainer too considering the absolute dreck that made up the next 15 picks after him.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2008.html

And it's not that I'm down on Olshey so much as that I think a lot of folks just thought anything would be better than Doc. I'll give Olshey all the credit in the world for the CP trade and scooping up Bledsoe, but the rest of these moves range from meh to lousy.

And of course, again, I was speaking more of what Olshey's done in Portland. TO Portland. But looking back at Olshey's record here as a result of your praise of him, it's less credible than I remembered.

[nickhx2]

i'd like to endorse the ringer for managing to write yet again another garbo article about the clips

[Ranma]

i'd like to endorse the ringer for managing to write yet again another garbo article about the clips

I'll agree with you that the Haley O'Shaughnessy gave too much credit to Winger for OKC's overall success when he is known for being a capologist. I don't mean to ignore Winger's contributions, but Sam Presti is the Thunder's GM, not Winger. Also,
she cites drafting Eric Bledsoe as a success for Oklahoma City when he was drafted at the behest of the Clippers under Neil Olshey's direction.

Other than those issues, though, I agree with pretty much everything else she wrote.

[Ranma]

I'm not sure if Mike Winger's hiring has been made official yet, but it seems like it's just a matter of time. I'll admit that I was losing patience with Ballmer this off-season until he finally relieved Doc of his GM duties. That in itself provided hope, but I'm further encouraged by his pursuit of Winger, who is a respected and experienced executive from a well-run organization.

Personally, however, I would have preferred a more naturally inclined talent evaluator as I've previously stated that that is the most important skill for being a general manager, in my opinion. At the same time, a GM needs to have other skills as well and having Winger aboard at least keeps the Clippers from finding itself in a position to sacrifice a first-round pick in order to clear enough cap space to sign 2 minimum-deal guys like Doc did in order to shed Jared Dudley's contract so that he could sign both Ekpe Udoh and Chris Douglas-Roberts. Of course, removing Doc from the helm should have taken care of that.

Still, having an expert capologist on the staff is quite valuable in this cap-based era of the NBA economy, especially with regards to big-name free agents. As Kevin Arnovitz and Haley O'Shaughnessy respectively noted, Winger is adept at initiating front-end conversations with other teams and the Thunder recently pulled off the trade for Paul George under the radar before other teams could participate in a public bidding war, so I have to think Winger was a big part of that happening.

I remember QRich3 pushing for Troy Weaver when I was advocating for Travis Schlenk. I like Schlenk better but I was impressed with Weaver's draft acumen, but he seemed similar to Neil Olshey as being limited to that particular skill set with recent draft records that have not been as impressive as earlier respective performances.

I like the fact that Winger would report to Lawrence Frank, but Frank himself, is inexperienced in the role. Even if we assume Frank is primarily responsible for the 2016 and 2017 Clippers' drafts, names like Brice Johnson, Diamond Stone, David Michineau, Jawun Evans, and Sindarius Thornwell are not exactly needle-movers as of yet even if it is notably better than the days of Reggie Bullock and C.J. Wilcox. And this is coming from a guy who likes Johnson and Evans. I also defended the drafting of Stone at his draft position, though not actually the trading down to get there, and found the Thornwell pick to be reasonable.

The elevation of Frank coincided with our devoting more resources to the draft process while also seemingly having the organization place a higher value on draft picks in general. Those factors and the recent haul we received from Houston in response to Chris Paul's departure has me accepting of Frank in his new role, but as Quake Griffin noted earlier in this thread, I am concerned about him being insulated from Doc. Adding new faces from other organizations should help alleviate such concerns, especially in light of Doc no longer having final say in front office matters.

[QRich3]

And it's not that I'm down on Olshey so much as that I think a lot of folks just thought anything would be better than Doc. I'll give Olshey all the credit in the world for the CP trade and scooping up Bledsoe, but the rest of these moves range from meh to lousy.

And of course, again, I was speaking more of what Olshey's done in Portland. TO Portland. But looking back at Olshey's record here as a result of your praise of him, it's less credible than I remembered.

If I'm not mistaken, DJ, EJ and Blake were Dunleavy's picks, not his. I guess you could say he had some influence as an assistant GM, but not sure I'd use that to judge him as a GM.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of going through the drafts and judge GM's by how good the picks after his were. I think it's not a very useful way of evaluating someone's performance cause it ignores so many things out of their control that happened after the fact. In general, I don't like listing single moves and use hindsight to decide how good he was, he did small stuff that's not seen as defining moves but was really important at the time, like getting Billups off amnesty waivers and other cheap pieces that fit well around the core, like Evans, Martin, or yeah, the Nick Young move. Stuff like adding Butler and Billups was really important in convincing Paul to come too. And the thing that impressed me the most about Bledsoe's trade is not that Bledsoe became a good player, but that he went so out of his way to take the risk in getting him. I like stuff like that whether it ends up panning out or not.

And he has done well in Portland overall, he misjudged the use of capspace last summer, but the idea of going all in in the one summer you'll be able to add significant pieces for the rest of Lillard's prime had merit. But pretty much everything the Blazers have nowadays is because he built it, so I'd be happy with him if I was a Blazers fan.

[esqtvd]

And it's not that I'm down on Olshey so much as that I think a lot of folks just thought anything would be better than Doc. I'll give Olshey all the credit in the world for the CP trade and scooping up Bledsoe, but the rest of these moves range from meh to lousy.

And of course, again, I was speaking more of what Olshey's done in Portland. TO Portland. But looking back at Olshey's record here as a result of your praise of him, it's less credible than I remembered.

If I'm not mistaken, DJ, EJ and Blake were Dunleavy's picks, not his. I guess you could say he had some influence as an assistant GM, but not sure I'd use that to judge him as a GM.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of going through the drafts and judge GM's by how good the picks after his were. I think it's not a very useful way of evaluating someone's performance cause it ignores so many things out of their control that happened after the fact. In general, I don't like listing single moves and use hindsight to decide how good he was, he did small stuff that's not seen as defining moves but was really important at the time, like getting Billups off amnesty waivers and other cheap pieces that fit well around the core, like Evans, Martin, or yeah, the Nick Young move. Stuff like adding Butler and Billups was really important in convincing Paul to come too. And the thing that impressed me the most about Bledsoe's trade is not that Bledsoe became a good player, but that he went so out of his way to take the risk in getting him. I like stuff like that whether it ends up panning out or not.

And he has done well in Portland overall, he misjudged the use of capspace last summer, but the idea of going all in in the one summer you'll be able to add significant pieces for the rest of Lillard's prime had merit. But pretty much everything the Blazers have nowadays is because he built it, so I'd be happy with him if I was a Blazers fan.

I don't hate Olshey. it's a tough job. Not impressed either, though. And the major screwups [Aminu, not protecting the Kyrie pick] were worse than any of Doc's. Not to mention the near-disastrous Crabbe and Evan Turner signings up in Portland.

I liked the Reggie Evans move a lot though, even though he was summarily dumped 6 months later.

[QRich3]

It's official

Read on Twitter

[donemilio21]

it says he is 37, joined Thunder in 2010, and worked for Cavs 5 years prior to that. So he has been working for an NBA front office since he was 25. I really want to know who did know, where did he apply etc. to get the job.

[MartinToVaught]

Who is Mike Winger?

• Winger was hired by the Cavaliers in 2005. He was the manager of basketball operations and chief legal counsel for the team. He also filled a role of salary cap expert, which was primarily Rich Cho’s role with the Thunder.
• Winger’s education: He achieved his undergraduate degree from the University of Miami in 2002, went to Toledo Law School until 2004 and then finished and achieved his juris doctorate from the University of Maryland in 2005.
• Winger is a fan of RealGM. In an interview with Darren Rovell of CNBC, he said, “In trade discussions internally and externally, it creates options for us in aggregating salaries. So rather than brainstorming and asking the question, ‘does this work?’ the software’s functionality displays all of the deals that work based on certain parameters we might select such as positions, players, salaries, etc.”
• His first (and only other) job was working as an assistant to agent, author and superlawyer Ron Shapiro at the Shapiro Negotiations Institute.
• After Danny Ferry left, Winger took on a larger role. He was strictly the team’s legal counsel, but started talking to agents, working on contracts and earned more responsibility under new GM Chris Grant. You know, kind of like an assistant GM or something.

http://dailythunder.com/who-is-mike-winger/

[MartinToVaught]

Remember when the Thunder structured Nick Collison's contract extension so creatively in 2010 that he earned $13 million one season and $3 million the next? That was Winger's creation.

http://newsok.com/article/5408924

[Ranma]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[JGOJustin]

Had no idea he was that young