2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers

[tydett]

GOT

Spoiler:

Sometimes you gotta put away the over analyzing hat and just enjoy something that is presented in an overwhelmingly entertaining way. Plot hole? Implausibility? For sure. But ladies and gents, we're watching a show about dragons and an undead ice zombie army in a fictional fantasy land with prophecies, curses, spells etc. Its fantasy entertainment and quite honestly the best fantasy story that's ever been told. With so few episodes left I'm focusing on enjoying the ride.

ETA: The top 5 GOT deaths that have most **** me up in order:

1) Hodor
2) Any of the direwolves
3) The giant from the battle of the bastards
4) Viserion
5) Ned

Jon Snow initially made the list but I quickly realized he wasn't dead dead. Oddly I wasn't really bothered much by the red wedding as Robb was super annoying in his bad decision making.

Agree with all of this. I started listening to a GOT podcast last week on a long drive to Nashville and had to turn it off after 15 mins because of the overanalyzing.

I enjoyed this episode immensely, was on the edge of my seat.

I think I can appreciate GOT more comparing it to **** booking/storylines like WWE.

We've had 6 seasons worth of slow build. The fuse has been burning long enough, it's time for **** to explode. I'm enjoying the pacing immensely. There's no filler, every scene and conversation means something now.

Spoiler:

See, we really missed the conversation where Sansa went to Bran and said "Yo, all-seeing brother who knew how beautiful I was the night I got raped, Arya is acting weird. What's up with her?"

That's literally the only scene that would make sense of whatever the **** they're trying to do with Winterfell. It's some Dorne-level writing at this point for those scenes.

[emunney]

Agree with all of this. I started listening to a GOT podcast last week on a long drive to Nashville and had to turn it off after 15 mins because of the overanalyzing.

I enjoyed this episode immensely, was on the edge of my seat.

I think I can appreciate GOT more comparing it to **** booking/storylines like WWE.

We've had 6 seasons worth of slow build. The fuse has been burning long enough, it's time for **** to explode. I'm enjoying the pacing immensely. There's no filler, every scene and conversation means something now.

Spoiler:

See, we really missed the conversation where Sansa went to Bran and said "Yo, all-seeing brother who knew how beautiful I was the night I got raped, Arya is acting weird. What's up with her?"

That's literally the only scene that would make sense of whatever the **** they're trying to do with Winterfell. It's some Dorne-level writing at this point for those scenes.

Spoiler:

Yeah, I also don't feel like every scene means something now. If anything I feel like the conversations between the action are more glib than ever before.

[emunney]

There's a false dilemma here between fast pace and organic plot.

[jimmybones]

GoT

Spoiler:

I don't mind the BenJen save at all. Isn't his entire purpose kinda just roaming the area north of the Wall? It doesn't seem far fetched at all to me that he scouted what was going on at some point and intervened at a point where Jon clearly needed it.

I do agree that the wight plan was really stupid. No horses? Or exit plan at all? I agree with others that Dany simply being at Eastwatch would have made a lot of sense and made it the botched timeline part a lot easier to swallow.

And not that I give them a total pass. But the fact that these dudes took on job to bring an existing story to life, not create the story,
gives me a lot of empathy for them not being able to deliver the same creativity that made GoT what it is in the first place. The actual creator still hasn't finished the thing and these guys have a lot less time to write, and a lot higher stakes, now that the show is a huge thing.

Even with all that. I'm still very invested.

[KidA24]

GoT

Spoiler:

I do agree that the wight plan was really stupid. No horses? Or exit plan at all? I agree with others that Dany simply being at Eastwatch would have made a lot of sense and made it the botched timeline part a lot easier to swallow.

Spoiler:

Or you know, some ravens. How everyone communicates over distance there.

[RRyder823]

I'm genually suprised so many are giving the show runners a pass for GRRM not supplying them with ready made material.

They still have the major plot points to follow. Profesional writers and producers shouldn't be given a pass for not being able to fill in the blanks in a way that makes any kind of sense.

If they can't come up with an original thought on their own they shouldn't have been allowed to do the show in the first place

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using RealGM mobile app

[jimmybones]

I don't see many people giving a pass. I see a lot of people pointing out what they see as flaws, but acknowledging they are in a kinda f'd spot.

GoT

Spoiler:

I do agree that the wight plan was really stupid. No horses? Or exit plan at all? I agree with others that Dany simply being at Eastwatch would have made a lot of sense and made it the botched timeline part a lot easier to swallow.

Spoiler:

Or you know, some ravens. How everyone communicates over distance there.

Take ravens with them? I thought maester's were the only ones who could control ravens?

[WeekapaugGroove]

GOT

Spoiler:

First off the complaints about the writing are fair.

Now I think some of the complaints about timelines earlier this season were a little overblown. I was under the assumption that an appropriate amount of travel time was just not being shown and in a way I was happy about that because we've spent enough time showing people on boats getting places. But the whole Gendry, raven, fly back up to the wall thing in like a day was ridiculous and deserved some criticism. Heck if it was that quick and easy to go up there why didn't Dany just fly up with a dragon earlier and confirm the white walkers. Also once one of the extras in that Jon Snow raiding party got killed why didn't they just take that person's body back as they would turn into an undead?

Overall I'm still enjoying it... well except for Bran I really hate the Bran character and it would take a miracle to salvage that story line.

[jimmybones]

GOT

Spoiler:

First off the complaints about the writing are fair.

Now I think some of the complaints about timelines earlier this season were a little overblown. I was under the assumption that an appropriate amount of travel time was just not being shown and in a way I was happy about that because we've spent enough time showing people on boats getting places. But the whole Gendry, raven, fly back up to the wall thing in like a day was ridiculous and deserved some criticism. Heck if it was that quick and easy to go up there why didn't Dany just fly up with a dragon earlier and confirm the white walkers. Also once one of the extras in that Jon Snow raiding party got killed why didn't they just take that person's body back as they would turn into an undead?

Overall I'm still enjoying it... well except for Bran I really hate the Bran character and it would take a miracle to salvage that story line.

Spoiler:

I don't think they randomly turn after dying, like The Walking Dead. The Night King turns them.

[El Duderino]

GOT

Spoiler:

First off the complaints about the writing are fair.

Now I think some of the complaints about timelines earlier this season were a little overblown. I was under the assumption that an appropriate amount of travel time was just not being shown and in a way I was happy about that because we've spent enough time showing people on boats getting places. But the whole Gendry, raven, fly back up to the wall thing in like a day was ridiculous and deserved some criticism. Heck if it was that quick and easy to go up there why didn't Dany just fly up with a dragon earlier and confirm the white walkers. Also once one of the extras in that Jon Snow raiding party got killed why didn't they just take that person's body back as they would turn into an undead?

Overall I'm still enjoying it... well except for Bran I really hate the Bran character and it would take a miracle to salvage that story line.

Spoiler:

One thing that struck me as silly that nobody has mentioned is how seven guys managed to fend off a mass swarm of walkers once they got across the ice? There were at least hundreds of them. Those were some really incompetent fighting walkers.

Another thing which while i was watching is why didn't Beric Dondarrion just use his fire sword to cut the ice in front of the rock piece they were standing on to slow down the walkers as they were coming across the now frozen enough ice?

[WRau1]

GOT

Spoiler:

First off the complaints about the writing are fair.

Now I think some of the complaints about timelines earlier this season were a little overblown. I was under the assumption that an appropriate amount of travel time was just not being shown and in a way I was happy about that because we've spent enough time showing people on boats getting places. But the whole Gendry, raven, fly back up to the wall thing in like a day was ridiculous and deserved some criticism. Heck if it was that quick and easy to go up there why didn't Dany just fly up with a dragon earlier and confirm the white walkers. Also once one of the extras in that Jon Snow raiding party got killed why didn't they just take that person's body back as they would turn into an undead?

Overall I'm still enjoying it... well except for Bran I really hate the Bran character and it would take a miracle to salvage that story line.

Spoiler:

One thing that struck me as silly that nobody has mentioned is how seven guys managed to fend off a mass swarm of walkers once they got across the ice? There were at least hundreds of them. Those were some really incompetent fighting walkers.

Another thing which while i was watching is why didn't Beric Dondarrion just use his fire sword to cut the ice in front of the rock piece they were standing on to slow down the walkers as they were coming across the now frozen enough ice?

Spoiler:

I mean, we're not talking about some random people fighting off hordes of undead, these are literally some of the greatest fighters still alive in ASOIAF lore.

[WRau1]

I find it hilarious that in a show about dragons, magic and undead, people draw the line at realistic travel times.

[humanrefutation]

I find it hilarious that in a show about dragons, magic and undead, people draw the line at realistic travel times.

This is such a red herring. People are objecting to story where an established narrative and understanding is being upended by the way the plot is being moved towards its resolution.

Spoiler:

If it was established that people could travel through Westeros this quickly, then fine. If it was established that ravens could fly thousands of miles southward to Dragonstone in the manner of a few hours, fine. If it was established the map is actually smaller than it has been depicted, fine. But none of that has been established. In fact, what is being critiqued is that all of that intricate detail is being unraveled by silly plot contrivances.

If you don't have a problem with it, fine. But don't belittle people who do.

[Turk Nowitzki]

I find it hilarious that in a show about dragons, magic and undead, people draw the line at realistic travel times.

You aren't the first person to throw this hot take out there. You can watch a show however you like of course and take from it what you want, but this particular line makes me think that anyone who says it doesn't have any concept of why people consider this a great show and are disappointed in recent episodes.

[emunney]

I find it hilarious that in a show about dragons, magic and undead, people draw the line at realistic travel times.

Do you watch the show and if so have you ever described it this way to someone who doesn't?

Would you be happy if at the end of the show, it was revealed that all of the characters were actually one character? I would think so since there are also dragons.

[Siefer]

It's a common enough response to the criticism, but a weird amalgam of misunderstandings.

Even fantasy worlds have rules, and often they have a great many rules in common with the real world. Take for example:

Spoiler:

The discovery that killing a White Walker kills the wights under its control.

In the above example, the rule is established in a sensible way, and treated as a discovery. The characters didn't know it before, learned about it in a believable way, and can now apply that knowledge in the future.

Folks aren't complaining about elements of the fantasy world that have been established (dragons, magic, and the undead), nor are they complaining about new rules that have recently been established. Folks are complaining about structural problems with the narrative, and the fast and loose handling of established rules.

TVTropes explains this well.

Viewers are usually willing to go along with creative explanations which is why people don't criticize your wormhole travel system or how a shrinking potion doesn't violate the laws of matter conservation, but even in the more fantastical genres, suspension of disbelief can be broken when a work breaks its own established laws or asks the audience to put up with too many things that come off as contrived.

[Iheartfootball]

Honestly, the blame probably falls at the feet of the viewers and HBO. It's a costly show to produce, if you want it last as many seasons as it takes to wrap it all up they would have to no doubt increase the monthly subscription rates. It doesn't help that people illegally watch the show and they don't see that revenue. HBO execs probably told show runners you have X amount of episodes to wrap this up and this is the best they could do.

[humanrefutation]

Honestly, the blame probably falls at the feet of the viewers and HBO. It's a costly show to produce, if you want it last as many seasons as it takes to wrap it all up they would have to no doubt increase the monthly subscription rates. It doesn't help that people illegally watch the show and they don't see that revenue. HBO execs probably told show runners you have X amount of episodes to wrap this up and this is the best they could do.

You might be right about HBO putting the screws to the showrunners, but I don't buy that rationale. It's not like they didn't know how complicated the plot was when they first started the show. Don't commit to the start if you can't commit to the finish.

And HBO's parent company, Time Warner, is likely to crack $6 Billion in PROFIT during 2017. I find it hard to believe that HBO couldn't have financed another 6-8 episodes to help the final couple seasons wrap up at a more reasonable pace (which would also earn more revenue from HBO for subscribers who only signed up to watch GOT and will cancel when the season is over).

Maybe B&W didn't want to commit to two full seasons, but that's on them.

[Siefer]

Honestly, the blame probably falls at the feet of the viewers and HBO. It's a costly show to produce, if you want it last as many seasons as it takes to wrap it all up they would have to no doubt increase the monthly subscription rates. It doesn't help that people illegally watch the show and they don't see that revenue. HBO execs probably told show runners you have X amount of episodes to wrap this up and this is the best they could do.

We know that's not what happened, though. HBO would have loved for this to go on for more than 73 episodes. This season could have easily been 10 episodes long, and it would have still moved at a good clip. I suspect D&D are closing up shop because they ran out of source material, and have decided that the safest path is to focus on hitting the bullet points GRRM gave them. Remember, they signed up to adapt A Song of Ice and Fire, not finish it from scratch. The quality has consistently dipped every time D&D have gone it alone, and I think they know it. Now, they're just trying to finish the damn thing with as little difficulty as possible.

[DingleJerry]

Keep in mind these last two seasons are fixing to be very expensive to produce due to all the CGI of the dragons, white walkers, etc. That stuff popped up here and there before, now it's every episode and battles between different CGI elements. It might be costing them just as much to do 6 episodes this way as it was to do 10 before. Still, this show seems profitable so no need to cut corners, but business is business and they'll essentially get the same income for 15ish episodes as they would have for 20. But this way they save the cost of the other 5 to help the bottom line.