ATL - Kyrie Dealt to Boston for IT, Crowder, Nets pick, etc Pg 87

hege53190 · Post #1921 » by **hege53190** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:44 am

midranger wrote:
Nowak008 wrote:So who is up for trading Mid for Crowder + Brooklyn pick?

The debate rages on

I like Mids more than most. I usually think every mids trade is light because he has much more value. However if this is on the table I can not say Yes fast enough.

Then again I like Crowder more than most and I love future draft capital.

Magic Giannison · Post #1922 » by **Magic Giannison** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:57 am

This is highway robbery for the Cavs, they gave a 2 year loan of Kyrie for IT JC , crazy pick and Zizic. No way its good for Boston and i like it.

brettski · Post #1923 » by **brettski** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:04 am

drone3 wrote:For some reason I have a feeling Rose is going to start for the Cavs with IT off the bench.

You'd be wrong... unless you think Rose can space the floor for Lebron...

Plossum · Post #1924 » by **Plossum** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:10 am

blazza18 wrote:Cavs aren't beating anyone out west with Thomas, Rose, Wade, and Love in their rotation.

Kevin Love really isn't that bad of a defender (dare I say he's a plus these days). He certainly doesn't belong with the others.

trwi7 · Post #1925 » by **trwi7** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:13 am

ElPeregrino wrote:I understand that argument but I'm betting Giannis is with us 5 years from now. As it stands at this very moment, the Bucks have a better chance to win the Finals five years from now or 10 years from now than they do this season (which is 0%).

If you trade your second best player for a pick next year you made your team worse this year. The chances of an 19 year old rookie being more productive than Middleton next year is slim to none. At that point, you're banking on a huge second year leap when Giannis only has two more years left on his deal. If that leap doesn't happen, Giannis is as good as gone.

This is why so many of us wanted to tank in 2015-16 when we had the 7th worst record and were within striking distance of the 6th worst record and maybe 5th. It's why so many of us keep talking about taking MCW instead of the Lakers pick. That was the time to accumulate as many future assets as possible while feeling pretty good about a Giannis/Middleton/Parker core. They instead wanted to chase every last win.

blazza18 · Post #1926 » by **blazza18** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:14 am

Plossum wrote:
blazza18 wrote:Cavs aren't beating anyone out west with Thomas, Rose, Wade, and Love in their rotation.

Kevin Love really isn't that bad of a defender (dare I say he's a plus these days). He certainly doesn't belong with the others.

He tries. He's still not good.

Plossum · Post #1927 » by **Plossum** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:18 am

His RAPM and RPM numbers are very solid defensively and appear to have been for a while now. He's not a guy you'd build you D around but he clearly plays his role well within the defensive scheme at Cleveland.

AussieBuck · Post #1928 » by **AussieBuck** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:31 am

Love had improved a lot on D but that warriors matchup still isn't good for him.

Love this deal, Boston don't get another top prospect and cap themselves out. Cavs, eh, didn't do enough to make LeBron want to stay and there's not much to worried about when he's gone. Good long term trade for us.

AussieBuck · Post #1929 » by **AussieBuck** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:37 am

Is there a feasible win now trade for that Nets pick out there that improves the Cavs enough to challenge the Warriors?

trwi7 · Post #1930 » by **trwi7** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:49 am

AussieBuck wrote:Is there a feasible win now trade for that Nets pick out there that improves the Cavs enough to challenge the Warriors?

I'm guessing the Celtics shopped it around hard and the only thing they could come up with was Kyrie. Unless there's an amazing player that's secretly available that the team wanted multiple picks and prospects for and the Celtics balked but even then, the Cavs don't have the assets that Boston has that they would be able to make a deal.

I think the Cavs keep the pick as LeBron insurance if he leaves and they probably feel they got better or at least didn't get any worse by adding IT and Crowder.

stellation · Post #1931 » by **stellation** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:06 am

Bucksfan28 wrote:Incredible deal for Cleveland. Like GOS said, adding Crowder is beneficial to their matchup with GS.

Aside from Hayward, I don't like what Boston has done this offseason.

They signed Aron **** Baynes. That's an A+ season every time.

Chuck Diesel · Post #1932 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:28 am

stellation wrote:
Bucksfan28 wrote:Incredible deal for Cleveland. Like GOS said, adding Crowder is beneficial to their matchup with GS.

Aside from Hayward, I don't like what Boston has done this offseason.

They signed Aron **** Baynes. That's an A+ season every time.

Poor man's Luke Schenscher.

stellation · Post #1933 » by **stellation** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:40 am

Chuck Diesel wrote:
stellation wrote:
Bucksfan28 wrote:Incredible deal for Cleveland. Like GOS said, adding Crowder is beneficial to their matchup with GS.

Aside from Hayward, I don't like what Boston has done this offseason.

They signed Aron **** Baynes. That's an A+ season every time.

Poor man's Luke Schenscher.

Jarret Jack owes a lengthy NBA career to that remarkable offspring of Gumby and Ronald McDonald.

SKG · Post #1934 » by **SKG** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:06 am

I think its a good trade for both teams, celtics probably didnt want to give thomas a 130m contract next year anyway

drone3 · Post #1935 » by **drone3** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:30 am

SKG wrote:I think its a good trade for both teams, celtics probably didnt want to give thomas a 130m contract next year anyway

There are alot of unknowns in the trade

1. Will Kyrie stay after 2 years
2. Will the Draft pick turn out good
3. Will ITs hip be an issue
4. Will Cavs even want to give IT the max
5. Will Crowder still make his shots
6. Will Zizic just be another Pekovich

RogerMurdock · Post #1936 » by **RogerMurdock** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:14 am

There's a basketball movie filming here in Atlanta and there are several current and former players in it, as far as I can tell from the casting calls. Yesterday, there was a casting call for a photo double for Kyrie Irving (despite their blurring out of his face, I could tell it was him because I'm just that good).

I WAS going to try to get cast in the film and then cozy up to him to get the inside scoop for all of you, but I'll be damned if Boston didn't steal my thunder.

Fotis St · Post #1937 » by **Fotis St** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:09 pm

Boston got their all star starter for the present and future. Good for them. Kyrie had Boston in his list per Griffin. Kyrie will resign. Boston are the winners of the trade longterm. Where Brooklyn's pick land? ... Unsure... Bulls, Hawks are tanking hard. Sixers? Suns, Brooklyn,Sacramento? I guess it is a top 6 pick.

Cavs took IT and I think they will probably offer him an extension right now. Cavs have a chance to win it all this year, for sure. Crowder is a very good role player. Cavs rely their future on Brooklyn's pick which is perfect if they get No#1.

Both teams got what they want.
Kyrie got what he wanted too.

Boston's future

Kyrie,Tatum,Hayward (Big3)
Smart,Brown,Semi
+ future picks

I believe Boston's starting 5 is
Kyrie,Tatum,Hayward,Morris,Horford
Maybe Tatum comes off the bench and Brown starts, but I think as the go deep into the season Tatum will gain a starting role.

Tatum has some Kobe in him.

Bucks road to win the East is harder post trade

Rockmaninoff · Post #1938 » by **Rockmaninoff** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:15 pm

Baddy Chuck wrote:So would people trade Midds and Brogdon for the Nets pick, IT and Crowder? Just wondering.

Yes.

pifhluk23 · Post #1939 » by **pifhluk23** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:19 pm

Seems like a huge win for Cleveland. If they want to go all in they have a huge asset now in that Brooklyn pick, Crowder is a great fit as well. How long before they can trade IT? There is no one for him to guard when Curry and Thompson are on the floor.

skones · Post #1940 » by **skones** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:14 pm

jakecronus8 wrote:
skones wrote:
jakecronus8 wrote:
In a New York minute.

How many guys taken in 2014 are currently better than Middleton?

Interesting that three full seasons have been played (ie the same amount of time that would elapse until Giannis is a free agent) and the answer is ONE that would actually help Milwaukee win more games in Jokic.

Feel free to do the same tests for 2013, 2012, and 2011, and tell me in which year they reached "better." Go ahead, I'll wait.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have Jabari in this trade over Middleton by a long shot, but dude's knee explosions ruined that idea.

Milwaukee has to play the long game. Right now Middleton is on a very good deal, but will be paid after next season. Meanwhile, this upcoming draft has an unreal list of guys in the top 5. A but risky for sure but we won't contend for a few years anyway, and I want to have a clean cap and unquestioned core when that time comes.

A lot of it depends on if you think Brooklyn is going to be bad enough to secure a top 5 pick and if you believe in this draft. I think Brooklyn got worse. Traded their best player in exchange for a talented knuckle head. And long term I'd take Bamba, Bagley, Doncic, Porter, and Ayton over Middleton (in that order).

Right but answer my question, which you skirted around.

You're taking a significant step back from Middleton in a deal if he's outgoing in exchange for a pick. You can't afford to play the long game when you've got a game changing player like Giannis who's ready to win, and he's ready to win now. Do you think he's going to be ok with dealing a guy who's easily our second best player and getting told, "Wait on this guy, we think he'll be good in three or more years?"

Answer: No, and CERTAINLY NOT if that guy doesn't hit. That's why dealing Middleton for a pick is just about the dumbest thing we can do. The obsession with a youth movement here given our current circumstances is mindboggling to me. It's not 2015 anymore. At some point you have to try to consistently get better by adding and upgrading pieces in the immediate rather than putting your team in a state of perpetual rebuild.