Shams: Cleveland and Boston have agreement on deal to send Kyrie Irving to the Celtics for Isaiah Thomas package to Cavs

[slothrop8]

double post

[TerryTate]

I am not sure Boston is even that much better than us. I would think we are pretty much on par now.

I would even agree with this statement, and I thought Raptors wouldn't even be in the top 5.

I feel Boston's success depends on how well Tatum and Brown integrate and succeed, just as the raps success will be depending on growth from Powell, Wright and our whomever our backup big either .... Poetl/Siakam.

[protothe]

Is anybody actually scared of a Kyrie, Horford and Hayward "big 3"....?

I know I'm not. I've been saying for a while that Boston will regress, and now I think it's certain.

The Cavs gained some interesting lineup combinations.
The Lebron + shooters lineup might be insane:

IT
JR
Crowder
Lebron
Love

People also aren't mentioning Zizic, but I have a feeling he might turn out to be a pretty decent player himself.
Cleveland needed size in certain stretches, and he is more talented offensively than Tristan.

Amazing trade for the Cavs. Even if the team flames out this year, that Nets pick sets them up nicely.

[CoachD]

i really disagree with the cleveland analysis, but a lot of great points and i comoletlely agree with the boston side - avery, jae, kelly, amir, tyler could all be greatly missed.

for cleveland i think IT s health is really only concern.

if he is healthy he is a great scorer that can take over and not force lebron to carry so much.... same thing with crowder on the defensive end.

thompson
love
crowder
jr/shump/rose
IT

could easily go on runs with lebron actually getting a rest

What did I say in my Cleveland analysis that is fundamentally untrue?

nothing which of these are fundamentally untrue:


crowder is great defensive player and will take demands off of lebron on that end

thomas is a top 5 scorer in the east and will take the demands off of lebron on O

a lineup of thompson, love, crowder, IT, then the best fit/ player of jr/shump/korver/rose/green/osman... would do quite well with lebron on the bench vs a majority of the cavs opposition for signifant stretches


the nets pick could end up being bagley, porter, doncic, ayton who could end up being an amazing peice beside lebron for his last portion of his career



like i said, great post is just disagree and think the cavs got an amazing haul to improve their team overall

Your points are accurate in a 2K vacuum. In real life though, personalities get in the way. Crowder won't start and will see the role of a specialist. When he does play he will likely be a small ball 4 (which he has stated he hates) or play a few minutes when Lebron sits.

The Cavs were historically awful whenever Lebron sat. I don't believe this trade changes that at all.

[tosi]

I am not sure Boston is even that much better than us. I would think we are pretty much on par now.

I would even agree with this statement, and I thought Raptors wouldn't even be in the top 5.

I feel Boston's success depends on how well Tatum and Brown integrate and succeed, just as the raps success will be depending on growth from Powell, Wright and our whomever our backup big either .... Poetl/Siakam.

Agreed. Its really depends on how our benches grow during the year.

I don't get why people think Kyrie, Hayward and Horford is that much better than our three.

[T-d0t]

next step is for the Cavs to go for it packaging that pick along with one of the plethora of guards that they have and maybe even Love as well to get a superstar.

[Lukeem]

What did I say in my Cleveland analysis that is fundamentally untrue?

nothing which of these are fundamentally untrue:


crowder is great defensive player and will take demands off of lebron on that end

thomas is a top 5 scorer in the east and will take the demands off of lebron on O

a lineup of thompson, love, crowder, IT, then the best fit/ player of jr/shump/korver/rose/green/osman... would do quite well with lebron on the bench vs a majority of the cavs opposition for signifant stretches


the nets pick could end up being bagley, porter, doncic, ayton who could end up being an amazing peice beside lebron for his last portion of his career



like i said, great post is just disagree and think the cavs got an amazing haul to improve their team overall

Your points are accurate in a 2K vacuum. In real life though, personalities get in the way. Crowder won't start and will see the role of a specialist. When he does play he will likely be a small ball 4 (which he has stated he hates) or play a few minutes when Lebron sits.

The Cavs were historically awful whenever Lebron sat. I don't believe this trade changes that at all.

i think crowder should start or get starter mins but not whine about not starting over greayest sf of all time

and you think a line of thompson love crowder thomas shump/jr/ would be historically bad?

[CoachD]

nothing which of these are fundamentally untrue:


crowder is great defensive player and will take demands off of lebron on that end

thomas is a top 5 scorer in the east and will take the demands off of lebron on O

a lineup of thompson, love, crowder, IT, then the best fit/ player of jr/shump/korver/rose/green/osman... would do quite well with lebron on the bench vs a majority of the cavs opposition for signifant stretches


the nets pick could end up being bagley, porter, doncic, ayton who could end up being an amazing peice beside lebron for his last portion of his career



like i said, great post is just disagree and think the cavs got an amazing haul to improve their team overall

Your points are accurate in a 2K vacuum. In real life though, personalities get in the way. Crowder won't start and will see the role of a specialist. When he does play he will likely be a small ball 4 (which he has stated he hates) or play a few minutes when Lebron sits.

The Cavs were historically awful whenever Lebron sat. I don't believe this trade changes that at all.

i think crowder should start or get starter mins but not whine about not starting over greayest sf of all time

and you think a line of thompson love crowder thomas shump/jr/ would be historically bad?

Well with Shump in that mix you have horrible spacing. With JR, you obviously have more. Crowder gives you very inconsistent offence and Thompson gives you nothing.

But that wasn't my point.

I said, LAST YEAR without Lebron on the floor they were historically bad. I don't see this group being significantly better

[Kurtz]

Perhaps Boston is a shade better now, but they completely blew their opportunity to become a super-team for the next few years. 1st overall+BKN pick+Crowder+all that cap room they had should have been more enough to get Butler and George, while retaining IT and Bradley.
IT-Bradley-Butler-George-Horford would have been a monster lineup offensively and defensively that would have easily trumped Cle and would be on par with GSW.

Instead, they went for the safe play that will likely ensure that they're a very good but not great team for the long-haul.

[rapcity10]

I would even agree with this statement, and I thought Raptors wouldn't even be in the top 5.

I feel Boston's success depends on how well Tatum and Brown integrate and succeed, just as the raps success will be depending on growth from Powell, Wright and our whomever our backup big either .... Poetl/Siakam.

Agreed. Its really depends on how our benches grow during the year.

I don't get why people think Kyrie, Hayward and Horford is that much better than our three.

It comes down to this Brad Stevens has a lot of pure and naturally talented and skilled players on this team compared to years past. He makes teams and players look better than they are. He took a mediocore and average team last year, led by a 5 9 and 6 3 size starting backcourt to the best record in the east, ECF, and 53 wins. They added Kyrie, Tatum, Baynes, Semi, Morris, and Hayward. There so much more talented than us it's not even funny. Brad Stevens will run circles around Casey. Can you imagine what Brad Stevens can do when he finally has this much talent to work with? There prospects have way higher ceilings than ours, like way way highers. And their big three blows our "big three" out the doors. Kyrie is a different animal come playoff time. They have 2 top 20 players, and another top 30 player, with a top 3 head coach in this league.

[rapcity10]

I just don't get something, if we were in bostons position, we would be creating threads about how many finals were going to make in the next 5 years. It amazes me. If we switched rosters with the celtics and switched coaches as well, you guys would be creaming your pants.

[Lukeem]

Your points are accurate in a 2K vacuum. In real life though, personalities get in the way. Crowder won't start and will see the role of a specialist. When he does play he will likely be a small ball 4 (which he has stated he hates) or play a few minutes when Lebron sits.

The Cavs were historically awful whenever Lebron sat. I don't believe this trade changes that at all.

i think crowder should start or get starter mins but not whine about not starting over greayest sf of all time

and you think a line of thompson love crowder thomas shump/jr/ would be historically bad?

Well with Shump in that mix you have horrible spacing. With JR, you obviously have more. Crowder gives you very inconsistent offence and Thompson gives you nothing.

But that wasn't my point.

I said, LAST YEAR without Lebron on the floor they were historically bad. I don't see this group being significantly better

youre saying that last year minues lebron was awful im showing a line that i believe could do great in the east without lebron

if you disagree fine.... no way of telling for sure till it happens

[CoachD]

i think crowder should start or get starter mins but not whine about not starting over greayest sf of all time

and you think a line of thompson love crowder thomas shump/jr/ would be historically bad?

Well with Shump in that mix you have horrible spacing. With JR, you obviously have more. Crowder gives you very inconsistent offence and Thompson gives you nothing.

But that wasn't my point.

I said, LAST YEAR without Lebron on the floor they were historically bad. I don't see this group being significantly better

youre saying that last year minues lebron was awful im showing a line that i believe could do great in the east without lebron

if you disagree fine.... no way of telling for sure till it happens

Would that lineup be ok in the East?
Sure.

Will it get you the #1?
No.

Will it be nearly as effective as the versions WITH Lebron?
No. Therefore, you won't see lineups like that often.

[nabbs]

KEvin Love and the pick would be my guess to go after a big gun. If the New Orleans experiment is failing by the deadline then I could totally see Cousins for Kevin Love and the BKN pick.

Another point I would like to add is that this deal is agreed to in principle. If a medical evaluation reveals IT's hip to be more debilitating than they previously though, the trade will be void, no?

[Lukeem]

Well with Shump in that mix you have horrible spacing. With JR, you obviously have more. Crowder gives you very inconsistent offence and Thompson gives you nothing.

But that wasn't my point.

I said, LAST YEAR without Lebron on the floor they were historically bad. I don't see this group being significantly better

youre saying that last year minues lebron was awful im showing a line that i believe could do great in the east without lebron

if you disagree fine.... no way of telling for sure till it happens

Would that lineup be ok in the East?
Sure.

Will it get you the #1?
No.

Will it be nearly as effective as the versions WITH Lebron?
No. Therefore, you won't see lineups like that often.

all id be asking is


would that lineup be able to maintain or add to leads for a majority of the season in small stints when lebron rests?

[CoachD]

youre saying that last year minues lebron was awful im showing a line that i believe could do great in the east without lebron

if you disagree fine.... no way of telling for sure till it happens

Would that lineup be ok in the East?
Sure.

Will it get you the #1?
No.

Will it be nearly as effective as the versions WITH Lebron?
No. Therefore, you won't see lineups like that often.

all id be asking is


would that lineup be able to maintain or add to leads for a majority of the season in small stints when lebron rests?

My gut instinct is no, but nobody really knows right now

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

Cle has one more year then who knows where LeBron goes. let's hope it's here. But at that point the clear place for vets to go to try and win in this conference will be Boston, as Clev takes the pick Celtics gave them and rebuilds after LeBron leaves.
And for draft assets Boston will still have:

2018
Los Angeles Lakers (If pick falls between spots 2-5)
Boston Celtics’ own pick

2019
Philadelphia 76ers or Sacramento Kings (If the Lakers’ 2018 pick falls outside 2-5, Boston will instead have a choice between Philadelphia’s top-1 protected pick or Sacramento’s top-1 protected pick in 2019)
Memphis Grizzlies (If pick falls outside top-8)
Los Angeles Clippers (If pick falls outside top-14)
Boston Celtics’ own pick

2020
Memphis Grizzlies (If pick has not yet been conveyed and falls outside top-6)
Los Angeles Clippers (If pick has not yet been conveyed and falls outside top-14)
Boston Celtics’ own pick

2021
Memphis Grizzlies (If pick has not yet been conveyed. Pick would be unprotected)
Boston Celtics’ own pick

Why do we act like they are done and have used their assets? We are the team with no pick next year. Not the Celtics

We are the team with no way to add more talent, and may have a hard time keeping our young guys who may deserve a 2nd contract.

We are the team that thinks losing Patterson on a value deal is great because he's getting his knee scoped, while drafting a guy coming off an ACL injury, who will likely not even be ready to start the year, with Bruno behind him, and still thinks ECF are a realistic possibility.

We're the ones who lose our shooters and defenders and still think we are a team getting back to a defensive focus with more 3 pt shooting.

We're the team starting a guy we no longer want at centre, instead of the guy we just gave over 20 mil a season too, or the lottery pick C we took last year, because other teams won't give us enough for him.

We're the team that opted not to use draft pick and expiring deals in trades while our core was cheap, only use the space we created to sign a guy with a bum knee to a 60m deal for him to miss the majority of one season, play bad the next, and then use a 1st round pick to get rid of him, and credit the gm for the addition by subtraction.

We're the team that loved when our GM said we will make major changes to how we play - only to love it when he change his mind about it a month later.

We're a team that gave guys incentives in contracts that they won't likely reach and do nothing really but make the # sound larger to placate their egos while having the real cost of having to be counted towards our cap.

We're the team that gave a SG who's not interested in playing defence and can't shoot the 3, more money and better terms than any other team the league could give him, before he even had another offer and called it a sign of loyalty from the player, and assumed anything but a super max for the player constituted a discount.

Rather than rebuild, we put over 100 mil in 5 players all singed for at least the next 3 years, that do not include Norm Powell, and includes a guy that doesn't really fit in the plans anymore in Jonas.

When we were ECF and found ourselves gifted with and extra lotto pick we were able to parlay that into the addition of Jacob Poeltl, we love it and act like the Celtics blew their shot by trading for Kyrie Irving.

Maybe I'm engaging in some grass is greener, thinking, (pardon the pun) but Boston, imo, looked beyond this next season and is betting that LeBron is heading out of Cleveland next year, at which point the road to the finals for them will be wide open, given that there's no reason to think they are all done getting better. I mean they can be in the lead to trade for any superstar or elite guy who may be on the market, and they'll start getting the value vets that were going to Cleveland.

I'm not sure I can crap on Boston for that, when the best that I can hope for us, is try to at least have a few more respectable playoff runs, likely topping out our potential by getting out of the first round, or the big prize of contracts ending in a few years, if DD decides to opt out and give up 27-29 million. If it's the rebuild and playing youth that excites people, we could have done that and not capped our selves out for the next few years. I personally prefer to try and compete, but I feel that in-terms of being competitive we are paying more to move in the other direction. I just can't judge every move every other team makes else with outright cynicism, while only being open to the most optimistic or potential outcomes for ourselves.

This place is realgm. if you really were a gm, do you think you'd be better served rationalising to yourself, why all your moves were awesome and while all your competitors moves were doomed to fail, or would you be better served to have long critical reviews of your moves and possibilities, and assuming the path ahead will be as difficult as possible, rather than assuming other teams can't catch up to you?

[Lukeem]

Would that lineup be ok in the East?
Sure.

Will it get you the #1?
No.

Will it be nearly as effective as the versions WITH Lebron?
No. Therefore, you won't see lineups like that often.

all id be asking is


would that lineup be able to maintain or add to leads for a majority of the season in small stints when lebron rests?

My gut instinct is no, but nobody really knows right now

fair enough

my gut thinks that outside of warriors that line would be more than adequate against anyone in short stints


run that line for 3+ mins per quarter and youve got a pretty fresh lebron

[The Duke]

Poor trade from Boston.
This trade feels like a trade where he was pressured by ownership to do something....

Boston, gets marginally better for regular season this year (maybe next season), and still loses to Cavs in playoffs.
Makes it potentially more likely Lebron stays in Cleveland since you gave them movable assets.
Losses a potential top 5 pick ... which could have had an impact for 7 years.
Locked into being a very good team, instead of a great team

[PhilBlackson]

I just don't get something, if we were in bostons position, we would be creating threads about how many finals were going to make in the next 5 years. It amazes me. If we switched rosters with the celtics and switched coaches as well, you guys would be creaming your pants.

Not even remotely.

Kyrie is yet to PROVE that he is a winning leader of a team, his record without LeBron which includes the time LBJ rested is awful. The Celtics defense also took a huge hit losing Bradley (their best defender) and Crowder (their most versatile defender). Please don't throw out names like Marcus Morris lol no one mentioned crap about him being a great defender his entire career, now all of sudden he's a decent defender that gets hyped as a great one because he joined the Cs. The mention of Smart, Rozier, Haynes etc is fairly meaningless too because then you're eating into Hayward and Tatum's minutes lol that's what made Bradley and Crowder good weapons is they were fairly good offensively but even better defensively. BOS will need to try and find balance so they never really get to be an offensive powerhouse either.

Not to mention the package BOS just traded CLE may have just helped them keep LeBron ....which could mean another 2-3 years of being second fiddle, not to mention Giannis becoming a bigger monster by the year and if PHI can remain healthy (a team that if they were healthy I'd much rather have than BOS) in a few years could be scary.

I'm not saying they're not slightly improved, they should be on paper but "cream your pants" over it not a chance. That team is no more a real "contender" than it was before.