Shams: Cleveland and Boston have agreement on deal to send Kyrie Irving to the Celtics for Isaiah Thomas package to Cavs

[OAKLEY_2]

I am not sure Boston is even that much better than us. I would think we are pretty much on par now.

I would even agree with this statement, and I thought Raptors wouldn't even be in the top 5.

I feel Boston's success depends on how well Tatum and Brown integrate and succeed, just as the raps success will be depending on growth from Powell, Wright and our whomever our backup big either .... Poetl/Siakam.

As things stand Siakam will back up Serge and Poetl, for now, will back up JV. No matter whether we go Serge at the 5 or JV! Poets backs that up.

[Double Helix]

I just don't get something, if we were in bostons position, we would be creating threads about how many finals were going to make in the next 5 years. It amazes me. If we switched rosters with the celtics and switched coaches as well, you guys would be creaming your pants.

The reverse could be said of you. If the Raptors had done this you'd be pointing out everything everyone else has been and asking how special a big 3 of a decling Al Horford, Gordon Hayward and Kyrie Irving really was in a league that features Lebron, Durant and Curry. You'd be asking why we helped our direct competitor and made it harder for us to actually get out of the East. You'd be asking why we blew assets for a peak below dynasty level when it could have been dynasty level and how we ended up without a single player or prospect who projects to be (with defence factored in) a top 15 NBA player.

Kyrie Irving was ranked 12th to I.T.'s 13th in point guard Real Plus Minus! This trade offer is the kind of thing you put out for a top 5 NBA 2-way MVP type. Not a guy with his own injury history who is an awful lot like your I.T. In both offence and horrible defence.

When the Raptors do something you often approach it from the perspective of somebody who loathes the Raptors. When the Raptors competitors do something you often act like the sky is falling and that the other team just became the next Warriors.

This is the Raptors fan board. Obviously many of us are going to find different ways to get excited about the Raptors season or the missteps of our rivals during an era of Golden State dominance.

[Mr Burns]

Boston won this trade in my opinion

1) Thomas has one year left on his deal and is looking for the MAX to be thrown at him. He is 29 years old and is coming off a hip injury that will have him sidelined to start the season. Irving has 2 years remaining on his deal and allows the celtics more flexibility to fit their time frame.

2) Kyrie is a 25 year old all-star point guard that is poised for a breakout in Brad Stevens system. Just look what Brad was able to do with Thomas last year, he will make life much easier for Kyrie.

3) Kyrie Irving is already a better player than Thomas. Irving gives you better percentages across the board, had a lower usage rate throughout the season while playing more minutes than Thomas.

4) Consistency. Irving shows up when it matters in the playoffs.... Thomas on the other hand turns into playoff Lowry when the bright lights come on.

5) Picks. How many picks do they need? the celtics just had back to back top 3 picks and have the Lakers pick this year and a handful of other picks in 2019 they could afford to part ways with the Nets pick. They had the opportunity to get an Superstar point guard for a guy that they didn't even plan on paying and a draft pick.

I think a lot of people are sleeping on Kyrie Irving because they think LeBon "MADE" him who he is. Kyrie will finish top 3 in the MVP race this year and prove a lot of people wrong. He is no longer in the shadow of LeBron and is now playing for one of the best coaches in the NBA running one of the best systems in the league.

[Raps in 4]

As others have said, it's less about whether the Celtics are a good team. They obviously will be. It's more about how much scarier and primed for a dynasty they could have been.

If you take 4 x top 6 draft picks (including a #1 overall pick, a #3 win and a likely top 4 next year) along with the #13 ranked PG in RPM and the #5 ranked SF in RPM and tons of cap space and end up with:

Jason Tatum (lesser Jabari Parker type of one-way talent)

Jaylen Brown (I like Brown more than Tatum due to his defensive upside but he might be more of rich man's Harrison Barnes and whose stats and impact next year are probably going to be close to what Powell provides for us next year. As a 3/4 mix I also won't be surprised if OG Anunoby becomes a similar caliber defender to Brown long-term. Brown would have the edge offensively though)

Al Horford (who's a 31 year old big man)

Gordon Hayward (who I see as having pretty comparable value to Derozan head-to-head. He's rarely got the better of Derozan when we've played Utah and they feel close despite what we see in RPM because of Derozan's defensive weakness. Slight edge to Hayward due to RPM but I think part of his impact edge came from playing with less talented backup wings in Utah overall than Derozan did over that same span)

Kyrie Irving (who is basically the flashier, more popular one-way offensive star PG they already had in I.T.)

Marcus Smart (who I honestly think Delon Wright will match or come close to matching in combo guard and backup PG impact next year)

It's far less terrifying both in the immediate future and long-term than it could have been. Many thought they might have had the assets to build the next great NBA dynasty.

Instead, it reminds me how amazing it is that we have a team that's pretty darn close in construction and short-term impact that was built without anywhere near the same amount of assets in the war chest, or anywhere near the kind of high draft picks or league history to draw talent toward.

Lmfaaaaao I just seen your last paragraph too? Are you kidding me? Are you serious right now? Put down the Pom poms please. Stop being a company man. We're no were near the cerltixcs right now or in the future outlook. Are you serious? There asset pool is still one of the richest in the league, and have two blue chip prospects. We're no where in the same tier as the celtics right now, that's a joke of a statement. Not right now and not in the future, put the Pom Pom downs.

Celtics are a joke right now. They're prospects are not coveted (they could have been, but they blew/traded their picks).

They're in a worse position than they were at the start of the offseason.

[Basketball_Jones]

3) Kyrie Irving is already a better player than Thomas. Irving gives you better percentages across the board, had a lower usage rate throughout the season while playing more minutes than Thomas.

Thomas had a 62% TS. Pretty insane, very few guards shot better then him last season and Irving wasn't one of them. I think Kyrie is the better player overall and to build around though.

[720]

One positive is that the Celtics basically peaked with their assets. That lakers/kings pick which will most likely become the kings pick won't be top three, even if it was number one it's protected by the kings. The Memphis pick is probably not gonna be good either. This is it, their big three is Horford, Irving and Hayward. Meh. Now if Tatum becomes a star that changes things but we'll see how that goes.

[Raps in 4]

2) Kyrie is a 25 year old all-star point guard that is poised for a breakout in Brad Stevens system. Just look what Brad was able to do with Thomas last year, he will make life much easier for Kyrie.

Easier than Lebron made it for him?

3) Kyrie Irving is already a better player than Thomas. Irving gives you better percentages across the board, had a lower usage rate throughout the season while playing more minutes than Thomas.

Irving TS: 58%
IT TS: 63%

Irving ORPM: 4.35
IT ORPM: 5.72

4) Consistency. Irving shows up when it matters in the playoffs.... Thomas on the other hand turns into playoff Lowry when the bright lights come on.

It's easy to "show up" when you're playing next to the GOAT who commands all of the opposing team's attention.

5) Picks. How many picks do they need? the celtics just had back to back top 3 picks and have the Lakers pick this year and a handful of other picks in 2019 they could afford to part ways with the Nets pick. They had the opportunity to get an Superstar point guard for a guy that they didn't even plan on paying and a draft pick.

It's a matter of overpaying. They gave up a top-4 pick for a slightly younger version of a player they already had. That's horrendous asset management.

I think a lot of people are sleeping on Kyrie Irving because they think LeBon "MADE" him who he is. Kyrie will finish top 3 in the MVP race this year and prove a lot of people wrong. He is no longer in the shadow of LeBron and is now playing for one of the best coaches in the NBA running one of the best systems in the league.

He's shown absolutely nothing that would indicate he's about to become an MVP-level player.

[Throwback24]

One positive is that the Celtics basically peaked with their assets. That lakers/kings pick which will most likely become the kings pick won't be top three, even if it was number one it's protected by the kings. The Memphis pick is probably not gonna be good either. This is it, their big three is Horford, Irving and Hayward. Meh. Now if Tatum becomes a star that changes things but we'll see how that goes.

What about Brown? If he lives up to his potential the Celtics have their own DD stopper. Brown is the exact type of player to match up against plodding wings like LBJ+DD.

[-TheDocOfDenial]

4) Consistency. Irving shows up when it matters in the playoffs.... Thomas on the other hand turns into playoff Lowry when the bright lights come on.

It's easy to "show up" when you're playing next to the GOAT who commands all of the opposing team's attention.

Kyrie went 1 vs 1 with gsw best defender and consistently burned them. He made the game winning shot in game 7. I don't understand this narrative that LeBron is responsible for kyries success (and this is why he left, he was tired of it too). With this move, Boston is now the clear #1 team in the East.

[720]

One positive is that the Celtics basically peaked with their assets. That lakers/kings pick which will most likely become the kings pick won't be top three, even if it was number one it's protected by the kings. The Memphis pick is probably not gonna be good either. This is it, their big three is Horford, Irving and Hayward. Meh. Now if Tatum becomes a star that changes things but we'll see how that goes.

What about Brown? If he lives up to his potential the Celtics have their own DD stopper. Brown is the exact type of player to match up against plodding wings like LBJ+DD.

I'm not high on Brown which is why I didn't mention him.

[Throwback24]

One positive is that the Celtics basically peaked with their assets. That lakers/kings pick which will most likely become the kings pick won't be top three, even if it was number one it's protected by the kings. The Memphis pick is probably not gonna be good either. This is it, their big three is Horford, Irving and Hayward. Meh. Now if Tatum becomes a star that changes things but we'll see how that goes.

What about Brown? If he lives up to his potential the Celtics have their own DD stopper. Brown is the exact type of player to match up against plodding wings like LBJ+DD.

I'm not high on Brown which is why I didn't mention him.

He honestly has more 'star' potential than Tatum. If anyone moves the needle for them, it will be him this season.

[ruckus]

If I'm a Boston fan, I'd be disappointed if this was the penultimate haul from the multiple picks and cap space that Ainge started with after the big-3 era. While Irving, Hayward, Horford, Brown and Tatum is nothing to sneeze at, and is a solid foundation, I don't project it to be a championship-level team.

[Dalek]

I think it is easy to slam Boston because they lack experience and grit in losing Crowder and Bradley, but if you look at this trade, it is a great move for the future.

They have three excellent players in Irving, Hayward and Horford that will keep them as divisional contenders

They have a bunch of young guys that are going to be great: Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown Jayson Tatum.

When Golden State and Cleveland are past their primes, Irving will be leading a very strong team that is ready to win in a couple years.

The only guy who loses is Al Horford, who probably sees this team moving in a different direction.

Curious to see how Brad Stevens manages the defense with all these young guys and Irving, who is soft on defense.

Wouldn't say Smart is going to be great by any means- solid player but great yeah right.

I look at Smart as like Kyle Lowry when he first came into the league. If you watch Smart he makes some incredible, game-saving defensive plays. His outside shooting is getting better, and he is one of the toughest guys in the NBA (even if he is a supreme flopper on defense). I hold out some hope that he will be the next Lowry. You can say he has hit his ceiling, but I still see his game needing some further maturing which will happen (still only 23).

[Raps in 4]

4) Consistency. Irving shows up when it matters in the playoffs.... Thomas on the other hand turns into playoff Lowry when the bright lights come on.

It's easy to "show up" when you're playing next to the GOAT who commands all of the opposing team's attention.

Kyrie went 1 vs 1 with gsw best defender and consistently burned them. He made the game winning shot in game 7. I don't understand this narrative that LeBron is responsible for kyries success (and this is why he left, he was tired of it too). With this move, Boston is now the clear #1 team in the East.

TS% in finals: 56% (which is below his season average).

That's not bad shooting, especially against GSW in the finals, but it's hardly "burning" the defender either.

Kyrie is a good player, but he's not some generational offensive talent, and his defence is atrocious. He's a slightly younger and bigger version of IT. You don't give up IT plus your top asset to get him. You trade IT and a top-4 pick to upgrade talent, not stay the same team.

[Mr Burns]

2) Kyrie is a 25 year old all-star point guard that is poised for a breakout in Brad Stevens system. Just look what Brad was able to do with Thomas last year, he will make life much easier for Kyrie.

Easier than Lebron made it for him?

3) Kyrie Irving is already a better player than Thomas. Irving gives you better percentages across the board, had a lower usage rate throughout the season while playing more minutes than Thomas.

Irving TS: 58%
IT TS: 63%

Irving ORPM: 4.35
IT ORPM: 5.72

4) Consistency. Irving shows up when it matters in the playoffs.... Thomas on the other hand turns into playoff Lowry when the bright lights come on.

It's easy to "show up" when you're playing next to the GOAT who commands all of the opposing team's attention.

5) Picks. How many picks do they need? the celtics just had back to back top 3 picks and have the Lakers pick this year and a handful of other picks in 2019 they could afford to part ways with the Nets pick. They had the opportunity to get an Superstar point guard for a guy that they didn't even plan on paying and a draft pick.

It's a matter of overpaying. They gave up a top-4 pick for a slightly younger version of a player they already had. That's horrendous asset management.

I think a lot of people are sleeping on Kyrie Irving because they think LeBon "MADE" him who he is. Kyrie will finish top 3 in the MVP race this year and prove a lot of people wrong. He is no longer in the shadow of LeBron and is now playing for one of the best coaches in the NBA running one of the best systems in the league.

He's shown absolutely nothing that would indicate he's about to become an MVP-level player.

Irving had the better FG%, 3p% and had the same FT% as Thomas but you choose a stat that clearly favours someone who shoots more threes (Thomas makes 3.2 threes while shooting 8 threes a game)

How is that an over pay if they weren't even going to sign Thomas back? They weren't going to pay the guy the Max contract, they got younger and took on a cheaper deal for the time being. They gave up a pick that likely was going to be glued to the bench since they are in win now mode. This was a great move on their part.

Irving had a higer PER, WS, OBPM, DBPM, VORP, WS/48 basically any advance stat favoured Irving in the playoffs. Like i said, he will prove a lot of people wrong. Including your delusional self.

[Raps in 4]

2) Kyrie is a 25 year old all-star point guard that is poised for a breakout in Brad Stevens system. Just look what Brad was able to do with Thomas last year, he will make life much easier for Kyrie.

Easier than Lebron made it for him?

3) Kyrie Irving is already a better player than Thomas. Irving gives you better percentages across the board, had a lower usage rate throughout the season while playing more minutes than Thomas.

Irving TS: 58%
IT TS: 63%

Irving ORPM: 4.35
IT ORPM: 5.72

4) Consistency. Irving shows up when it matters in the playoffs.... Thomas on the other hand turns into playoff Lowry when the bright lights come on.

It's easy to "show up" when you're playing next to the GOAT who commands all of the opposing team's attention.

5) Picks. How many picks do they need? the celtics just had back to back top 3 picks and have the Lakers pick this year and a handful of other picks in 2019 they could afford to part ways with the Nets pick. They had the opportunity to get an Superstar point guard for a guy that they didn't even plan on paying and a draft pick.

It's a matter of overpaying. They gave up a top-4 pick for a slightly younger version of a player they already had. That's horrendous asset management.

I think a lot of people are sleeping on Kyrie Irving because they think LeBon "MADE" him who he is. Kyrie will finish top 3 in the MVP race this year and prove a lot of people wrong. He is no longer in the shadow of LeBron and is now playing for one of the best coaches in the NBA running one of the best systems in the league.

He's shown absolutely nothing that would indicate he's about to become an MVP-level player.

Irving had the better FG%, 3p% and had the same FT% as Thomas but you choose a stat that clearly favours someone who shoots more threes (Thomas makes 3.2 threes while shooting 8 threes a game)

How is that an over pay if they weren't even going to sign Thomas back? They weren't going to pay the guy the Max contract, they got younger and took on a cheaper deal for the time being. They gave up a pick that likely was going to be glued to the bench since they are in win now mode. This was a great move on their part.

Irving had a higer PER, WS, OBPM, DBPM, VORP, WS/48 basically any advance stat favoured Irving in the playoffs. Like i said, he will prove a lot of people wrong. Including your delusional self.

TS% favours more efficient players. IT is more efficient than Irving.

It's an overpay because their production last year was almost identical. You don't trade a top-4 pick for a younger version of a player you already have.

Irving did have better playoff stats, but Irving also played alongside the GOAT. Any remotely talented player will have success in that position. IT's playoff stats will skyrocket this year too.

[JN]

This is a very strong deal for the Cavs given the leverage situation. It's also a package that gives them the flexibility to move forward in various directions

If they get a sense from Lebron that this year is it, then IT+Jae is not far off Kyrie. And you rebuild with a top 5 pick, perhaps top 3.

And with the great Brooklyn pick, they can try to talk Lebron into staying and trade for another big piece to make a run this year. They certainly have the contract filler to pick up a prospective free agent. They will then have the choice of resigning that new

[Mr Burns]

Easier than Lebron made it for him?



Irving TS: 58%
IT TS: 63%

Irving ORPM: 4.35
IT ORPM: 5.72



It's easy to "show up" when you're playing next to the GOAT who commands all of the opposing team's attention.



It's a matter of overpaying. They gave up a top-4 pick for a slightly younger version of a player they already had. That's horrendous asset management.



He's shown absolutely nothing that would indicate he's about to become an MVP-level player.

Irving had the better FG%, 3p% and had the same FT% as Thomas but you choose a stat that clearly favours someone who shoots more threes (Thomas makes 3.2 threes while shooting 8 threes a game)

How is that an over pay if they weren't even going to sign Thomas back? They weren't going to pay the guy the Max contract, they got younger and took on a cheaper deal for the time being. They gave up a pick that likely was going to be glued to the bench since they are in win now mode. This was a great move on their part.

Irving had a higer PER, WS, OBPM, DBPM, VORP, WS/48 basically any advance stat favoured Irving in the playoffs. Like i said, he will prove a lot of people wrong. Including your delusional self.

TS% favours more efficient players. IT is more efficient than Irving.

It's an overpay because their production last year was almost identical. You don't trade a top-4 pick for a younger version of a player you already have.

Irving did have better playoff stats, but Irving also played alongside the GOAT. Any remotely talented player will have success in that position. IT's playoff stats will skyrocket this year too.

Yes you do, especially when that younger player is putting up almost identical stats as the #2 option on a championship level team with less usage. Thomas literally played in a system that was designed for him to score buckets. Brad Stevens did an amazing job creating plays that got Thomas good looks. Thomas had a 34% usage rate in 32 minutes and was the number 1 option. You think his production and usage stays the same playing along side LeBron and Love? His numbers will easily dip across the board.

Once again, Kyrie will now have the chance to shut people up. Save my post, he will be top 3 MVP this year.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Only 4 players remain from the 2016-17 Celtics Roster, crazy.

[Fairview4Life]

One positive is that the Celtics basically peaked with their assets. That lakers/kings pick which will most likely become the kings pick won't be top three, even if it was number one it's protected by the kings. The Memphis pick is probably not gonna be good either. This is it, their big three is Horford, Irving and Hayward. Meh. Now if Tatum becomes a star that changes things but we'll see how that goes.

What about Brown? If he lives up to his potential the Celtics have their own DD stopper. Brown is the exact type of player to match up against plodding wings like LBJ+DD.

Lebron James, one of the greatest athletes in human history, is a plodding wing?