ATL - New Lottery Rules Move to Owner Vote - pg59

[MickeyDavis]

Other thread maxed out. Still 8 weeks until we can talk about meaningful games.

[freewhitemoon]

Boston used most of their precious assets now and it's arguable whether they even got better. I think their offseason was pretty **** overall considering they entered it with the no.1 overall pick. Even getting Hayward in FA I dont think was that big. Hayward's a fine player but if you're paying him 32m/yr and hoping to win a championship.... GL

They've got no rebounding and no one to reasonably match up with Lebron

[paulpressey25]

Continuing from the other thread, I think Boston feels pretty comfortable they can re-sign Kyrie. That seemed evident from a couple reports I read. Makes overpaying a bit easier to stomach.

[FlagsFlyForever]

"Special talent/guy! Nothing but respect and what a ride it was our 3 years together." -LeBron

LeBron being a class act as always.

[MickeyDavis]

I still don't know what to make of this trade. It APPEARS as if Cleveland got the better of it but who the hell knows. I never really expected the Cavs to trade him to a team in the East. It certainly makes opening night extra interesting.

ETA, I have a feeling the Cavs get another #1 overall out of the Nets pick, to ease their transition away from LeBron for a second time.

[FrieAaron]

I'm a Hayward fan, but man that Kyrie trade is awful for Boston. Am I the only one who would question how much better they'd be even swapping Kyrie for IT straight up? I mean IT did almost everything better (or equal) last season and wasn't playing next to Lebron.

[paulpressey25]

Understand that many outside our RealGM community don't want to talk about this angle, but this trade demonstrated how great Ainge has been at accumulating assets versus the Bucks.

You may not like what Boston did this summer. You may think Ainge seriously overpaid. But give him credit for what he's done.

Just trying to imagine what our posture this summer would have been if we had on our side of the ledger the Lakers pick, the Clippers 2017 first and Norman Powell. Not a blockbuster set of assets, but clearly something substantial to work with.

[humanrefutation]

I think Boston is going to be a title contender heading into the next couple seasons, if Stevens can get some defensive buy-in out of Hayward and Kyrie. I like Tatum quite a bit as well, while Marcus Morris was a sneaky-decent add by them. You're also getting another year of development out of Jaylen Brown, who has talent, though he's going to be challenged for play time by all of the other pieces Boston has added.

[Nowak008]

As much as this was a home run for the Cavs, I do like it for the Celtics quite a bit.

Angie is the bizzaro Hammond/LED in this sense - if you were to look at our transactions individually they might not look so bad Snell for 4/44 for example...but then when you look at the final roster our cap situation and roster... it is a mess.

With Angie you might look at passing on Fultz, trading Bradley for a Morris twin, or going all in on Kyrie is questionable...but then you look at their final roster.... it is amazing.

Been saying this for a while... we need someone with strategic long term thinking. Instead we have kids in our draft war room.

[engelmartin]

Responding to Skones from the other thread:

I think Kyrie probably looked a lot better because he was playing next to Lebron, and Isaiah probably will too. It's true that he's going to get paid, but Thomas is a leader and was the heart of that Boston team. It's going to be difficult to just insert Kyrie in there and hope not only that he's a team player but also that he makes people around him better. On paper he's a better player, but chemistry is going to be completely different.

Cleveland, on the other hand, builds a supporting cast around Lebron and adds a top-5 pick next year. I don't blame Ainge for making the deal, it just seems like it's going to make Cleveland a lot better. Boston is building a team to compete with Golden State, almost in spite of the fact that they've still gotta beat Cleveland first.

I do agree about him missing the boat on George and Butler though, both who were acquired for a lot less than Kyrie.

[paulpressey25]

Instead we have kids in our draft war room.

Of course Koby Altman is what, 36? And Hammond was 62. And David Stearns is 31?

The age experience is a critical element but you also need someone with significant brain horsepower to play 3-D chess.

Don't feel like Horst (nor Hammond) ever had this. So yeah, we're **** even before you get the issue of LED playing GM.

[MiltownHawkeye]

You have to think they could have gotten George or Butler for less than what they gave up for Kyrie, while keeping IT. Baffling trade.

I hate this Celtics offseason. I really liked their identity with guys like Bradley and Crowder, now it's kind of a weird mix of guys with some I just flatout don't like (Smart, Brown). I don't think they got any better this season, and considering they went in with the #1 pick and a BKN 2018 pick, that's not good.

This will all look awful if Fultz turns out to be a superstar PG.

[smauss]

In talking about GM comparison, I would say that what Ainge does, that we seem to lack, is to understand the window we have with our core and getting players to fit into that window. Sometimes I think, in the same way we focus on individual contracts (as was mentioned earlier) we also tend to analyze individual player skill sets and not necessarily do they truly fit our window and style of play with our core.

[M-C-G]

I'm a Hayward fan, but man that Kyrie trade is awful for Boston. Am I the only one who would question how much better they'd be even swapping Kyrie for IT straight up? I mean IT did almost everything better (or equal) last season and wasn't playing next to Lebron.

Are you assuming that a 28 year old IT maintains his OBPM 2.5 points higher than his career? I'm skeptical IT was putting up another season like that if he stayed in Boston. His TS% the year before was .562, last season it was .625.

If IT regresses, I think Boston is better, by how much I am not sure. As bad as Kyrie has been on defense, IT DBPM the last three years is -3.9, -2.0, -3.3 and career -2.7. Kyrie -1.4, -1.4, -2.3 career -1.5

[MickeyDavis]

Playing with LeBron absolutely makes a difference. It will be very interesting to see IT with LeBron and Kyrie without.

[HurricaneKid]

While the Celtics roster might be pretty good with a fair amount of young talent, I cannot for the life of me understand how you see any of this as a big win for Boston. Cle couldn't get Bledsoe and JJackson from Pho but they got THAT from Boston? Who was Boston competing against? I feel like they THREW IN Zizic AND Jae. Crowder is still under contract for FOUR seasons at 28.5M. That is one of the best contracts in the league. Last week Celtics fans were saying Zizic would have been a top 10 pick and with Blatt giving him massive kudos looks like a really good piece moving forward. I don't MIND trading Fultz for #3 and a top level future pick but man, if Fultz develops like many people suggest that one could certainly come back to bite them. The NJ pick could EASILY (maybe even LIKELY) become Porter/Bagley and those are generational talents. Trading Bradley for the lesser Morris... I just feel like Danny acquired incredible assets and I don't like where he is spending them. Kyrie may very well blossom in a system that made IT2 an All-NBA player. But this has been a horrible offseason for Boston.

[M-C-G]

Instead we have kids in our draft war room.

Of course Koby Altman is what, 36? And Hammond was 62. And David Stearns is 31?

The age experience is a critical element but you also need someone with significant brain horsepower to play 3-D chess.

Don't feel like Horst (nor Hammond) ever had this. So yeah, we're **** even before you get the issue of LED playing GM.

He is literally talking about kids I believe.

[MickeyDavis]

When The Boston Globe’s Gary Washburn asked Ainge to summarize the Celtics’ summer, his answer was enough to make you wonder if we won’t be analyzing another big-time Boston move in the not-so-distant future.

“Why don’t we talk about (how he evaluates the summer) when the summer’s over Gary?” Ainge said with a chuckle. “Let’s wait and see what else happens. …Gary, we never know.”

[emunney]

Only 3 more years for Jae's contract, but it doesn't do much to diminish that it's one of the league's best contracts.

[mattg]

I'm a Hayward fan, but man that Kyrie trade is awful for Boston. Am I the only one who would question how much better they'd be even swapping Kyrie for IT straight up? I mean IT did almost everything better (or equal) last season and wasn't playing next to Lebron.

Ever considered that Thomas efficiency is going to dive when he doesn't have the same amount of possessions to accrue massive FT attempts since he'll be sharing the ball a lot more? Have you considered that Thomas might have an unhealed hip injury that no one knows about til next month? Have you considered that maybe Brad Stevens, one of the best X and O coaches in the league will be able to better use Kyrie than bumbling Tyronn Lue? (especially after you just saw what Stevens did for IT after he bounced around Sac/Phoenix with the reputation as a PPGZ no wins player) This isn't even mentioning the defense which is being downplayed super hard. Kyrie may be bad on that end, but he can still compete and you can put him on guys. There's literally nothing you can do about Thomas on defense. The gap between Kyrie and IT on defense is substantially larger than the gap in their offense.

Then there's the whole, seeking a max contract for IT while being 5'9 and approaching 30. Every other player sub 6ft in league history has already been out of their prime by that age.

Otherwise people need to realize that you can't just hoard assets. Ask Portland or Chicago of the late 2000s about that. You can sit on your hands and end up with nothing to show for it like they did, or you can consolidate for a 25 year old all star. Take your pick.
Teams were already making him bid against himself when he went after Butler or George, demanding 2 players and both picks. Obviously you don't even consider that for the PG13 rental, and hard to justify it for Butler when you know you've got Hayward coming as FA and have 2 top 3 picks on the wing who need to develop. The IT situation needed to be resolved because you don't roll with him going forward given the rest of the roster in terms of age and contract status.