***Around The League Off-Season Edition***

[Neeva]

Ainge lol I don't know why he felt the need to overpay. We Got Jimmy giving up way less.

Celtics now get beat by 20 instead of 40 by the cavs!!! And I don't see Kyrie sticking around in two years with Boston.

[Neeva]

Watch the cavs end up with michael porter jr now.

[Grits n Gravy]

Man this off season has been nucking futs. I think the Celtics over paid big time but obviously Ainge wanted no part of IT's hip and future contract. After IT does all the sales pitch and recruiting to get Hayward they turn around and trade him

I personally would have kept Fultz and kept Bradley and traded Isiah for the best offer I could get. This seems like a lateral move for the Celtics in the short term and a big downgrade in the long term. If Zizic turns into another Euro steal and the Nets finish in the bottom 5 which I fully expect them to do then this is even worse for the Celtics. Certainly interested to see what Irving can do from out of Lebron's shadow and if he can become a more well rounded, multi dimensional player.

[southern wolf]

I think Irving and Thomas are about on par, but that Brooklyn pick is huge. That could very likely be a #1 overall and Crowder is a nice addition. The Cavs did really well considering Irving wanted out.

[Wiltside]

Hey guys,
Big offseason for the TWolves, and we've reviewed it. 4 biggest questions for you, interested in your responses:

1. Can Wiggins become an all around player?
2. Will the bench be deep enough?
3. How much will Towns improve defensively?
4. Is there enough shooting?



Article is here if you're interested: https://thefourpointplay.blog/2017/08/23/nba-timberwolves-season-preview/

[Grits n Gravy]

I think Irving and Thomas are about on par, but that Brooklyn pick is huge. That could very likely be a #1 overall and Crowder is a nice addition. The Cavs did really well considering Irving wanted out.

Exacty and certainly not saying they should but they could easily turn around and trade that pick now or at the deadline for an established all star player to try and convince Lebron to stay. You have a healthy(?) IT, Lebron, Love and all star X(?) with good role players in TT, Crowder, JR Smith, Dwayne Wade(?) and maybe Zizic(?) and you have a real chance at dethroning Golden State. If Brooklyn has an awful record at the all star break you can beat that pick is gonna be highly valued and in demand.

[Grits n Gravy]

Hey guys,
Big offseason for the TWolves, and we've reviewed it. 4 biggest questions for you, interested in your responses:

1. Can Wiggins become an all around player?
2. Will the bench be deep enough?
3. How much will Towns improve defensively?
4. Is there enough shooting?

Article is here if you're interested: https://thefourpointplay.blog/2017/08/23/nba-timberwolves-season-preview/

I actually found and read your article a few hours ago independent of you while looking for any updates on Justin Patton, nice job.

[Oriole8159]

Some undermentioned things from Bos' standpoint...

*Getting Semi Ojeleye in the draft will ease the loss of Crowder. Guy looks like a carbon copy, and they got him locked up cheap for 4 years.
*Bos was already at the max 15 players and needed to make a decision soon on Jabari Bird after he had a very good SL, so the trade opens up a roster spot for them to sign him.
*Bos still has the Lakers first next year too, so can "afford" to move the BKN pick.

Add those into the fact that Thomas was probably gone after next year anyway, and I think it makes more sense. When you factor that extra context in, I think it looks much better for Boston.

[Grits n Gravy]

Some undermentioned things from Bos' standpoint...

*Getting Semi Ojeleye in the draft will ease the loss of Crowder. Guy looks like a carbon copy, and they got him locked up cheap for 4 years.
*Bos was already at the max 15 players and needed to make a decision soon on Jabari Bird after he had a very good SL, so the trade opens up a roster spot for them to sign him.
*Bos still has the Lakers first next year too, so can "afford" to move the BKN pick.

Add those into the fact that Thomas was probably gone after next year anyway, and I think it makes more sense. When you factor that extra context in, I think it looks much better for Boston.

Not saying you're wrong but:

1) A 37th overall pick is far from a guarantee of being anything of significance in the NBA.
2) Making any move to accomodate a 57th overall pick shouldn't be of too much concern, even then there are other ways to open a roster spot.
3) The LAL pick is far from guaranteed as I believe it has to fall between 2 and 5 for it to be sent to Boston, otherwise they get the Sacramento 2019 pick. Lakers have got a lot better and should be somewhat competitive with KCP, Lopez, Ball(depending on his impact as a rook) and the growth of Ingram and other youngins.

[jmoy]

Some undermentioned things from Bos' standpoint...

*Getting Semi Ojeleye in the draft will ease the loss of Crowder. Guy looks like a carbon copy, and they got him locked up cheap for 4 years.
*Bos was already at the max 15 players and needed to make a decision soon on Jabari Bird after he had a very good SL, so the trade opens up a roster spot for them to sign him.
*Bos still has the Lakers first next year too, so can "afford" to move the BKN pick.

Add those into the fact that Thomas was probably gone after next year anyway, and I think it makes more sense. When you factor that extra context in, I think it looks much better for Boston.

I agree in that it is not as bad of a deal for Boston as some people feel. Irving is similair to Thomas but when considering his size, hip injury(that is what killed Jonny Fynns career) and the fact that he will want a max contract at age 29 (which is a bad age for PG's), I feel Irving is a far better alternative for Boston going forward. IMO, this deal makes Boston much better this year and you can only collect assets for so long before you have to cash some in.

Cleveland still did get a great deal. If Thomas is healthy and adding in Crowder and possibly Zizic if he developes, they are as good or better than last year. Getting the draft pick was HUGE as well so they can still build for the future if James leaves. Now, if they add Wade after his buyout, they may be able to beat GS this year.

[Oriole8159]

Some undermentioned things from Bos' standpoint...

*Getting Semi Ojeleye in the draft will ease the loss of Crowder. Guy looks like a carbon copy, and they got him locked up cheap for 4 years.
*Bos was already at the max 15 players and needed to make a decision soon on Jabari Bird after he had a very good SL, so the trade opens up a roster spot for them to sign him.
*Bos still has the Lakers first next year too, so can "afford" to move the BKN pick.

Add those into the fact that Thomas was probably gone after next year anyway, and I think it makes more sense. When you factor that extra context in, I think it looks much better for Boston.

Not saying you're wrong but:

1) A 37th overall pick is far from a guarantee of being anything of significance in the NBA.
2) Making any move to accomodate a 57th overall pick shouldn't be of too much concern, even then there are other ways to open a roster spot.
3) The LAL pick is far from guaranteed as I believe it has to fall between 2 and 5 for it to be sent to Boston, otherwise they get the Sacramento 2019 pick. Lakers have got a lot better and should be somewhat competitive with KCP, Lopez, Ball(depending on his impact as a rook) and the growth of Ingram and other youngins.

true, but Ojeleye does fit the profile of the type of role players that have recently been coming into the league and being successful quickly. Already has an NBA body, smart, does the intangibles, and is good (not great) at many different things. It's a risk of course, but his presence at least softens.

Bird may have been the 57th overall pick, but I think they think he's better than that. Sure they could have made different, smaller moves to avoid losing him, but this allows them to accomplish that while still bringing in a star player. Again, softens the blow.

And you're right on the protections for the Lakers pick, so worse case scenario they still have the Sac 2019 pick. I know it's not the same and obviously it would have been better to send this pick than the BKN pick, but all I'm saying is the presence of this add'l pick helps soften the blow. But it did allow them to keep both Tatum and Brown, which is big.

You have to give up something to get something though, especially for a player like Irving that isn't on an expiring contract like Paul George was.
All I'm saying though is that Bos was uniquely positioned to absorb the losses of these specific assets. In a vacuum its still alot and it helps Cle both in the short term and the long term, but Bos specifically can afford it and still have the necessary ammo to stay competitive both in the short and long term.

That's all I'm trying to say. I think its a win/win for both teams.

[Swish4]

I thought Boston won this trade, but Cleveland wasn't ripped off by any means.

[KGdaBom]

First reaction for me is that Celtics just got better than the Cavs. I absolutely love Jaylen Brown, I think he's an all star talent and Tatum adds so much firepower to their bench. Irving >>>IT imo especially with IT wanting a max when his deal is up next year.

Irving/Hayward/Brown/Morris/Horford
with Smart, Rozier, and Tatum coming of the bench?

Feel like they match up very well against IT/LeBron/Love trio now.

Irving is younger but right now no question Thomas is better. Cleveland might have a shot at the title.
I wasn't aware of the injury. So if healthy Thomas is better no question.

[Merc_Porto]

No way Boston won this trade in any kind of scenario for me... No way

[kan_t]

Both have 2 years team control. Timberwolves got JB who is better for less than what the Celtics gave up for Irving.

[Oriole8159]

No way Boston won this trade in any kind of scenario for me... No way

I know I'm not going to convince you otherwise, and that's fine.
But IT is a weird commodity right now. With him being on the last year of his deal and with Bos not wanting to commit to him long term, it puts them in a weird predicament.

Since they envision themselves as title contenders now, they can't trade him mid season for lesser player(s)/picks and throw away this season. A package like IND got for Paul George doesn't do them any good in the short term, or the long term, so trying to trade him for pennies on the dollar just to say they didn't lose him for nothing, isn't attractive.

If they play out the year and let IT walk, then a standalone package of Crowder/Zizic/BKN's pick isn't enough to get them a superstar player to replace IT either. By doing the deal now, they get Irving cost controlled for an additional year, and get two years in total to try and convince him to re-sign.

I know I'm not going to convince you, but you have to look at it from a business standpoint for it to make any sense of why Bos would do this.

[walk with me]

Why do people feel Boston was fleeced?

1. Kyrie for It breaks even. Even if you feel Kyrie is better than IT or IT is better than Kyrie. It solves problems for both teams. Kyrie wanted out so he got out. IT already made it very clear that he wants a max and I doubt Boston wanted to give it to him with a bad hip. Problem solved both ways

2. Cavs getting crowder. It solves a huge problem for the cavs, depth and defense. They get a guy who can help those issues immediately. For the Celtics they had a log jam at the 2 spot anyways with jalen brown, Marcus smart and Tatum. Now that crowder is out they have a pecking order and have made time for Tatum to mix it up immediately.

3. Brooklyn pick for nothing. People are looking at this pick as if it's porter jr or bagley but realistically I don't think it'll be either of these guys. Knicks, magic, Pacers, suns, hawks and bulls all stand a chance to finish lower than the nets. So the trade may be valuable but not as valuable as everyone thinks. Boston was also desperate for star power. Kyrie delivers that instantly for what could end up being (at best) a 1 pick or (at worst) a 6/7 pick.


All in all both teams broke even.

[Alwaysrightguy]

Terrible trade for Boston! They either knew they did not want to back the Brinks trucks to his door or his injury scared them to do this. Cavs had ZERO leverage and another month from now would have settled for WAY less. Ainge panicked because he got ripped mercifully by his fan base for not dealing his prized picks earlier before the draft. That Brooklyn pick will be top 3 no doubt. He already had a top 3 seed sewn up this year and had a dynasty for years with all those picks...damn shame! Kyrie ain't going to change his seeding and I doubt the king lets that punk one up him this year.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

[Oriole8159]

Terrible trade for Boston! They either knew they did not want to back the Brinks trucks to his door or his injury scared them to do this. Cavs had ZERO leverage and another month from now would have settled for WAY less. Ainge panicked because he got ripped mercifully by his fan base for not dealing his prized picks earlier before the draft. That Brooklyn pick will be top 3 no doubt. He already had a top 3 seed sewn up this year and had a dynasty for years with all those picks...damn shame! Kyrie ain't going to change his seeding and I doubt the king lets that punk one up him this year.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

I think most people are presuming that is exactly the case; that they didn't want to invest long term in IT.
So if that is the case and you look at IT within that context, does it make any more sense to you?

[Tukkerwolf]

Terrible trade for Boston! They either knew they did not want to back the Brinks trucks to his door or his injury scared them to do this. Cavs had ZERO leverage and another month from now would have settled for WAY less. Ainge panicked because he got ripped mercifully by his fan base for not dealing his prized picks earlier before the draft. That Brooklyn pick will be top 3 no doubt. He already had a top 3 seed sewn up this year and had a dynasty for years with all those picks...damn shame! Kyrie ain't going to change his seeding and I doubt the king lets that punk one up him this year.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

I think most people are presuming that is exactly the case; that they didn't want to invest long term in IT.
So if that is the case and you look at IT within that context, does it make any more sense to you?

I think if the Cs had send their own pick out instead of BKNs value would be more fair...