ATL - New Lottery Rules Move to Owner Vote - pg59

[ReasonablySober]

The Celtics weren't an ECF lock with IT/Crowder/Bradley either, so again, I'm not seeing what the downside is here. No move they could have made this offseason was going to get them a championship in the next 1-2 years. Surprised more people aren't commending Ainge for playing the long game here, while also getting two All-Star caliber players in their mid-20s.

The long game would have been to keep the Brooklyn pick.

[worthlessBucks]

The Celtics weren't an ECF lock with IT/Crowder/Bradley either, so again, I'm not seeing what the downside is here. No move they could have made this offseason was going to get them a championship in the next 1-2 years. Surprised more people aren't commending Ainge for playing the long game here, while also getting two All-Star caliber players in their mid-20s.

The moves definitely show that Ainge internally felt that that the team overachieved and lacked significant AS talent.

[coolhandluke121]

I will say this - regardless of which team won the trade, the NBA and its casual fans won big. This is great for competition and story-lines in the Eastern Conference, where the playoffs were a joke last year.

[M-C-G]

The Celtics weren't an ECF lock with IT/Crowder/Bradley either, so again, I'm not seeing what the downside is here. No move they could have made this offseason was going to get them a championship in the next 1-2 years. Surprised more people aren't commending Ainge for playing the long game here, while also getting two All-Star caliber players in their mid-20s.

The long game would have been to keep the Brooklyn pick.

They chose the middle game, time will tell if it was the right one.

[DingleJerry]

The Celtics weren't an ECF lock with IT/Crowder/Bradley either, so again, I'm not seeing what the downside is here. No move they could have made this offseason was going to get them a championship in the next 1-2 years. Surprised more people aren't commending Ainge for playing the long game here, while also getting two All-Star caliber players in their mid-20s.

The moves definitely show that Ainge internally felt that that the team overachieved and lacked significant AS talent.

And that he'd rather have money invested in Kyrie/Hayward than Bradley/IT. Can't fault that logic.

[Ron Swanson]

The Celtics weren't an ECF lock with IT/Crowder/Bradley either, so again, I'm not seeing what the downside is here. No move they could have made this offseason was going to get them a championship in the next 1-2 years. Surprised more people aren't commending Ainge for playing the long game here, while also getting two All-Star caliber players in their mid-20s.

The long game would have been to keep the Brooklyn pick.

Maybe. Maybe that pick ends up 6th or 7th overall next year and that wouldn't have been enough to get Kyrie or another player of that caliber in a trade next offseason, and it doesn't end up the better long term play.

[DingleJerry]

I will say this - regardless of which team won the trade, the NBA and its casual fans won big. This is great for competition and story-lines in the Eastern Conference, where the playoffs were a joke last year.

Good point. I was just talking to someone else how surprising this offseason was not only for the drama, but that so many teams went so hard at improving. I thought the GSW juggernaut would have a lot of teams saying what's the point and start planning for years down the line. Instead MN, OKC, HOU, and Bos all aggressively tried to compete with them. Add that to SAS and Cle/LBJ and overall I think the NBA had a very good offseason to improve competitiveness in spite of what GSW has going on.

[Profound23]

Supposedly the Cavs were asking for Tatum instead of the Nets pick.

I am a gambling man and because of that I probably trade Tatum and keep the pick. Then again, I am not a Tatum fan at all.

[skones]

Don't know why people think IT is gonna suddenly get worse, provided he's healthy. He's going from playing next to no one to playing next to LeBron and Love.

"Provided he's healthy" with the hip and overall wear and tear given his lack of size. I'd say that's a pretty big factor. His efficiency spike is reason for pause as well.

Is there a reason to believe his efficiency will go down now that he's playing next to LeBron and an elite floor spacer in Love?

Is there a reason to believe his efficiency last season is the norm he's working off of after a 6% increase from his previous season?

[chonestown]

I will say this - regardless of which team won the trade, the NBA and its casual fans won big. This is great for competition and story-lines in the Eastern Conference, where the playoffs were a joke last year.

Content generation has been robust, gotta admit that.

[El Duderino]

As for the trade, I understand it for both sides but I don't understand why Boston had to include Crowder. And I think the Nets are going to be terrible again, so that pick is very valuable. BK has no incentive to tank but that doesn't matter because they're almost as awful as a peak Sixers Process roster.a

ETA: I.T. is basically the offensive player Kyrie fans seem to think Kyrie is, but Kyrie is probably still improving and has a better contract situation. Ainge must have really thought Butler's wheels were about to fall off though because he's a much better player than either of them right now and they could have had him for less.

I think the contract part of the equation was huge in why Ainge made this trade.

Kyrie not only has two years left on his deal while Thomas is a free agent after this season, i don't think Ainge wanted to pay Thomas on an extension that IT would be expecting, for health and age reasons. On the flip side, Ainge would gladly extend Kyrie so long as things go well and Kyrie is open to an extension.

Basically, Ainge is hoping Kyrie is a long term Celtics piece and he didn't feel that way about Thomas, so he sold off Thomas before being put in a position of losing him for nothing after this year.

[HurricaneKid]

Its pretty clear Ainge wanted an out for dealing with IT next offseason. He didn't want to overpay him but Celtics fans LOVE IT2s blue collar spirit. This certainly gives him an out. But contract wise, its not that different. IT makes 6M this year. Kyrie makes 38M over the next two years. IT isn't even ELIGIBLE to make 32M next year and Kyrie will be making more than him in Y3+. Now obviously Kyrie is several years younger (3). I think the injury is worse than people suspect. I had his exact injury and they only way to improve it is to shave down the bone where it impinges the labrum and clean up the labrum. And for NBA purposes its a 9 mo recovery because of the bone removal. If he is going to demand a long term deal he will HAVE to have the surgery at some point during that deal or will miss massive amounts of the season all the time and risk permanent loss of the labrum.

If you look at Kyrie on, LeBron off stats his personal lines are great but team %s drop off a cliff and team effectiveness drops to mid lotto quality. Its almost BKnight on steroids. I already think of Stevens as a god. If he can make Kyrie an effective playmaker I will be even more impressed.

[LUKE23]

Think the Cavs won the trade long-term, but I see why Boston did it, they see Kyrie as a playoff upgrade from IT. For them to actually be better though, Brown will have to develop into Crowder or better, and not sure that is happening yet.

Really think Boston still needs a defensive 5 to be a legit threat. Offensively, they look nice, but I could see them being really poor on D with Irving starting, losing Crowder and starting Brown, and having minimal rim protection with Morris/Horford.

For the Cavs, I think they lose LeBron next summer. Probably will have to max IT or flip him at the deadline. But the BKN pick gives them a great "start over" piece and Crowder's contract is a really nice trade chip.

[M-C-G]

Thought this was pretty interesting

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[Profound23]

For those who are certain the Cavs won longterm. What if the pick ends up 9th or 10th?

[emunney]

If you look at Kyrie on, LeBron off stats his personal lines are great but team %s drop off a cliff and team effectiveness drops to mid lotto quality. Its almost BKnight on steroids. I already think of Stevens as a god. If he can make Kyrie an effective playmaker I will be even more impressed.

So LeBron is good?

[Chuck Diesel]

Celtics, Cavaliers, Warriors. It doesn't matter. They're all just spokes on the wheel we're going to break.

[emunney]

Lebron off, Kyrie on:
O/100: 106.7
D/100: 114.7

LeBron off, Kyrie off:
O/100: 106.5
D/100: 118.4

So with LeBron off, Kyrie has a net on/off of +3.9.

Cavs without LeBron overall:
O/100: 106.6
D/100: 116.6

To me, what this points to more than anything is that this Cavs team was built for LeBron.

Lebron on, Kyrie on:
O/100: 119.6
D/100: 108.7

LeBron on, Kyrie off:
O/100: 111.8
D/100: 106.5

Kyrie net on/off with LeBron on = +5.6

[Prez]

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[humanrefutation]

Celtics, Cavaliers, Warriors. It doesn't matter. They're all just spokes on the wheel we're going to break.

And we've got the guy to break that wheel.