Orlando offseason in review on the trade board

[bondom34]

Do not feed the troll

Just call us haterz and be done with it. We graded the same way for every team, again, just as last year. If you think we hate you then we hate everyone. I'm not putting up with your trolling us either way because we did this last year and yet here we are 12 months later.

i didnt call you a hater. I said Orlando players typically get a lot of hate on the trade board. I did use you as an example of someone that "hated" on Dipo, until he was on your team. Yes, you said you got more information and changed your mind. But he had yet to play a single game for OKC before you changed your mind. So all that information was out there when you poo-poo'd him.

And i called myself out for being wrong with IBaka, who on paper should have meshed well with Vuc, not doing well. Though I dont think anyone thought it would be off the court and locker room issues with him more than his play. And that I thought Gordon could make that next step as a passable but not great SF. This is what we have with a GM who drafted players for athleticism instead of skills and shooting. 3+ years later, our PG and PF still are not good shooters.

going into last season, i did think they were going to make a jump. I didnt think Ibaka was going to be a quiet cancer like it looks like he became from reports after he was traded. And i did think that Gordon could make the move to SF. I guess i just didnt realize how bad he is on offense. I figured that if MKG has been able to make a go of it at SF, Gordon could too. Shows how much i was wrong on that.

But, I am allowed my opinion. And the people that wrote up the reviews, I have seen been, in my opinion, unduly harsh on Orlando for years. Slava and Bondom in particular.

maybe im wrong, i thought it was Bondom that cr#$ped on Dipo for awhile and said no way is he getting Ibaka and then promptly changed his tune once he was on OKC's team. there is another OKC mod, so maybe i am confusing the 2.

Don't know.

[bondom34]

Just call us haterz and be done with it. We graded the same way for every team, again, just as last year. If you think we hate you then we hate everyone. I'm not putting up with your trolling us either way because we did this last year and yet here we are 12 months later.

i didnt call you a hater. I said Orlando players typically get a lot of hate on the trade board. I did use you as an example of someone that "hated" on Dipo, until he was on your team. Yes, you said you got more information and changed your mind. But he had yet to play a single game for OKC before you changed your mind. So all that information was out there when you poo-poo'd him.

He did that? For shame.

I'm done with this guy's opinion. The Magic didn't have a perfect offseason, but the new front office did enough for me to put my early trust in them. Obviously operating with a long term approach in mind. Happy they didn't bring any FAs back. Happy they didn't sign any backbreaking deals. Happy they are taking some low risk chances (Birch/Payne). Stoked that they brought in Simmons. Stoked that they drafted Groot and Iwundu. Would've liked to have seen them take better advantage of their later picks and perhaps make a trade using Vuc, but I can't complain too hard based off the other things they did. Just ready for the season to start so we can see what we got here. Anyone giving us a grade lower than an A- simply never understood our offseason execution plan. If they are judging us for not doing enough to put us in position to compete for a championship this year or next year, then yeah, they can give us an F for that matter because they would be idiots.

And you should be done. After all I gave the 2nd highest win total for the predictions and wasn't the lowest grade either. And I graded other teams worse. Clearly I have it in for you all and only did this to annoy you all.

[tiderulz]

Just call us haterz and be done with it. We graded the same way for every team, again, just as last year. If you think we hate you then we hate everyone. I'm not putting up with your trolling us either way because we did this last year and yet here we are 12 months later.

i didnt call you a hater. I said Orlando players typically get a lot of hate on the trade board. I did use you as an example of someone that "hated" on Dipo, until he was on your team. Yes, you said you got more information and changed your mind. But he had yet to play a single game for OKC before you changed your mind. So all that information was out there when you poo-poo'd him.

And i called myself out for being wrong with IBaka, who on paper should have meshed well with Vuc, not doing well. Though I dont think anyone thought it would be off the court and locker room issues with him more than his play. And that I thought Gordon could make that next step as a passable but not great SF. This is what we have with a GM who drafted players for athleticism instead of skills and shooting. 3+ years later, our PG and PF still are not good shooters.

going into last season, i did think they were going to make a jump. I didnt think Ibaka was going to be a quiet cancer like it looks like he became from reports after he was traded. And i did think that Gordon could make the move to SF. I guess i just didnt realize how bad he is on offense. I figured that if MKG has been able to make a go of it at SF, Gordon could too. Shows how much i was wrong on that.

But, I am allowed my opinion. And the people that wrote up the reviews, I have seen been, in my opinion, unduly harsh on Orlando for years. Slava and Bondom in particular.

maybe im wrong, i thought it was Bondom that cr#$ped on Dipo for awhile and said no way is he getting Ibaka and then promptly changed his tune once he was on OKC's team. there is another OKC mod, so maybe i am confusing the 2.

Don't know.

seems just like i said. people tend to #$@$ on Magic players until they go somewhere else. You can have a decent player and be a bad team.

[bondom34]

i didnt call you a hater. I said Orlando players typically get a lot of hate on the trade board. I did use you as an example of someone that "hated" on Dipo, until he was on your team. Yes, you said you got more information and changed your mind. But he had yet to play a single game for OKC before you changed your mind. So all that information was out there when you poo-poo'd him.

And i called myself out for being wrong with IBaka, who on paper should have meshed well with Vuc, not doing well. Though I dont think anyone thought it would be off the court and locker room issues with him more than his play. And that I thought Gordon could make that next step as a passable but not great SF. This is what we have with a GM who drafted players for athleticism instead of skills and shooting. 3+ years later, our PG and PF still are not good shooters.

going into last season, i did think they were going to make a jump. I didnt think Ibaka was going to be a quiet cancer like it looks like he became from reports after he was traded. And i did think that Gordon could make the move to SF. I guess i just didnt realize how bad he is on offense. I figured that if MKG has been able to make a go of it at SF, Gordon could too. Shows how much i was wrong on that.

But, I am allowed my opinion. And the people that wrote up the reviews, I have seen been, in my opinion, unduly harsh on Orlando for years. Slava and Bondom in particular.

maybe im wrong, i thought it was Bondom that cr#$ped on Dipo for awhile and said no way is he getting Ibaka and then promptly changed his tune once he was on OKC's team. there is another OKC mod, so maybe i am confusing the 2.

Don't know.

seems just like i said

It is. So you didn't call me a hater, just that I am "unduly harsh" and crapped on your players. Well then, there you have it. Again, I gave a totally fair (and later correct) analysis last year, didn't even give close to the worse win total and worst grade this year, and gave reasoning yet again.

But nah, blind hate is all we do. Sure man, if that's your MO go with it, but it's not how things have been.

Edit: And as for your edit, yes, the Magic have some decent players. They got a few more decent ones this offseason. That doesn't make for a magnificently high grade. I like Gordon and Isaac quite a bit and think Payton's got a shot at being an average starter. Outside of that I don't see a ton on the roster.

A C+ isn't a bad grade, it's saying I thought they didn't really do anything outstanding but didn't do anything truly awful either.

[tiderulz]

Don't know.

seems just like i said

It is. So you didn't call me a hater, just that I am "unduly harsh" and crapped on your players. Well then, there you have it. Again, I gave a totally fair (and later correct) analysis last year, didn't even give close to the worse win total and worst grade this year, and gave reasoning yet again.

But nah, blind hate is all we do. Sure man, if that's your MO go with it, but it's not how things have been.

you have to admit, you did kinda crap on Dipo UNTIL he was on your team. Then there seemed to be a different opinion of him, before he had even played a game for you. You mentioned that you got new or different information, but that information had always been out there.

Bad GM - gone
Draft pick - everyone seems to think he had extremely high potential. moved some later picks for some down the road ( I dont agree with, but at least they arent completely wasted)
Off-season signings - Mack on basically a 1+1 team option (good locker room guy, really liked by Utah players and fans, should increase bench if nothing else) Simmons ( low risk, decent contract for another guy that could either raise bench production or build on his playoff play and be a good part time starter). Speights, another great deal. All the guys should help reset the losing mind-set that has been with the team for 4-5 years. No bad contracts (DJ, Bismack).

So GM-improvement, Draft-improvement, Signings-improvement. and we got 4 "C"'s. C to me means you stayed the same/got a tiny bit worse. everything about this offseason was an improvement for Orlando, that cant be debated in my opinion.

by your own statements, we didnt have a key loss, you dont have a problem with Isaac as the draft pick, you liked Speights/Simmons, lukewarm on AA and didnt really like Mack, though only Simmons has more than 1 year guaranteed. and we got a better guy to run the front office. That all sounds like a good offseason to me.

And having a good offseason also doesnt mean that you run out and win 40-50 games, we will still be pretty bad, or if stars align maybe compete for the last PO spot. but even by your own words, just still seemed like a harsh grade. But, its your opinion, you put it out that and did your homework on it, I credit you for that.

[bondom34]

seems just like i said

It is. So you didn't call me a hater, just that I am "unduly harsh" and crapped on your players. Well then, there you have it. Again, I gave a totally fair (and later correct) analysis last year, didn't even give close to the worse win total and worst grade this year, and gave reasoning yet again.

But nah, blind hate is all we do. Sure man, if that's your MO go with it, but it's not how things have been.

you have to admit, you did kinda crap on Dipo UNTIL he was on your team. Then there seemed to be a different opinion of him, before he had even played a game for you. You mentioned that you got new or different information, but that information had always been out there.

Bad GM - gone
Draft pick - everyone seems to think he had extremely high potential. moved some later picks for some down the road ( I dont agree with, but at least they arent completely wasted)
Off-season signings - Mack on basically a 1+1 team option (good locker room guy, really liked by Utah players and fans, should increase bench if nothing else) Simmons ( low risk, decent contract for another guy that could either raise bench production or build on his playoff play and be a good part time starter). Speights, another great deal. All the guys should help reset the losing mind-set that has been with the team for 4-5 years. No bad contracts (DJ, Bismack).

So GM-improvement, Draft-improvement, Signings-improvement. and we got 4 "C"'s. C to me means you stayed the same/got a tiny bit worse. everything about this offseason was an improvement for Orlando, that cant be debated in my opinion.

by your own statements, we didnt have a key loss, you dont have a problem with Isaac as the draft pick, you liked Speights/Simmons, lukewarm on AA and didnt really like Mack, though only Simmons has more than 1 year guaranteed. and we got a better guy to run the front office. That all sounds like a good offseason to me.

And having a good offseason also doesnt mean that you run out and win 40-50 games, we will still be pretty bad, or if stars align maybe compete for the last PO spot. but even by your own words, just still seemed like a harsh grade. But, its your opinion, you put it out that and did your homework on it, I credit you for that.

We're grading on a different scale than I think you're interpreting. It's not a grade of who improved, it's a grade of use of assets. Who used what was available to them best to improve where they stand.

For context, after the IT/Kyrie trade, I now grade your offseason better than Boston's. My best offseason in the east is Charlotte because they got great use from next to no assets. I never disputed you improved, and my prediction and grade reads as such.

[tiderulz]

It is. So you didn't call me a hater, just that I am "unduly harsh" and crapped on your players. Well then, there you have it. Again, I gave a totally fair (and later correct) analysis last year, didn't even give close to the worse win total and worst grade this year, and gave reasoning yet again.

But nah, blind hate is all we do. Sure man, if that's your MO go with it, but it's not how things have been.

you have to admit, you did kinda crap on Dipo UNTIL he was on your team. Then there seemed to be a different opinion of him, before he had even played a game for you. You mentioned that you got new or different information, but that information had always been out there.

Bad GM - gone
Draft pick - everyone seems to think he had extremely high potential. moved some later picks for some down the road ( I dont agree with, but at least they arent completely wasted)
Off-season signings - Mack on basically a 1+1 team option (good locker room guy, really liked by Utah players and fans, should increase bench if nothing else) Simmons ( low risk, decent contract for another guy that could either raise bench production or build on his playoff play and be a good part time starter). Speights, another great deal. All the guys should help reset the losing mind-set that has been with the team for 4-5 years. No bad contracts (DJ, Bismack).

So GM-improvement, Draft-improvement, Signings-improvement. and we got 4 "C"'s. C to me means you stayed the same/got a tiny bit worse. everything about this offseason was an improvement for Orlando, that cant be debated in my opinion.

by your own statements, we didnt have a key loss, you dont have a problem with Isaac as the draft pick, you liked Speights/Simmons, lukewarm on AA and didnt really like Mack, though only Simmons has more than 1 year guaranteed. and we got a better guy to run the front office. That all sounds like a good offseason to me.

And having a good offseason also doesnt mean that you run out and win 40-50 games, we will still be pretty bad, or if stars align maybe compete for the last PO spot. but even by your own words, just still seemed like a harsh grade. But, its your opinion, you put it out that and did your homework on it, I credit you for that.

We're grading on a different scale than I think you're interpreting. It's not a grade of who improved, it's a grade of use of assets. Who used what was available to them best to improve where they stand.

For context, after the IT/Kyrie trade, I now grade your offseason better than Boston's. My best offseason in the east is Charlotte because they got great use from next to no assets. I never disputed you improved, and my prediction and grade reads as such.

Well, then i apologize, because thats not how it comes across.

[PennytoShaq]

A C+ is a fair grade. I go B- because I love Simmons and Isaac, plus I love how well we handled the cap and made the bench more reliable (this is what I am expecting at least).

Last year we had a new coach who got Ibaka and Biz, and while the rest of the league was going small, the Magic really sold that they could go big and make playoffs to the fanbase. It was not outside the realm of possibility to think that Gordon's shooting would not have regressed and that he had developed more of a wing offense over the summer.

I think the most disappointing thing is that the Magic brass did not know their own personnel. They should have known AG was not going to deliver at SF before the Serge trade, and then moved Dipo for picks or something else before they had to overpay him.

Anyway, I don't criticize anyone for believing the Magic's pitch that they could make the playoffs. I think Vogel is very much at fault as well and I would not be surprised if he gets fired this season if he does not show the new management that he can design a modern offense and defense.

Vogel was (or seemed like) a huge get for us last summer. It really bolstered the fanbase and got people thinking we could actually pull off a playoff run.

[bondom34]

you have to admit, you did kinda crap on Dipo UNTIL he was on your team. Then there seemed to be a different opinion of him, before he had even played a game for you. You mentioned that you got new or different information, but that information had always been out there.

Bad GM - gone
Draft pick - everyone seems to think he had extremely high potential. moved some later picks for some down the road ( I dont agree with, but at least they arent completely wasted)
Off-season signings - Mack on basically a 1+1 team option (good locker room guy, really liked by Utah players and fans, should increase bench if nothing else) Simmons ( low risk, decent contract for another guy that could either raise bench production or build on his playoff play and be a good part time starter). Speights, another great deal. All the guys should help reset the losing mind-set that has been with the team for 4-5 years. No bad contracts (DJ, Bismack).

So GM-improvement, Draft-improvement, Signings-improvement. and we got 4 "C"'s. C to me means you stayed the same/got a tiny bit worse. everything about this offseason was an improvement for Orlando, that cant be debated in my opinion.

by your own statements, we didnt have a key loss, you dont have a problem with Isaac as the draft pick, you liked Speights/Simmons, lukewarm on AA and didnt really like Mack, though only Simmons has more than 1 year guaranteed. and we got a better guy to run the front office. That all sounds like a good offseason to me.

And having a good offseason also doesnt mean that you run out and win 40-50 games, we will still be pretty bad, or if stars align maybe compete for the last PO spot. but even by your own words, just still seemed like a harsh grade. But, its your opinion, you put it out that and did your homework on it, I credit you for that.

We're grading on a different scale than I think you're interpreting. It's not a grade of who improved, it's a grade of use of assets. Who used what was available to them best to improve where they stand.

For context, after the IT/Kyrie trade, I now grade your offseason better than Boston's. My best offseason in the east is Charlotte because they got great use from next to no assets. I never disputed you improved, and my prediction and grade reads as such.

Well, then i apologize, because thats not how it comes across.

No worries, we thought that was understood but it wasn't ever fully explained.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Do not feed the troll

Just call us haterz and be done with it. We graded the same way for every team, again, just as last year. If you think we hate you then we hate everyone. I'm not putting up with your trolling us either way because we did this last year and yet here we are 12 months later.

i didnt call you a hater. I said Orlando players typically get a lot of hate on the trade board. I did use you as an example of someone that "hated" on Dipo, until he was on your team. Yes, you said you got more information and changed your mind. But he had yet to play a single game for OKC before you changed your mind. So all that information was out there when you poo-poo'd him.

And i called myself out for being wrong with IBaka, who on paper should have meshed well with Vuc, not doing well. Though I dont think anyone thought it would be off the court and locker room issues with him more than his play. And that I thought Gordon could make that next step as a passable but not great SF. This is what we have with a GM who drafted players for athleticism instead of skills and shooting. 3+ years later, our PG and PF still are not good shooters.

I see little difference between that and a GM who drafts players for long arms instead of skills and shooting. And its not just skills they passed on. The fact that DSJ just looks like an elite talent alone should bring our grade down to a C imo.

[Skin]

Just call us haterz and be done with it. We graded the same way for every team, again, just as last year. If you think we hate you then we hate everyone. I'm not putting up with your trolling us either way because we did this last year and yet here we are 12 months later.

i didnt call you a hater. I said Orlando players typically get a lot of hate on the trade board. I did use you as an example of someone that "hated" on Dipo, until he was on your team. Yes, you said you got more information and changed your mind. But he had yet to play a single game for OKC before you changed your mind. So all that information was out there when you poo-poo'd him.

And i called myself out for being wrong with IBaka, who on paper should have meshed well with Vuc, not doing well. Though I dont think anyone thought it would be off the court and locker room issues with him more than his play. And that I thought Gordon could make that next step as a passable but not great SF. This is what we have with a GM who drafted players for athleticism instead of skills and shooting. 3+ years later, our PG and PF still are not good shooters.

I see little difference between that and a GM who drafts players for long arms instead of skills and shooting. And its not just skills they passed on. The fact that DSJ just looks like an elite talent alone should bring our grade down to a C imo.

Groot and DSJ were 1a and 1b for me. I often went back and forth, but Groot definitely emerged for me. The REAL idiot teams are the ones that passed on DSJ after we passed on him. Hopefully Groot becomes a player you can admire down the line.

I'll say this... looking at the 2018 draft class and all the bigs... and the weakness at guard... Makes me wonder if we should've taken DSJ now and then a big next year.

[OrlandoNed]

i didnt call you a hater. I said Orlando players typically get a lot of hate on the trade board. I did use you as an example of someone that "hated" on Dipo, until he was on your team. Yes, you said you got more information and changed your mind. But he had yet to play a single game for OKC before you changed your mind. So all that information was out there when you poo-poo'd him.

And i called myself out for being wrong with IBaka, who on paper should have meshed well with Vuc, not doing well. Though I dont think anyone thought it would be off the court and locker room issues with him more than his play. And that I thought Gordon could make that next step as a passable but not great SF. This is what we have with a GM who drafted players for athleticism instead of skills and shooting. 3+ years later, our PG and PF still are not good shooters.

I see little difference between that and a GM who drafts players for long arms instead of skills and shooting. And its not just skills they passed on. The fact that DSJ just looks like an elite talent alone should bring our grade down to a C imo.

Groot and DSJ were 1a and 1b for me. I often went back and forth, but Groot definitely emerged for me. The REAL idiot teams are the ones that passed on DSJ after we passed on him. Hopefully Groot becomes a player you can admire down the line.

I'll say this... looking at the 2018 draft class and all the bigs... and the weakness at guard... Makes me wonder if we should've taken DSJ now and then a big next year.

Regarding your Isaac nickname; <insert "Stop trying to make X happen. It's not going to happen" meme>

[PennytoShaq]

Agree - Groot is a bad name. Let's let that one die.

Also agree that Isaac and DSJ were about even to me, and the teams who passed on DSJ before Dallas were fools. All of them.

That being said, LOL at people who think they can predict a guy's career path after summer league. Kris Dunn was supposed to win ROY after summer league last year and now they guy looks like a journeyman. Have to have some patience before firing off the complain cannons. I know that is tough around here, but give it a shot.

[Skin]

I see little difference between that and a GM who drafts players for long arms instead of skills and shooting. And its not just skills they passed on. The fact that DSJ just looks like an elite talent alone should bring our grade down to a C imo.

Groot and DSJ were 1a and 1b for me. I often went back and forth, but Groot definitely emerged for me. The REAL idiot teams are the ones that passed on DSJ after we passed on him. Hopefully Groot becomes a player you can admire down the line.

I'll say this... looking at the 2018 draft class and all the bigs... and the weakness at guard... Makes me wonder if we should've taken DSJ now and then a big next year.

Regarding your Isaac nickname; <insert "Stop trying to make X happen. It's not going to happen" meme>

Oh it's happening.

[HartfordWhalers]

It is not a good nickname.