Moderators: DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX, Morris_Shatford, 7 Footer
ExactlyFairview4Life wrote:Moose23 wrote:Raps in 4 wrote:
Boston was better according to what metric? We didn't face them in the playoffs, so there is no telling who would have won there. But in the only two areas we can compare (RS H2H and point differential), we were better.
How about we compare them where it matters? Wins.
So they were better than Cleveland too?
ForeverTFC wrote:This is a win for both Boston and the Cavs.
Not only does Boston get a better player, they also get out of having to pay IT his money.
ATLTimekeeper wrote:ForeverTFC wrote:This is a win for both Boston and the Cavs.
Not only does Boston get a better player, they also get out of having to pay IT his money.
They have to pay Irving his money a year later. They'll be committing to a guy with significant knee and feet injuries on his body who demanded a trade away from LeBron. It's swapping out one risk and inheriting another.
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:ATLTimekeeper wrote:ForeverTFC wrote:This is a win for both Boston and the Cavs.
Not only does Boston get a better player, they also get out of having to pay IT his money.
They have to pay Irving his money a year later. They'll be committing to a guy with significant knee and feet injuries on his body who demanded a trade away from LeBron. It's swapping out one risk and inheriting another.
Kyrie will be 27 years old when he's due for his next deal. Isaiah will be 29 when he's a free agent next year. Who would you rather give a 5 year, max money contract to? The 6'3, 27 year old or the 5'9, 29 year old?
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:ATLTimekeeper wrote:ForeverTFC wrote:This is a win for both Boston and the Cavs.
Not only does Boston get a better player, they also get out of having to pay IT his money.
They have to pay Irving his money a year later. They'll be committing to a guy with significant knee and feet injuries on his body who demanded a trade away from LeBron. It's swapping out one risk and inheriting another.
Kyrie will be 27 years old when he's due for his next deal. Isaiah will be 29 when he's a free agent next year. Who would you rather give a 5 year, max money contract to? The 6'3, 27 year old or the 5'9, 29 year old?
ATLTimekeeper wrote:CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:ATLTimekeeper wrote:
They have to pay Irving his money a year later. They'll be committing to a guy with significant knee and feet injuries on his body who demanded a trade away from LeBron. It's swapping out one risk and inheriting another.
Kyrie will be 27 years old when he's due for his next deal. Isaiah will be 29 when he's a free agent next year. Who would you rather give a 5 year, max money contract to? The 6'3, 27 year old or the 5'9, 29 year old?
Neither. I would have drafted Fultz, traded for Butler.
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:ATLTimekeeper wrote:CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
Kyrie will be 27 years old when he's due for his next deal. Isaiah will be 29 when he's a free agent next year. Who would you rather give a 5 year, max money contract to? The 6'3, 27 year old or the 5'9, 29 year old?
Neither. I would have drafted Fultz, traded for Butler.
Couldn't have. Bulls wanted the 2017 Nets pick.
Poetry-In-Motion wrote:CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Neither. I would have drafted Fultz, traded for Butler.
Couldn't have. Bulls wanted the 2017 Nets pick.
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Poetry-In-Motion wrote:CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
Couldn't have. Bulls wanted the 2017 Nets pick.
Like I said, they couldn't have gotten Fultz AND Butler. The Bulls wanted the 3rd pick in this year's draft, which the Celtics only had AFTER they traded with Philly.
FWIW, the Celtics did offer the pick at the deadline but the Bulls wanted Crowder. Ainge countered with 2 offers - Crowder and the pick, top 2 protected, or the pick, unprotected but without Crowder. Bulls turned down both offers.
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Poetry-In-Motion wrote:CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
Couldn't have. Bulls wanted the 2017 Nets pick.
Like I said, they couldn't have gotten Fultz AND Butler. The Bulls wanted the 3rd pick in this year's draft, which the Celtics only had AFTER they traded with Philly.
FWIW, the Celtics did offer the pick at the deadline but the Bulls wanted Crowder. Ainge countered with 2 offers - Crowder and the pick, top 2 protected, or the pick, unprotected but without Crowder. Bulls turned down both offers.
Poetry-In-Motion wrote:CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Poetry-In-Motion wrote:
Like I said, they couldn't have gotten Fultz AND Butler. The Bulls wanted the 3rd pick in this year's draft, which the Celtics only had AFTER they traded with Philly.
FWIW, the Celtics did offer the pick at the deadline but the Bulls wanted Crowder. Ainge countered with 2 offers - Crowder and the pick, top 2 protected, or the pick, unprotected but without Crowder. Bulls turned down both offers.
You're missing the point. There was a time in the summer (June 16th and earlier) where the Celtics DID HAVE the #1 overall pick for the 2017 draft and the 2018 Nets Pick which neither was on the table for Butler since early June. The 2018 Unprotected Nets Pick could have been used as the foundation without any 2017 pick (because it was #1 and understood as untouchable) to get Butler. Would Jaylen Brown And/Or Jae Crowder had to be involved? Probably, but.. they were in a real good position assets wise to draft Fultz, and trade the rest of the assets for Butler, while still having Isaiah, and still maxing Hayward.
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Poetry-In-Motion wrote:CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
Like I said, they couldn't have gotten Fultz AND Butler. The Bulls wanted the 3rd pick in this year's draft, which the Celtics only had AFTER they traded with Philly.
FWIW, the Celtics did offer the pick at the deadline but the Bulls wanted Crowder. Ainge countered with 2 offers - Crowder and the pick, top 2 protected, or the pick, unprotected but without Crowder. Bulls turned down both offers.
You're missing the point. There was a time in the summer (June 16th and earlier) where the Celtics DID HAVE the #1 overall pick for the 2017 draft and the 2018 Nets Pick which neither was on the table for Butler since early June. The 2018 Unprotected Nets Pick could have been used as the foundation without any 2017 pick (because it was #1 and understood as untouchable) to get Butler. Would Jaylen Brown And/Or Jae Crowder had to be involved? Probably, but.. they were in a real good position assets wise to draft Fultz, and trade the rest of the assets for Butler, while still having Isaiah, and still maxing Hayward.
Can't get Hayward if they make that deal in June since taking on Butler would have eaten into their cap space then.
Smitson wrote:CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Poetry-In-Motion wrote:
Like I said, they couldn't have gotten Fultz AND Butler. The Bulls wanted the 3rd pick in this year's draft, which the Celtics only had AFTER they traded with Philly.
FWIW, the Celtics did offer the pick at the deadline but the Bulls wanted Crowder. Ainge countered with 2 offers - Crowder and the pick, top 2 protected, or the pick, unprotected but without Crowder. Bulls turned down both offers.
Yet you give up Crowder, an unprotected nets pick AND IT just for Irving?
I would've much rather traded that nets pick and Crowder for Butler myself.
Poetry-In-Motion wrote:CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Poetry-In-Motion wrote:
You're missing the point. There was a time in the summer (June 16th and earlier) where the Celtics DID HAVE the #1 overall pick for the 2017 draft and the 2018 Nets Pick which neither was on the table for Butler since early June. The 2018 Unprotected Nets Pick could have been used as the foundation without any 2017 pick (because it was #1 and understood as untouchable) to get Butler. Would Jaylen Brown And/Or Jae Crowder had to be involved? Probably, but.. they were in a real good position assets wise to draft Fultz, and trade the rest of the assets for Butler, while still having Isaiah, and still maxing Hayward.
Can't get Hayward if they make that deal in June since taking on Butler would have eaten into their cap space then.
Incorrect. Not impossible. Smart, Bradley (traded anyways), Crowder (traded anyways), BKN 2018 Unprotected Pick, and Jaylen Brown for Jimmy Butler works and makes space to sign Hayward to a max deal, and still keeping IT and drafting Markelle Fultz.
Poetry-In-Motion wrote:CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Poetry-In-Motion wrote:
You're missing the point. There was a time in the summer (June 16th and earlier) where the Celtics DID HAVE the #1 overall pick for the 2017 draft and the 2018 Nets Pick which neither was on the table for Butler since early June. The 2018 Unprotected Nets Pick could have been used as the foundation without any 2017 pick (because it was #1 and understood as untouchable) to get Butler. Would Jaylen Brown And/Or Jae Crowder had to be involved? Probably, but.. they were in a real good position assets wise to draft Fultz, and trade the rest of the assets for Butler, while still having Isaiah, and still maxing Hayward.
Can't get Hayward if they make that deal in June since taking on Butler would have eaten into their cap space then.
Incorrect. Not impossible. Smart, Bradley (traded anyways), Crowder (traded anyways), BKN 2018 Unprotected Pick, and Jaylen Brown for Jimmy Butler works and makes space to sign Hayward to a max deal, and still keeping IT and drafting Markelle Fultz.
Raps in 4 wrote:Mr Burns wrote:Raps in 4 wrote:
Those are just volume stats. His advanced metrics (which don't really care if a player is option A or B) are the same as they were throughout the regular season. Again, he's a great player, but volume stats don't prove in any way that he's poised to become an MVP-level talent this year.
There you go again just brushing off every stat. You always have an excuse to discredit him its actually pretty hilarious how hard you're trying.
Volume stats don't need me to "brush them off". They've been proven time and time again to be irrelevant in determining player productivity.
They're even more irrelevant when you consider the small sample size.
So its ok for LeBron fans to say the Cavs sucked without LeBron for 27 games over a 3 year period but 39 games worth of stats is not good enough for Kyrie Irving over two years in the playoffs. Keep pushing the narrative though.nabbs wrote:Regardless of Kyrie taking the next type as a leader/player, and how a motivated Crowder and IT perform with a guy like LeBron by their side, I will evaluate this trade on where this pick lands. BKN struggling out of the gate makes the Cavs a dangerous threat at the trade deadline to acquire another star. Even if the pick lands in the 6-10 range, it's still a tradable asset that Cleveland can package with an expiring like Frye to get someone of value. Boston giving up this pick will always bother me.
Furthermore, by giving up Crowder, you are asking a lot of a rookie Ojeleye to fill the void Crowder's departure has now created and you are also asking Jaylen Brown to take a massive leap this coming season. Huge risk for the Celtics.