Triangle or Showtime?

[Slink]

So I want to know which offense you guys would consider to be better overall. Showtime Lakers with Magic won 5 as did Kobe with Phil's triangle. I know the Triangle is unsuitable for Lonzo as some are calling him the second coming of the Showtime era, but would Luke implement the triangle sometime in the future if his motion offense fails?

Thoughts?

[Dr Aki]

The triangle won 11 rings, and probably more from the 70s and earlier. It is a read and react motion offense based around the triple post and is an actual offense system.

Showtime was less a system and more a basketball philosophy, and described the infusion of Magic's personality and Hollywood glam into a run and gun fast break style and a collection of set plays designed to maximise the personnel the Lakers had but could also rely upon Kareem's indomitable offense in the half court.

Luke's motion offense might already incorporate some aspects of the triangle, we knew the Warriors ran some triangle sets when Luke was still an assistant (Kerr probably had the knowledge as well).

Frankly I think it's horses for courses, play the best system for the personnel you have

[danfantastk32]

The triangle won 11 rings, and probably more from the 70s and earlier. It is a read and react motion offense based around the triple post and is an actual offense system.

Showtime was less a system and more a basketball philosophy, and described the infusion of Magic's personality and Hollywood glam into a run and gun fast break style and a collection of set plays designed to maximise the personnel the Lakers had but could also rely upon Kareem's indomitable offense in the half court.

Luke's motion offense might already incorporate some aspects of the triangle, we knew the Warriors ran some triangle sets when Luke was still an assistant (Kerr probably had the knowledge as well).

Frankly I think it's horses for courses, play the best system for the personnel you have

I agree. Showtime was more about the whole evening at a Laker game. Magic did his thing. Sounds like Magic is giving Lonzo the keys, and he'll be doing his thing. I think the Triangle officially got buried in NY this last go-round. Nobody seems to be able to coach a semi-decent team with it, except Phil. And even with him upstairs....it was a disaster.

The Triangle had it's time (and let's be fair that Jordan/Pippen & Kobe/Shaq are gonna make alot of systems look awesome) but I think it's time has passed....and nobody not named Phil Jackson seems to be able to make it actually win games. I vote we move on, and go with something else

[SlimShady83]

Not even looking at the replies

It's Showtime ... With the team we got it's more suited for it

[stan francisco]

The triangle won 11 rings, and probably more from the 70s and earlier. It is a read and react motion offense based around the triple post and is an actual offense system.

Showtime was less a system and more a basketball philosophy, and described the infusion of Magic's personality and Hollywood glam into a run and gun fast break style and a collection of set plays designed to maximise the personnel the Lakers had but could also rely upon Kareem's indomitable offense in the half court.

Luke's motion offense might already incorporate some aspects of the triangle, we knew the Warriors ran some triangle sets when Luke was still an assistant (Kerr probably had the knowledge as well).

Frankly I think it's horses for courses, play the best system for the personnel you have

Agreed. I think the default state with this roster will be run and gun. Poll needs a third option, it's gonna be motion offense with a sprinkle of triple post in the half court. I say use triangle or motion offense or whatever system as you please, Luke. I think we might see more triangle next season, leading up to the playoffs.

[dAdo dA dEvil]

With the roster that we have I say Showtime. I can't help it but I think to be able to be successful with a triangle you gotta have a great SG like MJ and Kobe. And yeah, Phil of course.

[gts1]

better overall offense? for any team.. Triangle does more with less. Lakers 80s team won because of the players on the floor, not the system.. with Magic at the helm, Kareem, Worthy and crew you could run almost system and win games, heck they won a title before Riles took over as head coach whereas with Kobe, Shaq, the Bulls they had great players obviously but it was Phil and the triangle that turned them into champions by getting the most out of the role players

[stan francisco]

This team is not built for the triangle. Personally, I think hardnosed defense and run and gun is the way, but for the playoffs, Luke will have them hipped on some of the triple post looks.

And yes, the triangle offense is the best offensive system in a half court situation.

[J_LA]

When 00-02 teams ran the triangle to perfection it was a thing of beauty.

[Sedale Threatt]

Showtime was built around the singular talents of a wholly unique genius. It will never be duplicated again. And people forget -- by the end of his career, Magic was just as good, if not better, in the half court than he was in the open court.

The triangle, on the other hand, is an actual offensive system. You need that structure -- which Showtime still had with Magic, Kareem and Worthy all being excellent post-up players -- when the game slows down in the playoffs.

That said, the triangle's reputation is somewhat overblown. There's no real difference in it, or what Walton is trying to install from his time with the Warriors, or what the Spurs were doing a few years ago, or the Suns before them. The only real difference is what tempo you're playing at. Otherwise, it's still just ball/player movement and spacing.

[MelosSoreWrist]

Triangle is specific offenses in a half court set. Showtime is a brand connected to the 80s fast break style of the Lakers. You can have both. In fact guys like Ball, Lebron, PG would be great for them.

[LAKESHOW]

I think we're are gonna do both. Trust me, when the kid gets the rock, we are going to run when he has opportunity. But also, the half court system is a derivative from Phil's schemes. The warriors coach said he uses some of Phil's stuff, mixed in with different schemes as well. But both Kerr and Luke are former players under Phil. So you better believe they are using some of Phil's stuff. But mixed with new twists. But oh yeah, we are getting out on the break much much more with Lonzo. That's for sure.

[Kilroy]

Showtime requires an elite rim protector. Right now, that's our only real glaring need.

Whereas, I think for the Triangle we'd need an elite back to the basket C to facilitate from inside...

I think we're closer to Showtime... That said, Sedale's right... Showtime is likely never going to be fully reproduced... It would have looked funny if half the time they were in transition, they pulled up at the 3pt line... Or if Magic threaded the needle to Worthy under the basket, he passed it back out to Scott for the long jumper... Doesn't really have the same 'Show'...

[Spens1]

Showtime is way more fun to watch (its the best style of basketball ever from a neutral and viewers standpoint). The triangle however was more sustainable, we had absolute scrubs playing at P.G and were elite. Our S.F's weren't that much better, but because of the system, we were able to adapt and make do.

For both, you need the right players, especially the triangle, or else you get Rambis with Minnesota.

[danfantastk32]

I think we're are gonna do both. Trust me, when the kid gets the rock, we are going to run when he has opportunity. But also, the half court system is a derivative from Phil's schemes. The warriors coach said he uses some of Phil's stuff, mixed in with different schemes as well. But both Kerr and Luke are former players under Phil. So you better believe they are using some of Phil's stuff. But mixed with new twists. But oh yeah, we are getting out on the break much much more with Lonzo. That's for sure.

Poor Tex.

[Slink]

I think we're are gonna do both. Trust me, when the kid gets the rock, we are going to run when he has opportunity. But also, the half court system is a derivative from Phil's schemes. The warriors coach said he uses some of Phil's stuff, mixed in with different schemes as well. But both Kerr and Luke are former players under Phil. So you better believe they are using some of Phil's stuff. But mixed with new twists. But oh yeah, we are getting out on the break much much more with Lonzo. That's for sure.

Poor Tex.

Poor Sam Barry.

[NPZ]

better overall offense? for any team.. Triangle does more with less. Lakers 80s team won because of the players on the floor, not the system.. with Magic at the helm, Kareem, Worthy and crew you could run almost system and win games, heck they won a title before Riles took over as head coach whereas with Kobe, Shaq, the Bulls they had great players obviously but it was Phil and the triangle that turned them into champions by getting the most out of the role players

Overall, that's true, but if you see Laker losses from early 80s in particular all the way up to the point where they got Mychal T, you can clearly see how they NEEDED to run in order to win. If a rugged EC team could slow the pace down and make it into a halfcourt affair (while often trying to push them around), the Lakers often lost those games. Even Showtime. Look at how thin that early 80s squad was. They needed to run. I'll give you an example. This gm here. Low score, Lakers were slogging thru an Eastern trip in crappy locales and getting bogged down into halfcourt affairs.

Full recap:
https://youtu.be/37Gaw4aKftQ?t=1

End, Lakers lose at buzzer, 95-97 final score, at end Chick tells us what he thinks about running offense with that team:
https://youtu.be/37Gaw4aKftQ?t=783

[NBAWestFan]

Triangle is not rocket science

Anyone who played ball there is ususally to guys to pass to that make a triangle somewhere on the court.

Triangle makes sense for a baller.

[Dr Aki]

I would like to anoint the Lonzo version of Showtime - Ballywood