Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 1

[NavLDO]

If Shumpert really wants to be moved, would anyone want to pull a Dudley for Shump swap? Make almost the same money for the same amount of years.

No thanks. I understand the sense of it, but Dudley is worth more I think.

It makes so much more sense to hold onto our high character vet FIFY and to keep hotheads off the squad this year.

We are suddenly very thin. I could see us losing games as a result. Perhaps unsurprisingly, McD will go into another season with a ton of talent, little hope and valuable, moveable trade chips - really, just the one, Eric.

The tank is revving its engines.

I don't consider Chandler a 'high-character vet', TBH. As someone else mentioned a few weeks ago, it sure as heck did not seem as if he provided a whole-heck of a lot of 'mentor-ship' to Len the past two years; I believe he's been all about himself.

And yes, I am disappointed in this off-season so far.

Minnesota turned a disappointing Kris Dunn (equate to Bender), an ACL-torn Zach Lavine (a 'better' Davon Reed) and Markannen (a 'worse' Josh Jackson) into Jimmy Butler.

Boston turned a midget, aging, injured PG (IT), Crowder, a late-1st Rd pick (Zizic), and a probable mid-to-late lottery into a star PG. We could/should have given less, and gotten him.

OKC turned a mediocre Victor Oladipo and Sabonis?? We couldn't beat that?? Look at this comparison...almost carbon copies, even age-wise, they are separated by a mere 150 days or so.

http://bkref.com/tiny/vREv3

I know 90-95% of the board here is 100% NO on trading Jackson, but he's proven nothing yet...maybe he'll be good, but who knows. I DO know we have Jackson, Warren, Booker, Bledsoe, Bender, Chriss, Ulis, and Williams, with Dudley/Chandler/BK available for Salary Matching purposes, and none of them are on 'bad' contracts...BK you say?? I'll take his $14.5M for 3yrs over (his, remember, carbon-copy I just showed above,) Oladipo at $21M for 4yrs. Plus, we have two extra future draft picks, as well.

We also need to bring back Len, or go after Noel ASAP so they can become 'pieces' as well.

Point is, we have plenty of trade-worthy assets...just as many as Minny did, and sure, less than the Sixers, but that's ONE team. And if teams can turn a $21M Oladipo over 4 years into PG, then I really don't want hear about how 'terrible' our players are like Bender, Chriss, Warren, etc. They are every bit as good of assets, or better, than Kris Dunn, Zach Lavine, Sabonis, or $21M Oladipo.

And lastly...no, I do not advocate trading Booker...he's off the table, and IMO, Warren should be as well. He's poised to really break out this year if given the opportunity.

[carey]

Hello. How's it going?

[jredsaz]

Great! New three way!

BOS gets Kyrie
CLE gets Bledsoe, Crowder, Chandler or Dudley, Nets 1st (2018)
PHX gets Thomas, Shump, Frye, Zizic, Grizz 1st (2019), Cavs 1st (2018)

Boston gets their guy. Cleveland gets a better win now package and still lands the Nets first.

Suns get two extra picks and with improved health, Thomas can be traded during the season for assets. Suns can afford to wait and rehab him correctly with one of the best training staffs in the league. Bring him back in November/December, let him play for 10-15 games, then put him on the market. Thomas would be an amazing add for a team looking to make a playoff run.

Spurs, Nuggets, Clippers, Pelicans, TWolves, Thunder, Bucks, Heat, Hornets, Cavs, Pistons, could all have serious interests in a one year rental of a healthy Thomas. Many would love to sign him to a long term deal. His $6.3 million salary makes him incredibly moveable. Suns could cash in.

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[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Great! New three way!

BOS gets Kyrie
CLE gets Bledsoe, Crowder, Chandler or Dudley, Nets 1st (2018)
PHX gets Thomas, Shump, Frye, Zizic, Grizz 1st (2019), Cavs 1st (2018)

Boston gets their guy. Cleveland gets a better win now package and still lands the Nets first.

Suns get two extra picks and with improved health, Thomas can be traded during the season for assets. Suns can afford to wait and rehab him correctly with one of the best training staffs in the league. Bring him back in November/December, let him play for 10-15 games, then put him on the market. Thomas would be an amazing add for a team looking to make a playoff run.

Spurs, Nuggets, Clippers, Pelicans, TWolves, Thunder, Bucks, Heat, Hornets, Cavs, Pistons, could all have serious interests in a one year rental of a healthy Thomas. Many would love to sign him to a long term deal. His $6.3 million salary makes him incredibly moveable. Suns could cash in.

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Isiah would have to be sent to a fourth team.

[jredsaz]

Great! New three way!

BOS gets Kyrie
CLE gets Bledsoe, Crowder, Chandler or Dudley, Nets 1st (2018)
PHX gets Thomas, Shump, Frye, Zizic, Grizz 1st (2019), Cavs 1st (2018)

Boston gets their guy. Cleveland gets a better win now package and still lands the Nets first.

Suns get two extra picks and with improved health, Thomas can be traded during the season for assets. Suns can afford to wait and rehab him correctly with one of the best training staffs in the league. Bring him back in November/December, let him play for 10-15 games, then put him on the market. Thomas would be an amazing add for a team looking to make a playoff run.

Spurs, Nuggets, Clippers, Pelicans, TWolves, Thunder, Bucks, Heat, Hornets, Cavs, Pistons, could all have serious interests in a one year rental of a healthy Thomas. Many would love to sign him to a long term deal. His $6.3 million salary makes him incredibly moveable. Suns could cash in.

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Isiah would have to be sent to a fourth team.

Why?

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[darealjuice]

I don't consider Chandler a 'high-character vet', TBH. As someone else mentioned a few weeks ago, it sure as heck did not seem as if he provided a whole-heck of a lot of 'mentor-ship' to Len the past two years; I believe he's been all about himself.

And yes, I am disappointed in this off-season so far.

Minnesota turned a disappointing Kris Dunn (equate to Bender), an ACL-torn Zach Lavine (a 'better' Davon Reed) and Markannen (a 'worse' Josh Jackson) into Jimmy Butler.

Boston turned a midget, aging, injured PG (IT), Crowder, a late-1st Rd pick (Zizic), and a probable mid-to-late lottery into a star PG. We could/should have given less, and gotten him.

OKC turned a mediocre Victor Oladipo and Sabonis?? We couldn't beat that?? Look at this comparison...almost carbon copies, even age-wise, they are separated by a mere 150 days or so.

http://bkref.com/tiny/vREv3

I know 90-95% of the board here is 100% NO on trading Jackson, but he's proven nothing yet...maybe he'll be good, but who knows. I DO know we have Jackson, Warren, Booker, Bledsoe, Bender, Chriss, Ulis, and Williams, with Dudley/Chandler/BK available for Salary Matching purposes, and none of them are on 'bad' contracts...BK you say?? I'll take his $14.5M for 3yrs over (his, remember, carbon-copy I just showed above,) Oladipo at $21M for 4yrs. Plus, we have two extra future draft picks, as well.

We also need to bring back Len, or go after Noel ASAP so they can become 'pieces' as well.

Point is, we have plenty of trade-worthy assets...just as many as Minny did, and sure, less than the Sixers, but that's ONE team. And if teams can turn a $21M Oladipo over 4 years into PG, then I really don't want hear about how 'terrible' our players are like Bender, Chriss, Warren, etc. They are every bit as good of assets, or better, than Kris Dunn, Zach Lavine, Sabonis, or $21M Oladipo.

And lastly...no, I do not advocate trading Booker...he's off the table, and IMO, Warren should be as well. He's poised to really break out this year if given the opportunity.

Zach LaVine is so much more valuable than Davon Reed it's not even funny. LaVine was the centerpiece of that trade coming off a 19/3/3 season shooting 57 TS% as the 3rd option, while Reed is like 3 months younger than Lavine and is unlikely to ever produce like that. Chicago also obviously valued Markkanen highly considering they passed on Frank and DSJ for him despite having no real PG options going forward unless you count Dunn, which I don't.

What makes you say the Brooklyn pick is probably mid-to-late lottery now? I don't see how they got any better. They lost their best player by a considerable margin that literally won them multiple games last year, and they replaced him with a terrible center and D'Angelo Russell, who hasn't exactly shown a big impact on winning basketball games yet.

It didn't make sense for us to go after PG. We definitely could have beat that offer, but why would we give up assets for a guy that has been publicly saying he wants to go to one of our division rivals? We'd be left looking like fools if we packaged TJ and Bender for PG, only for him to leave in the offseason for our division rival. At least OKC has a chance to bring him back because this might be able to get them to the WCF if PG and Russ mesh well, but it's more likely that they gave up 2 decent young players for a year rental.

If Len was viewed as having any significant value, he'd have some offer sheets right now. I'm fine bringing him back for cheap, but he's not going to be looked at as much more than a throw in if we dealt him.

I felt like this offseason was more about internal development. The more young talent we add and the sooner we focus on our young guys becoming the best players they can be, the sooner that we can turn these assets into better players while feeling comfortable that they won't leave at their first opportunity. Nothing in our treasure chest expired this offseason, and if we make strides this offseason I wouldn't be surprised if we started being more aggressive with dangling our pick and Miami's pick. I didn't like being blue-balled on KP and Kyrie this offseason either, but Phil got fired for even trying to trade KP and we appear to value JJ and our own pick too highly to be able to beat the Celtics' offer.

[Fo-Real]

LMFAO, the Kyrie trade, the **** show that keeps coming back for encors!! BOOOO, no more, this show sucks let it be over. We should STILL not be involved.

[King4Day]

What about a 3 way deal that replaces IT with both Smart and a Boston first going to Phoenix, with Bledsoe going to Cleveland?
I still think Smart would be a great defensive PG on a championship team.

[Kerrsed]

LMAO, i want to see the Cav's rescind this trade.

I mean what would Boston do? We know first hand the type of guy that IT is, and you have to think that he feels a bit salty towards the Boston FO for trading him after playing out of his mind for them and helping recruit every good player that the have acquired or went after. If the trade falls through, what do they do? You know IT would feel some type of way playing for the team that just traded him for another PG.

It would make things real interesting....

[gaspar]

Read on Twitter

[gaspar]

Read on Twitter

[gaspar]

Read on Twitter

[darealjuice]

Now that's interesting. Wonder what kind of offers they gave him if that 17M report isn't true? Can't imagine him being a Mav in 2018-2019 if this is the case.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I was saying over and over this year that the market for len and centers in general would be soft this summer but even i didn't think noel would take the QO. Now I also thought the talk of the mini max for noel was silly but figured hed get around 15 per. I'm not so sure the market will be any better for these guys next summer unless the cap takes a big spike.

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[Frank Lee]

Nerlans Nerlans.... bird in the hand bro. If he turned down 3 for 30 or so.... boy does he stand to lose some serious dough.... venturing into the DMO land of losses. Its not like next year will be any different. Arguably even worse for FAs as fewer teams will have 15-20 mill to spend on a roll player.

PS.... yeah, and what you said too Week

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Great! New three way!

BOS gets Kyrie
CLE gets Bledsoe, Crowder, Chandler or Dudley, Nets 1st (2018)
PHX gets Thomas, Shump, Frye, Zizic, Grizz 1st (2019), Cavs 1st (2018)

Boston gets their guy. Cleveland gets a better win now package and still lands the Nets first.

Suns get two extra picks and with improved health, Thomas can be traded during the season for assets. Suns can afford to wait and rehab him correctly with one of the best training staffs in the league. Bring him back in November/December, let him play for 10-15 games, then put him on the market. Thomas would be an amazing add for a team looking to make a playoff run.

Spurs, Nuggets, Clippers, Pelicans, TWolves, Thunder, Bucks, Heat, Hornets, Cavs, Pistons, could all have serious interests in a one year rental of a healthy Thomas. Many would love to sign him to a long term deal. His $6.3 million salary makes him incredibly moveable. Suns could cash in.

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Isiah would have to be sent to a fourth team.

Why?

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Perhaps because literally any other team would have a better chance to re-sign him. But I can think of lots of other reasons, too. Would we be better off waiving him, given that he won't want to be here and won't even pretend to consider re-signing with us? So why wouldn't he just stay in Cleveland with Bledsoe and Derrick Rose?

I honestly don't think Klutch Sports is eager to put Bledsoe in Cleveland. I just think that even if they did, it makes more sense for IT to land almost anywhere else. The thing I'd want in this Irving-IT-Nets thing is the pick. Send IT to a team that will give up a first rounder for him.

[bwgood77]

I was saying over and over this year that the market for len and centers in general would be soft this summer but even i didn't think noel would take the QO. Now I also thought the talk of the mini max for noel was silly but figured hed get around 15 per. I'm not so sure the market will be any better for these guys next summer unless the cap takes a big spike.

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Yeah, I think the market has dried up for Cs especially, but I've read that GMs expect kind of a FA market "depression" next offseason since we had our FA $$ bubble last offseason and with a couple teams this offseason. That's why I don't expect Warren to get any really big offers or him to be too pricey.

[LukasBMW]

Wow! What a news day!

1. Noel and Rich Paul are IDIOTS! With his injury history and inconsistent play, he should take the money and run! What a risk taking the QO!

2. If the Cavs veto the Irving/IT trade, this instantly becomes the most awkward trade reversal in history. It hurts the Celtics more then the Cavs though. IT is going to be soooooooo pissed they were ready to sell him out after his MVP quality season. Especially after he played through the loss of his sister.

3. I'm not sure a Cavs/Celtics trade reversal paves the way for an easy Suns trade. Seems like they'd still want Bledsoe, our unprotected #18 pick OR Jackson + another rotation player. That's too much. Bledsoe + Miami 18 is my max.

[NavLDO]

So, Y'all can spout off every reason you can think of to not want James here and scoff at adding DMC, but If McD can afford it...do you really think he will just ignore his job and not try? He has created the cap room, and could trim more. Lil ryan hasn't been able to get much more than a Kiss in free agency. He's been left front stoop time and time again.... but he keeps asking the prettiest girls out. I'll give him that. Why do you think he changes his tactics next year? The big eared Kid wants to go to prom badly.

Its an option I'd believe our front office has contemplated. Connecting some dots that other teams do not have. It may have started out as plan 'D'.... but when ABC fizzle out...what do you do?

May be think of some good things that could happen with it.


(GodDamn... did I just blow a sunshine kiss?)

Just trying to catch up a little; the last two weeks have been busier than normal and reading some old posts. Anyway, is there ANY chance that McD made a half-a$$ed effort at Kyrie, not really wanting him, because he knows he'd have a better chance at LeBron next year with Bledsoe, and now Jones in as VP?

I mean, let's face it, LeBron comes here, tells 'Mr. Jones' who he wants on the team, besides Bledsoe and Booker, and says..."GO!"

McD, meanwhile, thinks to himself that he has one more good 'tank-run' left in him to where he can assure the Suns of another top 10 pick (that's all it will take to either get a 'nice' Big, or trade the pick, or use the Mia + ours to trade up...whatever). But let's just say we get one of Wendell Carter, Jaren Jackson, or Robert Williams, as a worst case scenario...boo-hoo... (man, the top 10 next year is stacked with Bigs...minimum of 7, depending on how you classify Vanderbilt.) Anyway, I digress...

Bledsoe, Booker, LeBron--our core...for the moment (and if McD is smart, he signs Warren now, while we can, and have a favorable situation to do so, then he's an asset; breaks my heart, but it is what it is...). Then, Mr. Jones has the following available for trade:

Warren, Len (??), Bender, Chriss, Josh Jackson, Robert Williams (??), Miami Pick-player, BK, Ulis, Jones Jr., Dudley, and Chandler, both of which will be 'expirings' by then.

Now, I know our team stinks, and like I mentioned earlier, our assets are not as good those traded by other teams for stars this summer, like Ante Zizic, Injured IT, Kris Dunn, Zach Lavine, Domantas Sabonis, and Oladipo, but maybe we should at least try.

Seriously, so many here say how impossible it is for us to trade for stars, because our assets aren't worth anything, but I haven't been overly impressed with what's been traded so far by other teams. Minny has maintained Wiggins and KAT, and still got Butler, and not because what they traded away was awesome. We can 'keep' a couple of our favorites, and still have plenty of Ammo for a Star...I've been 'shot down' by a couple of posters saying we don't have the assets, but I'm sorry; the evidence is out there. We do not need to trade our best and brightest in order to bring in a star player. Once that happens, the better chance one follows. I hope McD knows what he's doing...

[Kerrsed]

Any one have any interest in Smart?

Saw a trade idea to help with the Boston/Cleveland trade, pretty much having us use Bledsoe to replace IT and getting Smart/Shumpert/BOS 1st in return.

I like the idea of a defensive PG next to Booker, but damn Smarts offense is bad.