ATL - New Lottery Rules Move to Owner Vote - pg59

coolhandluke121 · Post #281 » by **coolhandluke121** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:10 pm

Torn labrums vary in severity. I had a mild one for 10+ years and it barely affected me until my mid-30's. I was always considered plenty quick and athletic and only had severe pain on rare occasions. Then I wrenched it really bad and now I can hardly do anything and I'm in constant pain. I would definitely believe that I.T. could be done if he has a badly torn labrum. It's like a broken axle once your hip doesn't sit in the joint correctly anymore.

Even if he's DONE, the Cavs are still better off with Crowder + the pick IMO. Mids + Jabari would give them a lot of immediate help this year and still give them a player that some people feel still has significant upside.

raferfenix · Post #282 » by **raferfenix** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:26 pm

If Isaiah is out even just a significant portion of the season I wonder if the Cavs make another move for help in the backcourt.

Crowder makes it much easier for them to trade Love in particular. One of those two are coming off the bench at the moment (unless Lebron or Love play center I guess).

That could be tough to justify if they are otherwise stuck relying on Derick Rose as their best option at PG...

JayMKE · Post #283 » by **JayMKE** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:43 pm

Yeah if the Boston trade gets torpedoed then we should definitely open trade talks back up but it changes the leverage the Cavs have tho for sure. Irving I think could push us to contender status in the east this year, Golden State may be a juggernaut but I'd rather lose to them than be too cautious and never making a deep playoff run. There are risks either way but the worst possible outcome is that this team doesn't do enough to keep Giannis happy and he leaves, the fact we have a player that important means that we're ready. We finally have a superstar, Kyrie would make 2.

DingleJerry · Post #284 » by **DingleJerry** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:45 pm

If they could find a way to do without adding Middleton I'd be for it. The packages discussed like Mid, Brogdon, 1st just seem a bit too much. Though I do think it's very close, so I wouldn't call it the dumbest thing ever and freak out but I think it's a pass for me. Mostly because I don't think it gets us better than we currently are, somewhere in the 4-6 seed area. If you keep both you have a shot to win the East. I know Kyrie is better than Middleton but not by so much to give that much more up as well. Some combo of Brogdon, Delly, Thon, 1sts, Wilson, etc. and I could get behind.

Right after the trade I was asking about if the physicals were done as this was possible if not, turns out it is that serious

Fotis St · Post #285 » by **Fotis St** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:00 pm

Boston doesn't have a player-asset available that can replace IT in the deal. But I think Ainge is smart and if Cavs back down from the deal, he will try to get Brogdon from us.
I would not do a Jaylen Brown for Brogdon. It is not bad value but position wise we create a big hole on PG position where we actually need upgrade. If somehow we can get Kyrie or Tatum ... I am in. Hope the deal breaks cause Boston is set for multiple ECFs ... We need to get involved to stop the Kyrie trade if possible, or if they want us as a 3rd team, steal Tatum. Make Boston overpay.

LikeABosh · Post #286 » by **LikeABosh** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:02 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:If the Bucks do get involved, I hope to god it's to get that BK pick.

What are you considering? It'd have to be centered around Middleton I think

coolhandluke121 · Post #287 » by **coolhandluke121** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:14 pm

LikeABosh wrote:
coolhandluke121 wrote:If the Bucks do get involved, I hope to god it's to get that BK pick.

What are you considering? It'd have to be centered around Middleton I think

No doubt. Frye is expiring and they want to unload Shumpert, especially if they get Khris. I'd try to keep the throw-ins to a minimum and might balk at including Brogdon, but Wilson and a future protected first would be fine.

drew881 · Post #288 » by **drew881** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:34 pm

The trade isn't being rescinded. Cavs GM is playing this masterfully, and they'll get another future 1st round pick out of the deal. Thomas will probably play the second half of the season. They probably had a really good idea of the extent to his injury before this deal was agreed upon, and I wouldn't be surprised if they always planned to renegotiate after the physical.

Chuck Diesel · Post #289 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:57 pm

Chaos is a ladder

Post #290 » by **paulpressey25** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:08 pm

Cue the Ron Paul "It's happening" gif

DrWood · Post #291 » by **DrWood** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:26 pm

drew881 wrote:The trade isn't being rescinded. Cavs GM is playing this masterfully, and they'll get another future 1st round pick out of the deal. Thomas will probably play the second half of the season. They probably had a really good idea of the extent to his injury before this deal was agreed upon, and I wouldn't be surprised if they always planned to renegotiate after the physical.

If Ainge is smart, he just says nope and takes back his offer.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #292 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:39 pm

DrWood wrote:
drew881 wrote:The trade isn't being rescinded. Cavs GM is playing this masterfully, and they'll get another future 1st round pick out of the deal. Thomas will probably play the second half of the season. They probably had a really good idea of the extent to his injury before this deal was agreed upon, and I wouldn't be surprised if they always planned to renegotiate after the physical.

If Ainge is smart, he just says nope and takes back his offer.

I don't know about that. I guess it really comes down to what else Cleveland wants. If its just one of those late 1sts and you're confident that kyrie wants to be there long term then I'd still do it. Its even more appealing knowing IT is out and the cavs are weaker this year.

For Cleveland it really comes down to what they can get for kyrie from another team if they rescind the trade. None of us really know that so its hard to guage their leverage.

If it gets rescinded Boston's in a weird spot. Sure you get the pick back but now you have a hurt and pissed IT and a disgruntled crowder. I would assume at that point they try to move crowder for a PG but theres not a ton of obvious deals to do that at this point in the offseason. Maybe they could try and land Bledsoe or something.

What a mess.

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Prince12 · Post #293 » by **Prince12** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:43 pm

Cavs seeking more compensation. I find it hard to believe Ainge gives more but holy crap the cavs are getting the best from Irving.

DrWood · Post #294 » by **DrWood** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:48 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
DrWood wrote:
drew881 wrote:The trade isn't being rescinded. Cavs GM is playing this masterfully, and they'll get another future 1st round pick out of the deal. Thomas will probably play the second half of the season. They probably had a really good idea of the extent to his injury before this deal was agreed upon, and I wouldn't be surprised if they always planned to renegotiate after the physical.

If Ainge is smart, he just says nope and takes back his offer.

I don't know about that. I guess it really comes down to what else Cleveland wants. If its just one of those late 1sts and you're confident that kyrie wants to be there long term then I'd still do it. Its even more appealing knowing IT is out and the cavs are weaker this year.

For Cleveland it really comes down to what they can get for kyrie from another team if they rescind the trade. None of us really know that so its hard to guage their leverage.

If it gets rescinded Boston's in a weird spot. Sure you get the pick back but now you have a hurt and pissed IT and a disgruntled crowder. I would assume at that point they try to move crowder for a PG but theres not a ton of obvious deals to do that at this point in the offseason. Maybe they could try and land Bledsoe or something.

What a mess.

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If you and your wife already paid too much for a car, and then the dealer asks for $5K more on delivery or the deal won't go through, you bless your luck and rescind the deal.

bizarro · Post #295 » by **bizarro** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:17 am

DrWood wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
DrWood wrote:
If Ainge is smart, he just says nope and takes back his offer.

I don't know about that. I guess it really comes down to what else Cleveland wants. If its just one of those late 1sts and you're confident that kyrie wants to be there long term then I'd still do it. Its even more appealing knowing IT is out and the cavs are weaker this year.

For Cleveland it really comes down to what they can get for kyrie from another team if they rescind the trade. None of us really know that so its hard to guage their leverage.

If it gets rescinded Boston's in a weird spot. Sure you get the pick back but now you have a hurt and pissed IT and a disgruntled crowder. I would assume at that point they try to move crowder for a PG but theres not a ton of obvious deals to do that at this point in the offseason. Maybe they could try and land Bledsoe or something.

What a mess.

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If you and your wife already paid too much for a car, and then the dealer asks for $5K more on delivery or the deal won't go through, you bless your luck and rescind the deal.

This analogy fails, imho. If you PAY for a car, you don't get a physical AFTER you pay for it (apologies for capital letters - but, emphasis in this case is warranted). In any major professional sport, there is a post-trade physical needed to consummate a deal. This isn't rare. It's simply well-played on Cleveland's part.

If my wife and I paid too much for a car...well, we're idiots. I wouldn't do that, personally, because I actually know how cars work and I know how to repair most anything unleaded and diesel pre-2002. Anywho...

DrWood · Post #296 » by **DrWood** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:35 am

bizarro wrote:
DrWood wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:I don't know about that. I guess it really comes down to what else Cleveland wants. If its just one of those late 1sts and you're confident that kyrie wants to be there long term then I'd still do it. Its even more appealing knowing IT is out and the cavs are weaker this year.

For Cleveland it really comes down to what they can get for kyrie from another team if they rescind the trade. None of us really know that so its hard to guage their leverage.

If it gets rescinded Boston's in a weird spot. Sure you get the pick back but now you have a hurt and pissed IT and a disgruntled crowder. I would assume at that point they try to move crowder for a PG but theres not a ton of obvious deals to do that at this point in the offseason. Maybe they could try and land Bledsoe or something.

What a mess.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

If you and your wife already paid too much for a car, and then the dealer asks for $5K more on delivery or the deal won't go through, you bless your luck and rescind the deal.

This analogy fails, imho. If you PAY for a car, you don't get a physical AFTER you pay for it (apologies for capital letters - but, emphasis in this case is warranted). In any major professional sport, there is a post-trade physical needed to consummate a deal. This isn't rare. It's simply well-played on Cleveland's part.

If my wife and I paid too much for a car...well, we're idiots. I wouldn't do that, personally, because I actually know how cars work and I know how to repair most anything unleaded and diesel pre-2002. Anywho...

oh come on. be more creative.
The point is, if you get the chance to get out of a deal where you already think you were fleeced, you take it.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #297 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:58 am

DrWood wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
DrWood wrote:
If Ainge is smart, he just says nope and takes back his offer.

I don't know about that. I guess it really comes down to what else Cleveland wants. If its just one of those late 1sts and you're confident that kyrie wants to be there long term then I'd still do it. Its even more appealing knowing IT is out and the cavs are weaker this year.

For Cleveland it really comes down to what they can get for kyrie from another team if they rescind the trade. None of us really know that so its hard to guage their leverage.

If it gets rescinded Boston's in a weird spot. Sure you get the pick back but now you have a hurt and pissed IT and a disgruntled crowder. I would assume at that point they try to move crowder for a PG but theres not a ton of obvious deals to do that at this point in the offseason. Maybe they could try and land Bledsoe or something.

What a mess.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

If you and your wife already paid too much for a car, and then the dealer asks for $5K more on delivery or the deal won't go through, you bless your luck and rescind the deal.

Well if IT is super damaged goods and you think you will have kyrie for 6 or 7 years then I dont think they paid too much. I get the risk of the Brooklyn pick but with the roster they have to me its a risk i would take.

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Prince12 · Post #298 » by **Prince12** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:07 am

Mcadoo could only manage a two way deal from the Sixers. That's gotta be a hard pill to swallow for him.

Plossum · Post #299 » by **Plossum** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:18 am

Meh, he's not very good so not a huge shock.

Douggystyle29 · Post #300 » by **Douggystyle29** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:06 am

This is craziness! I hope IT is eventually ok, but I also hope the Cavs back out and we can get Kyrie. If we get Kyrie and win around 50 games this upcoming season and the AD Cousins duo doesn't work out, I think we have a really good chance of landing AD also. Call me crazy but talent attracts talent. Imagine the lineup of Giannis, Kyrie, AD, and a healthy Parker! I don't think the Warriors would even have a chance against us.
pg. Kyrie
sg. Snell
sf. Parker
pf. Giannis
c. AD
bench-It doesn't really matter