Me7o Thread: Hoodie edition

[HarthorneWingo]

But we're in the process of going young. #TrustTheProcess

that's fine. i'm just saying. half the players don't fit this concept they're promoting. if melo is here another year it won't really matter. noah is here 3 more. lance thomas. lee. koq. this year's knicks is gonna look a lot like last year's knicks.

I wouldn't say half. Assuming we can hopefully move melo. Knicks are going to have one of the youngest rosters in the league. Noah is not going to play. The only "older" guy that will get significant minutes is Lee and maybe sessions.

We should be able to trade Lee unless Hornacek expects to play him or Timmy at SF in anticipation of Melo being moved. I've wondered myself why Lee is still on the team. He had a nice season last year and is on a good contract.

[battabing10]

Are you agreeing with me?

Melo or no Melo I don't want our front office having vendettas against players exercising their contractual rights. Steve Mills was partially responsible for the NTC, so man up and take the L. Maybe he won't make the mistake of offering powerful clauses like an NTC to future contract negotiations. Stop compounding mistakes. And to be clear:

Ryan Anderson = Compounding the mistake
Keeping a salary hold on a waived player = compounding the mistake
Letting Melo play in whatever role deemed by Coach Hornacek = Taking the L and moving on from the mistake

if melo is on the team he's not the #1 option or the #2 ... maybe not even the #3 option.

if melo is on the team he's not ending games, kristaps will end games. thj will end games. willy will end games. and even frank will end games.

melo is on the team not because the knicks still want him, but because they don't want anderson.

So which small forward would you put on the floor to end games if not Melo? Still one spot open right?

This is a straw man question, because it assumes that the team is in win-now mode. You aren't the only one to ask it, to be fair.

You can be a rebuilding team and be a competitive one at that, but that doesn't require that melo is in the scenario you mentioned. The only people who will be offended by this notion are the ones who put melo *before* the team. The answer is basically Red Holzman's "find the open man."

[moocow007]

I'm happy we have a competent FO guy now who didn't take the emotional "get rid of him at all costs" approach that many Melo haters would of done months ago. Long term thinking is refreshing.

In the meanwhile, we should be looking to offload Lee / LFT / maybe KOQ asap. There are teams that could use these guys.

Shorter contracts / assets / prospects. Let's do this rebuild right.

Yeah agreed. Thus far it looks like Perry and Mills are using their big head instead of little head when making decisions.

[moocow007]

It's either he's back or there's a buyout. If he's back he's going to be here next year too. Melo wants zero part of free agency.

There won't be a buyout if Melo doesn't exercise his ETO.

We aren't buying out Melo for 2 years so he can go play in Houston.

And there's no way we can work something out with Melo where we can buy him out for this season without the option year counting against our cap. Do I have that right? Even if Melo agrees now not to exercise his option clause?

The ETO is an option to terminate a 5 year contract after the 4th year. While the ETO can't be used to terminate a contract before the end of the 4th year I don't believe that there's any limits on when it can be exercised. Meaning Anthony can exercise the option before the end of the 4th year at any point. Players usually wait for the last minute but IF Antony wants out badly enough and the Knicks insist that the only way it'll happen is if he exercises his ETO so they don't have to pay him for the 5th year, then he can exercise his ETO contractually as part of the buyout.

[Jalen Bluntson]

There won't be a buyout if Melo doesn't exercise his ETO.

We aren't buying out Melo for 2 years so he can go play in Houston.

And there's no way we can work something out with Melo where we can buy him out for this season without the option year counting against our cap. Do I have that right? Even if Melo agrees now not to exercise his option clause?

The ETO is an option to terminate a 5 year contract after the 4th year. While the ETO can't be used to terminate a contract before the end of the 4th year I don't believe that there's any limits on when it can be exercised. Meaning Anthony can exercise the option before the end of the 4th year at any point. Players usually wait for the last minute but IF Antony wants out badly enough and the Knicks insist that the only way it'll happen is if he exercises his ETO so they don't have to pay him for the 5th year, then he can exercise his ETO contractually as part of the buyout.

I was under the impression he couldn't opt out until after the season.

[Handledatruth]

if melo is on the team he's not the #1 option or the #2 ... maybe not even the #3 option.

if melo is on the team he's not ending games, kristaps will end games. thj will end games. willy will end games. and even frank will end games.

melo is on the team not because the knicks still want him, but because they don't want anderson.

So which small forward would you put on the floor to end games if not Melo? Still one spot open right?

This is a straw man question, because it assumes that the team is in win-now mode. You aren't the only one to ask it, to be fair.

You can be a rebuilding team and be a competitive one at that, but that doesn't require that melo is in the scenario you mentioned. The only people who will be offended by this notion are the ones who put melo *before* the team. The answer is basically Red Holzman's "find the open man."

First of all, I don't believe in the term win-now mode. Every team should be striving towards having a shot at a championship when making personnel moves. It is up to the GM to balance the acquisition of younger talent versus experienced vets while keeping the salary cap manageable. Keeping it simple if you believe in a "win-now" mode then you also will believe in a "lose-now" mode. And trust me, I am well aware of teams that have taken that road. You should also realize that these same teams have shown no tangible positive results from this approach.

You know the tangible results I have seen? From teams like the Boston Celtics, the Lakers, and the Spurs who somehow manage to make moves that promote a winning culture in their organization. Have there been some tough seasons for these teams? Of course, but the goal is always to move forward and have a shot to win a championship every year.

Now back to Melo. As I've stated repeatedly in these threads I really don't care whether or not Melo is a Knick next year. What I do care about is the culture of the team moving forward. I want our coach to be the one who enforces this culture and our GM/President to add players that fit into it. If Melo comes into training camp and still shows he is the best small forward on the team then he should be the one who gets the most playing time on one condition. This condition is that Melo should be fall in line with the coach's vision to be a scrappy, hard working, and a defensive team. If he does not THEN you start take his minutes. At that point it will be a COACH'S DECISION and sends a message to the entire team about the culture that is being promoted moving forward. You do not want that message to look like it comes from Dolan, Mills, and crew by just benching the man for not waiving his NTC. That is a dumb idea and is majority what I see anti-Melo/whatever people preaching on here. btw I suggest you look up what a straw man argument actually is...

[HarthorneWingo]

There won't be a buyout if Melo doesn't exercise his ETO.

We aren't buying out Melo for 2 years so he can go play in Houston.

And there's no way we can work something out with Melo where we can buy him out for this season without the option year counting against our cap. Do I have that right? Even if Melo agrees now not to exercise his option clause?

The ETO is an option to terminate a 5 year contract after the 4th year. While the ETO can't be used to terminate a contract before the end of the 4th year I don't believe that there's any limits on when it can be exercised. Meaning Anthony can exercise the option before the end of the 4th year at any point. Players usually wait for the last minute but IF Antony wants out badly enough and the Knicks insist that the only way it'll happen is if he exercises his ETO so they don't have to pay him for the 5th year, then he can exercise his ETO contractually as part of the buyout.

Then that option year for the 2018-19 would NOT count against the cap under that scenario?

[Jalen Bluntson]

So which small forward would you put on the floor to end games if not Melo? Still one spot open right?

This is a straw man question, because it assumes that the team is in win-now mode. You aren't the only one to ask it, to be fair.

You can be a rebuilding team and be a competitive one at that, but that doesn't require that melo is in the scenario you mentioned. The only people who will be offended by this notion are the ones who put melo *before* the team. The answer is basically Red Holzman's "find the open man."

First of all, I don't believe in the term win-now mode. Every team should be striving towards having a shot at a championship when making personnel moves. It is up to the GM to balance the acquisition of younger talent versus experienced vets while keeping the salary cap manageable. Keeping it simple if you believe in a "win-now" mode then you also will believe in a "lose-now" mode. And trust me, I am well aware of teams that have taken that road. You should also realize that these same teams have shown no tangible positive results from this approach.

You know the tangible results I have seen? From teams like the Boston Celtics, the Lakers, and the Spurs who somehow manage to make moves that promote a winning culture in their organization. Have there been some tough seasons for these teams? Of course, but the goal is always to move forward and have a shot to win a championship every year.

Now back to Melo. As I've stated repeatedly in these threads I really don't care whether or not Melo is a Knick next year. What I do care about is the culture of the team moving forward. I want our coach to be the one who enforces this culture and our GM/President to add players that fit into it. If Melo comes into training camp and still shows he is the best small forward on the team then he should be the one who gets the most playing time on one condition. This condition is that Melo should be fall in line with the coach's vision to be a scrappy, hard working, and a defensive team. If he does not THEN you start take his minutes. At that point it will be a COACH'S DECISION and sends a message to the entire team about the culture that is being promoted moving forward. You do not want that message to look like it comes from Dolan, Mills, and crew by just benching the man for not waiving his NTC. That is a dumb idea and is majority what I see anti-Melo/whatever people preaching on here. btw I suggest you look up what a straw man argument actually is...

Your win now point was a little weak. When a team is in win now mode it means they are close to winning a chip and they pay the price to get there. Something Houston is not willing to do apparently. They also only have a small window due to age and/or cap issues.

Lose now mode? Tanking? That's a GM decision. Not a HC/player decision. It's called a rebuild. We are stuck in neutral because of the NTC. We are in "lose now" mode. All it means is let the youth steer the ship. Develop them primarily and let the chips fall where they may. Melo doesn't fit that mode. If he is still here...the people like myself that believe his role and minutes should be reduced...want the HC to make that choice. Not to punish him. Just because it is the ONLY logical step to help develop the youth. Focus on them.

If Melo is here playing 36mpg and going for his...players will be left out. Touches/shots will be going to a player who most likely is gone soon. A player who relishes his stats and legacy over the team. His role logically has to be limited. THEN you decide if he's playing team ball/defense and take more minutes away...as punishment. The latter goes for everyone though. Not Melo exclusive.

The other reason you limit his minutes is to keep him healthy. No sense running him into the ground. He gets hurt and you're stuck with him.

He's on the block...its a short block because of him. You don't allow him to command what the coach is trying to do because he won't leave. He's not considered a part of the future. The team dynamic has to shift. How do you do that with Melo still a big part of the team? Ask him to defer and play like a 3rd/4th option? To lesser talent? Ask him to change his spots? I don't see it. I guess...you could try that to start the season though.

Melo needs to go. He is making that difficult. People who care more for the future of this team than Melos feelings and, can get over the past, are frustrated with his demands. Yet again they hurt the team. Thankful this time we have a GM who isn't dumb.

If Melo only wants Houston and they don't offer value...then he isn't going there. If he chooses to not expand his list(in an attempt to squeeze this team) then it is just logical that his role and minutes get reduced. Not as punishment...just to focus on the future.

[battabing10]

So which small forward would you put on the floor to end games if not Melo? Still one spot open right?

This is a straw man question, because it assumes that the team is in win-now mode. You aren't the only one to ask it, to be fair.

You can be a rebuilding team and be a competitive one at that, but that doesn't require that melo is in the scenario you mentioned. The only people who will be offended by this notion are the ones who put melo *before* the team. The answer is basically Red Holzman's "find the open man."

First of all, I don't believe in the term win-now mode. Every team should be striving towards having a shot at a championship when making personnel moves. It is up to the GM to balance the acquisition of younger talent versus experienced vets while keeping the salary cap manageable. Keeping it simple if you believe in a "win-now" mode then you also will believe in a "lose-now" mode. And trust me, I am well aware of teams that have taken that road. You should also realize that these same teams have shown no tangible positive results from this approach.

You know the tangible results I have seen? From teams like the Boston Celtics, the Lakers, and the Spurs who somehow manage to make moves that promote a winning culture in their organization. Have there been some tough seasons for these teams? Of course, but the goal is always to move forward and have a shot to win a championship every year.

Now back to Melo. As I've stated repeatedly in these threads I really don't care whether or not Melo is a Knick next year. What I do care about is the culture of the team moving forward. I want our coach to be the one who enforces this culture and our GM/President to add players that fit into it. If Melo comes into training camp and still shows he is the best small forward on the team then he should be the one who gets the most playing time on one condition. This condition is that Melo should be fall in line with the coach's vision to be a scrappy, hard working, and a defensive team. If he does not THEN you start take his minutes. At that point it will be a COACH'S DECISION and sends a message to the entire team about the culture that is being promoted moving forward. You do not want that message to look like it comes from Dolan, Mills, and crew by just benching the man for not waiving his NTC. That is a dumb idea and is majority what I see anti-Melo/whatever people preaching on here. btw I suggest you look up what a straw man argument actually is...

Good post, strong argumentation. I assumed you were a proponent of more Melo mpg for the main reason that it's an insult to his person to have him come off the bench. I guess I am wrong about that. Yet you are setting as a priority that one player (Melo) should be starting/getting more minutes based on a farfetched condition. It would be a wonderful thing if Melo bought in in that way and to a sufficient degree. I want that too, except I just don't expect it. So to me it's a big "if."

And to the degree it's a big if, I imagine the overarching agenda of building a competitive team with a more likely non-compliant Melo outweighs giving Melo significant minutes. Not sure.

At any rate, I have long thought the best-case scenario with Melo as a Knick was to have him come off the bench, but I have never thought of it as some form of punishment-- the Melostans paint it that way, which is foolish. And yes his detractors do want to paint a bench role as a form of punishment. So you get the punish Melo from two entirely distinct factions, which muddies the issue.

My belief is that a legit 3rd option on a contender (what he wants) = a great 6th man on a rebuilding team (where he is). So even were he to "outplay" other SF/PF on the new Knicks, I would still think a great 6th man off the bench is a legitimate course of action.

[Handledatruth]

This is a straw man question, because it assumes that the team is in win-now mode. You aren't the only one to ask it, to be fair.

You can be a rebuilding team and be a competitive one at that, but that doesn't require that melo is in the scenario you mentioned. The only people who will be offended by this notion are the ones who put melo *before* the team. The answer is basically Red Holzman's "find the open man."

First of all, I don't believe in the term win-now mode. Every team should be striving towards having a shot at a championship when making personnel moves. It is up to the GM to balance the acquisition of younger talent versus experienced vets while keeping the salary cap manageable. Keeping it simple if you believe in a "win-now" mode then you also will believe in a "lose-now" mode. And trust me, I am well aware of teams that have taken that road. You should also realize that these same teams have shown no tangible positive results from this approach.

You know the tangible results I have seen? From teams like the Boston Celtics, the Lakers, and the Spurs who somehow manage to make moves that promote a winning culture in their organization. Have there been some tough seasons for these teams? Of course, but the goal is always to move forward and have a shot to win a championship every year.

Now back to Melo. As I've stated repeatedly in these threads I really don't care whether or not Melo is a Knick next year. What I do care about is the culture of the team moving forward. I want our coach to be the one who enforces this culture and our GM/President to add players that fit into it. If Melo comes into training camp and still shows he is the best small forward on the team then he should be the one who gets the most playing time on one condition. This condition is that Melo should be fall in line with the coach's vision to be a scrappy, hard working, and a defensive team. If he does not THEN you start take his minutes. At that point it will be a COACH'S DECISION and sends a message to the entire team about the culture that is being promoted moving forward. You do not want that message to look like it comes from Dolan, Mills, and crew by just benching the man for not waiving his NTC. That is a dumb idea and is majority what I see anti-Melo/whatever people preaching on here. btw I suggest you look up what a straw man argument actually is...

Good post, strong argumentation. I assumed you were a proponent of more Melo mpg for the main reason that it's an insult to his person to have him come off the bench. I guess I am wrong about that. Yet you are setting as a priority that one player (Melo) should be starting/getting more minutes based on a farfetched condition. It would be a wonderful thing if Melo bought in in that way and to a sufficient degree. I want that too, except I just don't expect it. So to me it's a big "if."

And to the degree it's a big if, I imagine the overarching agenda of building a competitive team with a more likely non-compliant Melo outweighs giving Melo significant minutes. Not sure.

At any rate, I have long thought the best-case scenario with Melo as a Knick was to have him come off the bench, but I have never thought of it as some form of punishment-- the Melostans paint it that way, which is foolish. And yes his detractors do want to paint a bench role as a form of punishment. So you get the punish Melo from two entirely distinct factions, which muddies the issue.

My belief is that a legit 3rd option on a contender (what he wants) = a great 6th man on a rebuilding team (where he is). So even were he to "outplay" other SF/PF on the new Knicks, I would still think a great 6th man off the bench is a legitimate course of action.

I definitely don't care about Melo's ego. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed certain moments and time periods with him as a Knick, but I do see a bright future moving forward without him. What I don't agree with is our approach to moving on. Its like a Knick thing to have a nasty divorce with players every time. It doesn't have to be that way. I don't want a Kobe farewell tour, but with the new direction this team is going in every person should have the opportunity to prove that they fit into this mindset. I believe this includes Melo and some on this board believe he should be excluded because of their feelings towards him. If you want to approach a team concept moving forward, then you have to let go of the previous events and force players to once again earn their minutes. It includes Melo, KP, Baker, and even Noah.

This is how you rebuild and change culture. Not the GM and President handpicking who does and does not belong in the culture without doing anything from a personnel standpoint to amend the situation. My spidey senses makes me think that Jeff Hornacek will eventually be fired over the mess that the front office has been unable/unwilling to fix. I also think Steve Mills will be alright with this as long as he makes Melo the villain in all of it. Problem is, he has always been in complete control over how this scenario could play out and will probably once again escape accountability.

[blueNorange]

I'm happy we have a competent FO guy now who didn't take the emotional "get rid of him at all costs" approach that many Melo haters would of done months ago. Long term thinking is refreshing.

In the meanwhile, we should be looking to offload Lee / LFT / maybe KOQ asap. There are teams that could use these guys.

Shorter contracts / assets / prospects. Let's do this rebuild right.

Yeah agreed. Thus far it looks like Perry and Mills are using their big head instead of little head when making decisions.

ya and they're gonna decide that melo is not going to stunt the development of the young players, yet again.

[blueNorange]

So which small forward would you put on the floor to end games if not Melo? Still one spot open right?

This is a straw man question, because it assumes that the team is in win-now mode. You aren't the only one to ask it, to be fair.

You can be a rebuilding team and be a competitive one at that, but that doesn't require that melo is in the scenario you mentioned. The only people who will be offended by this notion are the ones who put melo *before* the team. The answer is basically Red Holzman's "find the open man."

First of all, I don't believe in the term win-now mode. Every team should be striving towards having a shot at a championship when making personnel moves. It is up to the GM to balance the acquisition of younger talent versus experienced vets while keeping the salary cap manageable. Keeping it simple if you believe in a "win-now" mode then you also will believe in a "lose-now" mode. And trust me, I am well aware of teams that have taken that road. You should also realize that these same teams have shown no tangible positive results from this approach.

You know the tangible results I have seen? From teams like the Boston Celtics, the Lakers, and the Spurs who somehow manage to make moves that promote a winning culture in their organization. Have there been some tough seasons for these teams? Of course, but the goal is always to move forward and have a shot to win a championship every year.

Now back to Melo. As I've stated repeatedly in these threads I really don't care whether or not Melo is a Knick next year. What I do care about is the culture of the team moving forward. I want our coach to be the one who enforces this culture and our GM/President to add players that fit into it. If Melo comes into training camp and still shows he is the best small forward on the team then he should be the one who gets the most playing time on one condition. This condition is that Melo should be fall in line with the coach's vision to be a scrappy, hard working, and a defensive team. If he does not THEN you start take his minutes. At that point it will be a COACH'S DECISION and sends a message to the entire team about the culture that is being promoted moving forward. You do not want that message to look like it comes from Dolan, Mills, and crew by just benching the man for not waiving his NTC. That is a dumb idea and is majority what I see anti-Melo/whatever people preaching on here. btw I suggest you look up what a straw man argument actually is...

lol none of this will happen

the knicks have already mentioned that their intent is to develop the young guys
the knicks have already mentioned they want to try lee or thj at SF
the knicks have already mentioned that kristaps is the #1 option
the knicks have already mentioned that they don't want thj and melo on the same court

what the knicks haven't said? that if the carmelo comes to camp and is the best sf on the team, he'll be the starter and will be a integral part of the offense.

[NYKAL]

see, you can't call out Melo's lack of defense will ignoring that the majority of the team lack any semblance of defense. That shyt smacks of a persoanl agenda to me.

[battabing10]

see, you can't call out Melo's lack of defense will ignoring that the majority of the team lack any semblance of defense. That shyt smacks of a persoanl agenda to me.

defense is a chain and only as strong as the weakest link. melo is a weak link. rose was a weak link. two weak links in a chain compounds the problem, ie it makes matters 4x worse, not just 40% of the problem. those two dragged down the defenisve effectiveness of the others who had to cover up their weaknesses. please tell me you understand this.

melo needs to lose weight like duncan did as he got older, get down to about 220 or so. that will help his defense.

[Handledatruth]

This is a straw man question, because it assumes that the team is in win-now mode. You aren't the only one to ask it, to be fair.

You can be a rebuilding team and be a competitive one at that, but that doesn't require that melo is in the scenario you mentioned. The only people who will be offended by this notion are the ones who put melo *before* the team. The answer is basically Red Holzman's "find the open man."

First of all, I don't believe in the term win-now mode. Every team should be striving towards having a shot at a championship when making personnel moves. It is up to the GM to balance the acquisition of younger talent versus experienced vets while keeping the salary cap manageable. Keeping it simple if you believe in a "win-now" mode then you also will believe in a "lose-now" mode. And trust me, I am well aware of teams that have taken that road. You should also realize that these same teams have shown no tangible positive results from this approach.

You know the tangible results I have seen? From teams like the Boston Celtics, the Lakers, and the Spurs who somehow manage to make moves that promote a winning culture in their organization. Have there been some tough seasons for these teams? Of course, but the goal is always to move forward and have a shot to win a championship every year.

Now back to Melo. As I've stated repeatedly in these threads I really don't care whether or not Melo is a Knick next year. What I do care about is the culture of the team moving forward. I want our coach to be the one who enforces this culture and our GM/President to add players that fit into it. If Melo comes into training camp and still shows he is the best small forward on the team then he should be the one who gets the most playing time on one condition. This condition is that Melo should be fall in line with the coach's vision to be a scrappy, hard working, and a defensive team. If he does not THEN you start take his minutes. At that point it will be a COACH'S DECISION and sends a message to the entire team about the culture that is being promoted moving forward. You do not want that message to look like it comes from Dolan, Mills, and crew by just benching the man for not waiving his NTC. That is a dumb idea and is majority what I see anti-Melo/whatever people preaching on here. btw I suggest you look up what a straw man argument actually is...

lol none of this will happen

the knicks have already mentioned that their intent is to develop the young guys
the knicks have already mentioned they want to try lee or thj at SF
the knicks have already mentioned that kristaps is the #1 option
the knicks have already mentioned that they don't want thj and melo on the same court

what the knicks haven't said? that if the carmelo comes to camp and is the best sf on the team, he'll be the starter and will be a integral part of the offense.

I've watched the press conferences and has looked through as many quotes possible. Even the post a couple of weeks ago with one of our Realgm members having a candid conversation with Mills and Perry. So excuse my fact checking.

the knicks have already mentioned that their intent is to develop the young guys - Yes
the knicks have already mentioned they want to try lee or thj at SF - When?
the knicks have already mentioned that kristaps is the #1 option - Yes
the knicks have already mentioned that they don't want thj and melo on the same court - When?

Actually lets really break it down.

You want to go young right? Ron Baker, Frank N, and some D-League PG should be enough. Instead you roll in Ramon Sessions. Why?
Why go all in on THJ when you have Kuz, Dotson, and Lee as potential wings. Why not just keep Holiday? He embodies the identity you are going for right?
Beasley? For what? He's the opposite of what you want and has all of Melo's worst qualities.

I say all of this just to tell you that the Steve Mills is voicing his intentions while actually doing opposite things. It's very concerning to me and the Melo situation is just ONE of many examples.

[NYKAL]

see, you can't call out Melo's lack of defense will ignoring that the majority of the team lack any semblance of defense. That shyt smacks of a persoanl agenda to me.

defense is a chain and only as strong as the weakest link. melo is a weak link. rose was a weak link. two weak links in a chain compounds the problem, ie it makes matters 4x worse, not just 40% of the problem. those two dragged down the defenisve effectiveness of the others who had to cover up their weaknesses. melo needs to lose weight like duncan did as he got older, get down to about 220 or so. that will help his defense.

Bad Defenders
Jennings
Plumlee
O'Quinn
Lee
Kuz
Hermongomez
Anthony
Lee
N'Dor

Good Defeners
Holiday
Baker
Thomas

What defensive chain when you have this list of piss poor defenders. Like I said, point out Melo alone is disengenuis. The majority of the team sucked ass on the defensive end.

edit: forgot to mention Rose

[GONYK]

Actually lets really break it down.

You want to go young right? Ron Baker, Frank N, and some D-League PG should be enough. Instead you roll in Ramon Sessions. Why?

To show Frank the ropes and eat up minutes without being real threat to hold the position of starter once Frank is deemed ready. Minimum signings are rarely worth inspecting.

Why go all in on THJ when you have Kuz, Dotson, and Lee as potential wings. Why not just keep Holiday? He embodies the identity you are going for right?

Because THJ is only 25, and flat out better than Holiday. The price tag is questionable, but the player fits the direction.

Beasley? For what? He's the opposite of what you want and has all of Melo's worst qualities.

Because if Melo is unloaded, somebody needs to eat mins and take shots. Even if Beasley is just like Melo, he makes the minimum, and doesn't present the same problem with optics when you bench him. He serves a very specific role for as little money as possible. Plus, he's only 28.

I say all of this just to tell you that the Steve Mills is voicing his intentions while actually doing opposite things. It's very concerning to me and the Melo situation is just ONE of many examples.

I don't there are a really any examples of Mills blatantly violating the vision he laid out.

[DOT]

see, you can't call out Melo's lack of defense will ignoring that the majority of the team lack any semblance of defense. That shyt smacks of a persoanl agenda to me.

defense is a chain and only as strong as the weakest link. melo is a weak link. rose was a weak link. two weak links in a chain compounds the problem, ie it makes matters 4x worse, not just 40% of the problem. those two dragged down the defenisve effectiveness of the others who had to cover up their weaknesses. melo needs to lose weight like duncan did as he got older, get down to about 220 or so. that will help his defense.

Bad Defenders
Jennings
Plumlee
O'Quinn
Lee
Kuz
Hermongomez
Anthony
Lee
N'Dor

Good Defeners
Holiday
Baker
Thomas

What defensive chain when you have this list of piss poor defenders. Like I said, point out Melo alone is disengenuis. The majority of the team sucked ass on the defensive end.

edit: forgot to mention Rose

OK, first, you mentioned Lee twice
Second, Lee is actually a good defender, so I have no idea what you're talking about
Third, Plumlee and NDour didn't see much time on court, and when they did, they at least gave 100% effort on both ends
Fourth, Willy is actually decent defensively
Fifth, you left Noah and KP off

So it should be
Rose, Jennings, KOQ, Kuz, Melo as bad defenders
Baker, Holiday, Lee, KP, and Noah as good defenders
Plulmee, Willy, NDour, and Thomas as not good defenders, but give effort on that end, which can't be said for any of the first 5

When people complain about Melo, it's cause he doesn't even try on defense, which is frustrating cause he has the tools and experience to at least be a positive defender. If he at least gave effort (see the 2016 season), he'd be criticized less

[NYKAL]

defense is a chain and only as strong as the weakest link. melo is a weak link. rose was a weak link. two weak links in a chain compounds the problem, ie it makes matters 4x worse, not just 40% of the problem. those two dragged down the defenisve effectiveness of the others who had to cover up their weaknesses. melo needs to lose weight like duncan did as he got older, get down to about 220 or so. that will help his defense.

Bad Defenders
Jennings
Plumlee
O'Quinn
Lee
Kuz
Hermongomez
Anthony
Lee
N'Dor

Good Defeners
Holiday
Baker
Thomas

What defensive chain when you have this list of piss poor defenders. Like I said, point out Melo alone is disengenuis. The majority of the team sucked ass on the defensive end.

edit: forgot to mention Rose

OK, first, you mentioned Lee twice
Second, Lee is actually a good defender, so I have no idea what you're talking about
Third, Plumlee and NDour didn't see much time on court, and when they did, they at least gave 100% effort on both ends
Fourth, Willy is actually decent defensively
Fifth, you left Noah and KP off

So it should be
Rose, Jennings, KOQ, Kuz, Melo as bad defenders
Baker, Holiday, Lee, KP, and Noah as good defenders
Plulmee, Willy, NDour, and Thomas as not good defenders, but give effort on that end, which can't be said for any of the first 5

When people complain about Melo, it's cause he doesn't even try on defense, which is frustrating cause he has the tools and experience to at least be a positive defender. If he at least gave effort (see the 2016 season), he'd be criticized less

Willy is NOT a good defender at all (lmao at that), nor is Ndor. Ndor doesn't get block or stay in front of his man and who did Lee stop or even slow down? He gave effort but, effort in itself doesn't equal good. Noah wasn't on the floor enough to even be mentioned. You keep mentioning effort....effort without actually effecting anything make that effort REDUNDANT. Guys picking on Melo while ignoring that cast have a personal agenda.

[DOT]

Bad Defenders
Jennings
Plumlee
O'Quinn
Lee
Kuz
Hermongomez
Anthony
Lee
N'Dor

Good Defeners
Holiday
Baker
Thomas

What defensive chain when you have this list of piss poor defenders. Like I said, point out Melo alone is disengenuis. The majority of the team sucked ass on the defensive end.

edit: forgot to mention Rose

OK, first, you mentioned Lee twice
Second, Lee is actually a good defender, so I have no idea what you're talking about
Third, Plumlee and NDour didn't see much time on court, and when they did, they at least gave 100% effort on both ends
Fourth, Willy is actually decent defensively
Fifth, you left Noah and KP off

So it should be
Rose, Jennings, KOQ, Kuz, Melo as bad defenders
Baker, Holiday, Lee, KP, and Noah as good defenders
Plulmee, Willy, NDour, and Thomas as not good defenders, but give effort on that end, which can't be said for any of the first 5

When people complain about Melo, it's cause he doesn't even try on defense, which is frustrating cause he has the tools and experience to at least be a positive defender. If he at least gave effort (see the 2016 season), he'd be criticized less

Willy is NOT a good defender at all (lmao at that), nor is Ndor. Ndor doesn't get block or stay in front of his man and who did Lee stop or even slow down? He gave effort but, effort in itself doesn't equal good. Noah wasn't on the floor enough to even be mentioned. You keep mentioning effort....effort without actually effecting anything make that effort REDUNDANT. Guys picking on Melo while ignoring that cast have a personal agenda.

Team DRTG: 108.7
Team DRTG with Willy: 107.6
So yes, Willy is at least an improvement on our defense. And I put Willy in the "not good, but not terrible category" anyways

And you say Noah isn't on the floor long enough to be mentioned, yet he had 3 times as many minutes played as NDour and Plumlee, and played about the same as LFT and Baker, who you thought were on the floor long enough to be mentioned. And you want to talk about cherry picking and personal agendas

Lee isn't a defensive stopper. He's not a guy you can put on someone to stop or slow down. But he is more than capable of holding his own and not being a sieve defensively. Just cause you're not elite defensively doesn't make you a scrub.

And yes, I keep mentioning effort because defense is like 60% effort. That's the difference between a Damian Lillard and a Kyle Lowry, is that Lillard is more athletic, but Lowry is the better defender because he puts in the effort while Lillard just coasts on that end. It's also why despite me wanting DSJ I was wary of him, cause while he had the ability to play defense, he never consistently tried. If Melo consistently gave effort on the defensive end, I'd give him less sh*t about it, cause at that point, there's nothing more he can do