Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 1

[jredsaz]

Any you mention we are getting dragged back into the trade name game? By who? Just by random posters on realgm?

No, im referring to the verified twitter post. James Stewart isnt a random RealGM poster, but rather a Boston area Sports reporter (along with Executive Producer of Felger and Mazz on 98.5 the Sports Hub and CBSBostonSports.com Contributor). Our name has been pretty much out of it until his reference to us today.

Now that's interesting...

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[AtheJ415]

While I certainly don't want us to trade a lot for Kyrie, it would be pretty funny if we screwed Ainge over again right after the draft.

[Kerrsed]

Any you mention we are getting dragged back into the trade name game? By who? Just by random posters on realgm?

No, im referring to the verified twitter post. James Stewart isnt a random RealGM poster, but rather a Boston area Sports reporter (along with Executive Producer of Felger and Mazz on 98.5 the Sports Hub and CBSBostonSports.com Contributor). Our name has been pretty much out of it until his reference to us today.

Now that's interesting...

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From the Boston Board:

Summary of last 40 pages pls.

What's this fantasy Phoenix chat?

James Stewart, producer on 98.5, and who LBF says has sources, suggested that PHX could be trying to tamper the deal in a tweet

He plays with action figures, but he does know people.

Guys its obvious.

Ryan McDonough is salty that Trader Danny will beat out his offer with a player he traded for a bag of peanuts. He's a slimy individual and it wouldn't surprise me If hes up to dirty tactics like he did with Josh Jackson.

Yup. This wreaks of LeDoosh and/or McDonough. Either one of them or both sabotaged this deal. I find it hard to believe Danny tried to pull a fast one on Cleveland over IT's health. They have been talking for months. That's not Danny's style imo. He's a pretty honest dude to a fault.

My .02 on the Cavs silence:

I mentioned in Kyrie to Boston Part II that I believe Ryan McDonough (PHX GM) is actively tampering with this trade:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1610132&start=400#start_here

I believe I'm 99% correct even if it's just a theory for now. Here's why the Cavs aren't saying crap: Because they're scheming. They're sitting on McDonough's offer (Josh Jackson, Bledsoe & 1st) but they know that if caught, it'd mean a world of trouble - which is why this is such a "sensitive" situation for them.

They're probably waiting for the clock to expire right now because that's their best course of action. Anything they do from now on will be heavily scrutinized, so, they'd rather not make any move than make a wrong move and draw attention to their (and Phoenix's) scam. Which means we can expect another day of nothing from the Cavs. And the trade will be voided on Thursday. They'll wait a week or two or even a month. They'll wait until they feel it's safe to make a move. Then, they'll announce that Kyrie's been traded to Phoenix for the package I mentioned above.

[AtheJ415]

Bledsoe, Jackson, AND a first is just an insane price. I think Bledsoe and Jackson alone is an overpay, but if we did it I could understand the logic (if you have faith in Warren in particular) even though I wouldn't agree with it at all. Adding a 1st on top is just absurd imo.

[lilfishi22]

That's crazy...Now that the trade is 90% done with Celtics why is Jackson all of a sudden involved in some deal for Kyrie? It was always Bledsoe, Chriss/Warren and 1st. At this point, I wouldn't even do Bledsoe and 1st (heavily protected). Kyrie seems happy in Boston (supposedly very open to resigning with BOS) and to pull him out of that situation feels like he would be annoyed at us for doing that to him.

[AtheJ415]

If Kyrie really wants to play in Phoenix, he should root for the Boston trade and then sign in PHX as an FA in 2 years. That depletes Boston's trade assets and makes it a lot more likely that he gets to play with another star here b/c we could then trade those assets for his sidekick and outbid Boston in the process.

[Qwigglez]

Would be nice if the Nets offered Len a contract. Maybe make the Cavs rethink how good that pick will even be. That team doesn't look as bad as some others in the East.

[sunskerr]

I dont want any part of this whole Kyrie saga. Pretty much forgot about him over a month ago.

[Qwigglez]

I'm done with it too, but I just enjoy the drama that is following.

[NavLDO]

I am getting tired of this. There will always be a "pie in the sky" next draft that boasts bloated promises of coming superstars. Perpetual tanking for the sake of adding teenage talent is tasteless to me. If you have to be rebuild, do so. But don't forget the "build part." Hit bottom and move up. Don't stay there.

Exactly. Why can't Jackson and Booker and Bender and Chris and Warren be our 'organic' talents and build from there? And no, I'm not suggesting that we build around those 5, I'm suggesting that you pick 3, then the other 2, plus 2 Mia draft picks, plus maybe...wait for it...one of OUR draft picks...plus Bledsoe (while he's worth something) be used, plus Ulis, Williams, soon-to-be-brought-in Len on a QO (most likely, right?), plus a veteran--whoever makes more sense to the other team, Chandler or Dudley, jumble it all together, and get two players to add to the 3 we are going to commit to, and call it a day. That's 10 potential 'pieces' (7 players, 3 picks)

I'll spare everyone all the scenarios and evidence again, but we have PLENTY of pieces to make something happen, by the trade deadline in February, is it? At this point, that's what I'm shooting for. Wait for a few teams that are ready to blow it up and commit to Tank, and relieve them of their 'star'.

[King4Day]

Bledsoe, Jackson, AND a first is just an insane price. I think Bledsoe and Jackson alone is an overpay, but if we did it I could understand the logic (if you have faith in Warren in particular) even though I wouldn't agree with it at all. Adding a 1st on top is just absurd imo.

Yea that's silly. If Cleveland had that offer on the table, they probably would have already voided the Boston deal. That's a superior offer compared to an injured PG and an unknown pick.

I do think the silence has to do with us though. I think our offer of Bledsoe, Bender or Chriss, and our 2018 first (unprotected) would be enough to get it done. Does MCD want to give up that pick though?

I hope we stay out of it while Boston has to give up their own late first rounder.

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

Going back and fourth on Bledsoe. If we keep him we win more games and probably drop our draft pick to the 4-8 range. BUT we have an opportunity to grab Cousins in free agency. Cousins want to play with Bledsoe. I think he is as good as ours so long as the Pels don't make a playoff run.

Bad news is that we would have to enter another negotiation with Rich Paul and the scorched earth Klutch Sports. He will hold us over a barrel knowing that Cousins wants Bled and we would want to keep Cousins happy. We don't get a Kyle Lowery deal, 3/$100. We will get raked over the coals. But we will have a much better team for it.

Trading Bledsoe in a Thomas or something similar I think guarantees us a bottom 3 record. Porter and Bagley look like franchise players. That's pretty enticing. We don't win for another two to three seasons but when we do it's organic and we should be able to sustain it longer given decent health and good decisions in the draft.

Anyway. I am torn. Don't know which way I want to go.

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Better isn't always best. Best is adding another top talent in the draft, no question. I agree that trading Bled would probably lose us more games, but losing more games doesn't necessarily mean you get a better pick, and getting a better pick doesn't necessarily mean you get a better player... Bled is of sufficient quality and our assets sufficiently diversified that I would not feel any pressure to sell quickly or to sell low. Besides, our best player at the 4/5 is currently Alan Williams. When I compare that to the rest of the western conference, I don't imagine we're in danger of falling out of the lottery.

This year is all about Josh Jackson. That's the jersey I'll buy, the player I'll buy the expensive seats to see. I won't be at all shocked if he and Booker lead the team in minutes this season. I won't be shocked, furthermore, if those two are able to keep us out of the cellar this season... but if that's the case, one can't help but admit that that would be the best imaginable reason not to land near the top of the lottery.

So I'm not so torn. I'm cool with how things stand.

Cosmo, man, I'm not saying JJ won't light it up, but I hope you have a plan B for both your future, and your emotions. Just a couple of short years ago, a great 2-way SF, with a more-ready NBA body, and better shooting mechanics (and FT% results, which ARE actually important in the evaluation of talent), was drafted 8th in a 'stronger' draft class than JJ, blew-up the SL like Jackson, and has been largely a disappointment on offense.

JJ has done diddly squat in the NBA, and while we are all excited and hope he comes in strong, I'm not holding my breath. At this point, it's a 50/50 proposition. So don't come back in 6 months and say I was wrong, because I'm not foretelling gloom-and-doom; I'm just saying that you appear to feel that JJ can't fail, and I'm just cautioning you that players have looked great in college, looked great in their 1st SL, only to look very average upon entrance into the league, and Stanley Johnson is just one of them.

And this isn't about "well, JJ did this better than Stanimal, so that proves blah, blah, blah..." because it doesn't. Nothing will prove his success except his success, itself. That's all I'm saying, and why I wasn't so dead-set on trading him away for Kyrie; at least Kyrie, we know what we are getting, and it is of my OPINION, not fact, that I believe he would have drawn in talent, especially after seeing what he, Booker, and Warren may have been able to do on offense this season.

Anyway, I'm rooting for you (and JJ, of course), but just worry that he might struggle a little bit, at first, and if that's the case, he may not get a lot of minutes.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Spoiler:

Going back and fourth on Bledsoe. If we keep him we win more games and probably drop our draft pick to the 4-8 range. BUT we have an opportunity to grab Cousins in free agency. Cousins want to play with Bledsoe. I think he is as good as ours so long as the Pels don't make a playoff run.

Bad news is that we would have to enter another negotiation with Rich Paul and the scorched earth Klutch Sports. He will hold us over a barrel knowing that Cousins wants Bled and we would want to keep Cousins happy. We don't get a Kyle Lowery deal, 3/$100. We will get raked over the coals. But we will have a much better team for it.

Trading Bledsoe in a Thomas or something similar I think guarantees us a bottom 3 record. Porter and Bagley look like franchise players. That's pretty enticing. We don't win for another two to three seasons but when we do it's organic and we should be able to sustain it longer given decent health and good decisions in the draft.

Anyway. I am torn. Don't know which way I want to go.

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Better isn't always best. Best is adding another top talent in the draft, no question. I agree that trading Bled would probably lose us more games, but losing more games doesn't necessarily mean you get a better pick, and getting a better pick doesn't necessarily mean you get a better player... Bled is of sufficient quality and our assets sufficiently diversified that I would not feel any pressure to sell quickly or to sell low. Besides, our best player at the 4/5 is currently Alan Williams. When I compare that to the rest of the western conference, I don't imagine we're in danger of falling out of the lottery.

This year is all about Josh Jackson. That's the jersey I'll buy, the player I'll buy the expensive seats to see. I won't be at all shocked if he and Booker lead the team in minutes this season. I won't be shocked, furthermore, if those two are able to keep us out of the cellar this season... but if that's the case, one can't help but admit that that would be the best imaginable reason not to land near the top of the lottery.

So I'm not so torn. I'm cool with how things stand.

Cosmo, man, I'm not saying JJ won't light it up, but I hope you have a plan B for both your future, and your emotions. Just a couple of short years ago, a great 2-way SF, with a more-ready NBA body, and better shooting mechanics (and FT% results, which ARE actually important in the evaluation of talent), was drafted 8th in a 'stronger' draft class than JJ, blew-up the SL like Jackson, and has been largely a disappointment on offense.

JJ has done diddly squat in the NBA, and while we are all excited and hope he comes in strong, I'm not holding my breath. At this point, it's a 50/50 proposition. So don;t come back in 6 months and say I was wrong, because I'm not foretelling gloom-and-doom; I'm just saying that you appear to feel that JJ can't fail, and I'm just cautioning you that players have looked great in college, looked great in their 1st SL, only to look very average upon entrance into the league, and Stanley Johnson is just one of them.

And this isn't about "well, JJ did this better than Stanimal, so that proves blah, blah, blah..." because it doesn't. Nothing will prove his success except his success, itself. That's all I'm saying, and why I wasn't so dead-set on trading him away for Kyrie; at least Kyrie, we know what we are getting, and it is of my OPINION, not fact, that I believe he would have drawn in talent, especially after seeing what he, Booker, and Warren may have been able to do on offense this season.

Anyway, I'm rooting for you (and JJ, of course), but just worry that he might struggle a little bit, at first, and if that's the case, he may not get a lot of minutes.

I get what you're saying here about optimism. It's just that grabbing guys like Irving and Cousins are only a "Plan B" to the extent that your Plan B does not involve winning a championship. If JJ is a bust, once again, the smart move would be to stay the course. We're not up against any real deadline here - the only meaningful one is Booker's eventual UFA.

[Frank Lee]

With Jackson, we at least know were are getting him for 4 years.... with Irving ??? not so much.

Who do you see taking away minutes from JJ? We are thin at the wings. I see 25mins + a night....every night, as he is clearly our best alternate. Struggle or not... he's playing.

[Frank Lee]

Getting Cousins is not in the same 'plan' as Irving. Not even the same planet.

We have to give up significant pieces for Kyrie.... where as we are just 'buying' DMC. And BS on the DMC can't win a championship notion. Clearly biased disliking for the baddest big man out there.

[jredsaz]

Spoiler:

Better isn't always best. Best is adding another top talent in the draft, no question. I agree that trading Bled would probably lose us more games, but losing more games doesn't necessarily mean you get a better pick, and getting a better pick doesn't necessarily mean you get a better player... Bled is of sufficient quality and our assets sufficiently diversified that I would not feel any pressure to sell quickly or to sell low. Besides, our best player at the 4/5 is currently Alan Williams. When I compare that to the rest of the western conference, I don't imagine we're in danger of falling out of the lottery.

This year is all about Josh Jackson. That's the jersey I'll buy, the player I'll buy the expensive seats to see. I won't be at all shocked if he and Booker lead the team in minutes this season. I won't be shocked, furthermore, if those two are able to keep us out of the cellar this season... but if that's the case, one can't help but admit that that would be the best imaginable reason not to land near the top of the lottery.

So I'm not so torn. I'm cool with how things stand.

Cosmo, man, I'm not saying JJ won't light it up, but I hope you have a plan B for both your future, and your emotions. Just a couple of short years ago, a great 2-way SF, with a more-ready NBA body, and better shooting mechanics (and FT% results, which ARE actually important in the evaluation of talent), was drafted 8th in a 'stronger' draft class than JJ, blew-up the SL like Jackson, and has been largely a disappointment on offense.

JJ has done diddly squat in the NBA, and while we are all excited and hope he comes in strong, I'm not holding my breath. At this point, it's a 50/50 proposition. So don;t come back in 6 months and say I was wrong, because I'm not foretelling gloom-and-doom; I'm just saying that you appear to feel that JJ can't fail, and I'm just cautioning you that players have looked great in college, looked great in their 1st SL, only to look very average upon entrance into the league, and Stanley Johnson is just one of them.

And this isn't about "well, JJ did this better than Stanimal, so that proves blah, blah, blah..." because it doesn't. Nothing will prove his success except his success, itself. That's all I'm saying, and why I wasn't so dead-set on trading him away for Kyrie; at least Kyrie, we know what we are getting, and it is of my OPINION, not fact, that I believe he would have drawn in talent, especially after seeing what he, Booker, and Warren may have been able to do on offense this season.

Anyway, I'm rooting for you (and JJ, of course), but just worry that he might struggle a little bit, at first, and if that's the case, he may not get a lot of minutes.

I get what you're saying here about optimism. It's just that grabbing guys like Irving and Cousins are only a "Plan B" to the extent that your Plan B does not involve winning a championship. If JJ is a bust, once again, the smart move would be to stay the course. We're not up against any real deadline here - the only meaningful one is Booker's eventual UFA.

Well, I would like to win again before I die. #timetable

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[kennydorglas]

LOL Bucks almost got Kyrie for Brogdon/Middleton/1st
We definitely dont need to add Jackson or even our 18' pick lol

Dont bid against yourself, McD.

[NavLDO]

Going back and fourth on Bledsoe. If we keep him we win more games and probably drop our draft pick to the 4-8 range. BUT we have an opportunity to grab Cousins in free agency. Cousins want to play with Bledsoe. I think he is as good as ours so long as the Pels don't make a playoff run.

Bad news is that we would have to enter another negotiation with Rich Paul and the scorched earth Klutch Sports. He will hold us over a barrel knowing that Cousins wants Bled and we would want to keep Cousins happy. We don't get a Kyle Lowery deal, 3/$100. We will get raked over the coals. But we will have a much better team for it.

Trading Bledsoe in a Thomas or something similar I think guarantees us a bottom 3 record. Porter and Bagley look like franchise players. That's pretty enticing. We don't win for another two to three seasons but when we do it's organic and we should be able to sustain it longer given decent health and good decisions in the draft.

Anyway. I am torn. Don't know which way I want to go.

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I keep reading if we keep Bledsoe we're front runners for Cousins. I know these two are friends but for Boogie to leave a better team next year and leave millions on the table just to play ball with his college buddy who might leave within a year is ludacris.

I like Boogie and did root for him to be treated here last year but with no Kyrie or any other star power he wont come. Booker would have be a monster next year and make the allstar team for him to come here.

I agree. IMO, if we want Boogie to come here, we'll need some 'star' power to attract him. Bledsoe + Booker likely will not be enough. HOWEVER, IMO, our best chance to perform well with Bledsoe and Booker would be to bring back Len and start him, start Warren and Chriss, as well.

Bledsoe-Booker-Warren-Chriss-Len

Then, run a 9-man rotation, mostly, with Ulis-JJ-Bender-Sauce, and hope no one gets injured. This idea of starting different combinations all the time isn't going to work; commit to this line-up, save Dudley, BK and Chandler for a contender that could use them at the trade deadline, and we'll take on picks, BUT contracts that total LESS than what we trade away.

The thought being this. Booker, Warren, Chriss, Ulis, Bender, and especially Len, improve (which again, I've clamored for, forever with Len; commit to him as a starter for a season and let's see what we REALLY have) Anyway, I don't think it's out of the realm of the imagination to project that the young players will improve, plus, hope like heck that JJ is the real thing.

If we improve just 8-10 games, but more importantly, show that Bledsoe + Booker + (TJ??, JJ??, Chriss??, Bender??) is a rising star, that might be enough for Boogie to come over if he sees a young, talented team on the rise. Plus, and I think this is key; which ever of the above 4 show 'stardom', and surely ONE will, and the other 3 will likely at least show 'value', we commit to that one, then we look for a trade with the other 3 + Picks to bring in one more star, so for argument sake, let's just pretend it's TJ, since he's the closest. Since Chriss, Bender, and JJ are all still young, be willing to package any and all + Picks for another star, let's pretend it's Giannis (I know, yeah right, but maybe they bite with Bender, Chriss, JJ + Picks)

Then we go to Boogie and say hey, we've got:

Bledsoe-Booker-Giannis-Warren...all we need is our star Center...

Anyway, even without the trade, if we just improve, and commit, and let Boogie know that we will go after a 'star' FA if the '18 draft selection doesn't workout...I think we can sway him to Phoenix. But if we keep half-a$$ing our commitment to a roster, and keep switching rosters, players, etc., then sure, we'll be down in the 20s again for wins.

[Fo-Real]

I dont want Phx to be in this mess (as I have mentioned several times), but if we have been swept back into the running I believe its because possibly we have softened on the stance of our own first round pick next year being included or the protection. Josh still would not be involved.

[jredsaz]

I dont want Phx to be in this mess (as I have mentioned several times), but if we have been swept back into the running I believe its because possibly we have softened on the stance of our own first round pick next year being included or the protection. Josh still would not be involved.

I feel the same way. Again, something like Bledsoe, Dudley, and Suns 2018 1st is an equivelant package at this point given Thomas may not play next season.

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